13th Age - It's D&D with Modern Mechanics, True Ways and Moar Owlbears

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Ratpick: Oct 9, 2012; And no one ate dinner that night.

Covok posted:

Hey mate, sorry about not seeing this earlier. I hope this isn't too late.

So, first off, I used one of the standard arrays from appendix B (they were computed with standard point-buy rules). The one I used was 16, 14, 14, 12, 10, 8. There was a reason for this. Your key modifiers for a necromancer/Paladin, or Death Knight as I like to call it, are Strength and Intelligence. Since the point of this build was to be a tanky summoner, I needed good constitution and, as such, wanted CON to be reasonably high. So, I put 16 in CON, 14 in Str + Int, 12 in Dex, 10 in Cha, and 8 in Wis. Now, there is a choice here. I choose to put my 12 in Dex to increase my AC by 1 as I wanted to be a little hardier in close quarters (19 AC vs 18 AC), but you can put it into Charisma if you want an additional daily use of Smite Evil to increase damage output.

For a race, I went with Half-Orc so I can put a +2 in Str, from race, and +2 in Int, from the class (specifically, necromancer). Thus, I had a 16 in Str and Int. I could have flipped it and got a different racial power, but I felt re-rolling an attack per encounter is useful as my attack bonus is a little lower than normal (+4 vs +5).

Next off, forget about Necromancer attack spells. Positive CON is a penalty to Necromancer attack spells. If you want to be a Necromancer/Paladin, you need to focus on summons and forms as they take no penalties from positive CON. As summons are dailes, I took Cackling Soliquist to increase my chance of getting them back. As I knew I would need my Death Knight, if I was going to summon, to stay nearby before moving forward (there are, unfortunately, no ways to negate the oppatk at close range for this combo), I took a Skeletal Minion to allow me to attack on a turn I choose to summon. Lastly, to go further with my idea of being hardy, I took Bastion to increase my AC by 1 and allow me to be a bit defender-y.

For spells, I was in a bit of an annoyance, you get more Necro spells than you have Summon and Form spells available at that level. As such, I'd have one unnecessary Atk spells. Unholy Burst, atleast, was a decent choice as, even on a miss (which is likely), I get to attack two different targets for half damage. For my other two spells, I was able to keep to my original intent and choice Zombie Form (which makes me tankier) and Summon Undead (which increases my attacks per round).

As my attack bonus is a little low and, until higher levels when I get more summons and form spells, I'll be relying on basic melee more, I put my adventurer feat in Smite Evil to give it a better chance to hit.

I then focused my feats on increasing my minions chance to hit. My spell list got a little cluttered with spells I didn't really need until 4th level when I got more summons and forms. This is why I said earlier that this build really hits its stride then. Be sure to take champion in cacklking soliquist, by the way, as turning every daily into a recharge 16+ is good for this build. As it was only a back-up for a level 4 character, I haven't planned the build out any farther, but it should only get better at its role over time.

Here is the character from level 1 to 4:
Level 1
Level 2
Level 3
Level 4

This is actually kind of genius. Not only do you get to skirt around the Necromancer being limited by high Con, since you're relying on spells that don't have attack rolls you can easily ignore the penalties for wearing heavy armor. There's also a lot of unexpected synergies: Negative Energy Shield combined with Paladin's Challenge puts the target in a situation where they'll either have to suck up a pretty major to-hit penalty or to risk taking damage while fighting you. I might have to give this a shot if I ever find someone willing to run 13th Age.

# ? Feb 12, 2015 23:51

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 10:37

Covok: May 27, 2013; Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Ratpick posted:

This is actually kind of genius. Not only do you get to skirt around the Necromancer being limited by high Con, since you're relying on spells that don't have attack rolls you can easily ignore the penalties for wearing heavy armor. There's also a lot of unexpected synergies: Negative Energy Shield combined with Paladin's Challenge puts the target in a situation where they'll either have to suck up a pretty major to-hit penalty or to risk taking damage while fighting you. I might have to give this a shot if I ever find someone willing to run 13th Age.

Well, I feel the need to say the original idea was either Raenir K. Artemi's idea or Jordan Prokosh's idea then I did the execution. But, yeah, negative energy shield is another good spell to get when you hit level 5. If I had room for it, I would have taken it earlier. Didn't think of the Paladin Challenge synergy, but that is a great idea! You are right: you force them to suck up damage or miss.

Covok fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Feb 13, 2015

# ? Feb 12, 2015 23:56

Jolyne Cujoh: Dec 7, 2012; It's not like I've got no worries...
But I'll be fine.

Hello I made a dumbass pet build that I am super proud of for some reason and would like to share. This is Two Dogs Steve

General notes:

He is basically entirely about survivability and being able to keep himself alive while pets and summons do his work for him.
At level ten he has 4 different summon spells, double ranged attack and a good encounter power and daily, plus two super fuckin' beefy companions.
The level 10 build does require you to have a lenient GM who lets you shuffle around talents and stats (and feats) at a level up to get the most out of your companions
Actually has 0 dogs
Ranged PD attacks could be killer, but those tend to be AoE and therefore slightly less deadly
The only reason I'd shy away from Cackling's epic feat is because with 20 dex you're gonna be ahead of your buddies pretty often and I'm a team player who doesn't like screwing my buddies
Ranger is actually super good as a multiclass guys

Unrelated, but I rebuilt a character that I had as a defender as a juggernaut and realized that Psych Out is, like, way better than any of the other dirty fighting techniques. It targets MD, generally the lowest defense, and inflicts Hampered, the third worst condition. As it is, any Juggernaut who doesn't use their feat to make that one their rage builder is essentially crippling themselves.

Jolyne Cujoh fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Feb 13, 2015

# ? Feb 13, 2015 05:58

Ryuujin: Sep 26, 2007; Dragon God

Earthorn posted:

*Assassin, Brute, Destined, Seelie Knight, Wyrmkin and a couple others are almost ready to go. The "scene-stealing" discussion of the Stalwart I created gave me pause, but in the end I don't really see the point of creating a new game element (like a class) that does what other classes can already do, as long as the overall utility/power of that new element is not out of line with existing ones.

Been looking back through your posts to see if there was any comment on changes to the Nemesis, and saw this. Any word on these other classes? Did one of them turn into the Nemesis? Real curious about Brute and Wyrmkin.

Earthorn posted:

Hello, all

I have not been completely idle since designing the Stalwart:

The Nemesis - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FIpk-bh6TRlnY3NAx15mCXUpmD-ovC9nrAjTRnpMLHg/edit?usp=sharing

This is a WIP, so feedback is appreciated, as is discretion re: sharing.

I hope to have a few other classes up for review shortly.

So glancing through this again it looks like you changed Blurred Nemesis to one talent? Any other changes made? Or should I just look through the whole thing again and try and figure out any changes?

While I am asking you questions, on the Gladiator, if they take Enduring twice can they take the feats for Enduring twice? Or still only once? Since one of the feats has a choice of two options. Though if they can take the feats twice that would be a lot of Recoveries.

Also everyone has there been any updates to 13th Glorantha? Or is it still just the 1st level pregens that I will probably never get the chance to try out?

Ryuujin fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Feb 13, 2015

# ? Feb 13, 2015 06:32

PublicOpinion: Oct 21, 2010; Her style is new but the face is the same as it was so long ago...

Ryuujin posted:

Also everyone has there been any updates to 13th Glorantha? Or is it still just the 1st level pregens that I will probably never get the chance to try out?

Just general progress update that things are progressing, plugging the other kickstarter, and mentioning that they've got a different way of playing the monk (which could mean many things).

# ? Feb 13, 2015 06:51

Ryuujin: Sep 26, 2007; Dragon God

So nothing new to download. What I saw of the new options looked interesting, but just pregens. Wonder how long before we get to playtest more of the classes, and what I am really looking forward to is the Troll options, that involve being the weakest/weaker kind of troll, then when leveling up getting eaten by progressively stronger type of trolls that you then get to play. Or at least I could have sworn they were talking about that being an option, and I believe the troll stuff tier was reached.

# ? Feb 13, 2015 07:50

Earthorn: Jul 18, 2012

Ryuujin posted:

Been looking back through your posts to see if there was any comment on changes to the Nemesis, and saw this. Any word on these other classes? Did one of them turn into the Nemesis? Real curious about Brute and Wyrmkin.

First, thanks for your interest and input!

Brute and Wyrmkin had a lot of their bits absorbed by Nemesis, with the bulk of the remnants coalescing into another class I've been spending a lot of time on lately, and into a couple racial talents that are also in the pipeline.

Assassin wasn't really doing much the Rogue couldn't do already ("Hmm... this assassinate-outta-nowhere feature is a lot like an Improved Sneak Attack plus Shadow Walk") and I probably won't return to it. I think it's a testament to the designers that the Rogue class came with so many fun possibilities.

Destined may yet see the light of day. It just need to fins a comfortable space between Commander, Jester, and Occultist.

Seelie knight was mostly just me halfheartedly porting Swordmage/Battlemind stuff from 4E. I think many others have done a more impassioned and considered job of this.

Ryuujin posted:

So glancing through this again it looks like you changed Blurred Nemesis to one talent? Any other changes made? Or should I just look through the whole thing again and try and figure out any changes?

Sorry about not calling out a pretty significant change to one build for the Gladiator. There just wasn't a lot of interest expressed for these two classes on here, so I didn't want to clutter things up with micro-updates.
As far as I remember, other changes are just editing for clarity, formatting, and grammar.

Ryuujin posted:

While I am asking you questions, on the Gladiator, if they take Enduring twice can they take the feats for Enduring twice? Or still only once? Since one of the feats has a choice of two options. Though if they can take the feats twice that would be a lot of Recoveries.

Yep, you can take the feats both times you take the talent. Spending two adventurer feats and two epic feats gives you 14 recoveries before magic items. A fighter spending an adventurer feat and a champion has 12 recoveries, so this seems about right.

# ? Feb 13, 2015 15:20

mdct: Sep 2, 2011; Tingle tingle kooloo limpah.
These are my magic words.
Don't steal them.

Hey, -Fish-, is that playtest still on for tonight?

# ? Feb 13, 2015 20:09

Shoombo: Jan 1, 2013

I run an online thing on Friday nights with a few other goons, and we were going to run through 13th Age in Glorantha tonight. A few people can't make it, so I guess I'm looking for about two more people. If you want in, email me at yoink with your skype details. We'll be playing over roll20 around 7:00.

Shoombo fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Feb 14, 2015

# ? Feb 13, 2015 20:12

-Fish-: Oct 10, 2005; Glub glub.
Glub glub.

Mighty Dicktron posted:

Hey, -Fish-, is that playtest still on for tonight?

I had completely forgotten that, so yeah it's still on. I'll send out an email at 4:00pm est

# ? Feb 13, 2015 20:30

Doublehex: Jan 29, 2009; Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'

-Fish- posted:

I had completely forgotten that, so yeah it's still on. I'll send out an email at 4:00pm est

I had also completely forgot, and won't be able to attend due to family stuff.

# ? Feb 13, 2015 20:41

Covok: May 27, 2013; Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Got a question for the monk. If you have Spinning Willow style and a resistance and the natural result of the attack is under your resistance and you make your spinning willow save, do you only take a quarter damage? (1/2 damage b/c of resistance then 1/2 damage again b/c you passed your spinning willow save).

# ? Feb 13, 2015 21:57

unseenlibrarian: Jun 4, 2012; There's only one thing in the mountains that leaves a track like this. The creature of legend that roams the Timberline. My people named him Sasquatch. You call him... Bigfoot.

PublicOpinion posted:

Just general progress update that things are progressing, plugging the other kickstarter, and mentioning that they've got a different way of playing the monk (which could mean many things).

Especially since the Trickster is apparently supposed to be 'a variant of the chaos mage' and look at what a magnificent bumbling motherfucker it turned out to be.

# ? Feb 13, 2015 22:24

Myrmidongs: Oct 26, 2010

unseenlibrarian posted:

Especially since the Trickster is apparently supposed to be 'a variant of the chaos mage' and look at what a magnificent bumbling motherfucker it turned out to be.

I dunno, it came off less as a mage and more of "rear end in a top hat Bard" to me.

# ? Feb 13, 2015 22:31

Solomonic: Jan 3, 2008; INCIPIT SANTA

Is there a good bullshit excuse for how an entirely metal forgeborn attunes a chuulish weapon? I'm not gonna not let him do it, I just figure I should put some effort into how that works rather than resorting to 'try not to think too much about it'.

# ? Feb 13, 2015 22:58

unseenlibrarian: Jun 4, 2012; There's only one thing in the mountains that leaves a track like this. The creature of legend that roams the Timberline. My people named him Sasquatch. You call him... Bigfoot.

Solomonic posted:

Is there a good bullshit excuse for how an entirely metal forgeborn attunes a chuulish weapon? I'm not gonna not let him do it, I just figure I should put some effort into how that works rather than resorting to 'try not to think too much about it'.

Ever hear of the Rigs to Reefs project? Where they turn abandoned oil platforms into artificial reefs as habitats for sea life. Coral and various other sea life sort of naturally grows around the metal, slowly covering it up. Maybe even once they've unattuned the weapon, that part of their body stays creepy chitinous stuff, because it's actually rusted the metal away and replaced it with more of itself.

Alternately, maybe whatever mysterious process that brought the forgeborn to life makes the metal of their bodies partially alive, and a close examination of chuulish gear suggests something similar happened to it, years and years ago. So they're perfectly compatible. Maybe -too- compatible.

# ? Feb 13, 2015 23:11

Serf: May 5, 2011

Solomonic posted:

Is there a good bullshit excuse for how an entirely metal forgeborn attunes a chuulish weapon? I'm not gonna not let him do it, I just figure I should put some effort into how that works rather than resorting to 'try not to think too much about it'.

I'm picturing a reverse Tetsuo the Iron Man deal here and it's pretty interesting. While I'm always a fan of the "I don't have to explain it" thing, I thought about this: the chuulish weapon bonds to the forgeborn, and slowly begins to turn to metal. Just for an added dose of weirdness.

# ? Feb 14, 2015 19:54

Captain Walker: Apr 7, 2009; Mother knows best
Listen to your mother
It's a scary world out there

After going through several iterations as the Battlemind and Hexblade, my next class is now just a straight-up Warlock. Planning more powerful control spells that don't do damage, and having them work in tandem with melee attacks. It's much more WIP than even the Seeker was at this point so I welcome criticism.

Also, I need a good one-word name for a class feature I want to add that works like momentum or greatness. You'd gain it when an attack misses you and lose it when you miss with an attack. Thoughts?

Captain Walker fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Feb 14, 2015

# ? Feb 14, 2015 22:48

djw175: Apr 23, 2012; by zen death robot

Captain Walker posted:

After going through several iterations as the Battlemind and Hexblade, my next class is now just a straight-up Warlock. Planning more powerful control spells that don't do damage, and having them work in tandem with melee attacks. It's much more WIP than even the Seeker was at this point so I welcome criticism.

Also, I need a good one-word name for a class feature I want to add that works like momentum or greatness. You'd gain it when an attack misses you and lose it when you miss with an attack. Thoughts?

I can't really talk about mechanics, but warlock probably isn't a good name for it considering there's like 2 other warlocks currently on the vault. There's also a binder which is basically a warlock. We are drowning in warlocks.

# ? Feb 14, 2015 22:56

-Fish-: Oct 10, 2005; Glub glub.
Glub glub.

Go with Witchalok instead.

# ? Feb 14, 2015 22:56

Captain Walker: Apr 7, 2009; Mother knows best
Listen to your mother
It's a scary world out there

djw175 posted:

I can't really talk about mechanics, but warlock probably isn't a good name for it considering there's like 2 other warlocks currently on the vault. There's also a binder which is basically a warlock. We are drowning in warlocks.

Mechanics I can do. Flavorful names... :eng99:

# ? Feb 14, 2015 23:00

Rohan Kishibe: Oct 29, 2011; Frankly, I don't like you
and I never have.

Captain Walker posted:

After going through several iterations as the Battlemind and Hexblade, my next class is now just a straight-up Warlock. Planning more powerful control spells that don't do damage, and having them work in tandem with melee attacks. It's much more WIP than even the Seeker was at this point so I welcome criticism.

Also, I need a good one-word name for a class feature I want to add that works like momentum or greatness. You'd gain it when an attack misses you and lose it when you miss with an attack. Thoughts?

Mojo?

# ? Feb 14, 2015 23:02

My Lovely Horse: Aug 21, 2010

Captain Walker posted:

Also, I need a good one-word name for a class feature I want to add that works like momentum or greatness. You'd gain it when an attack misses you and lose it when you miss with an attack. Thoughts?

Sounds like bravado. You dodge and/or withstand everything your enemies throw at you and taunt their bad aim or weak spirit. Then you miss the massive, barn-sized siege engine and now all the orcs laugh at you.

Maybe it doesn't exactly scream "warlock."

# ? Feb 14, 2015 23:03

djw175: Apr 23, 2012; by zen death robot

My Lovely Horse posted:

Sounds like bravado. You dodge and/or withstand everything your enemies throw at you and taunt their bad aim or weak spirit. Then you miss the massive, barn-sized siege engine and now all the orcs laugh at you.

Maybe it doesn't exactly scream "warlock."

Just build a smug rear end in a top hat class.

# ? Feb 14, 2015 23:04

Rohan Kishibe: Oct 29, 2011; Frankly, I don't like you
and I never have.

Call it "the Aizen".

# ? Feb 14, 2015 23:11

-Fish-: Oct 10, 2005; Glub glub.
Glub glub.

Captain Walker posted:

After going through several iterations as the Battlemind and Hexblade, my next class is now just a straight-up Warlock. Planning more powerful control spells that don't do damage, and having them work in tandem with melee attacks. It's much more WIP than even the Seeker was at this point so I welcome criticism.

Also, I need a good one-word name for a class feature I want to add that works like momentum or greatness. You'd gain it when an attack misses you and lose it when you miss with an attack. Thoughts?

I'm gonna rip off Rivers of, London and say go with Vestigium.

# ? Feb 14, 2015 23:15

My Lovely Horse: Aug 21, 2010

For a more distinctly magic term, how about gnosis? It's a term for a state of meditation or deep focus on your goal. Attack misses you, obviously it's safe enough to go into gnosis (or you already were in it enough to be able to just put the attack aside). You still miss? You weren't in gnosis deep enough after all!

Although you might as well use trance to avoid having to explain esoteric terminology.

e: vvv well in that case :v:

My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Feb 14, 2015

# ? Feb 14, 2015 23:22

Captain Walker: Apr 7, 2009; Mother knows best
Listen to your mother
It's a scary world out there

djw175 posted:

Just build a smug rear end in a top hat class.

This is what I was really intending all along actually

e: maybe Bravo?

Captain Walker fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Feb 14, 2015

# ? Feb 14, 2015 23:22

A FESTIVE SKELETON: Oct 2, 2011; TIS THE SEASON BITCH

Captain Walker posted:

After going through several iterations as the Battlemind and Hexblade, my next class is now just a straight-up Warlock. Planning more powerful control spells that don't do damage, and having them work in tandem with melee attacks. It's much more WIP than even the Seeker was at this point so I welcome criticism.

Also, I need a good one-word name for a class feature I want to add that works like momentum or greatness. You'd gain it when an attack misses you and lose it when you miss with an attack. Thoughts?

Vis?

# ? Feb 14, 2015 23:56

HidaO-Win: Jun 5, 2013; "And I did it, because I was a man who had exhausted reason and thus turned to magicks"

Captain Walker posted:

Also, I need a good one-word name for a class feature I want to add that works like momentum or greatness. You'd gain it when an attack misses you and lose it when you miss with an attack. Thoughts?

Advantage?
Savoir-faire?

# ? Feb 15, 2015 00:00

PublicOpinion: Oct 21, 2010; Her style is new but the face is the same as it was so long ago...

"Je ne sais quoi".

# ? Feb 15, 2015 00:03

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

"Arrogance."

Seriously, why not go all in? Be the badass, mocking heel you secretly wish you could be. Strut that poo poo.

# ? Feb 15, 2015 00:09

Jolyne Cujoh: Dec 7, 2012; It's not like I've got no worries...
But I'll be fine.

It should be called Hubris obvs

# ? Feb 15, 2015 00:11

-Fish-: Oct 10, 2005; Glub glub.
Glub glub.

Night10194 posted:

"Arrogance."

Seriously, why not go all in? Be the badass, mocking heel you secretly wish you could be. Strut that poo poo.

My vote goes for this one.

# ? Feb 15, 2015 00:16

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Raenir K. Artemi posted:

It should be called Hubris obvs

This is better than mine.

# ? Feb 15, 2015 00:27

Roach Warehouse: Nov 1, 2010

My friends and I just wrapped up the Elf Queen's enchantment, and jesus, what a sweet bossfight that was. Due to an absence there were only three of us, and the General managed to down two of us on her first turn. If it weren't for a couple of lucky critical hits we never would have made it.
Hecka keen to get started on the other two related adventures with new characters.

e: my 2 cents re: Walker's new class, the Egomancer builds hubris.

Roach Warehouse fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Feb 15, 2015

# ? Feb 15, 2015 04:25

My Lovely Horse: Aug 21, 2010

Raenir K. Artemi posted:

It should be called Hubris obvs

Was honestly my first thought.

e: cockiness

My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 13:01 on Feb 15, 2015

# ? Feb 15, 2015 08:53

NinjaDebugger: Apr 22, 2008

My Lovely Horse posted:

Was honestly my first thought.

e: cockiness

Steal from Shin Megami Tensei, call it Smirk.

# ? Feb 15, 2015 15:06

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Having played a cocky bastard who delighted in dancing around opponents and mocking them in other RPGs, the smirking controller warrior is a super fun way to play RPGs and I wholeheartedly support anything that can do it.

# ? Feb 15, 2015 15:08

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 10:37

Captain Walker: Apr 7, 2009; Mother knows best
Listen to your mother
It's a scary world out there

Night10194 posted:

Having played a cocky bastard who delighted in dancing around opponents and mocking them in other RPGs, the smirking controller warrior is a super fun way to play RPGs and I wholeheartedly support anything that can do it.

I was trying to make an explicitly magical warrior because ~D20 tradition~ but gently caress it. Class is called Bravo, class feature is called Smirk. I'm sure I'm stepping on someone's toes with this design space, so if there's a Duelist or whatever already let me know and I can ~~steal mercilessly the good bits of your design~~ collaborate with you.

# ? Feb 15, 2015 15:38

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