There is only one thing that matters and it is Jesus Christ

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Pththya-lyi: Nov 8, 2009; THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

Kyrie eleison posted:

The placebos people take can certainly have an effect, so long as one believes in them, but the real cure for these problems is always going to be spiritual reflection, sacrifice, confession, almsgiving, and prayer.

1) Therapy for mental problems can involve medication, but doesn't have to. Talking therapy is a common treatment, and can supplant or even replace a drug regimen.
2) Antidepressants adjust the production of chemicals in the brain, which can lead to more normal moods. They're not placebos.
3) You're making a hasty generalization. Just because these things cheer you up doesn't mean they cheer everyone up. For instance, I can't imagine an atheist would get a lot out of prayer!

Pththya-lyi fucked around with this message at 09:52 on Feb 13, 2015

# ? Feb 13, 2015 09:48

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 20:45

Who What Now: Sep 10, 2006; by Azathoth

Kyrie eleison posted:

Your peers are fickle, their opinion comes and goes. In Job, and throughout the Psalms, we are reminded of the fragile nature of loyalty. Who puts their trust into the judgment of another person? Or an amorphous Other. Someone who will turn on you in the moment of truth. It is true, a good friend is better than gold, and to be cherished. But my peers -- woe to anyone who determines his value by his peers! For he is clay to be molded by them and used for foolish purposes. They all mold one another, so anxious are they to please, into something arbitrary and ridiculous. No; stick with God and do not worry about your peers. Love your peers, and do not offend them, and be friendly to them, yes. But do not concern yourself with their judgment, which is irrelevant. Concern yourself with the judgment of God.

This is super bad advice, FYI, and no one should or even could follow it.

# ? Feb 13, 2015 10:05

America Inc.: Nov 22, 2013; I plan to live forever, of course, but barring that I'd settle for a couple thousand years. Even 500 would be pretty nice.

Pththya-lyi posted:

For instance, I can't imagine an atheist would get a lot out of prayer!

They really could though, if they would just come out of the closet and come to Jesus, letting his Holy Spirit come all over them.

America Inc. fucked around with this message at 10:12 on Feb 13, 2015

# ? Feb 13, 2015 10:07

Locobono: Nov 6, 2003; Pump Action

Kyrie eleison posted:

And have your never had a bad friend, or do you trust everyone? The former is universal, and the second is foolish. Who is worthy of trust? Someone you have just met? Or someone whose character has been put through the test of time? Someone who has seen all of the hidden elements of you, the embarrassing parts you hide from new people. Many people will not make the cut. People are not all compatible with one another. People always reveal their true nature eventually.

So me having a disappointing experience with another human means I now need to believe in a flawless external entity? Why not just move on and find another friend?

# ? Feb 13, 2015 10:25

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

LookingGodIntheEye posted:

They really could though, if they would just come out of the closet and come to Jesus, letting his Holy Spirit come all over them.

The body of Christ, sleek swimmer's body all muscled up and toned...

# ? Feb 13, 2015 10:28

Pththya-lyi: Nov 8, 2009; THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS_FLpbMmC4

# ? Feb 13, 2015 10:42

Kyrie eleison: Jan 26, 2013; by Ralp

Most of the effect of anti-depressants comes from the placebo effect. The current scientific consensus is that they are only better than an actual placebo in irregular cases of "very severe" depression, but this is probably just because the side effects of the medication make it more believable, and so the placebo effect is stronger. The difference is relatively small, too. Basically taking an anti-depression medication pill is just as good as homeopathy, so long as you believe in homeopathy as much as you believe in heavily marketed magical brain science.

Anti-depressants also increase the risk of suicide (they are required to have an FDA warning to this effect), probably because the side effects make life more difficult, and because once you are on medication there is really nowhere left to turn, if you prefer not to believe in God.

# ? Feb 13, 2015 10:59

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Kyrie eleison posted:

Most of the effect of anti-depressants comes from the placebo effect. The current scientific consensus is that they are only better than an actual placebo in irregular cases of "very severe" depression, but this is probably just because the side effects of the medication make it more believable, and so the placebo effect is stronger. The difference is relatively small, too. Basically taking an anti-depression medication pill is just as good as homeopathy, so long as you believe in homeopathy as much as you believe in heavily marketed magical brain science.

Anti-depressants also increase the risk of suicide (they are required to have an FDA warning to this effect), probably because the side effects make life more difficult, and because once you are on medication there is really nowhere left to turn, if you prefer not to believe in God.

Haha OK so modern medicine is all fake and we should focus on prayer, got it

# ? Feb 13, 2015 11:02

Kyrie eleison: Jan 26, 2013; by Ralp

Nessus posted:

Haha OK so modern medicine is all fake and we should focus on prayer, got it

If the placebo effect proves anything, it is that the power of belief is extremely important to a person's well-being. That's modern science. And I assure you that the medical community will continue to pump out placebo after placebo so long as it is profitable and people are desperate to believe in them; by the time the last one is discredited, people are focusing on the new one.

# ? Feb 13, 2015 11:06

America Inc.: Nov 22, 2013; I plan to live forever, of course, but barring that I'd settle for a couple thousand years. Even 500 would be pretty nice.

Kyrie eleison posted:

If the placebo effect proves anything, it is that the power of belief is extremely important to a person's well-being. That's modern science. And I assure you that the medical community will continue to pump out placebo after placebo so long as it is profitable and people are desperate to believe in them; by the time the last one is discredited, people are focusing on the new one.

To get through the FDA an anti-depressant must be more effective than a placebo.
If you think your priest and God are good enough as your personal therapists, fine, but for actually mentally unstable people it's not going to cut it.

# ? Feb 13, 2015 11:21

Disinterested: Jun 29, 2011; You look like you're still raking it in. Still killing 'em?

Kyrie outs himself as a closet scientologist ITT.

# ? Feb 13, 2015 11:25

Kyrie eleison: Jan 26, 2013; by Ralp

Personally, I just think that if you're going to believe in something to get by, you should believe in something real, like God, and not something phony like anti-depressants.

# ? Feb 13, 2015 11:26

Disinterested: Jun 29, 2011; You look like you're still raking it in. Still killing 'em?

Kyrie eleison posted:

Personally, I just think that if you're going to believe in something to get by, you should believe in something real, like God, and not something phony like anti-depressants.

Haha you are desperate for attention aren't you :allears:

# ? Feb 13, 2015 11:30

America Inc.: Nov 22, 2013; I plan to live forever, of course, but barring that I'd settle for a couple thousand years. Even 500 would be pretty nice.

Isn't it like 5:30 a.m. over there right now Kyrie? Can Jesus help with insomnia?

# ? Feb 13, 2015 11:44

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

Kyrie eleison posted:

If the placebo effect proves anything, it is that the power of belief is extremely important to a person's well-being. That's modern science. And I assure you that the medical community will continue to pump out placebo after placebo so long as it is profitable and people are desperate to believe in them; by the time the last one is discredited, people are focusing on the new one.

These pills are only a placebo, now pray to this god who doesn't care and has never shown up.

# ? Feb 13, 2015 14:57

TwoQuestions: Aug 26, 2011

Kyrie eleison posted:

I was thinking just now about quiet reflection. I was enjoying a simple meal, some minestrone with bread and butter. As is my custom, I gave a nice long prayer before my dinner meal. I am always shocked at how these prayers can adjust my mindset and completely change my views on things. Namely, when I find myself listing my sins, listing what I'm grateful for, and who I want to pray for -- it's like everything completely comes to light. Whoever I had something against, it fades away as I pray for their well being. Whatever complaints I had about my life disappear as I recount my blessings and see just how good I have it. And however haughty I have been, my sins all laid before me, reminds me just how fortunate I am that God puts up with me.

Sometimes, we need to spend some extended time with God in periods of self-criticism. It is good to go home, skip dinner and fast, to lie in bed and to just think and pray. Go over your fears one by one; remember that the only meaningful fear is the fear of God himself.

It is in these moments of mental and spiritual difficulty, the poverty of spirit, that atheists are really at a loss. They cannot commune with God, so instead they commune with the abyss; and the abyss tells them, "everything is meaningless; your life is horrible; you will never be forgiven or understood; the rest of your life will be pain and struggle; you will always be lonely no matter who you are around" and so on. This is hardly a comforting voice, nor a constructive one.

Next time you find yourself in absolute misery, or if not that, just contemplative, think about prayer. You might be surprised how effectively it works to mold your mind in a constructive direction, and relieve your anxieties.

You're fooling yourself if you think you can influence God in any way shape or form. You have sinned, and you cannot escape your just fate. No amount of groveling saved the Nazis from Allied justice, and no amount of groveling will save you from Divine justice.

# ? Feb 13, 2015 15:13

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Kyrie eleison posted:

I was thinking just now about quiet reflection. I was enjoying a simple meal, some minestrone with bread and butter. As is my custom, I gave a nice long prayer before my dinner meal. I am always shocked at how these prayers can adjust my mindset and completely change my views on things. Namely, when I find myself listing my sins, listing what I'm grateful for, and who I want to pray for -- it's like everything completely comes to light. Whoever I had something against, it fades away as I pray for their well being. Whatever complaints I had about my life disappear as I recount my blessings and see just how good I have it. And however haughty I have been, my sins all laid before me, reminds me just how fortunate I am that God puts up with me.

Sometimes, we need to spend some extended time with God in periods of self-criticism. It is good to go home, skip dinner and fast, to lie in bed and to just think and pray. Go over your fears one by one; remember that the only meaningful fear is the fear of God himself.

It is in these moments of mental and spiritual difficulty, the poverty of spirit, that atheists are really at a loss. They cannot commune with God, so instead they commune with the abyss; and the abyss tells them, "everything is meaningless; your life is horrible; you will never be forgiven or understood; the rest of your life will be pain and struggle; you will always be lonely no matter who you are around" and so on. This is hardly a comforting voice, nor a constructive one.

Next time you find yourself in absolute misery, or if not that, just contemplative, think about prayer. You might be surprised how effectively it works to mold your mind in a constructive direction, and relieve your anxieties.

Not sure Nietzsche was asking you to hold a running conversation with the abyss. I mean personally I've never done any communing with any abyss at all but maybe that's just me.

I've always found just being relatively upbeat to be a fairly good solution? If you do the actions the emotions follow and all that.

# ? Feb 13, 2015 17:01

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Tell us your opinion about vaccines now, since modern medicine is just placebos and a cheap substitute for prayer I guess.

Hell, or antibiotics for that matter

# ? Feb 13, 2015 20:09

Kyrie eleison: Jan 26, 2013; by Ralp

Nessus posted:

Tell us your opinion about vaccines now, since modern medicine is just placebos and a cheap substitute for prayer I guess.

Hell, or antibiotics for that matter

My views on anti-depressants are 100% in accordance with the consensus of mainstream modern science, just like my views on vaccines.

# ? Feb 13, 2015 20:36

Who What Now: Sep 10, 2006; by Azathoth

Kyrie eleison posted:

My views on anti-depressants are 100% in accordance with the consensus of mainstream modern science,

Post a single published peer-reviewed paper that says anti-depressants are just placebos.

# ? Feb 13, 2015 20:41

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Soiled Meat

Kyrie eleison posted:

My views on anti-depressants are 100% in accordance with the consensus of mainstream modern science, just like my views on vaccines.

What are your views on vaccines, because frankly your idea of 100% consensus is a bit unorthodox.

# ? Feb 13, 2015 20:43

Kyrie eleison: Jan 26, 2013; by Ralp

Who What Now posted:

Post a single published peer-reviewed paper that says anti-depressants are just placebos.

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=185157

Conclusions: The magnitude of benefit of antidepressant medication compared with placebo increases with severity of depression symptoms and may be minimal or nonexistent, on average, in patients with mild or moderate symptoms. For patients with very severe depression, the benefit of medications over placebo is substantial.

steinrokkan posted:

What are your views on vaccines, because frankly your idea of 100% consensus is a bit unorthodox.

Vaccines are real and don't cause autism or whatever (autism is actually caused by poor socialization).

That said it's probably immoral to force someone to take a vaccine if they really don't want to despite your best efforts to explain their validity. I imagine that's only a handful of nutbars which don't pose any significant herd risk

# ? Feb 13, 2015 21:43

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Kyrie eleison posted:

That said it's probably immoral to force someone to take a vaccine if they really don't want to despite your best efforts to explain their validity. I imagine that's only a handful of nutbars which don't pose any significant herd risk

You may wish to pay a little more attention to the recent measles outbreak, it turns out that people who dislike vaccines tend to herd together, meaning they are very good at spreading the disease to others who aren't vaccinated and also those who cannot be.

# ? Feb 13, 2015 21:45

Mc Do Well: Aug 2, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

I'm going off my SSRI so let's put this to the test!

# ? Feb 13, 2015 21:45

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

McDowell posted:

I'm going off my SSRI so let's put this to the test!

There is only one thing that matters and it is anti-psychotics

# ? Feb 13, 2015 21:51

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Kyrie eleison posted:

Vaccines are real and don't cause autism or whatever (autism is actually caused by poor socialization).

Haha OK buddy. Let me guess, if they let them be altar boys they wouldn't get the 'tism, right? Any other hot medical tips from St. Michael or whomever?

# ? Feb 13, 2015 22:12

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

McDowell posted:

I'm going off my SSRI so let's put this to the test!

This will be the start of a golden age in your posting.

# ? Feb 14, 2015 00:02

Kyrie eleison: Jan 26, 2013; by Ralp

I'm really glad that I live in this time where I can go online and post with other mentally ill people.

# ? Feb 14, 2015 00:22

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Still wondering where you got the notion that nihilism means you have to hate everything and listen to my chemical romance 24/7.

# ? Feb 14, 2015 01:19

Mc Do Well: Aug 2, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

Kyrie eleison posted:

I'm really glad that I live in this time where I can go online and post with other mentally ill people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--wAw7gBQxU

Reality isn't what it used to be...

# ? Feb 14, 2015 01:24

Blisster: Mar 10, 2010; What you are listening to are musicians performing psychedelic music under the influence of a mind altering chemical called...

Kyrie eleison posted:

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=185157

Conclusions: The magnitude of benefit of antidepressant medication compared with placebo increases with severity of depression symptoms and may be minimal or nonexistent, on average, in patients with mild or moderate symptoms. For patients with very severe depression, the benefit of medications over placebo is substantial.

I fixed the bolding for you.

# ? Feb 14, 2015 01:24

Pththya-lyi: Nov 8, 2009; THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

Kyrie eleison posted:

(autism is actually largely caused by genetic factors)

Fixed that for you. The "refrigerator mothers" theory has been largely discredited.

# ? Feb 14, 2015 01:34

Rodatose: Jul 8, 2008; corn, corn, corn

when I poop I communicate w god & reflect on how I am expelling the evil from my body, and I feel ounces better of a person. I concentrate on the pooping act and what evil that might have been. if my communing with the G Man doesn't reveal to me what specific evils I've expelled, sometimes I examine the poop once it's in the bowl, break it open with a stick, etc.. It helps to have a german style high-shelf toilet in these cases.

# ? Feb 14, 2015 05:25

Pththya-lyi: Nov 8, 2009; THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

Martin Luther struggled with constipation and he often spent time contemplating God on the toilet

Rodatose may be on to something here

# ? Feb 14, 2015 09:20

Kyrie eleison: Jan 26, 2013; by Ralp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlNx7m1KW7Y

When a Protestant is right, he's right.

Four days until Lent. I'm going to go hardcore. Been lazy as heck since the holiday season.

# ? Feb 14, 2015 21:15

Who What Now: Sep 10, 2006; by Azathoth

Kyrie eleison posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlNx7m1KW7Y

When a Protestant is right, he's right.

Four days until Lent. I'm going to go hardcore. Been lazy as heck since the holiday season.

Christ, what an rear end in a top hat.

# ? Feb 14, 2015 21:25