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wateyad posted:Just looking at those screenshots, the Aeon Genesis one seems way better to me. The Dynamic-Designs one seems to only be interested in imparting the information contained in the text the text in full, proper English sentences whereas the Aeon Genesis one was actually treating it as dialogue spoken by characters. It seemed the other way around, to me.
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Feb 14, 2015 04:09
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alcharagia posted:It seemed the other way around, to me. The Dynamic-Designs one uses flowerier language but it's completely mono-voiced, like the contents of the text boxes are all being spoken by an omnipresent narrator. It seemed like it might be the better one right up until the fireplace started speaking.
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Feb 14, 2015 04:17
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I dunno, I feel like the Aeon Genesis guys should have taken a step back to look over at their finished script, then take some liberties in changing lines to make things sound more english "correct". Like in these two shop screens.  Aeon Genesis Quits the shop, and Dynamic-Designs Exits the shop, You leave or exit places, you don't quit places, this kind of stuff just bugs me.
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Feb 14, 2015 04:31
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al-azad posted:Localization >>>> direct translation. Or worse, honorifics and untranslated terms everywhere. Thankfully that's more of a fan translation thing though.
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Feb 14, 2015 04:37
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al-azad posted:Localization >>>> direct translation. 
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Feb 14, 2015 04:38
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loving get that game out of here
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Feb 14, 2015 04:43
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Im_Special posted:I dunno, I feel like the Aeon Genesis guys should have taken a step back to look over at their finished script, then take some liberties in changing lines to make things sound more english "correct". Like in these two shop screens. So which one is correct, narrative-wise? Is it some kind of army surplus store with good stuff, or is it a store left short-stocked by the war? That'll tell you quickly which one is the better translation.
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Feb 14, 2015 04:45
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Im_Special posted:I dunno, I feel like the Aeon Genesis guys should have taken a step back to look over at their finished script, then take some liberties in changing lines to make things sound more english "correct". Like in these two shop screens. That has less to do with editing and more to do with the way scripts store things. In the Japanese original that word is best translated as "Stop" literally and I'd bet good money it appears exactly once in the script and is just referenced every single time the menu option appears, in any menu at all. Other than dicking with the coding for shop menus vs. other menus and everything else you get to pick one word to use for all of those times it appears. In other words, there are going to be some places that's used where "Exit" sounds a lot worse than "Quit," and others where "Quit" sounds worse than "Exit." But either way you're only going to get to pick one to use for all of them. Comparing those lines with the Japanese original (which I'm pretty familiar with, having played a bunch of times) I'd say it's kind of subjective. There are some lines in the AG I like better and some in the DD that I like better. It's definitely clear though that the AG translation tried better to get the individual accents and weirdness in each character more than the DD one does. That fire dialogue for the DD translation is terrible--the fire in the Japanese one talks in pidgin Japanese, and they didn't even attempt to do anything to capture the oddness of it. Heavy neutrino posted:So which one is correct, narrative-wise? Is it some kind of army surplus store with good stuff, or is it a store left short-stocked by the war? That'll tell you quickly which one is the better translation. Just fired up my copy of Mystic Ark. That line is: ここは道具の売り場だ わが軍は道具だけはいろいろそろっているよ I'd translate that as "This is where we sell items. When it comes to items, our army has quite the selection." So I don't think either is quite right, but the Aeon Genesis version is closer to the original. I don't think it's saying that ONLY their army has a good selection but it doesn't say anything about being short-stocked.
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Feb 14, 2015 04:58
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Genpei Turtle posted:That has less to do with editing and more to do with the way scripts store things. In the Japanese original that word is best translated as "Stop" literally and I'd bet good money it appears exactly once in the script and is just referenced every single time the menu option appears, in any menu at all. Other than dicking with the coding for shop menus vs. other menus and everything else you get to pick one word to use for all of those times it appears. In other words, there are going to be some places that's used where "Exit" sounds a lot worse than "Quit," and others where "Quit" sounds worse than "Exit." But either way you're only going to get to pick one to use for all of them. Yeah this makes sense, I hadn't thought about it like this. Heavy neutrino posted:So which one is correct, narrative-wise? Is it some kind of army surplus store with good stuff, or is it a store left short-stocked by the war? That'll tell you quickly which one is the better translation. I'm leaning towards second one, even though "liberties", they're in a war, missing their spy and without him they are kinda dead in the water at the moment, their miners are also coming up empty handed on ore because of reasons so they can't produce any new weaponry, so they are low on supplies you'd expect to have during war times, it only makes sense that they are low on stock for items as well.
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Feb 14, 2015 05:34
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Im_Special posted:I dunno, I feel like the Aeon Genesis guys should have taken a step back to look over at their finished script, then take some liberties in changing lines to make things sound more english "correct". Like in these two shop screens. What game was this again?
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Feb 14, 2015 05:50
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Im_Special posted:I'm leaning towards second one, even though "liberties", they're in a war, missing their spy and without him they are kinda dead in the water at the moment, their miners are also coming up empty handed on ore because of reasons so they can't produce any new weaponry, so they are low on supplies you'd expect to have during war times, it only makes sense that they are low on stock for items as well. Er, did you see my above post? That line about being low on supplies is a straight-up fabrication. In the Japanese original, which I just quoted above, the shopkeeper is bragging about the variety of his stock. That's not just "liberties," that's literally writing the opposite of what was in the original script.
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Feb 14, 2015 06:04
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Genpei Turtle posted:Er, did you see my above post? That line about being low on supplies is a straight-up fabrication. In the Japanese original, which I just quoted above, the shopkeeper is bragging about the variety of his stock. That's not just "liberties," that's literally writing the opposite of what was in the original script.
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Feb 14, 2015 06:09
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mpyro posted:What game was this again? Mystic Ark Genpei Turtle posted:Er, did you see my above post? That line about being low on supplies is a straight-up fabrication. In the Japanese original, which I just quoted above, the shopkeeper is bragging about the variety of his stock. That's not just "liberties," that's literally writing the opposite of what was in the original script. Yes I did read it, but dialog from the other NPC's around the ship tell you of their problems, the war they are in, and the weapon supply issues they're facing, I was replying to the guy who asked about which one was better "narrative-wise". You can put me down in the localization > direct translation camp.
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Feb 14, 2015 06:13
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Im_Special posted:Mystic Ark OK, that's fair enough, but there's localization and then there's just messing with what's already there for no good reason. There's nothing outright wrong with having a guy talk about how his shop have a lot of good stuff. The designers of the game opted to have that particular guy be proud of his stock for whatever reason. At this point you're veering away from "I'm going to make this game sound more natural to an English-speaking audience" and into "I don't like the way the designers made this script, I'm going to try and change it more to my liking." Genpei Turtle fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Feb 14, 2015 |
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Feb 14, 2015 06:17
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Im_Special posted:You can put me down in the localization > direct translation camp. A good localization works off a good direct translation, though. Changing cultural jokes that don't translate well, puns that only work because of the sound of the language, those things there is more leeway for coming up with a new line, that works in the target language. That shop example though is more just coming up with stuff for the sake of coming up with stuff.
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Feb 14, 2015 06:38
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I can't say which one is technically the better translation because I can't read the original work, all I can do is compare one fan translation to the other, being completely new to the understanding of this story, the DD one is just flowing together better for me. I guess ignorance is bliss here.
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Feb 14, 2015 06:46
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My housemate pointed me in the direction of this thread, thought I should weigh in since I did the Aeon Genesis translation of Mystic Ark back in the day and still have the file dump Gideon sent me. (According to the file dates I did that translation over a decade ago. Was it really that long?) So, looking at those comparison screenshots I think a lot of this is subjective. I definitely like at least some of the lines/word choice at least from the DD translation better than my own. Going back through the script I have they both seem OK from those screenshots, though as pointed out there are errors (like that shop doesn't insist that only their army has a great supply, just that their supply is good--I don't know where I got that from) and in the DD translation at least, some "artistic license" taken. One thing I think might be of interest, and where it looks like DD's translation deviates from my own, is that Mystic Ark is a very, very simple game script-wise. Based on the simple syntax and the Kanji usage in the script, it was probably targeted at younger players. I tried to capture that when doing the translation by keeping it pretty simple to preserve that atmosphere. It looks like the DD translation opted not to do that. One could consider that that's a better tack to take, considering that most people playing translated Mystic Ark are going to be older than the preteens and tweens the original game was aimed at. But I don't think it does a great job translating the atmosphere, so to speak. Whether or not that's something worth preserving is something of a subjective decision, I think. Also that thing about "Quit" and menus is right, but I don't think it was a conscious choice. Paging through the script it looks like the "Quit" option appears in the context of the file manipulation menu (start new game, copy game, "quit" game) in terms of the other menu options it falls in, which is how that slipped in. I don't know whether or not "Exit' might be better elsewhere.
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Feb 14, 2015 06:52
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fat text is super-boring. everyone talks like they have a rod up their rear end. thin text is more fun and adventurey seeming because the cats meow, the fireplace talks like it barely understands words, etc. peace.
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Feb 14, 2015 07:02
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Masakado posted:One thing I think might be of interest, and where it looks like DD's translation deviates from my own, is that Mystic Ark is a very, very simple game script-wise. Based on the simple syntax and the Kanji usage in the script, it was probably targeted at younger players. I tried to capture that when doing the translation by keeping it pretty simple to preserve that atmosphere. It looks like the DD translation opted not to do that. One could consider that that's a better tack to take, considering that most people playing translated Mystic Ark are going to be older than the preteens and tweens the original game was aimed at. But I don't think it does a great job translating the atmosphere, so to speak. Whether or not that's something worth preserving is something of a subjective decision, I think.
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Feb 14, 2015 07:04
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So what's the best PSP RPGs? I have Persona 2 & 3, SOTN, Disgaea 2.
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Feb 14, 2015 16:07
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Rascyc posted:Haha, this explains a lot. I really did feel like I was playing a different version of Mystic Quest instead of 7th Saga. Everything was just so extraordinary simple, including the game play. I expected a little more out of a sequel but nope. It's not a sequel at all; people only thought so based on the art because they didn't know enough Japanese to understand it's unrelated in everything except developers
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Feb 14, 2015 16:15
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Firstborn posted:So what's the best PSP RPGs? Fun thing to do there: get an accessory that grants the wearer a small chance to do an instant kill by beheading, get lucky and off the final story boss with a boomerang throw a couple of turns into the fight. Also, to get into one of the dungeons you have to wear armour that is actually a huge piece of meat.
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Feb 14, 2015 17:19
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So I'll take your guys advice and ditch Sharla. That said I'm doing the Colony 6 missions and am currently on the one where Anna sent two of her friends into the Ether Cave. I found the first friend right at the entrance but the second friend is nowhere to be found. Also can I really built all of the building for Colony 6 right away? I can't find the "Dark Grapes" or whatever it is for the Special Building.
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Feb 14, 2015 17:23
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The Drainage Control room inside the mines, next to a merchant. Dark Grapes can be found in Tephra Cave, or you could just Trade with Anna.
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Feb 14, 2015 17:27
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corn in the bible posted:It's not a sequel at all; people only thought so based on the art because they didn't know enough Japanese to understand it's unrelated in everything except developers That's not entirely the case, the two definitely have a really strong connection. Both Mystic Ark and Elnard (7th Saga in Japan) center around collecting the "Arks," there's that crystal ball for enemy encounters, you've got Lux the "Iron Man" in both games, the default name for the male MC is the same name as the first town in Elnard, some mechanics like a successful block increasing physical damage, etc. It's not a direct sequel in the sense that there's no story connection, but the two games share a lot of elements and it's pretty obvious that Elnard had a lot of influence on Mystic Ark's development.
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Feb 14, 2015 17:51
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I see I missed the train a little, but I have to post Sharla thoughts: She isn't useless at all but, like most characters, she's really bad at doing intelligent things as AI. I played as her for at least half of my playtime while having Reyn and Somebody as teammates and had a great time. Reyn does fine for himself pulling aggro as AI and then you just need your favorite damage dealer to actually hit the enemies hard.
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Feb 14, 2015 17:53
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Genpei Turtle posted:That's not entirely the case, the two definitely have a really strong connection. Both Mystic Ark and Elnard (7th Saga in Japan) center around collecting the "Arks," there's that crystal ball for enemy encounters, you've got Lux the "Iron Man" in both games, the default name for the male MC is the same name as the first town in Elnard, some mechanics like a successful block increasing physical damage, etc. It's not a direct sequel in the sense that there's no story connection, but the two games share a lot of elements and it's pretty obvious that Elnard had a lot of influence on Mystic Ark's development. As far as I recall, it's... really complicated. But basically, the main characters of Mystic Ark and Brain Lord (another game by the same developer) are actually the same guy (Lemele), who is the reincarnation of whichever hero you chose in The 7th Saga (because spoilers: no matter who you pick, The 7th Saga ends with you dying and being reincarnated as Lemele). I think that's how it went, anyway.
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Feb 14, 2015 18:12
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Sharla is really stupid. I was dying over and over on the Dark Kisling bat fight at the Ether cave. About 30 times in a row. Sharla kept dying before I could even get a block to revive her. I asked online about what to do and someone told me to try playing as Sharla. I did so and guess what? The fight became easy.
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Feb 14, 2015 18:18
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The Timely Howard posted:As far as I recall, it's... really complicated. But basically, the main characters of Mystic Ark and Brain Lord (another game by the same developer) are actually the same guy (Lemele), who is the reincarnation of whichever hero you chose in The 7th Saga (because spoilers: no matter who you pick, The 7th Saga ends with you dying and being reincarnated as Lemele). Only problem with that is that Lemele isn't a person in Elnard/7th Saga, it's just a town. The guy in the ending of Elnard's you end up as is Jeeda, not Lemele.
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Feb 14, 2015 18:41
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Genpei Turtle posted:Only problem with that is that Lemele isn't a person in Elnard/7th Saga, it's just a town. The guy in the ending of Elnard's you end up as is Jeeda, not Lemele. Isn't the dude who sends you on your quest named Lemele?
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Feb 14, 2015 18:50
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AngryRobotsInc posted:Isn't the dude who sends you on your quest named Lemele? Nope, his name is Jeeda. In Elnard at least. I don't remember if they changed it for 7th Saga though.
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Feb 14, 2015 19:14
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Genpei Turtle posted:Nope, his name is Jeeda. In Elnard at least. I don't remember if they changed it for 7th Saga though. They did. Although technically (major 7th Saga spoiler)... The guy who sends you on your quest in 7th Saga is actually Gorsia, who killed Lemele before the events of the game and disguised himself as Lemele, then sent you on the quest to retrieve the runes containing his sealed power.
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Feb 14, 2015 19:21
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Genpei Turtle posted:Nope, his name is Jeeda. In Elnard at least. I don't remember if they changed it for 7th Saga though. Ah. Yeah, like said above, they did change it for the 7th Saga. I haven't played through much of Elnard, because the font makes my eyes bleed, so I barely remember anything from that version.
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Feb 14, 2015 19:23
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Genpei Turtle posted:Nope, his name is Jeeda. In Elnard at least. I don't remember if they changed it for 7th Saga though.  Yep.
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Feb 14, 2015 19:30
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Terper posted:The Drainage Control room inside the mines, next to a merchant. Terper posted:Dark Grapes can be found in Tephra Cave, or you could just Trade with Anna. Thanks.
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Feb 14, 2015 19:40
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Figured I'd give an update to my run through Shining The Holy Ark, just in case anyone was on the edge of their seat to know what it's like to play through an RPG that is 19 years old. First and foremost, this...game......is.........so............painfully....................s..........................l......................o.................w. Everything from movement, to selection screens, loading enemies, attacking, magic, conversing with NPCs, is stuck in slow motion. I badly want to open up the Saturn itself and stick 16MB RAM chip into it, just so the drat system doesn't feel so taxed. Of all the games I've ever played, this may be the game that feels like it most thoroughly pushes the limits of the system's technology. In the case of StHA, it actually pushed the limits pass what was acceptable, because the game does suffer from it. The main town is fairly small and unpopulated, but in terms of the game world it's big and bustling with activity, and the game absolutely bogs down whenever you enter it. Overall, I think the game runs at a pretty constant 10fps, it's hair pulling maddening at times. During conversations with merchants the has a very rigid procedure as you select what you want to do (buy, sell, special, exit) and each selection comes with a different dialog from the NPC. God help you if you misclick! You find yourself slamming the C button is the useless hope that it will speed up the dialog...like every other RPG in history. In the end it is a game that was too ambitious for the hardware and should have been scaled down early in development. It would be an interesting idea for a re-imagining done on today's hardware. As for the game itself it's very....ok. The battle system is pretty standard issue which, aside from the fairies, doesn't offer much of anything revolutionary. Smithing is pretty cool and useful, so that's a plus. At nearly 40 hours in the game the fairies are becoming a little bit useless in terms of the damage they deal. Even with 7 or 8 of them at once you're really only looking at them dealing maybe ~70 damage, where as my main characters can routinely deal 90-110 per attack. The big gripes I have with the game are this: 1) This is maybe the most story-lite RPG I've ever played. Something about Vandals and a Thousand Year Kingdom....and there's spirits....and a prophecy. Seriously, it's not so much nonsensical (it's a RPG after all) as it is just nonexistent. I barely have a sense of the main characters, Rodi is some kind of ninja, Melody is a mercenary, and Arthur (the main character) is one of those silent protagonists that I despise. The rest of your crew is made up of people who seem like they should be important...but all are virtually voiceless. I can't even say that the characters are 2 dimensional...they're at best 1 dimensional. Most simply exist to fill in a slot on your reserve team. You only get the final member of your team after the second of three "Sacred Treasure" dungeons, there's hardly any game left after that (from what I understand). I've seen games with larger casts do a better job of explaining who the character is. This lack of story would be somewhat forgivable if the game were more fun to play; but as I said about the battle system, there just isn't much reason to care about what's happening. 2) A far cry from Morrowind, but this game doesn't hold your hand at all. I feel like at 40 hours I should have a better idea of certain mechanics than I do. For the most part you are left to your own devices on most issues, the game's own manual doesn't really explain much of anything. A simple thing like having your characters upgraded at a church is never actually explained, the "why" of it all is never mentioned. The world is pretty small, but the general idea of where you're suppose to go and why you're doing it is barely explained. It does lead to some moments of "Where am I going?". It's not game breaking, but when the overall flow of the game is as slow as it is it becomes very irritating to cause yourself extra needless backtracking. Also, only being able to save at a church is a real bitch. It's a lame attempt at making the game more challenging. Overall, I see that this game garners some really high prices on Ebay and I simply don't understand why. Once I finish it I will put it back on my shelf and promptly forget everything about it.
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Feb 15, 2015 00:32
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eBay prices are often based purely on rarity than the quality of the actual game.
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Feb 15, 2015 01:10
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drat still cant dicide whether to start Trails in the Sky when theres so much other gaming to be done but I need good writing and a good story and some throwback 2.5d japanimation gaming
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Feb 15, 2015 05:51
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Sharla is innately nerfed in a way that no other character is. For every other character, abilities are limited by cooldown and sometimes buff/debuff states. They can't infinitely spam their best moves because of the cooldowns (at least until you get into crazy infinite chain territory). For Sharla though, her abilities fill her skill gauge. When it is completely full, she becomes unable to do anything but empty the gauge. Even though her abilities have giant cooldowns and draw loads of aggro, someone seemed to think that sharla was so powerful that she needed a limiter. Sharla doesn't suck because healing sucks in xenoblade, she sucks due to an inexplicable design choice. I can think of at least 5 different ways to fix this just off hand, but I am confident that the upcoming port will fix none of her problems.
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Feb 15, 2015 06:17
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Firstborn posted:So what's the best PSP RPGs? I have Persona 2 & 3, SOTN, Disgaea 2.
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Feb 15, 2015 07:43
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