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Clarste posted:The problem is that Bioware treats politics as merely an obstacle that you need to get around to fight the monsters. They literally only exist to get in your way when your hero is asking for support. I don't think they have it in them to treat them with any more respect than that, because it would interfere with the fantasy they're selling: that you're a lone hero who's always right and the goal of the game is to bend the setting to your will. That's absolutely correct. To an extent, all RPGs are going to involve some player ego stroking. Even if they're not an awesome save the world type character, the story still likely revolves around them(see, e.g. Planescape: Torment). And it brings something to mind that's dissapointing about all Bioware RPGs, since Baldur's Gate: they're basically just there for the combat. The solution to every problem in the game is to kill more monsters. KOTOR stepped away from this; one of Bioware's best quests was a murder mystery, where the perpetrator was sympathetic and the victim villainous. Even Neverwinter Nights, who's main story is (rightly) largely forgotten featured some interesting deviations, like taking part in a trial at a military camp. In Arcanum, you get to stuff like negotiate treaties between major powers and take part in local small town politics. Truthfully, the gameplay involved isn't that complex-its often just not navigating dialog trees with stat checks. But it does a lot to flesh out the gameplay experience and world, I think. It is probably hyperoble to say they're dragging the entire genre down. But it is a little frustrating that they are the largest developer and seem determined to regress the genre in every way except "cinematic" presentation and facial customization. And its been that way for a while. Fallout preceded Baldur's Gate, and it included features like multiple quest solutions, character stats that mattered outside of combat/dungeon crawling, and a reactive story. Baldur's Gate came out a year later, and it was gorgeous and a pretty good game-but didn't include any of these features. KOTOR actually incorporated some Fallout-like features, and so did Dragon Age: Origins, but they're games since seem to really be doubling down on the combat arenas+soap opera elements.
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Feb 16, 2015 03:23
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Since Mass Effect and it's ending has been mentioned I need some clarification. I recently bought the Mass Effect Trilogy for cheap and I was wondering if it comes with the rewritten ending. Keep in mind, I know NOTHING about the game, but I've been told that it was fun and was worth picking up cheap. Please don't spoil anything from me, I'm just curious if the copy that I bought has the original or rewritten ending.
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Feb 16, 2015 03:44
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SpitztheGreat posted:Since Mass Effect and it's ending has been mentioned I need some clarification. I recently bought the Mass Effect Trilogy for cheap and I was wondering if it comes with the rewritten ending. You'll have to download it, the Trilogy's just the three games packed together. Get yourself the ME2 and ME3 story DLC's while you're at it, because they're all really good. At the very least get "From the Ashes" before you start ME3.
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Feb 16, 2015 03:47
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Neddy Seagoon posted:You'll have to download it, the Trilogy's just the three games packed together. Get yourself the ME2 and ME3 story DLC's while you're at it, because they're all really good. At the very least get "From the Ashes" before you start ME3. So the DLC is not included, I was told it was...
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Feb 16, 2015 03:53
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SpitztheGreat posted:So the DLC is not included, I was told it was... Some of the DLC is included but not all of it. I think From Ashes is included in ME3 though but I'm not 100% sure.
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Feb 16, 2015 03:57
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SpitztheGreat posted:So the DLC is not included, I was told it was... It depends on the platform. Only the PS3 version gets some of the story DLC's. Mass Effect Wiki posted:Xbox 360:
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Feb 16, 2015 03:58
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I can't find the source but I recall someone at Bioware said they didn't want content the player couldn't see in a single playthrough. Sometimes it's important to present two different paths and close one behind you. It cheapens the players sense of immersion if they can turn around and walk the other path. You also shouldn't make the results of every choice a commodity. The Witcher did away with this by having the results come much later so the player feels like they're having some impact on the story beyond "Turn in thief for 100gp + 5 good points or don't turn in thief 500gp + 3 evil points." Also Bioware games have a huge cast of characters with absolutely no stakes in the story. Like others have said, the PC is the center of the universe and no one else matters. The Walking Dead was totally linear but I valued some characters so much that I went out of my way to appease them and that made the difference in how I perceived the plot. But that last bit is kind of a pet peeve I have with RPGs in general. We keep making games where your ability scores and skills play into choices but I'm hard pressed to think of examples where your party augment your options. Like who the gently caress are these random bandits who see Master Assassin and 9' Tall Bull Warrior walking down the road and thinking "Yeah, I can those guys!" Why can't I get a discount on magical reagents when I have the world's best mage in my party? Why can't I be granted an instant audience with this town's politician when I have a nobleman in my party?! al-azad fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Feb 16, 2015 |
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Feb 16, 2015 04:07
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That's what I liked about Neverwinter Nights 2. Sure, it was mostly generic orc hunting garbage, but there's this really awesome beat at the start of act II where you're accused of a crime you didn't commit and your entire party is trying to get you off the hook. The stubborn, bookish guy is playing Phoenix Wright via rules lawyering, the bard is trying to get the jury on your side, the simple farm girl you took under your wing walks out and goes 'by golly, player sure is a good person, y'all.' It's neat to see them existing in the world outside of stat blocks.
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Feb 16, 2015 04:11
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al-azad posted:I can't find the source but I recall someone at Bioware said they didn't want content the player couldn't see in a single playthrough. Sometimes it's important to present two different paths and close one behind you. It cheapens the players sense of immersion if they can turn around and walk the other path. You also shouldn't make the results of every choice a commodity. The Witcher did away with this by having the results come much later so the player feels like they're having some impact on the story beyond "Turn in thief for 100gp + 5 good points or don't turn in thief 500gp + 3 evil points." That's an excellent point. There were very faint glimmers of this in Neverwinter Nights 2, when NPCs would make cursory comments about say, having a tiefling in your party. But they were very shallow. Van Buren(Black Isle's Fallout 3) was actually supposed to have this feature. The Burning Man(who later became Joshua Graham in Fallout: New Vegas) was a potential party member, and he apparently had major effects on how NPCs interacted with you. Its a very cool idea that I haven't really seen implemented in other games. Basically what I want out of RPGs is recognition of meaningful choices from the game. Dragon Age: Inquisition did a pretty good of incorporating some of this(although still far behind the level of Obsidian/CDProjekt) but Bioware's focus seems to be more on making B-movies for the small screen.
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Feb 16, 2015 04:12
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al-azad posted:But that last bit is kind of a pet peeve I have with RPGs in general. We keep making games where your ability scores and skills play into choices but I'm hard pressed to think of examples where your party augment your options. Like who the gently caress are these random bandits who see Master Assassin and 9' Tall Bull Warrior walking down the road and thinking "Yeah, I can those guys!" Why can't I get a discount on magical reagents when I have the world's best mage in my party? Why can't I be granted an instant audience with this town's politician when I have a nobleman in my party?! Aren't there quests that result in Agents that can only happen if you have certain party members with you in DA:I? I think one of Bioware's signature is having a lot of quests that reward you for having certain party members do the other thing besides fighting.
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Feb 16, 2015 04:13
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Tae posted:Aren't there quests that result in Agents that can only happen if you have certain party members with you in DA:I? I think one of Bioware's signature is having a lot of quests that reward you for having certain party members do the other thing besides fighting. I haven't played Inquisition so I can't comment on it. But I was thinking about Divinity where you have two player characters with equal agency and developers need to rip off that idea to death.
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Feb 16, 2015 04:16
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Endorph posted:the simple farm girl you took under your wing walks out and goes 'by golly, player sure is a good person, y'all.' It's neat to see them existing in the world outside of stat blocks. Unless, of course, you aren't and she's like "HE'S A HUGE rear end in a top hat NO gently caress HIM" That courtroom sequence is just great, but I've never actually had a high enough rep with the gnome to have him play the jury for me because bards suck and he's on Pub Duty 
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Feb 16, 2015 04:19
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al-azad posted:I haven't played Inquisition so I can't comment on it. Well I find it weird then you complain about Inquisition not having any when they do. One quest only results in an Agent if Varric is in your party to convince a spy she has "the stuff" to be a spy. DA:O has you potentially kill Wynn from joining by having Morrigan in your party because they are complete opposites on an issue. I'm sure there's a few like that in KOTOR, if I can remember.
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Feb 16, 2015 04:19
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ImpAtom posted:I think in general RPGs could really really benefit from deviating from the 'save the world" plots. It is one of the strengths of the genre in general that it can do things besides high-paced action.
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Feb 16, 2015 04:26
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Tae posted:Well I find it weird then you complain about Inquisition not having any when they do. One quest only results in an Agent if Varric is in your party to convince a spy she has "the stuff" to be a spy. DA:O has you potentially kill Wynn from joining by having Morrigan in your party because they are complete opposites on an issue. I'm sure there's a few like that in KOTOR, if I can remember. I wasn't complaining about Inquisition specifically, just mentioning how your party in Origins could have this qunari monster and a master assassin and no one bats an eye when they challenge you. e: And what I'm talking about specifically is using your party as choices much like you would use an ability score. If a bandit is trying to rob me I would like to see something along the lines of Fight Talk it out (persuasion skill) Master Thief Character: "It's against guild rules to attack another guild member." al-azad fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Feb 16, 2015 |
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Feb 16, 2015 04:32
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Live a Live is still one of my favorite RPGs despite its gameplay flaws because it isn't concerned with the usual stock RPG storylines. Instead it aims for turning a lot of the usual RPG conventions on its head, and is more of a character study on what makes and defines a hero. Admittedly, its storylines pull from a bunch of other genres, including westerns, manga, sci-fi, etc. but that in itself already makes it different from most other RPGs out there.
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Feb 16, 2015 04:33
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Wild Arms 2 is literally an essay about what it means to be a hero, in that it reads more like a high school student's paper than a game or story. Also the translation is terrible. But I still liked it for being weird.
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Feb 16, 2015 04:35
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Neddy Seagoon posted:It depends on the platform. Only the PS3 version gets some of the story DLC's. God damnit, of course I have the 360 version. I've avoided getting Xbox Live, is it worth signing up for the DLC?
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Feb 16, 2015 05:50
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Clarste posted:Wild Arms 2 is literally an essay about what it means to be a hero, in that it reads more like a high school student's paper than a game or story. Also the translation is terrible. But I still liked it for being weird. 
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Feb 16, 2015 05:56
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Panic! at Nabisco posted:If I had a student who wrote like the dialogue in WA2 they would not get a very good grade Liz and Ard's dialog is literally perfect 
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Feb 16, 2015 06:01
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Panic! at Nabisco posted:If I had a student who wrote like the dialogue in WA2 they would not get a very good grade If you don't approve of the way I describe my female characters as person (woman), then I'm going to have to complain to the university's gender identity department OneDeadman posted:Liz and Ard's dialog is literally perfect 
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Feb 16, 2015 06:02
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Not that Alter Code: F was really all that great compared to WA1, but I kind of wish WA2 had gotten the same treatment, so it could have gotten a better translation, and still have the PSX version for nostalgia. I'm honestly pretty surprised there hasn't been a fan translation by this point.
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Feb 16, 2015 06:04
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It's really, really, really hard to get people together to do a fan translation for a game that has any form of translation already unless the act of inserting text is utterly trivial. (And sometimes not even then.) PS1 games are notoriously a pain in the rear end to get the text inserted into so you have to have a real dedicated team eager to do it and that just doesn't exist for a game with an existing if terrible translation.
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Feb 16, 2015 06:13
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SpitztheGreat posted:God damnit, of course I have the 360 version. I've avoided getting Xbox Live, is it worth signing up for the DLC? Yes the DLC's really good, and you should probably get yourself a Gold XBL Subscription. You get two free games, to keep, every month as part of the Games with Gold program and more often than not they're full retail releases. This month started with Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons, which has now been replaced in the second half of the month with Sniper Elite V2.
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Feb 16, 2015 06:14
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ImpAtom posted:It's really, really, really hard to get people together to do a fan translation for a game that has any form of translation already unless the act of inserting text is utterly trivial. (And sometimes not even then.) PS1 games are notoriously a pain in the rear end to get the text inserted into so you have to have a real dedicated team eager to do it and that just doesn't exist for a game with an existing if terrible translation. Point. I'd have just expected to at least have heard rumblings of a fan translation, since WA seems to have a pretty strong cult following. Granted, most projects I've seen where they already have a translation have been FF games, and the only PSX one out of those is VII. Even that's for the PC version (and pretty crap).
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Feb 16, 2015 06:17
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Edit: Wrong thread somehow.
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Feb 16, 2015 06:21
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AngryRobotsInc posted:Point. I'd have just expected to at least have heard rumblings of a fan translation, since WA seems to have a pretty strong cult following. Granted, most projects I've seen where they already have a translation have been FF games, and the only PSX one out of those is VII. Even that's for the PC version (and pretty crap). Out of curiosity, what's wrong with that fan translation? I've never really heard anything about it. Watching the Final Fantasy 7 LP really reminds you how terrible the official translation for 7 is. I think my favorite is translating Lifestream as Life's Dream for one conversation, despite translating it as the former for the entire game.
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Feb 16, 2015 06:28
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mycot posted:Out of curiosity, what's wrong with that fan translation? I've never really heard anything about it. It's made by ~GLORIOUS NIPPON~ crazies, including a dude who wants to excise Cait Sith because, and I quote: quote:When finished, this mod will completely remove Cait Sith from the game in favour of a new human character called Iscar Thias. Iscar is from Judus Iscariot, and Thias is from Matthias, the apostle chosen to replace him. I have chosen these names to be symbolic of the character's betrayal, and change into a valued ally. Iscar will change and grow as a character. At first he will be a simple Shin-Ra spy, dedicated to his job, but over time, he will come to understand that he is working for the wrong people and change sides. Big thing of all the non-dialogue stuff. Not hard to dig through and find something that makes you go "....really? So in general the sort of crazies who can go "We must adhere to everything in the original" and change Zack to Zax, nevermind all the stuff that makes it clear they're sticking with Zack even in Japan, while going "I clearly know better than the writers" in the same breath.
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Feb 16, 2015 06:37
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The basic plot will remain intact, except that it will be more plausible. *rides a dolphin*
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Feb 16, 2015 06:40
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AngryRobotsInc posted:Big thing of all the non-dialogue stuff. Not hard to dig through and find something that makes you go "....really? Moguri and Crime Hazzard do it for me.
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Feb 16, 2015 06:45
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kirbysuperstar posted:Moguri and Crime Hazzard do it for me. Ha. Yeah. "Hmm....this Engrish could either be Climb or Crime. Cloud does a rising slash. ....clearly it means Crime!"
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Feb 16, 2015 06:51
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AngryRobotsInc posted:It's made by ~GLORIOUS NIPPON~ crazies, including a dude who wants to excise Cait Sith because, and I quote: SOLDIER even works in the translation, because it looks like an anagram. "He used to be in Soldier", looks and sounds awful.
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Feb 16, 2015 06:51
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AngryRobotsInc posted:It's made by ~GLORIOUS NIPPON~ crazies, including a dude who wants to excise Cait Sith because, and I quote: I had no clue that fan translation and the Remove Cait Sith mod were the same thing. Wow.
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Feb 16, 2015 06:52
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Crime Hazard is basically the point where nothing about the translation can be defended because ha ha ha ha ha.
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Feb 16, 2015 06:53
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No, no, you're all misinterpreting it. Crime Hazard is what he changed the Steal materia to
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Feb 16, 2015 07:22
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kirbysuperstar posted:Moguri and Crime Hazzard do it for me. The hilarious thing is that Moguri is literally MOOGLE, the official 100% Square-Enix approved spelling of that character. They didn't call Chocobo "Chokobo" but they called a MOOGLE "moguri". "The translators meant for Aeris to be Aerith it says so right here in the FF bible. Moogle? What's that? Clearly it's Moguri." e: Translator note: change moguri to Mowgli it's a reference to Jungle Book. al-azad fucked around with this message at 07:48 on Feb 16, 2015 |
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Feb 16, 2015 07:43
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1:1 translators confuse me so much, like, I wonder if they even understand what localization is. Even the most basic writing courses teach this sorta stuff. Then again... Esty Dee exists. Ugh... The White Dragon posted:Dog Obgyn mentioned Tactics Ogre, and as weird of a suggestion as it might be, you might dig Ogre Battle. Thanks a ton for this, for years I was trying to remember "That one RPG that is isometric during battles and has your protagonist shoot lightning and also there are pumpkins". I played it when I was 10 or something and confused it with Tactics Ogre for so long without being able to find it. HGH fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Feb 16, 2015 |
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Feb 16, 2015 10:25
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Endorph posted:That's what I liked about Neverwinter Nights 2. Sure, it was mostly generic orc hunting garbage, but there's this really awesome beat at the start of act II where you're accused of a crime you didn't commit and your entire party is trying to get you off the hook. It's really the best part of the OC. The game doesn't get good again to MOTB, probably. I liked IWD, too, so I'm a SOZ apologist. gently caress, that's a lot of acronyms.
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Feb 16, 2015 10:59
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Just beat XIII-2, and that was the absolute perfect balance of "serious" and "hahahaha you have to be making GBS threads me" I wanted from the first game. That was amazing. Ending on one of my two leads dying and a moogle solemnly telling me "The Goddess is dead, kupo..." after every single part of the game warned my heroes YOU ARE loving UP SO BAD was fantastic. I wish the LR port was done, or even had a drat date. As-is, an email from nuuvem in my inbox + poor impulse control at 6AM after a full day and graveyard shift led to A Bad Decision.  It was either this or play the Millenium games, and I didn't think I wanted to do five lovely mini-RPGs when I could just go for the grandaddy of bad RPG Maker-alikes for a mere $3. edit: How the gently caress is this thing almost 3GB. claw game handjob fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Feb 16, 2015 |
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Feb 16, 2015 16:15
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DARKSEID DICK PICS posted:edit: How the gently caress is this thing almost 3GB. landfills increase in size over time
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