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With how long and passive EL games are going I'm kinda surprised Rekkles only is picking Graves, over something that scales better into the late game. Granted he knows more than I do on AD carry but it still surprises me.
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Feb 17, 2015 22:49
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I think most of Europe considers Graves to be the #1 AD Carry right now and worth picking over all others in almost all circumstances so that if it is open it is picked basically. I actually agree with Europeans on that. However, Koreans prefer Corki overwhelmingly over all others. Probably because he has the absolute fastest power spike in the game in that role.
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Feb 17, 2015 22:51
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Flipswitch posted:With how long and passive EL games are going I'm kinda surprised Rekkles only is picking Graves, over something that scales better into the late game. He picks Graves so he can ult from safely 50 teemos behind everyone and snipe kills & assists.
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Feb 17, 2015 22:51
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Jerkface posted:You guys know what should happen though, EL Alex Ich! I would actually watch and like Elementz if they picked up Alex Ich. 
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Feb 17, 2015 23:14
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I'm torn on Corki-Graves personally. Corki is obviously phenomenal as long as the game is (effectively) over in the first 30-35 minutes. Graves isn't an amazing laner, but he has burst that can completely turn around some weird early-mid/mid game situations that don't need picture perfect team fight positioning, just great ults at a very long range. It makes sense with how much the West is loving to play these hard engage-y supports and team comps. I've been swamped with a bunch of work, too much to follow everything that's going on, but I assume the  LCK doesn't go into the late games where Corki falls off into uselessness.Anyway, with with Kev1n making a vlog of becoming an Elements player I guess that can be confirmed right about now.
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Feb 17, 2015 23:20
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Actually nuts to El Alex Ich. If C9 is really holding tryouts like was rumored a few pages back (I think?) then give me C9 Alex Ich. I'm pretty sure he's one of the only mids in the world who could just slot in for Hai as a shotcaller and be reasonably expected to do well.
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Feb 17, 2015 23:27
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Ihki posted:I'm torn on Corki-Graves personally. Corki is obviously phenomenal as long as the game is (effectively) over in the first 30-35 minutes. Graves isn't an amazing laner, but he has burst that can completely turn around some weird early-mid/mid game situations that don't need picture perfect team fight positioning, just great ults at a very long range. It makes sense with how much the West is loving to play these hard engage-y supports and team comps. I've been swamped with a bunch of work, too much to follow everything that's going on, but I assume the Pray had an interesting build in one of the Corki games this weekend that went really late where he built muramana so he was doing insane damage per auto.
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Feb 17, 2015 23:28
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I'm surprised Muramana isn't more popular on Corki. 720 isn't a very big itemzation delay, and I feel that Corki really has trouble finding itemization after Triforce anyway. In addition, I'm pretty sure that Unlimited mana in lane would really change his dynamic.
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Feb 17, 2015 23:34
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NTT posted:I'm surprised Muramana isn't more popular on Corki. 720 isn't a very big itemzation delay, and I feel that Corki really has trouble finding itemization after Triforce anyway. In addition, I'm pretty sure that Unlimited mana in lane would really change his dynamic. You'll still get outscaled, but your power spike will be later?
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Feb 17, 2015 23:35
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Disinterested posted:You'll still get outscaled, but your power spike will be later? Muramana provides a pretty good late game presence actually! You shouldn't discount it. I don't know Corki's base mana values, but Muramana works really well with Triforce since the mana pool double dips for the active. This makes me want to try out my double sheen + manamune build on Corki now...
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Feb 17, 2015 23:36
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NTT posted:Muramana provides a pretty good late game presence actually! You shouldn't discount it. Yeah but you're still going to get outscaled by an autoattacker. It definitely makes your damage types even more magic-slanted though, so it could be good where you have a lot of AD. Teams pick Corki to poo poo damage in early sieges and drag fights, if he dumps the 700 gold for tear he loses a lot of that advantage.
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Feb 17, 2015 23:37
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Disinterested posted:Yeah but you're still going to get outscaled by an autoattacker. It definitely makes your damage types even more magic-slanted though, so it could be good where you have a lot of AD. What the gently caress are you talking about, Muramana gives AD, and the active gives you bonus physical damage. Tear will delay Corki's damage slightly early, but the extra mana it gives him to spam his abilities won't exactly cripple him.
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Feb 17, 2015 23:38
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NTT posted:What the gently caress are you talking about, Muramana gives AD, and the active gives you bonus physical damage. Oh, my bad, I thought it still gave magic for some reason. Ignore point on itemisation. Still makes no difference to the main point.
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Feb 17, 2015 23:38
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I think it would be fine in solo queue but not for the scenarios these teams play in. They need Corki to 1-item the Triforce as fast as possible and then take the entire map the moment that happens. That's the whole reason Corki is so popular. Literally as soon as he completes the Triforce in these games they are rushing Dragon, Inner Turrets, team fights, whatever they can find, and Corki wrecks any comparable champion at that point in the game.
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Feb 17, 2015 23:50
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Disinterested posted:Oh, my bad, I thought it still gave magic for some reason. Ignore point on itemisation. Still makes no difference to the main point. Corki's mana pool at 18 is around ~950, compared to Ezreal's 1076. With Triforce feeding into the Muramana, the active gives you about 120 bonus damage at full mana. With a Fist, that bonus damage climbs to 145. It's a nontrivial amount of bonus damage on hit, and Corki -is- severely gated by mana, especially after his last nerf to W. 937 base mana 200 Trinity Force 1000 Muramana 500 Fist That all combines to give you 2637 mana, which gives you a bonus 52 AD on the passive, giving the total AD for the slot 77. Compared to something like Infinity Edge and Bloodthirster, which sit at 80, that's pretty good! The active consumes 3% to deal 6% of your current mana, so the first attack would deal a whopping 156 bonus physical damage, obviously scaling down as you get lower in mana but certainly doesn't disappear. I don't know if you've ever seen an Ezreal Q and then and Ezreal Q with Muramana on, but the difference is pretty incredible. it's a -lot- of damage and just looking at the numbers I could totally see it becoming a relevant build. its curtains for Kevin fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Feb 18, 2015 |
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Feb 17, 2015 23:58
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Libertine posted:I think it would be fine in solo queue but not for the scenarios these teams play in. They need Corki to 1-item the Triforce as fast as possible and then take the entire map the moment that happens. That's the whole reason Corki is so popular. Literally as soon as he completes the Triforce in these games they are rushing Dragon, Inner Turrets, team fights, whatever they can find, and Corki wrecks any comparable champion at that point in the game. There's also the problem that unless you follow a highly regimented build (bork into IE into a whisper and more AD) Corki absolutely falls off a cliff later. The support structure for manamune really calls for a frosty fist but you can't swing it because then your rockets hit for jack and poo poo worth of damage and the only scaling they have is funneling more AD into them (the AP you get is a pittance and doesn't make up the loss). Corki's actually got pretty good endgame damage if he can build offensively, but in most pro games he just cannot afford it because he needs a banshees or QSS or whatever pretty early, and it takes a huge amount of time to farm up enough to turn that slot deficit around.
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Feb 18, 2015 00:06
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Double Sheen is bonkers Bond. You will never see anyone build that in competitive. I don't know why you build it or advocate it. Corki gets no power spike if he builds all that mana. He's not gated by mana if he's played correctly, and he's only Valking once per fight with it's Rank 1 cooldown anyways.
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Feb 18, 2015 00:09
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I have played 0 games of double sheen Corki, but I've played more games than I can count of double sheen Ez and I gotta say I really like the build man. Getting both the phage movement speed and the fist slow with a meaty sheen proc is really good.
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Feb 18, 2015 00:14
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He advocates double sheen because he's a giant doofus with awesome mechanics
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Feb 18, 2015 00:17
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It works at the elo I play at, it's not just pub stomping man 
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Feb 18, 2015 00:17
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Never ever ever ever listen to what high-level ADCs say unless they're regurgitating what their coaches or supports tell them
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Feb 18, 2015 00:20
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Feb 18, 2015 00:22
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If you were playing in Korea Bond the coaches would give you 1200 gold worth of lashes as soon as that second Sheen showed up in your inventory.
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Feb 18, 2015 00:25
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Yeah no it's still bad. I mean it might be better if you want to scale on Corki, but if you're trying to outscale on Corki in professional you just made a game-losing mistake. He doesn't have the advantages Ezreal has of being pretty much the only ADC able to 1v5. So you have to build something that gives DPS after triforce to continue snowballing with your absurd triforce power spike.
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Feb 18, 2015 00:26
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Ihki posted:I'm torn on Corki-Graves personally. Corki is obviously phenomenal as long as the game is (effectively) over in the first 30-35 minutes. Graves isn't an amazing laner, but he has burst that can completely turn around some weird early-mid/mid game situations that don't need picture perfect team fight positioning, just great ults at a very long range. It makes sense with how much the West is loving to play these hard engage-y supports and team comps. I've been swamped with a bunch of work, too much to follow everything that's going on, but I assume the Interesting. I thought people were choosing Graves because he laned pretty well against every pick used now in addition to the giant burst.
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Feb 18, 2015 00:45
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Hypocrisy posted:Interesting. I thought people were choosing Graves because he laned pretty well against every pick used now in addition to the giant burst. Especially with lane swaps where you can end up getting back into the 2v2 with a BF Sword so Graves will do bonkers damage with his full combo.
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Feb 18, 2015 00:47
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Jerkface posted:Pray had an interesting build in one of the Corki games this weekend that went really late where he built muramana so he was doing insane damage per auto. That sounded really cool but inexplicable so I tried taking a look at it: are you sure it wasn't Bang's Ezreal in SKT vs GET game 3 or something ? I couldn't find a Corki building Muramana digging through the week 4 & 5 VODs. Maybe I'm blind and stupid, wouldn't be the first time  e: Hypocrisy posted:Interesting. I thought people were choosing Graves because he laned pretty well against every pick used now in addition to the giant burst. Bot is easily my worst lane so perhaps I'm mistaken here in how I won't rate Graves' laning that highly, but I don't. He averages as OK, which I guess you're rightly saying, but he's far from dominant in lane. His wave clear is great for not getting in trouble in spots where many other ADCs get their tower pushed in. I feel this is much of why he manages early laning better than his auto attack range issues would imply. Yet whatever all that means, as said above: once he gets into the "gosh, this ult+dash+Buckshot does a lot of damage!" mode after that BF Sword, things start happening. With Ihki fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Feb 18, 2015 |
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Feb 18, 2015 00:47
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Ihki posted:That sounded really cool but inexplicable so I tried taking a look at it: are you sure it wasn't Bang's Ezreal in SKT vs GET game 3 or something ? I couldn't find a Corki building Muramana digging through the week 4 & 5 VODs. Maybe I'm blind and stupid, wouldn't be the first time I did the same thing and couldn't find it, maybe it was a different game I was looking at. I could have swore in some professional game this week a Corki had the muramana twinkle and was owning people. A blue side Corki because I recall the item being on the left. Or I just imagined a new innovation and a team should hire me to be their coach.
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Feb 18, 2015 00:53
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It's the little things that put Koreans so far ahead the other regions. GE Tigers vs SKT T1: Bengi just walks around a bunch of Kalista sentinels making it look safe to GE. Fantasy players: You almost certainly want to draft Kev1n who was the top-scoring player in his lane last season. By the way, the Fantasy thread has less than two full pages half-way through the split so you'll just have to deal with it next split, nerds. It's not getting enough posts once the season starts to need a whole thread and it's not anymore distracting than a derail about Piglet's attitude is. RealFoxy fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Feb 18, 2015 |
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Feb 18, 2015 02:26
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I actually had to hold back posts whining about people talking about fantasy this weekend. It's so dumb. What's dumb you ask? Both of those things.
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Feb 18, 2015 03:44
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I think switching out Wickd is a step in the right direction, though in many ways I'd say it's largely a small measure unless they fix how they make decisions while in the game. There have been comments from parts of the team that it's Froggen making a lot of the decisions, which works ok when they're ahead and completely falls apart when they're behind. It's possible to see this in almost all those types of games, as they suddenly go into super passive mode and wait for that mistake that they can capitalise on. Major problem is that against the better teams this just doesn't happen. C9 vs. Alliance at worlds is what I'd consider the quintessential example of this. I don't think Kevin can be a bad change, but there are many more changes that are required for Elements to become a world class team. Given that Froggen is the last vestiges of the CLG.eu team that I supported what feels like so long ago, I'm really hoping that at some points he manages to reach his goal. Edit: Oh, uhh... the idea that they're replacing Wickd because his aggressive playstyle doesn't fit with the passive way that Froggen and Rekkles play has to be false, please let it be false. Toq uote some guy on the reddit thread about it: quote:Oh thank God they are getting someone to match Froggin and Rekkles passive style, whenever I watch EL games I say to myself, "woah, this is way too exciting, these guys need to take it down a notch" Khaba fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Feb 18, 2015 |
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Feb 18, 2015 03:47
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The thing with replacing Wickd is that even if the replacement doesnt work that well it opens the door to more replacements. Wickd + Froggen was so entrenched in Froggen's career and the formation of Alliance that just admitting there is a problem and benching Wickd opens the door. EL is not going to be beholden to KEV1N. If a better top laner comes around it will be much easier to now dump KEV1N than it would have been if they were committed to making it work with Wickd.
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Feb 18, 2015 04:04
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I think they'd be better off with KEV3N instead. Don't want to spoil anything but lets just say if you see an adult man in LCS soon it might be someone you know....
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Feb 18, 2015 04:05
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Keven. Just. Keven posted:I think they'd be better off with KEV3N instead. Don't want to spoil anything but lets just say if you see an adult man in LCS soon it might be someone you know....
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Feb 18, 2015 04:09
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Keven. Just. Keven posted:I think they'd be better off with KEV3N instead. Don't want to spoil anything but lets just say if you see an adult man in LCS soon it might be someone you know.... If only... 
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Feb 18, 2015 04:16
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Benching Wickd is something that needed to happen, but it didn't need to happen more than fixing a bad attitude towards coaches and other staff.
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Feb 18, 2015 05:38
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Failboattootoot posted:Benching Wickd is something that needed to happen, but it didn't need to happen more than fixing a bad attitude towards coaches and other staff. Wickd was apparently a huge contributor to said attitude so this may be a 2 for 1 situation.
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Feb 18, 2015 05:59
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Flameingblack posted:It's the little things that put Koreans so far ahead the other regions. I love the commentators on that game while they watched that.They actually started calling it metal gear solid and apologising for calling Bang terrible. Also, part of me wishes I could play Fantasy but I can't... I literally have no friends who play League.
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Feb 18, 2015 06:59
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I have two friends who play League, so I did the next best thing and joined a fantasy league with random goons. Try it! It's great!
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Feb 18, 2015 07:23
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Elements is a poo poo show:Froggen posted:Is it perhaps a weakness for you sometimes, to play the games so slowly? I just can't stand them.
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Feb 18, 2015 14:27
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