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gradenko_2000 posted:I was thinking about the variant rule in the DMG for replacing the proficiency bonus with proficiency dice: roll a d4 instead of adding +2 to your roll, roll a d6 instead of a +3, a d8 instead of a +4, a d10 instead of a +5 and a d12 instead of a +6. 13th Age did/does this, pretty much.
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# ? Feb 18, 2015 17:51 |
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# ? May 14, 2024 19:45 |
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If you want to add that, why not stick it on the to-hit roll? That way there aren't a ton more dice. So with a +2 proficency, roll a 19 or a 20 and you get your bonus thingy. With +6, 15-20.
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# ? Feb 18, 2015 18:11 |
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PurpleXVI posted:By this description it sounds like a great fix for some of the complaints I'm reading about the Champion(they only get to do one thing), by giving them some of the Battle Master's tricks. Hell, I think all Fighters, Rangers, Paladins, Rogues and Monks should have something analogous to maneuvers, with their archetype deciding their additional abilities, maybe some special maneuvers for their archetype only, and what sort of dice/how many dice they got to toss around. In that playtest all classes except Wizard got the Dice, though Cleric got a reduced progression. Only the Fighter and Monk actually could use them for maneuvers without a feat though. Also at the time classes didn't get extra attacks when they leveled. Rogues got something different, using the Skill Die that was used at the time instead of Proficiency.
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# ? Feb 18, 2015 18:12 |
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Tunicate posted:If you want to add that, why not stick it on the to-hit roll? That way there aren't a ton more dice. The main issue with systems like this is that there's never any way for the player to have any input in the process. Did you really want to use one of your cool maneuvers against that big gnarly ogre? Sorry, dice say no. Oh, a pathetic kobold? Yeah, here you go, you can use your stuff on that, sure. Like, bonuses on good dice rolls are nice and all but they're also completely at the mercy of the dice, and even with Advantage in play I know that personally I would rather have maneuvers and abilities that I have some kind of control over so I'm actually able to go "woah, this is a big threat, good thing I'm a badass fighter and can do something about this" as opposed to "welp, hope the dice don't gently caress me over again I guess."
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# ? Feb 18, 2015 20:26 |
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Honestly, anything cool a fighter can do should be able to be done every single round, unless you want to go back to the 4e style AEDU. At that point you're back to balancing the classes around said powers and you have an entirely different game. If a fighter has 2 attacks a round and wants to parry with one of them and called shot a leg with the other, fine. Want to try two shield bashes? Go nuts.
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# ? Feb 18, 2015 20:31 |
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mastershakeman posted:If a fighter has 2 attacks a round and wants to parry with one of them and called shot a leg with the other, fine. Want to try two shield bashes? Go nuts. I'm gonna dual-wield shields, wear full plate and call myself "The Turtle." All bashing, all day. But at any rate, I agree, if there should be any limit, it should be some consumable resource of some sort, "Stamina" or something.
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# ? Feb 18, 2015 20:33 |
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In theory you could imagine that Martial Dice are supposed to be a sort of "stamina" mechanic (of course you could just as easily do that with 4E's exploits if you wanted) but the problem is A). the things that Martial Dice unlock for Fighters are generally underwhelming and B). the refresh rate on them is kind of garbage too.
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# ? Feb 18, 2015 20:38 |
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Once you start dealing with stamina you have to ask how the heck the guy in full plate just walked for 4 hours, and that leads to 'haha you've been surprise attacked and are not wearing your armor.'
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# ? Feb 18, 2015 20:41 |
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mastershakeman posted:Once you start dealing with stamina you have to ask how the heck the guy in full plate just walked for 4 hours, and that leads to 'haha you've been surprise attacked and are not wearing your armor.' The game already accounts for this with its encumbrance rules anyway; plate armor in game is 65 lbs, anyone wearing it has minimum 225 lb capacity (even if they don't meet this, it's just a speed penalty) for wearing/carrying poo poo and functioning normally while doing so. Even if for some reason you started applying strict, real-world physics to this fantasy universe, it's not that big a deal for actual real people to wear, especially if they're trained to wear it.
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# ? Feb 18, 2015 21:01 |
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Also every "realistic" take on heavy armor just has the effect of weakening melee classes even more while leaving spellcasters alone, essentially boosting them in power even further. Heavy armor isn't that powerful to begin with. Making it cost a million gold and require a custom smithy to fit it, or taking 13 hours to put on, or slowing walking speed, just makes fighting classes weaker for no reason. It also ignores the fact that the real deadly stuff (being charmed, exploded, teleported into the center of the earth, etc) doesnt even care about ac anyway, and spellcasters normally have better saves too.
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# ? Feb 18, 2015 21:11 |
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It's telling that almost every time someone published a supplement of "expanded martial options/rules" about half of them are essentially things that make martial characters' lives even harder (detailed stamina loss and encumbrance systems, critical miss tables, training times where there didn't used to be any before, now you can lose limbs/eyes instead of just your hitpoints, etc).
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# ? Feb 18, 2015 21:14 |
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Clearly we need to just straight up port over Tzeentch's Curse from WHFRP and give the Casters the fun of exploding if they roll doubles on a spell, for once.
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# ? Feb 18, 2015 21:17 |
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mastershakeman posted:Once you start dealing with stamina you have to ask how the heck the guy in full plate just walked for 4 hours, and that leads to 'haha you've been surprise attacked and are not wearing your armor.' The idea isn't to simulate ACTUAL stamina, it's just a name for their Generic Martial Resource, that allows them to have some limited-use hefty powers they can't spam literally EVERY round once they run out.
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# ? Feb 18, 2015 21:21 |
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Kai Tave posted:It's telling that almost every time someone published a supplement of "expanded martial options/rules" about half of them are essentially things that make martial characters' lives even harder (detailed stamina loss and encumbrance systems, critical miss tables, training times where there didn't used to be any before, now you can lose limbs/eyes instead of just your hitpoints, etc). Meanwhile, supplements for spellcasting characters always give them more toys. More spells, more prestige classes, more schools of magic, more spells, more magic items, more subsystems, more spells, more feats, and more spells!
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# ? Feb 18, 2015 21:21 |
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I've also seen injury systems that penalize spellcasters more heavily than nonspellcasters. Like, get a broken jaw? No spells with vocal components for you, but you can still swing a sword just fine. Doesn't really take away from the fact that all you can do to a spellcaster is reduce his options to those of a fighting man, though. Tunicate fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Feb 18, 2015 |
# ? Feb 18, 2015 21:28 |
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mastershakeman posted:Once you start dealing with stamina you have to ask how the heck the guy in full plate just walked for 4 hours, and that leads to 'haha you've been surprise attacked and are not wearing your armor.' You actually don't because full plate wasn't like a trillion pounds or whatever, and it was built to fit over your whole body rather then rest the weight in any one specific place. Kadath posted:Also every "realistic" take on heavy armor just has the effect of weakening melee classes even more while leaving spellcasters alone, essentially boosting them in power even further. Heavy armor isn't that powerful to begin with. Making it cost a million gold and require a custom smithy to fit it, or taking 13 hours to put on, or slowing walking speed, just makes fighting classes weaker for no reason. It also ignores the fact that the real deadly stuff (being charmed, exploded, teleported into the center of the earth, etc) doesnt even care about ac anyway, and spellcasters normally have better saves too. The other problem is that it's never actually realistic, it's just built to confirm to the writer's pre-existing beliefs. Remember that at one point, the hardest thing to do in 5e, bar none, was climb a rope. You almost immediately enter Catching Your Mouse territory.
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# ? Feb 18, 2015 21:39 |
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Kai Tave posted:In theory you could imagine that Martial Dice are supposed to be a sort of "stamina" mechanic (of course you could just as easily do that with 4E's exploits if you wanted) but the problem is A). the things that Martial Dice unlock for Fighters are generally underwhelming and B). the refresh rate on them is kind of garbage too. Well the Martial Damage Dice I referenced, from an earlier playtest, actually refreshed per TURN. So you would have them on your turn, and on the enemy's. Of course this did mean that you could basically spam your maneuvers, or just use them for the damage boost.
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# ? Feb 19, 2015 00:28 |
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Does anyone have advice for running a druid in combat? I'm playing a level 8 (now 9) druid of the coast in a campaign where we're operating as a mage squad in a mercenary army. That means combat tends to be front-loaded with damage (the party is a wizard, sorcerer, warlock, plus me), and I'm finding that I'm severely limited by concentration at basically every spell level. Fluff-wise, my DM isn't a huge fan of constant shapeshifting, so I've been trying to keep that to a minimum, at least early on in a given combat. My current plan has been running one of: summon animals (L3), summon elementals (L4), summon fey (L4), or call lightning (L3), then using cantrips and/or melee attacks, with the occasional thunderwave or blight, the rest of the time. Are there hidden non-concentration gems I'm not seeing in my spell list? Or should I be basically just using one or two spells per combat (depending on whether or not my concentration gets breached) and thorn whip/produce flame/melee stab with a lovely spear the rest of the time? Granted, my summons are pretty fantastic, and give me lots of room for fluffy explanation of where the different snakes/cockroaches/whatever are growing and coming up out of sewage, but I'm not sure if I'm missing something.
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# ? Feb 19, 2015 00:45 |
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I would not be opposed to fighters getting a per-turn refresh of SOMETHING, even if it's just so they can OA the gently caress out of everything that tries to walk past them.
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# ? Feb 19, 2015 00:48 |
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Make sure to use your Woodlands Beings spell to conjure up some pixies for yet more spells.
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# ? Feb 19, 2015 00:56 |
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Ryuujin posted:Well the Martial Damage Dice I referenced, from an earlier playtest, actually refreshed per TURN. So you would have them on your turn, and on the enemy's. Of course this did mean that you could basically spam your maneuvers, or just use them for the damage boost. That's actually kind of a neat function, once you get more than one attack, it means that you can chain together different combos each turn. Like, say, a trip of some sort, followed up by a big power attack now your enemy is prone and has an AC penalty that lets you hit despite the attack penalty on your gently caress I'M UP GOOD strike. Some sort of crippling/dazing/distracting strike on a wizard's bodyguard to prevent him making OA's while you move past him and blow the rest of your combo on stopping the mage's spell. Why the hell didn't they stick with the playtest? It sounds way better than what we got.
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# ? Feb 19, 2015 02:11 |
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PurpleXVI posted:Why the hell didn't they stick with the playtest? A lot of people on the playtest forums complained loudly and unceasingly about fighters that were both effective and interesting to play. The design team apparently though that these people were worth listening to. You have to understand that most of the feedback questions during the playtest were phrased so badly that often two people who hated a thing for opposite reasons would be answering the Y/N or 1-10 questions the same, with no way of providing reasons for their answers. Example: "On a 1-10 scale, how satisfied are you with fighter ability choices?" with just some buttons to click and nowhere to say why you were unhappy (which could just as easily be "too many ability choices" or "not enough ability choices"). Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Feb 19, 2015 |
# ? Feb 19, 2015 02:23 |
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ProfessorCirno posted:Remember that at one point, the hardest thing to do in 5e, bar none, was climb a rope. You almost immediately enter Catching Your Mouse territory. I would like to hear more about rope climbing and catching mice.
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# ? Feb 19, 2015 02:41 |
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Gharbad the Weak posted:catching mice. "Catching your mouse" is a wonderful way to describe the school of game design that says if something is hard for the designer, it should be hard for characters in the game. You know, stuff like dangling your computer mouse from your wrist and flicking it back into your hand, or climbing a rope in gym class, or walking at your normal pace while wearing armor that's around the weight of an overnight pack, or only being able to use your shield on the side you're holding it. Toph Bei Fong posted:Less effort than Jason "Mouse Tied to My Hand" Buhlman, folks. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Feb 19, 2015 |
# ? Feb 19, 2015 03:16 |
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I saw a documentary once where some super-elite prison guards bumrushed and incapacitated a violent prisoner. One second the guy was in his cell menacing everyone, and then in a blink he was handcuffed under a pile of armored guards. That's what martial characters needed to be. The liche starts to cast a thing? No, he's handcuffed on the ground and gagged with my baton. As a free reaction. AlphaDog posted:Example: "On a 1-10 scale, how satisfied are you with fighter ability choices?" with just some buttons to click and nowhere to say why you were unhappy (which could just as easily be "too many ability choices" or "not enough ability choices"). Without meaningful information beyond "people aren't happy with X," I think they turned to their dysfunctional forum's angriest posts about X for clarification.
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# ? Feb 19, 2015 03:51 |
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D&D Next by way of Eoris Essence:
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# ? Feb 19, 2015 04:08 |
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Holy poo poo. Did you make that yourself? Where did this magnificent creation come from?
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# ? Feb 19, 2015 04:36 |
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Kai Tave posted:Holy poo poo. I just saw it on some guy's reddit post
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# ? Feb 19, 2015 04:48 |
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The best part of that sheet, besides all of it, is how it illustrates how lopsided the importance of the six classic stats are in this edition. Things like Dexterity and Intelligence play into all these skills and other factors...and then you have Strength and Constitution with like one, maybe two things attached to them.
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# ? Feb 19, 2015 04:53 |
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Still having to track cp, sp and gp separately is also so D&D it hurts.
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# ? Feb 19, 2015 04:58 |
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That character sheet is the neatest thing I've seen out of Next yet. Kai Tave posted:The best part of that sheet, besides all of it, is how it illustrates how lopsided the importance of the six classic stats are in this edition. Things like Dexterity and Intelligence play into all these skills and other factors...and then you have Strength and Constitution with like one, maybe two things attached to them. I wouldn't call that the best part, but yeah.
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# ? Feb 19, 2015 05:14 |
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Kai Tave posted:The best part of that sheet, besides all of it, is how it illustrates how lopsided the importance of the six classic stats are in this edition. Things like Dexterity and Intelligence play into all these skills and other factors...and then you have Strength and Constitution with like one, maybe two things attached to them. It's not even totally accurate, because DEX can be used for melee with Finesse weapons, and STR is used for thrown weapons.
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# ? Feb 19, 2015 05:18 |
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gradenko_2000 posted:Still having to track cp, sp and gp separately is also so D&D it hurts. What, no electrum?
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# ? Feb 19, 2015 05:52 |
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DalaranJ posted:What, no electrum? gently caress electrum. Why is there a half-gold piece when the other 4 denominations are a decimal currency system?
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# ? Feb 19, 2015 16:09 |
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So, I decided to sit down and try to make a fighter archetype for 4E-style defenders that fit somewhat with 5E. I kind of went overboard on just making it good, so there's a lot going on here and it might not actually be a good fit or balanced or make enough sense for people to play.. Idk, tell me what you think.quote:Defender 30.5 Days fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Feb 19, 2015 |
# ? Feb 19, 2015 17:34 |
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mastershakeman posted:Once you start dealing with stamina you have to ask how the heck the guy in full plate just walked for 4 hours, and that leads to 'haha you've been surprise attacked and are not wearing your armor.'
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# ? Feb 19, 2015 18:45 |
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For those curious about what the Maneuvers were like for the 12/17/12 Playtest, that I had asked about converting that fighter's stuff into an Archetype, here are a few examples: Bull Rush[ You throw yourself into a full-‐fledged shove, driving your opponent across the battlefield. Effect: As an action, you can spend martial damage dice to push a creature that is your size or smaller away from you. Choose a creature within 5 feet of you. For each martial damage die you spend, you push the creature 5 feet away from you, and you move along with the creature along the same path. Yes that means you can eventually just use an action and expend your 6 dice to push a creature 30 feet, no save. This ability is actually inferior to what the Monk gets, if I remember correctly. Still compare that to what the current Maneuver a fighter can get is like. Bull Rush is available to any one who can get Maneuvers. The next one, Composed Attack, is a Fighter Maneuver. Composed Attack You calm your mind and focus your effort on overcoming whatever disadvantages would cause your attack to miss. Effect: When you make an attack with disadvantage, you can spend a martial damage die to offset the disadvantage. Roll that die, and add the result to the lower d20 roll. This total cannot exceed the higher die roll. If you spend two martial damage dice, you don’t suffer disadvantage on the attack. Glancing Blow Even when you miss with an attack, you can manipulate your weapon to deliver a glancing blow. Effect: When you miss a target with a melee weapon attack but your attack result is a 10 or higher, you can spend martial damage dice to turn the miss into a glancing blow, which is not treated as a hit. Roll all the martial damage dice you spend. The target takes damage equal to the highest die result alone. The damage is of the weapon’s damage type, but it delivers no additional effect associated with the weapon or the attack. Speaking of what Monks get: Hurricane Strike Your extensive training in the martial arts allows you to hurl your enemy away from you. Effect: As an action, you can spend one, two or three martial damage dice to hurl an enemy your size or smaller away from you. Make an unarmed melee attack. If the attack hits, it deals damage as normal, and the target must succeed on a Strength saving throw. If the creature fails its save, the effect depends on the number of dice you spent. If you spent one die, the creature is knocked prone and pushed up to 10 feet in a straight line away from you. If you spent two dice, you can magically push a creature that is up to one size larger than you, and the push distance can be up to 30 feet. If you spent three dice, you can magically push a creature that is up to two sizes larger than you, and the push distance can be up to 60 feet. So it is combined with an attack, unlike Bull Rush, and costs fewer dice for a better result. That said unlike Bull Rush it does have a save. Shove Away Your attack drives your opponent away from you, sending them reeling. Effect: When you hit a creature that is your size or smaller with a melee weapon attack, you can spend one martial damage die to push that creature 5 feet away from you. If you instead spend two martial damage dice, you can use this maneuver when attacking a creature that is one size larger than you. And the Fighter version. Somewhere between Bull Rush and Hurricane Strike. Like the Monk's version it is on an attack, and like the general Bull Rush it has no save. However it pushes less than either, well once you have multiple dice at least. It can push a large creature, which Bull Rush can't. At the time classes didn't gain extra attacks, so some of the Maneuvers allowed spending MDD to make extra attacks, such as Whirlwind to make one against all adjacent enemies, or Volley to attack all enemies in a 10 ft radius. Monk's got Flurry which let them spend up to 2 dice to make extra attacks, that could actually be against the same target. There were various Maneuvers to reduce damage by rolling dice. The Monk's speed bonus was a Maneuver that had you roll your dice and the highest number that came up on a die would be multiplied by 5', so maxing out at +30' on a good roll. Spending two dice on that also added the bonus of being able to walk along vertical surfaces during the movement, and three dice adds over water. Trip uses one to three dice, on a hit just knocks down the target, second die lets it work on one size larger than you, and two dice does the same and makes it take all movement to stand up. Spring Attack lets you make an attack then move 10 feet without provoking Opportunity Attacks. There are Maneuvers to add accuracy, ignore cover, or add 5' to your attack.
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# ? Feb 19, 2015 19:22 |
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Moinkmaster posted:gently caress electrum. Why is there a half-gold piece when the other 4 denominations are a decimal currency system? Greyhawk's Electrum Lucky is very gygaxian, please do not disparage it. Real answer is because Electrum was used in early coinage, a few hundred years before gold was.
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# ? Feb 20, 2015 00:13 |
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I think it's been pointed out before, but it's just now dawning on me how badly I hosed up making an Eldritch Knight instead of Literally Any Other Way of Doing That. Just from a layman's analysis, Abjuration Wizard 8/Fighter 12, Draconic Sorcerer 8/Fighter 12, and Valor Bard 19/Fighter 1 are all so much obviously better it's ridiculous. I should have used more Player Skill.
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# ? Feb 20, 2015 08:18 |
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# ? May 14, 2024 19:45 |
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There is a tried and true solution to your lack of foresight that will work in the majority of groups: perform increasingly reckless stunts until you die, and then reroll as something better. If by some miracle you fail to die, then maybe you're badass enough that it doesn't matter. Or you're severely lacking in player skill and should take some remedial courses in risk mismanagement.
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# ? Feb 20, 2015 08:22 |