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Taco Box posted:I can't be that good with money, one of my debts is a car payment on a MINI cooper for my wife Yeah we get it you're better than all the BFC superstar. Here's a pat on the back.
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Feb 19, 2015 15:22
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Renegret posted:I know a guy who actually made money one summer selling cutco knives door to door. Cutco may be scammy and exploitative, but it's not MLM. You're actually expected to sell product and you don't have a downline to recruit people for (I guess that makes it single-level marketing). Now for another MLM story. My wife briefly had a salaried job in the corporate office of a retail energy MLM (Ambit Energy). I remember looking over the numbers they showcased on their website and found that the average "Consultant" of theirs brings on a grand total of one new customer (not including themselves).
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Feb 19, 2015 15:35
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You can be bad with money at most things but so long as you are good with money about cars and houses you will be okay. Conversely however a bad with money decision about either of those can destroy your finances and life.
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Feb 19, 2015 18:10
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Powerlurker posted:Cutco may be scammy and exploitative, but it's not MLM. You're actually expected to sell product and you don't have a downline to recruit people for (I guess that makes it single-level marketing). I did Cutco for about a month back when I was 18. I picked up on its scamminess quickly, but my parents forced me to keep doing it for a few weeks because they really wanted me to have a "job." Cutco doesn't require you to buy stock to resell. Your customers just place orders through a catalog with you as a middleman. You do need to buy a demo set of knives to use during your sales pitch, but you buy them at cost or close to it. They're good knives too. My demo set is still going strong after 12 years. They're just overpriced at retail. While Cutco has a lot of scummy elements surrounding it, product quality isn't one of them. The guy heading my office was the definition of MLM scam artist, and he was drat good at his job. He came off as a super friendly, enthusiastic and all around pleasant individual, but looking back on it all it's easy to see what was actually going on. His one and only goal was pulling more people into Cutco. The MLM underpinnings of the organization probably become more pronounced the higher you get in it. As a Cutco salesman no one buys your big ticket items because they're clearly overpriced. But family friends will buy a single knife or kitchen tool as a way to "help you out." I'm pretty sure that Cutco is built around exploiting this fact. Train 20 naive individuals at once in a cheap to run group session. They all run out and sell a few items each to family friends. Maybe a couple get lucky and sell some big ticket items. Either way, every sale has a high margin for the company. None of the salesmen make any real money, so they quit once they churn through all of their family and friends. Then a new group of naive 18 year olds is recruited, and the cycle repeats.
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Feb 19, 2015 18:20
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Kefit posted:I did Cutco for about a month back when I was 18. I picked up on its scamminess quickly, but my parents forced me to keep doing it for a few weeks because they really wanted me to have a "job." I had a part-time summer gig after I got out of college and was looking for a real job. It was a face-to-face sales job pitching DirecTV to people in Walmart, and it was honestly one of the worst experiences of my life. I made about 8 appointments for people to have it installed, but I never actually made a commission off of it and was eventually stiffed out of a half month's pay. I quit as soon as I landed a full time salaried position in Atlanta and to this day I advocate that anybody willing to try doing sales for family/friends or in a face-to-face role like I was should just go all-in and try for a sales position at a real company.
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Feb 19, 2015 18:30
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Taco Box posted:I can't be that good with money, one of my debts is a car payment on a MINI cooper for my wife Yeah you couldn't afford those things and I'm assuming the payments on the mini are a decent chunk of your debt servicing. You might want to eat vegan for a while.
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Feb 19, 2015 19:27
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Kefit posted:Cutco doesn't require you to buy stock to resell. Your customers just place orders through a catalog with you as a middleman. You do need to buy a demo set of knives to use during your sales pitch, but you buy them at cost or close to it. My high school friend sold Cutco knives to my parents over 20 years now and we still use them. I always go for the French knife when I cook at their place because I like how the handle feels. Although I bought a 7-piece set of Henckels Four Star knives in 2012 which I haven't removed from their box yet because I keep living with roommates which I don't trust with nice knives. Bad with money.
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Feb 19, 2015 19:51
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So the company I work for offers 6% retirement matching as well as an automatic 4% contribution once a year if you contribute AT ALL. One of my coworkers has been here for 3 years and has yet to contribute a cent, arguing that RSPs (Canadian 401ks) are a scam since you cannot access them when you're young, and "There's better returns in housing". I should note that she worked camp jobs, pulling over a hundred grand annually so that's about 30K abandoned in all. Thankfully she's only in her mid 20s but refused to listen to reason.
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Feb 19, 2015 20:25
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Can you take out of RSPs with a penalty ala 401k? If so, she could literally contribute a dollar and get free money for it in that case, how could one not see that?
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Feb 19, 2015 20:30
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Can you take out of RSPs with a penalty ala 401k? If so, she could literally contribute a dollar and get free money for it in that case, how could one not see that? Her family told her property is the #1 priority and she's sticking to her guns. It also makes me realize she could contribute 0.1% (an option for us) and get that 4%. Urrrgh.
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Feb 19, 2015 20:32
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Mantle posted:Although I bought a 7-piece set of Henckels Four Star knives in 2012 which I haven't removed from their box yet because I keep living with roommates which I don't trust with nice knives. Bad with money. 100% Good With Money. Don't trust anyone to handle your best poo poo. I cringe every time my dad cuts cheese with my ceramic knife.
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Feb 19, 2015 20:33
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Wilhelm posted:Her family told her property is the #1 priority and she's sticking to her guns. It also makes me realize she could contribute 0.1% (an option for us) and get that 4%. Urrrgh. Hmm yes this has played out so well for so many people recently.
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Feb 19, 2015 20:35
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Wilhelm posted:Her family told her property is the #1 priority and she's sticking to her guns. It also makes me realize she could contribute 0.1% (an option for us) and get that 4%. Urrrgh. I would ask her what property has a 260% guaranteed return on investment, without the money even touching the stock market. I can't believe anyone would turn down that high of a match and literally free money on top of that.
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Feb 19, 2015 20:37
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Also ask her if she knows how much you'll pay in maintenance on a 300k home over 30 years (a lot). I'd imagine even in the old days you wouldn't make that big a profit on real estate when you lived in it longterm (thus consuming the dividend). Yeah maybe your house will double in value but you might spend almost that much maintaining it. Renting it out is a different story. Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Feb 19, 2015 |
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Feb 19, 2015 20:40
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Wilhelm posted:Her family told her property is the #1 priority and she's sticking to her guns. It also makes me realize she could contribute 0.1% (an option for us) and get that 4%. Urrrgh. Clearly that 0.1% will break the bank for her. People literally can't see the value in it because they don't understand. For quite a while I didn't contribute to a retirement scheme but I was starting my business and actually needed every dollar. If someone is employed it's a completely different situation as you know when money will be coming in.
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Feb 19, 2015 20:48
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Taco Box posted:I can't be that good with money, one of my debts is a car payment on a MINI cooper for my wife I'm on the fence with good or bad with money. Will need pics of the wife with the leggings to see if they were in fact good with money or bad with money decision. Same for the Mini. Bad with money: People calling in to "splurge" on insurance by getting super high limits on their policies but only paying monthly because they don't want to sue up their new found tax return wealth. Its like I am talking to a brick wall when I talk about month #4's payment. Incoming cancellations!
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Feb 19, 2015 20:58
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Nail Rat posted:Also ask her if she knows how much you'll pay in maintenance on a 300k home over 30 years (a lot). Yeah people don't really think much past the difference between how much they bought a property for and how much they sold it for is "profit", without looking at inflation, taxes, insurance, realtor fees, closing costs, and annual maintenance - and that's for a house you own and don't have to pay mortgage interest on. Taking that all into account houses will break even, at best, unless they got extremely lucky and bought during a period of historic lows and sold during a bubble.
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Feb 19, 2015 21:09
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Can you take out of RSPs with a penalty ala 401k? If so, she could literally contribute a dollar and get free money for it in that case, how could one not see that? It really is being terrible with money. While most people are always told/hear don't take money of out your RSP until you retire, they never go beyond that and find out why. There are two things that make it not a great idea. 1) Once you take money out, you don't get that contribution room back. 2) Any money you take out is added to your income for that year and essentially taxed at the highest tax bracket you reach. There is a withholding tax you pay when you take money out of your RSP early, but this is strictly to cover the income tax you'll be paying on that money taken out. It is very much like your income tax deductions on your paychecks. Someone would say the third bad thing is it becoming a habit and you don't get that compounding tax-deferred gains. It gets far more complicated if you try to over contribute to take advantage of matches. The CRA does not appreciate that and nails you with paperwork/fee's.
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Feb 19, 2015 21:30
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Celador posted:Yeah people don't really think much past the difference between how much they bought a property for and how much they sold it for is "profit", without looking at inflation, taxes, insurance, realtor fees, closing costs, and annual maintenance - and that's for a house you own and don't have to pay mortgage interest on. Taking that all into account houses will break even, at best, unless they got extremely lucky and bought during a period of historic lows and sold during a bubble. But that's offset by the fact that you aren't paying any rent on the house.
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Feb 19, 2015 21:32
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Not a Children posted:Also, does it not enter his mind that boat docks come with an enormous backend expense: A boat? re: MLM stuff, a family member just got into ACN stuff. He's actually got a really good salesman personality but is too kind-hearted to make a killing off of the recruiting side of things (which is how you make money). Everybody always says "get a sales job outside of MLM" but what kinds of jobs are actually out there for sales people right now? He used to sell auto parts and his business shut down because some big box auto store started one-hour shipping and that was the end of things. He's in Riverside/San Bernadino, if anyone has any ideas. I love the guy and don't want him to get suckered, but I have nothing else to offer =/
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Feb 19, 2015 22:08
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I would suggest he look at any larger, or common business/industry in the area that relies on suppliers, then look for inside/outside sales jobs at those suppliers. Inside sales is a common starting place, but outside is where you can make real money.
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Feb 19, 2015 22:16
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Golluk posted:It really is being terrible with money. While most people are always told/hear don't take money of out your RSP until you retire, they never go beyond that and find out why. There are two things that make it not a great idea. Yeah my point was just that, even if for some inane reason the person insisted they need the money now, they could still profit by taking the huge 4% match with a tiny contribution, and still profit despite any penalties. I just needed to know if you were even allowed to take the money in any sense - obviously not a good idea.
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Feb 19, 2015 22:18
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Series DD Funding posted:But that's offset by the fact that you aren't paying any rent on the house. This is a strawman because the rent savings is so minuscule compared to the other costs of home ownership. You can't just ignore the opportunity cost of tying up several hundred thousand dollars in a house instead of having that money in market.
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Feb 19, 2015 22:38
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Mantle posted:This is a strawman because the rent savings is so minuscule compared to the other costs of home ownership. You can't just ignore the opportunity cost of tying up several hundred thousand dollars in a house instead of having that money in market. Exactly. It's the same way leasing a car is basically free compared to owning one.
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Feb 19, 2015 22:42
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Mantle posted:This is a strawman because the rent savings is so minuscule compared to the other costs of home ownership. You can't just ignore the opportunity cost of tying up several hundred thousand dollars in a house instead of having that money in market. In fact I just posted a similar thing in the newbie finance thread. People talk about not paying rent on a house. That's great if you can buy a house outright, however pretty much everyone gets a mortgage and the interest cost is the rent replacement. If you save a lot and put down 20%+ deposit you may even get your interest below rental costs (then cross your fingers you don't have any expensive maintenance to do).
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Feb 19, 2015 22:43
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Devian666 posted:In fact I just posted a similar thing in the newbie finance thread. People talk about not paying rent on a house. That's great if you can buy a house outright, however pretty much everyone gets a mortgage and the interest cost is the rent replacement. If you save a lot and put down 20%+ deposit you may even get your interest below rental costs (then cross your fingers you don't have any expensive maintenance to do). Depending on where you live rent can be artificially inflated. 25% of the population of my town is college students. Going from renting to buying (with a 5% dp) will save us $200 per month (yes that includes property taxes, insurance etc) and we are going from an 800sqft house to a 1200 sqft house that is much nicer. I think that's why it's so important to know your market rather than just rely on some prevailing wisdom.
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Feb 19, 2015 23:58
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Leroy Diplowski posted:Depending on where you live rent can be artificially inflated. 25% of the population of my town is college students. Going from renting to buying (with a 5% dp) will save us $200 per month (yes that includes property taxes, insurance etc) and we are going from an 800sqft house to a 1200 sqft house that is much nicer. I think that's why it's so important to know your market rather than just rely on some prevailing wisdom. Do you define cheaper in terms of monthly cash flow or in terms of gain in net worth?
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Feb 20, 2015 00:06
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Leroy Diplowski posted:Depending on where you live rent can be artificially inflated. 25% of the population of my town is college students. Going from renting to buying (with a 5% dp) will save us $200 per month (yes that includes property taxes, insurance etc) and we are going from an 800sqft house to a 1200 sqft house that is much nicer. I think that's why it's so important to know your market rather than just rely on some prevailing wisdom. I think college towns are really the exception, especially now with very inflated rents due to the flood of student loan money.
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Feb 20, 2015 00:09
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Blinkman987 posted:I think the issue there is that people are tithing while broke. I don't speak with God, but I have a feeling he/she/it doesn't mind if people forego putting money into the collection plate if they're financially struggling. Like, he's not going to bounce you from the good list if he's not getting a taste. As I understand, that's what most churches actually preach - give what you can when you can, and don't feel bad if "what you can" isn't much. The only groups I've heard of directly asking for a specific quantity of money are as follows: 1. Mormons 2. Scientologists 3. Televangelist con artists
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Feb 20, 2015 00:13
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Leroy Diplowski posted:Depending on where you live rent can be artificially inflated. 25% of the population of my town is college students. Going from renting to buying (with a 5% dp) will save us $200 per month (yes that includes property taxes, insurance etc) and we are going from an 800sqft house to a 1200 sqft house that is much nicer. I think that's why it's so important to know your market rather than just rely on some prevailing wisdom. Absolutely. That is the whole point the majority just buy a house because it's the thing to be done not because it makes any financial sense.
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Feb 20, 2015 00:34
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Devian666 posted:Absolutely. That is the whole point the majority just buy a house because it's the thing to be done not because it makes any financial sense. Or because there are other, non-financial benefits to buying a house that outweigh the financial hit.
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Feb 20, 2015 00:48
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kidhash posted:Or because there are other, non-financial benefits to buying a house that outweigh the financial hit. Top of my list is not having to deal with landlords.
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Feb 20, 2015 00:52
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Devian666 posted:Top of my list is not having to deal with landlords. homeowner's associations await my landlord is a faceless company that hires people to fix my appliances when they break, and hold packages for me, kind of hard to complain
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Feb 20, 2015 01:04
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Devian666 posted:Top of my list is not having to deal with landlords. I'm no fan of dealing with landlords, but for the most part I don't really ever have to deal with mine since I try to live in not-shithole places. I send the rent every month, they maintain the grounds and common spaces. Once in a blue moon I have to call about a broken appliance or whatever and it gets repaired/replaced within a couple of days with no stress on my end. I'm eventually looking forward to owning a home, but knowing full well that it will become a significant "hobby" to maintain. For now, mostly not having to worry about any of that poo poo is great and I'm investing the difference in time in myself, and the difference in money in the market.
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Feb 20, 2015 01:08
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Speaking of renting...Husband planning on moving out of Apt. and buying a 5th Wheel to avoid paying rent, and save $ for home posted:Combined, husband and I make $75k yearly. Both have full-time jobs. 1 child. We currently live in a (spacious) 1bd apartment in a very nice suburb. The apt. community offers "resort style living" - pool, gym, etc.. (i love it!) We pay roughly $1200 rent + utilities. They have even secured my current rent amount if I sign a lease for another year. My husband HATES it - the only reason being that he thinks we are throwing money away on rent. He is seriously considering buying a 5th wheel for $15k, parking it in his Mom's yard, so that we can stop renting and save money to buy a home. Is this a good plan? Would like some feedback here!
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Feb 20, 2015 01:17
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The best response to that.quote:Just go ahead and put that divorce attorney on retainer.
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Feb 20, 2015 01:21
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I just had a friend sign a $1400/month lease on $2800/month in net income with $700-$800 in straight bills (and this is before she comes off her parent's medical insurance in a few months) and no real expense budget or emergency fund. Much of her limited savings is going toward the deposit, first month's rent, and new furniture and other household necessities (she's moving out of her parent's house, so she doesn't have any of these things) and she has always been really free-spending (so, so, so many clothes, refuses to cook, etc.). She's also ignored every single bit of basic financial advice we've ever given her, which isn't surprising. It's going to be interesting to watch unfold. Senf fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Feb 20, 2015 |
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Feb 20, 2015 01:56
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Mantle posted:Do you define cheaper in terms of monthly cash flow or in terms of gain in net worth? I don't think I used the word 'cheaper'. We will see a decrease on expenses as long as $2,400 of home ownership expenses don't pop up per year, and an increase in net worth over time as long as we aren't somehow unable to pay our mortgage. Mr.Radar posted:Speaking of renting... I thought about buying a 5th wheel and a cheap piece of land to park it on. My wife gave me the 'no loving way' laugh. Laughing wives are not bad with money. Cockmaster posted:As I understand, that's what most churches actually preach - give what you can when you can, and don't feel bad if "what you can" isn't much. The only groups I've heard of directly asking for a specific quantity of money are as follows: The bible says give 10% bro. Do you want to be a sinner or what? Small business owners can be the worst with money. One of my acquaintances who owns a bar got a restaurant liquor license instead of a bar permit to save money. All was well and good until he got audited and they found out that he was not selling anywhere near the required amount of food. Now he has a stack of fines and can sell no booze. Whoops. Another local coffee shop owner did 1m in sales his first year in business. He was so excited that he went ahead and opened 3 other locations as well as a bar and restaurant all on a ludicrous amount of credit which he used his house as collateral for. The next year things did not go well at all and he ended up losing his mind and taking his own life. My old boss ran into a 450k surplus several years ago. He put pretty much all of the money into tripling the size of his 1920s bungalow and turning it into a garish mess. Then a better, cheaper competitor popped up and his sales dropped by 90%. The guy had to take out a HELOC to keep his business afloat and of course his house was appraised at less than half of what he put into it. He could be a thread in itself. The guy had no ability to deal with paperwork. He would just let mail pile up on his desk and then shove it all onto the floor where it would get trampled on top of previous mail. When he moved his office the folks cleaning it out found hundreds of dollars in cash among the rubble and thousands in checks. Not depositing your checks is bad with money.
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Feb 20, 2015 02:19
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I would like to take out of loan, here, take this pile of mail as collateral, who knows what you could find in there.
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Feb 20, 2015 02:27
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Senf posted:I just had a friend sign a $1400/month lease on $2800/month in net income with $700-$800 in straight bills (and this is before she comes off her parent's medical insurance in a few months) and no real expense budget or emergency fund. Much of her limited savings is going toward the deposit, first month's rent, and new furniture and other household necessities (she's moving out of her parent's house, so she doesn't have any of these things) and she has always been really free-spending (so, so, so many clothes, refuses to cook, etc.). She's also ignored every single bit of basic financial advice we've ever given her, which isn't surprising. Where the gently caress is this? $1400 rent with $700+ bills on top? What bills are those!?
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Feb 20, 2015 02:39
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