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Sigma-X posted:I mean I guess it's cool that my eye of Ugin makes All is Dust cost 5, or that Goblin Matron can find tarfire instead of goodcard Gempalm Incinerator, or that I can harbinger up my Nameless Inversion for SIIICK RIPS BRO in a lovely block deck, but outside of the 1 tribes-really-matter-guys block that had it, it would do practically nothing of real value for an added layer of complexity. And complexity for complexity's sake isn't good game design. Except it isn't for the sake of complexity, it's for the sake of the things you've outlined in your own post for me. Those are real things, that have an effect on the game, not just adding complexity for the sake of itself.
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Mar 6, 2015 06:51
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Minority Deport posted:
So, a mildly less expensive Hour of Need that doesn't exile?
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Mar 6, 2015 06:53
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Oldsrocket_27 posted:So, a mildly less expensive Hour of Need that doesn't exile? Its less expensive by 1 if you have 3 creatures, and its a Sorcery. Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:I suppose it's that Tribal cards require other Tribal cards in order to be worth it. Both in the "we're bringing back this kind of obscure supertype" sense and in the sense that there have to be multiple ways to care about a creature type besides caring about creatures, which is really weird to do. I mean, I'm sure Tribal will come back eventually. At some point they'll run out of ideas.
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Mar 6, 2015 06:54
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Spiderdrake posted:I don't see how tribal is difficult to understand. What was the issue? IIRC, Maro said it led to cards having creature types unnecessarily being put on spells, or effecting the casting cost compared to similar but non-tribal cards. At least unnecessary outside of a tribal themed set, like a handful of Eldrazi cards being the only non-Lorwyn block tribal cards. Eye of Ugin could easily called out Eldrazi creatures and non-artifact colorless cards, than just colorless Eldrazi spells. I can understand the worry about complexity, since tribal cards interact with "normal" tribal cards in sometimes odd ways. Like Ballyrush Banneret lowering the cost of Crib Swap. Or being able to sacrifice a Militia's Pride to pump a Cloudgoat Ranger. Using Homing Sliver, you can slivercycle to grab anything with changeling.
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Mar 6, 2015 06:58
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Angry Grimace posted:
Tymaret replacement in murderking decks when theros cycles out! Edit: heck, it even works now as my long needed solution for murderking vs the drat sligh decks.
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Mar 6, 2015 07:06
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I like the flavor of a Clickslither being so hungry for Goblins that the mere scent of them having performed shenanigans nearby is enough to make it hulk out. Okay, maybe the fact it gets sacrificed in order to do it doesn't fully make sense, maybe this is just a super pervy insect that gets off on licking the places where a bunch of goblins have been, but ultimately the flavor arguments end up in territory that was literally in a rulebook in 1993 addressing the question of whether you could cast Holy and Unholy Strength on your Air Elemental at the same time. When the flavor makes sense, it's a bonus, and when it doesn't make sense, that's fine because this is the game where you can cast a spell to make yourself forget how to summon a legendary demon, and that causes the demon's physical corpse to appear in a nearby graveyard. It's net upside.
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Mar 6, 2015 07:12
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My favorite Tribal interaction is using Haakon, Stromgald Scourge to recur Crib Swap. But that's mostly because I love everything about Crib Swap.
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Mar 6, 2015 07:17
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Any quick way of spotting fakes? You probably can't tell from the lovely picture, but the Hymns are much paler than newer cards and their backs a smidgeon redder. I was just wondering whether the print technique changed that much (other old cards tend to also be paler but these stood out). I don't have delusions of these being worth anything, just curious.
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Mar 6, 2015 07:29
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InterrupterJones posted:I was thinking it'd have more synergy with my Kresh the Bloodbraided edh deck. Good point! I was unfamiliar with this card RME fucked around with this message at 07:38 on Mar 6, 2015 |
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Mar 6, 2015 07:36
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Also found Siege Rhino's grand daddy
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Mar 6, 2015 07:38
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Rinkles posted:Any quick way of spotting fakes? I found it hard to believe a Hymn would be worth anything considering how many packs of Fallen Empires were everywhere and so cheap, and realized that basically every art Hymn is more expensive than packs of Fallen Empires were. That's really funny.
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Mar 6, 2015 07:38
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So I've got a theory regarding Gideon in MTG Origins. In the novel Purifying fire, it's revealed that Gideon got his spark by killing someone much more powerful than he was, and being shocked at the impossibility of the situation. With the new revelation that Gideon is originally from Theros, it raises the question: Who on theros, now dead, would a person think so powerful that killing them would be impossible? Obviously a god. The only god that isn't alive at the beginning of Theros Block is the RG god, the god of the temple of Abandon. Gideon Killed a God. Namagem fucked around with this message at 07:44 on Mar 6, 2015 |
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Mar 6, 2015 07:42
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Wasn't it implied that the Gods of Theros have lived, died, been replaced and so forth? I thought they hinted there had been a previous god of war?
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Mar 6, 2015 07:44
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Spiderdrake posted:Lorwyn block is a low point for the game so it isn't much of a surprise they want to just avoid it. I find it astounding that one sentence can contain this much wrongness it'll go great in my wrong sentence EDH deck
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Mar 6, 2015 07:56
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Spiderdrake posted:Wasn't it implied that the Gods of Theros have lived, died, been replaced and so forth? I thought they hinted there had been a previous god of war? Yes. http://archive.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ur/303 One of the best lore articles they have done recently. Rinkles posted:Any quick way of spotting fakes? At lot of cards from that time are printed with varying levels of quality. They did not get poo poo figured out for some time.
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Mar 6, 2015 08:02
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rabidsquid posted:I found it hard to believe a Hymn would be worth anything considering how many packs of Fallen Empires were everywhere and so cheap, and realized that basically every art Hymn is more expensive than packs of Fallen Empires were. When I started playing (post-the Dark, pre-Ice Age) packs of Fallen Empires were .99. They were STILL .99 when I quit in Mirage.
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Mar 6, 2015 08:05
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Angry Grimace posted:
..."Kytheon Ioras" eh? Sure alright. Gideon Gensuki fucked around with this message at 08:18 on Mar 6, 2015 |
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Mar 6, 2015 08:09
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Rinkles posted:Any quick way of spotting fakes? Those are real because they are worthless, I'm sure no one ever bothered making counterfeit Hymns. Older printings are much less consistent, which is why those look odd. One of the best anti-counterfeit measures on Magic cards is a blue sheet between the front and back cardstock, which you can see if you inspect the edge of the card with a magnifying glass. Like I said, there's no way those particular cards are fake, but you can practice finding the blue line on old cards with those. Gensuki posted:..."[b]K[b]ytheon [b]Iora[b]s" eh? Sure alright. Gideon Does Kytheon mean anything in Greek? Gideon was an important Judge in the Bible. Chamale fucked around with this message at 08:26 on Mar 6, 2015 |
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Mar 6, 2015 08:10
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ungulateman posted:I find it astounding that one sentence can contain this much wrongness Bugsy posted:Yes. http://archive.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ur/303 One of the best lore articles they have done recently.
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Mar 6, 2015 08:12
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Spiderdrake posted:Yeah, except, that's WoTC's line on the set, block, etc. The whole tribal conversation is about how Lorwyn is a gently caress up. The statement being WOTC's line, and being incredibly wrong, are not mutually exclusive.
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Mar 6, 2015 08:13
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Gensuki posted:..."[b]K[b]ytheon [b]Iora[b]s" eh? Sure alright. Gideon Jehovah starts with an I
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Mar 6, 2015 08:13
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JerryLee posted:The statement being WOTC's line, and being incredibly wrong, are not mutually exclusive. From their perspective it's a gently caress up, even if it's not from ours.
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Mar 6, 2015 08:16
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Chamale posted:Those are real because they are worthless, I'm sure no one every bothered making counterfeit Hymns. Older printings are much less consistent, which is why those look odd. One of the best anti-counterfeit measures on Magic cards is a blue sheet between the front and back cardstock, which you can see if you inspect the edge of the card with a magnifying glass. Like I said, there's no way those particular cards are fake, but you can practice finding the blue line on old cards with those. That's the kind of thing I was looking for, thanks.
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Mar 6, 2015 08:18
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I'm really surprised it took them as long as it did to put the little hologram thing on the cards.
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Mar 6, 2015 08:20
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Angry Grimace posted:Jehovah starts with an I I meant it more as noticing what may have been something dumb akin to Liliana Vess is a Villainess, or K.O.T.H. being short for Koth of the Hammer. It might be a coincidence, but it is there.
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Mar 6, 2015 08:20
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JerryLee posted:The statement being WOTC's line, and being incredibly wrong, are not mutually exclusive. When something is a failure, poorly received and poorly remembered, that's a low point. They don't want to go back to that, and much like a lot of other things, they tend to shy wide from this stuff. R&D evaluates in macro and skips a lot of the details. The best example is always going to be Gerrard and the Weatherlight. I mean you've read the articles, you know their opinion was that "people didn't like a connected narrative with recurring characters" and so forth. It wasn't the details like Gerrard sucked, or Rath was stupid and Volrath just flunked out of antagonist college before turning into web spaghetti. It was the whole idea they claimed sucked. Yet here we are, reading about an overarching connected narrative with recurring characters and people like them. It took them what, over a decade? So yeah, they can certainly be wrong but I'm not wrong that this is their viewpoint. Maybe in a decade you'll see some vindication on the good qualities of Lorwyn being remembered, just this time without ugly kithkin. So ugly. Angry Grimace posted:I'm really surprised it took them as long as it did to put the little hologram thing on the cards. I'm disappointed the holograms aren't rubsigns 
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Mar 6, 2015 08:23
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Starving Autist posted:Except it isn't for the sake of complexity, it's for the sake of the things you've outlined in your own post for me. Those are real things, that have an effect on the game, not just adding complexity for the sake of itself. Those are fringe boring plays and those are in formats where tribal is relevant - which it isn't in Standard and isn't any format wherein we are trying to justify making Tribal "evergreen". You're defending sticking Tribal on lovely Bulk Dragon Mythic, which would be an unnecessary layer of complexity so that your lovely dragon mythic could maybe someday cost 1 less. Tribal coming back for Lorwyn 2 could at least be interesting for limited but tribal as a supertype doesn't really do anything for constructed play and is unnecessary complexity outside of any format that isn't heavily designed around it. So tribaling your lovely dragon mythic is not a good idea, sorry. Rinkles posted:Any quick way of spotting fakes? FE print runs and really anything earlier than Ice Age has really lovely print quality that varies wildly. Nobody is faking your $1.00 hymn to tourachs.
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Mar 6, 2015 08:54
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It seems like a weird about face to go from a limited environment that felt as spikey as Khans with its demanding mana bases and relatively complicated board states to LET'S JUST SLAM SOME DANG DRAGONS  that this is looking like.
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Mar 6, 2015 09:09
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If Brittle Will is real it's going to be pretty neat for hiding a card from Thoughtseize.
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Mar 6, 2015 09:18
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Speculation based on nothing: I think the card type will return, just not until they have a tribe set incoming AND have run out of other ideas on how to make it work. The idea is actually pretty neat, its just templated so weirdly and they rarely seemed to word it in a way to reinforce that non-creatures were also a creature type. For example, Mistbind Clique says to Champion a Faerie - basic reasoning and understanding of how the game works suggests a Faerie is a creature: the idea that you can Champion Bitterblossom with Mistbind Clique is something players frequently don't understand when I do it. All it really needs is reminder text like: (This card counts as a Faerie in all zones, but isn't a creature) and instead of saying "Reveal a Faerie," say "Reveal a Faerie creature or a Faerie spell."
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Mar 6, 2015 09:23
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rabidsquid posted:If Brittle Will is real it's going to be pretty neat for hiding a card from Thoughtseize. What is it? (regardless of its authenticity)
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Mar 6, 2015 09:24
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 Note that the image is from an article, and also the collector's number does not make sense if you compare it to Anticipation (it should have a higher number since it comes later alphabetically). Also it's a colourless turn one counterspell how could anyone believe this
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Mar 6, 2015 09:30
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Irony Be My Shield posted:
I don't think they'd print that. I'd like to think they'd use the correct font, too.
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Mar 6, 2015 09:32
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Irony Be My Shield posted:
I don't think there's a format that wouldn't get played in
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Mar 6, 2015 09:33
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No I'm sure they're chomping at the bit to print Mental Misstep 2.0.
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Mar 6, 2015 09:34
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Irony Be My Shield posted:
Above all, the problem would be giving every color a counterspell. (yeah yeah Mental Misstep, but that's more narrow).
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Mar 6, 2015 09:34
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Irony Be My Shield posted:
Dude is holding a lightbulb and posing for instagram. the force of will looked more believable.
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Mar 6, 2015 09:36
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Sigma-X posted:Dude is holding a lightbulb and posing for instagram. Yeah, there's nothing Brittle about that card. If there was at least smug flavor text about how easy spells were to break, then sure.
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Mar 6, 2015 09:40
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Irony Be My Shield posted:No I'm sure they're chomping at the bit to print Mental Misstep 2.0. Except MM is irrelevant in a Standard format like 99% of the time. This card would be completely relevant in every deck all the time to the point it would be better than Force of Will in Standard because everyone could play it since it doesn't require you to either reveal the card or the card to even be blue.
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Mar 6, 2015 09:41
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Angry Grimace posted:
There's already specific templating for Faerie Creatures vs Faerie Cards. I don't really buy any explanations involving things being "counterintuitive" because that's so subjective I mean like breathing through one's nostrils is counterintuitive to literal mouthbreathers. I think there is some mechanical complexity with poo poo like mutavault with lords active and people not immediately making the connection that lord of atlantis grows mutavault, but I feel like that's more specific to mutavault than with tribal cards in general. Like I don't think anyone's perplexed after five seconds of light contemplation tops in MMA or TPF when Blightspeaker or Amrou Scout go and find a Bound in Silence but I'll admit I do take some of this stuff for granted. Ramos posted:Yeah, there's nothing Brittle about that card. If there was at least smug flavor text about how easy spells were to break, then sure. No you see the will is brittle because there's no longer a paper document in his hand and it's already crumbled to pieces.
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Mar 6, 2015 09:44
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