p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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ahmeni: May 1, 2005; It's one continuous form where hardware and software function in perfect unison, creating a new generation of iPhone that's better by any measure.; Grimey Drawer

the best mgmt is the ones that don't want to be there
beware the ones that love meetings

# ? Mar 5, 2015 22:49

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 5, 2024 08:19

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

Brain Candy posted:

oh, i totally like stories too. but when duder admitted he got sucked into mgmt the hints of a wounded ego suddenly made more sense

e: on second thought, just: lol

Subjunctive fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Mar 5, 2015

# ? Mar 5, 2015 23:00

Tavistock: Oct 30, 2010

tef i want to learn logic programming but i don't even know what the gently caress it is about. with python and junk i just sort of said i want to do a thing and kept learning what to do until i got it done. you seem like someone that is good a pedagogy and you use prolog, so what are some approachable problems to solve with logic programming.

im using clojure core.logic and i looked at a sudoku solver after reading a chapter on prolog in some book at my library and it doesnt even make sense. it seems like its time scheduler: the language. i think i want to write static analysis tools for my lovely programs or something. help

# ? Mar 5, 2015 23:12

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

prefect posted:

he might have been serious

i was

# ? Mar 6, 2015 02:25

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

for serious, knowing your own limits, and being able to take the immediate problem for the larger issue at hand, well, it's a hard choice, so uh yeah

HELP I WAS BEING NICE

# ? Mar 6, 2015 02:29

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

HOW DO I SAY NICE THINGS I HAVE FORGOTTEN

# ? Mar 6, 2015 02:34

JawnV6: Jul 4, 2004; So hot ...

tef posted:

HOW DO I SAY NICE THINGS I HAVE FORGOTTEN

# ? Mar 6, 2015 02:36

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

ten years being an rear end in a top hat, ama

# ? Mar 6, 2015 02:37

leftist heap: Feb 28, 2013; Fun Shoe

are there web frameworks for prolog. is there an equivalent to monad tutorials for prolog?

# ? Mar 6, 2015 02:49

PleasureKevin: Jan 2, 2011

oracle now forcing installation of ask jeeves adware on install of Java runtime

# ? Mar 6, 2015 03:08

crazysim: May 23, 2004; I AM SOOOOO GAY

PleasureKevin posted:

oracle now forcing installation of ask jeeves adware on install of Java runtime

by what non Chrome Web Store method does this adware install itself with? i thought they blocked that.

# ? Mar 6, 2015 03:12

Hed: Mar 31, 2004; Fun Shoe

you down with JRE?
yeah you Ask Jeeves

# ? Mar 6, 2015 03:12

MrMoo: Sep 14, 2000

crazysim posted:

by what non Chrome Web Store method does this adware install itself with? i thought they blocked that.

Doesn't Chrome deactivate drive-by extension and app installs by default?

# ? Mar 6, 2015 03:14

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

you can't opt out any more?

# ? Mar 6, 2015 03:23

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

i guess oracle is mad about adobe stealing the limelight lately with flash 16 being a colossal piece of poo poo

# ? Mar 6, 2015 03:34

crazysim: May 23, 2004; I AM SOOOOO GAY

MrMoo posted:

Doesn't Chrome deactivate drive-by extension and app installs by default?

That's what I thought. Was it Windows only?

As for getting around, I thought that's Beta, Developer, and Canary. Stable blocked.

# ? Mar 6, 2015 03:37

MeruFM: Jul 27, 2010

it's only blocked on windows
and beta also blocks

And developer/canary crashes every 3rd page

# ? Mar 6, 2015 03:56

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

Tavistock posted:

tef i want to learn logic programming but i don't even know what the gently caress it is about. with python and junk i just sort of said i want to do a thing and kept learning what to do until i got it done. you seem like someone that is good a pedagogy and you use prolog, so what are some approachable problems to solve with logic programming.

eh

it's weird to want to know something because you don't know what it is you'll learn, but eh, prolog's just plain weird. it's somewhere between writing sql queries in regular expressions and executable grammar.

it was my first weird language and it stuck with me, the aha moments where you understand what the gently caress you are doing are rather nice, and there is this notion of finding a very declarative essence of what makes a program. indeed, many prolog programs can be run backwards as well as forwards.

quote:

im using clojure core.logic and i looked at a sudoku solver after reading a chapter on prolog in some book at my library and it doesnt even make sense. it seems like its time scheduler: the language. i think i want to write static analysis tools for my lovely programs or something. help

tbh "the reasoned schemer" or something around kanren/minikanren might be good

rrrrrrrrrrrt posted:

are there web frameworks for prolog. is there an equivalent to monad tutorials for prolog?

yes. and not really

as for other bits, well in prolog you tend to write meta-interpreters a lot so uh :2bong:

# ? Mar 6, 2015 03:59

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

prolog in a nutshell.

1. prolog is a database.

code:

foo.
bar.
butt.

we can load this and ask

?- foo. and it is true, yes, foo exists
?- poop. it is false, so no poop does not exist.

and we can build up queries

? - foo, butt. % is foo and butt true

2. prolog is a query language

code:

butts :- a_butt, another_butt

we can define facts in the database, like foo, bar, and baz in terms of other facts, kinda like stored queries, or computed values
we can say either AND or OR, so foo :- a; b is foo if a OR b, and foo :- a,b is a AND B.

3. prolog is a grammar

code:

expression :- number;
expression :- bracket, expression_list, bracket

prolog works top down, left to right, recursing as it goes to work out what facts are in the database, we can specify multiple rules
and they are tried in order.

we can actually get multiple results for queries too.

4. prolog is a programming language

we can add in parameters to queries and facts in the database

member(X, List) :- head(List, X).
member(X, List) :- tail(List, T), member(X, T)

this says: X is a member of a List, if it is at the front of a list, or member of the tail of the list

:2bong:

# ? Mar 6, 2015 04:06

Athas: Aug 6, 2007; fuck that joker

tef posted:

4. prolog is a programming language

we can add in parameters to queries and facts in the database

member(X, List) :- head(List, X).
member(X, List) :- tail(List, T), member(X, T)

this says: X is a member of a List, if it is at the front of a list, or member of the tail of the list

5. Prolog is an imperative programming language.

You add a built-in predicate that succeeds while performing a side effect.

printButts([butt | Butts ]) :- !, print('found butt'), printList(Butts).
printButts([ _ | Butts ]) :- printButts(Butts)

"Practical" Prolog can be some really nasty poo poo. No idea why anyone would take something so beautiful and make it so nasty.

# ? Mar 6, 2015 08:22

Athas: Aug 6, 2007; fuck that joker

Basically, if you want to learn Prolog, actually learn Datalog.

# ? Mar 6, 2015 08:26

sarehu: Apr 20, 2007; (call/cc call/cc)

Prolog sucks because it is dynamically typed, it's practically Javascript only with easier to understand evaluation order.

# ? Mar 6, 2015 08:43

Workaday Wizard: Oct 23, 2009; by Pragmatica

sarehu posted:

Prolog sucks because it is dynamically typed, it's practically Javascript only with easier to understand evaluation order.

i havent used prolog but aren't head() and tail() algebraic types in this example? if you want to use a head() you have to have head() in your function (does prolog have functions?)
member(X, List) :- head(List, X).
member(X, List) :- tail(List, T), member(X, T)

# ? Mar 6, 2015 10:14

Athas: Aug 6, 2007; fuck that joker

Shinku ABOOKEN posted:

i havent used prolog but aren't head() and tail() algebraic types in this example? if you want to use a head() you have to have head() in your function (does prolog have functions?)
member(X, List) :- head(List, X).
member(X, List) :- tail(List, T), member(X, T)

Prolog does not have functions, only predicates. 'head(List, X)' means to see if you can take the head of List and unify it with X, which is done by checking all the rules for 'head'. There is probably only one such rule, and it looks like this:

head([X | _], X).

# ? Mar 6, 2015 10:42

MononcQc: May 29, 2007

Athas posted:

Basically, if you want to learn Prolog, actually learn Datalog.

Mercury

# ? Mar 6, 2015 12:46

Cybernetic Vermin: Apr 18, 2005

sarehu posted:

Prolog sucks because it is dynamically typed, it's practically Javascript only with easier to understand evaluation order.

static typing in prolog would make very little sense. it is not really clear what it would even mean.

# ? Mar 6, 2015 14:42

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

there are statically typed logic programming languages (or at least logic DSLs embedded in languages with such type systems)

# ? Mar 6, 2015 14:44

sarehu: Apr 20, 2007; (call/cc call/cc)

What's the deal with complex numbers as a built-in feature?

# ? Mar 6, 2015 21:52

rjmccall: Sep 7, 2007; no worries friend; Fun Shoe

sarehu posted:

What's the deal with complex numbers as a built-in feature?

it's tricky to get the exact semantics right if they aren't built-in because just promoting the values to complex can do the wrong thing with infinities and negative zero

# ? Mar 6, 2015 23:14

Cybernetic Vermin: Apr 18, 2005

gonadic io posted:

there are statically typed logic programming languages (or at least logic DSLs embedded in languages with such type systems)

mostly what i find difficult about it is that all of prolog restricts objects to some domain prescribed by a sequence of predicates, and drawing the line between what predicates are "types" seems artificial

while numbers and lists have a sort of special status at the very least all kids of user-defined types are fundamentally a matter of logical constraints which are by their nature, and design, indistinguishable from what constitutes computation

# ? Mar 6, 2015 23:15

crazypenguin: Mar 9, 2005; nothing witty here, move along

Cybernetic Vermin posted:

static typing in prolog would make very little sense. it is not really clear what it would even mean.

gonadic io posted:

there are statically typed logic programming languages

lambda prolog, for example.

edit: misread "there are" as "are there". fixed

crazypenguin fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Mar 6, 2015

# ? Mar 6, 2015 23:17

rjmccall: Sep 7, 2007; no worries friend; Fun Shoe

i took classes from sergio antoy

it is completely batshit

# ? Mar 6, 2015 23:22

crazypenguin: Mar 9, 2005; nothing witty here, move along

Cybernetic Vermin posted:

mostly what i find difficult about it is that all of prolog restricts objects to some domain prescribed by a sequence of predicates, and drawing the line between what predicates are "types" seems artificial

while numbers and lists have a sort of special status at the very least all kids of user-defined types are fundamentally a matter of logical constraints which are by their nature, and design, indistinguishable from what constitutes computation

Basically, it allows you to draw a distinction between data and relations. So: (and my lambda prolog is rusty so forgive my syntax errors)

code:

expr : ty.
abs : (expr -> expr) -> expr.
app : expr -> expr -> expr.
tt : expr.
ff : expr.
cond : expr -> expr -> expr -> expr.

eval : expr -> expr -> o.

eval (app (abs f) x) (f x).
eval (cond X T F) T :- eval X tt.
eval (cond X T F) F :- eval X ff.

So, reading down this bit of code, "expr is a type", "abs, app, tt, ff, cond are constructors of this expr type", "eval is a binary relation on expr" (the o type is basically the type of propositions), then there's the normal prology evaluation rules for this tiny little lambda calculus.

clear anything up, or do I just muddle things further?

# ? Mar 6, 2015 23:33

hackbunny: Jul 22, 2007; I haven't been on SA for years but the person who gave me my previous av as a joke felt guilty for doing so and decided to get me a non-shitty av

help I can't stop using x-macros

I'm now using them to generate sql statements

they're so convenient but how ugly

# ? Mar 9, 2015 23:46

hackbunny: Jul 22, 2007; I haven't been on SA for years but the person who gave me my previous av as a joke felt guilty for doing so and decided to get me a non-shitty av

how can't there be a more c++ way in tyool 2015

# ? Mar 9, 2015 23:47

hackbunny: Jul 22, 2007; I haven't been on SA for years but the person who gave me my previous av as a joke felt guilty for doing so and decided to get me a non-shitty av

like, a compile-time ast api

# ? Mar 9, 2015 23:48