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RareAcumen posted:Throw in 'and a threat' and we're really getting somewhere!
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 16:09 |
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# ? Jun 7, 2024 22:49 |
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There hasn't been a trial of any sort proving that gentle giant ever assaulted, or was threatening, anyone.
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 16:14 |
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See, now you're missing the 'armed' part of the equation. And that even gets muddied when you're, hypothetically, open carrying in a state that has that as a legal right!
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 16:16 |
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baw posted:So Madison has problems with race, and the mayor even admits racial disparities in law enforcement. Lily white? Hmm, sounds racist. Yes I guess some people do know about the crimes that people have committed rather than think about how unequal the hateful white man's world is. I had to laugh out loud when I read the quote you posted that we need to spend more money for services instead of on prisons. Reminds me of the MS Paint cartoon where the pastor says "we need more money for the programs". It's almost as if some of the stereotypes are true. Although, that seems to me to be like blackmail. Give us more money, or we'll do more crimes, we warned you! I'd rather crimes didn't get done whether or not money is spent, for my part.
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 16:21 |
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RareAcumen posted:See, now you're missing the 'armed' part of the equation. No, it doesn't.
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 16:23 |
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Radish posted:I thought all the D&D libertarians went to play Eve then died from malnutrition. They all got brain parasites from drinking unpasteurized milk.
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 16:24 |
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paranoid randroid posted:They all got brain parasites from drinking unpasteurized milk. I'm not seeing how that would affect their posting.
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 16:28 |
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(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 16:53 |
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Two Ton 21 posted:Don't you LARP as a black person? "The heat is off, I can finally post!" -racists
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 16:55 |
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SedanChair posted:"The heat is off, I can finally post!" -racists Actually that's still pretty funny
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 17:06 |
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Slipknot Hoagie posted:Lily white? Hmm, sounds racist. Yes I guess some people do know about the crimes that people have committed rather than think about how unequal the hateful white man's world is. I had to laugh out loud when I read the quote you posted that we need to spend more money for services instead of on prisons. Reminds me of the MS Paint cartoon where the pastor says "we need more money for the programs". It's almost as if some of the stereotypes are true. Although, that seems to me to be like blackmail. Give us more money, or we'll do more crimes, we warned you! I'd rather crimes didn't get done whether or not money is spent, for my part. If you can read the Ferguson report and still dismiss the protestors, be my guest. I can't. baw fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Mar 9, 2015 |
# ? Mar 9, 2015 17:08 |
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SedanChair posted:"The heat is off, I can finally post!" -racists Can't be racist. Darker than you. So I'm darker than black.
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 17:11 |
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theflyingorc posted:Actually that's still pretty funny It's funny to racists.
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 17:21 |
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Slipknot Hoagie posted:Lily white? Hmm, sounds racist. Yes I guess some people do know about the crimes that people have committed rather than think about how unequal the hateful white man's world is. I had to laugh out loud when I read the quote you posted that we need to spend more money for services instead of on prisons. Reminds me of the MS Paint cartoon where the pastor says "we need more money for the programs". It's almost as if some of the stereotypes are true. Although, that seems to me to be like blackmail. Give us more money, or we'll do more crimes, we warned you! I'd rather crimes didn't get done whether or not money is spent, for my part. I too wish we could solve all our problems without spending any money. Also I want a unicorn, and glittermobile, and I want to be a pretty pretty princess and...
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 17:23 |
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Slipknot Hoagie posted:Lily white? Hmm, sounds racist. Yes I guess some people do know about the crimes that people have committed rather than think about how unequal the hateful white man's world is. I had to laugh out loud when I read the quote you posted that we need to spend more money for services instead of on prisons. Reminds me of the MS Paint cartoon where the pastor says "we need more money for the programs". It's almost as if some of the stereotypes are true. Although, that seems to me to be like blackmail. Give us more money, or we'll do more crimes, we warned you! I'd rather crimes didn't get done whether or not money is spent, for my part. Congratulations, your Puritan tightwad attitude is literally the cause of all problems in America that are not explained by overt racism.
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 17:29 |
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SedanChair posted:Congratulations, your Puritan tightwad attitude is literally the cause of all problems in America that are not explained by overt racism. When you consider Atwater's famous strategy, you could make the case that the puritan tightwad attitude is in part perpetuated by racists who believe social services not exclusive to whites should be abolished.
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 17:32 |
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FAUXTON posted:When you consider Atwater's famous strategy, you could make the case that the puritan tightwad attitude is in part perpetuated by racists who believe social services not exclusive to whites should be abolished. Oh certainly, I didn't mean to imply that Slipknot Hoagie is not a racist. He's just one who lacks courage. He has to use bootstraps imagery instead of racial slurs.
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 17:34 |
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Cool reddit meme, le sir.
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 18:04 |
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Slipknot Hoagie posted:Lily white? Hmm, sounds racist. Yes I guess some people do know about the crimes that people have committed rather than think about how unequal the hateful white man's world is. I had to laugh out loud when I read the quote you posted that we need to spend more money for services instead of on prisons. Reminds me of the MS Paint cartoon where the pastor says "we need more money for the programs". It's almost as if some of the stereotypes are true. Although, that seems to me to be like blackmail. Give us more money, or we'll do more crimes, we warned you! I'd rather crimes didn't get done whether or not money is spent, for my part. The idea is not to spend more and more money to create programs that exist alongside the current criminal justice model. Creating systems to work alongside the American criminal justice system is just painting racing stripes on a car with no tires. The idea is to create alternatives which stand for themselves. Optimizing outcomes is difficult and complicated. Doing better than godawful terrible is not. The question, then, is how many more people, many of whom are admittedly pretty awful, you'd like to feed into the volcano before the hungry god that lives in the caldera sees fit to deliver us from poverty and substance abuse.
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 18:05 |
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"This meeting of Black Thugs Without Father Figures Local 76 is called to order. How is our extortion of white America through committing crimes going?" "Not incredibly well, we're just getting shot by the police" "Don't lose heart! Keep playing the 'knock out game.' Eventually whites will capitulate and provide us with social services!"
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 18:23 |
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SedanChair posted:"This meeting of Black Thugs Without Father Figures Local 76 is called to order. How is our extortion of white America through committing crimes going?" OMG! *locks doors*
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 18:28 |
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Not since the appeasement of Adolf Hitler have I been so thoroughly extorted, very well then, give the blacks their payments. Loosen the golden purse strings and release the payments directly into the ghettos. It's less costly than the alternative, which is law enforcement and incarceration.
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 18:55 |
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SedanChair posted:"This meeting of Black Thugs Without Father Figures Local 76 is called to order. How is our extortion of white America through committing crimes going?"
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 18:58 |
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Slipknot Hoagie posted:Not since the appeasement of Adolf Hitler have I been so thoroughly extorted, very well then, give the blacks their payments. Loosen the golden purse strings and release the payments directly into the ghettos. It's less costly than the alternative, which is law enforcement and incarceration. Second, just so you know, the overwhelming majority of any given criminal docket is reserved for people who have committed such heinous trespasses against the public dignity as "driving on a suspended operator's license due to unpaid fines and fees," and, "smoking marijuana," and a related family of offenses against statute without the barest hint of public safety impacts or moral weight. Third, I don't know that you've honestly even defined what you want to see happen from a law enforcement system. The majority of criminal felony offenses are small possession crimes, ie. possession of a controlled schedule 1 or 2 substance. I recognize two schools of thought on these offenses. The first is that it is an offense where the perpetrator and the victim are the same person, and that we are protecting people from themselves by way of incarceration. If that is the case, show me how that works to the benefit of the actual perpetrator or victim. The second is that the victim is society at large, which is endangered by the defendant/victim's drug use. Again, if that is the case, show me how that works to the benefit of society at large. I'm happy to talk about either of those moral frameworks with you, or to explain the actual outcomes and how those outcomes serve neither interest. But I can't discern an actual moral or pragmatic position in your petulant smarm, so I'm unsure just what you want to see happen by way of incarcerating people, unless you regard incarceration as a good unto itself. Given that you clearly don't know anything about...any of these issues, you may have to find the willingness inside yourself to admit you don't know everything, or that you've held ideas in your head that may in some respect be mistaken. I'm not overly confident that you're willing to do that. But if you can find in yourself the marginal courage to admit that you are not omniscient, or that you are not blessed with infallible reflexive preconceptions, I'd love to have a discussion. If you can't, or if you'd prefer instead to gratify your sense of persecution and enable your personal narrative as the lone voice of proper moral thinking, I can also insult you pretty fluently.
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 19:16 |
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The only thing conservatives hate more than free blacks are adequate school systems and jobs programs.
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 19:16 |
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Randbrick posted:First off, I have to give you kudos for coming right out to say that you see no daylight between "black people" and "criminals." The overwhelming majority of criminal defendants are not black. That would not surprise anyone with half a mind given to the occasional thought, as black people make up about 13% of the population. They do tend to realize much harsher sentencing than white people, due to...reasons(???) You really didn't need to post all that. Your first sentence was all we needed to know your sense of irony doesn't exist.
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 19:49 |
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Slipknot Hoagie posted:Not since the appeasement of Adolf Hitler have I been so thoroughly extorted, very well then, give the blacks their payments. Loosen the golden purse strings and release the payments directly into the ghettos. It's less costly than the alternative, which is law enforcement and incarceration. this but unironically
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 19:54 |
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spacetoaster posted:You really didn't need to post all that. Your first sentence was all we needed to know your sense of irony doesn't exist.
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 19:55 |
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Randbrick posted:Well, someone went and got himself got himself a fresh pair of meanypants out the laundry. I'm doing my taxes. So yeah.
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 20:15 |
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"Very well then, give the blacks their payments." -A progressive, to be sure
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 20:39 |
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Randbrick posted:There is no social program in existence that costs more relative to its benefits and positive outcomes than incarceration. Incarceration is a money pit. Literally leaving drug addicts on the streets shooting up at bus stops with absolutely no response of any kind beyond cleaning out the corpses after every cold night is cheaper and more cost-effective than the county jail. Similarly, emptying the jails of habitual shoplifters would free up more than enough money for the state to provision every single retail business with a free commercial insurance policy to cover inventory loss. There is nothing less effective at preventing crime and rehabilitating people than the American model of criminal justice and incarceration, and there is nothing more expensive, either. But then people wouldn't endure pain for their sins and the world will descend into chaos.
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 20:41 |
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Every time I see this or something like it, I ask the person "did Mike Brown deserve to die?" So far, no one's been able to just outright admit he had it coming. Slipknot Hoagie posted:Not since the appeasement of Adolf Hitler have I been so thoroughly extorted, very well then, give the blacks their payments. Loosen the golden purse strings and release the payments directly into the ghettos. It's less costly than the alternative, which is law enforcement and incarceration. You make it sound like law enforcement and incarceration are the only options for dealing with the black problem. 90s Solo Cup fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Mar 9, 2015 |
# ? Mar 9, 2015 21:45 |
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Randbrick posted:First off, I have to give you kudos for coming right out to say that you see no daylight between "black people" and "criminals." The overwhelming majority of criminal defendants are not black. That would not surprise anyone with half a mind given to the occasional thought, as black people make up about 13% of the population. They do tend to realize much harsher sentencing than white people, due to...reasons(???) That's why there's things like odds ratios, which would show that minorities are dependents at significantly higher rates than non-hispanic whites (who are actually a minority w.r.t being a dependent). Of course there's many different explanations for why this could be, for example poverty could explain much of the disparity. But even that would probably be insufficient as the types of poverty experienced by whites vs. non-whites. It could be possible that the discrepancies in how poverty is experienced between groups leads to different types of crimes, different severity in crimes and so on. (in other words there is a race-poverty interaction effect) This thread tries to simplistically shout RACISM at every instance because actual analysis is hard and calling other people names is easy and fun I guess. Randbrick posted:There is no social program in existence that costs more relative to its benefits and positive outcomes than incarceration. Incarceration is a money pit. Literally leaving drug addicts on the streets shooting up at bus stops with absolutely no response of any kind beyond cleaning out the corpses after every cold night is cheaper and more cost-effective than the county jail. Similarly, emptying the jails of habitual shoplifters would free up more than enough money for the state to provision every single retail business with a free commercial insurance policy to cover inventory loss. There is nothing less effective at preventing crime and rehabilitating people than the American model of criminal justice and incarceration, and there is nothing more expensive, either. There is a lot of work to be done but the absence of enforcement will lead to more crime- according to every study on the subject. Criminals aren't idiots, if they think there is basically a 100% chance of getting caught they aren't going to do that thing. While length of incarceration tends to be a non-significant affect for most crimes, the probability of arrest/incarceration is a factor taken into account in nearly every crime outside of crimes in the heat of passion. Interesting note: white collar criminals tend to form a Bayesian model, which takes into account estimates of the probability of arrest along with the estimated length of incarceration Given successful prosecution (basically looking at the expected values / variances in outcomes). I agree completely for looking and correcting root causes, but if a law exists it should be enforced equally, consistently, and fairly. With your drug addict example, the problem is trying to deal with medical issues through the law in the first place. With shoplifting we should be looking at why it is occurring. How we should deal with someone stealing bread is much different than how we should deal with a teenager stealing a stereo or a Hollywood actor stealing a dress for the thrill of it. But you don't throw out the law with the bathwater, prevention of shoplifting is obviously in the public interest and having formal rules or "laws" against that sort of thing seems to be a rather sensible thing to do. FAUXTON posted:But then people wouldn't endure pain for their sins and the world will descend into chaos. I know this might be a shock to some here but having a lawful society is actually a good thing. See: recorded history. tsa fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Mar 9, 2015 |
# ? Mar 9, 2015 22:58 |
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Slipknot Hoagie posted:Not since the appeasement of Adolf Hitler have I been so thoroughly extorted, very well then, give the blacks their payments. Loosen the golden purse strings and release the payments directly into the ghettos. It's less costly than the alternative, which is law enforcement and incarceration. Black people: literally Hitler. Anyway. Is it really some big mystery to you that poverty and crime are correlated? "Hey if you don't feed and educate your kid, he's more likely to turn to crime." "Oh well looks like the little poo poo is extorting me." We spend money all the time to give children a better chance in life. But oh when it's black people's kids in a poor neighborhood well now suddenly feeding and educating them is extortion
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 23:11 |
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gently caress, wrong Ferguson thread.
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 23:15 |
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tsa posted:I know this might be a shock to some here but having a lawful society is actually a good thing. See: recorded history. Actually no, not really.
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 23:22 |
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Please stop quoting Sedanchair, tia.
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 23:25 |
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tsa posted:That's why there's things like odds ratios, which would show that minorities are dependents at significantly higher rates than non-hispanic whites (who are actually a minority w.r.t being a dependent). Of course there's many different explanations for why this could be, for example poverty could explain much of the disparity. But even that would probably be insufficient as the types of poverty experienced by whites vs. non-whites. It could be possible that the discrepancies in how poverty is experienced between groups leads to different types of crimes, different severity in crimes and so on. (in other words there is a race-poverty interaction effect) This thread tries to simplistically shout RACISM at every instance because actual analysis is hard and calling other people names is easy and fun I guess. More words doesn't equal a better argument. The reason why people say RACISM is not because of a simplistic analysis, but because it cuts through a lot of sophistry, and why type paragraph after paragraph when the other person isn't going to listen? Statistically there is a discrepancy between the rate at which blacks commit crimes and the rate at which they are prosecuted/convicted. And adjusting for income, there is very little difference in crimes committed versus non-Hispanic whites. So we can spend time on the wonderful merry-go-round where we don't come quite out and say that black people are more naturally criminal, or we can just describe what it is, racism.
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# ? Mar 9, 2015 23:51 |
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Judge Brockmeyer has resigned as judge in Ferguson. He will stay on as a prosecutor and judge in numerous other cities in the area because Missouri is hosed up. edit: goddamn, every municipal case in Ferguson is going to be re-assigned to the circuit; sounds like heads are about to roll. I imagine the IRS has already let the DOJ know they want Brockmeyer's blood for owing nearly 200k in back taxes. pathetic little tramp fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Mar 10, 2015 |
# ? Mar 9, 2015 23:58 |
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# ? Jun 7, 2024 22:49 |
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What's that? Even when you control for poverty black people have worse outcomes? It must be their base natures, and certainly not the RACISM they encounter in every aspect of their lives, from housing to hiring to arrests to sentencing. Do something about your sick culture, black people.
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# ? Mar 10, 2015 00:52 |