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moths posted:It wasn't cancelled because it was never formally announced! http://www.dndclassics.com/product/145542/Elemental-Evil-Players-Companion-5e?filters=0_0_45190
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Mar 10, 2015 19:15
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dwarf74 posted:It wasn't even cancelled, it was released as a free From ENWorld chatter I don't think there's much in it other than a couple of races, some backgrounds, and Moar Spells!!1!!11!
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Mar 10, 2015 19:17
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There's also another Player's Guide coming out soon; it's mostly spells as well.
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Mar 10, 2015 19:19
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bunnielab posted:I'm just build a spear, hangout in neighborhood storm drains, and fight raccoons. They are pretty close to goblins. Racoons are more like Kobolds, honestly.
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Mar 10, 2015 19:20
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LongDarkNight posted:There's also another Player's Guide coming out soon; it's mostly spells as well. Yes, 5e has that D&D Feel(tm) edit: btw just want to come back to this: Evil Mastermind posted:I don't think (5e is) that shaky; I know at my game store they're filling up three tables on Organized Play night every week. It's still pretty new. On my side I'm not seeing anyone enthusiastic about it. Mostly curiosity. Friends of mine who have played it describe it as "pretty good" while raving about Pathfinder. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Mar 10, 2015 |
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Mar 10, 2015 19:25
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Serf posted:That's really too bad. Like you said, everything in 4E is expressed in very clean mechanical terms. Slap that onto a good game engine and port over the massive amount of content they produced (even if it is mostly fiddly trash feats and long lists of magic items) and it would be amazing. I know videogames aren't WOTC's thing and it wouldn't help the "4E is WoW" crap, but I know I'd play the hell outta a game like that. Atari was squatting on the videogame rights for pretty much the entirety of 4e.
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Mar 10, 2015 19:25
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PresidentBeard posted:They are idiots who now populate the paizo site and complain endlessly about "rules bloat". Seemingly wanting Paizo to commit corporate suicide and just stop producing books.
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Mar 10, 2015 19:27
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bunnielab posted:1)5ed is going to be closer to the AD&D I remember, in mechanics and tone. 1. For the most part yes. 2. 4th Edition technically has more rules crunch, but as has been said it's written in such a way that it's very easy to digest. You can run the game completely rules-as-written and not only is it going to work drat near flawlessly for the first 10 or so levels, but any rules issues you do run into can be looked up into the rules and explained in a clear, concise manner. Also, every D&D is about tactical-style combat. 4th Edition is really good at it because it embraces the idea entirely and makes a lot of "gameplay over realism" concessions to support it. 3. The closest thing you're going to get is Original or Basic D&D: the lack of rules for everything means you can make up whatever you want for them, although technically that's also true for every edition as long as you're not yet in combat. bunnielab posted:It looks like both editions have online chargen programs, is one of them massively better then the other? Same question, but about PDF rule books? WOTC recently did a crackdown on online character generation programs, so I'm not sure how healthy that approach is anymore. D&D 4th Edition still critically lacks the first Player's Handbook, but enough of the other core books are out on PDF (PHB 2, PHB 3, Rules Compendium, Monster Manual 3) that you can run a full game legit through them. 5th Edition has PDFs of the free "Basic" rules, but are so barebones that they're not much more useful than getting the general feel of the game.
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Mar 10, 2015 19:38
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neonchameleon posted:From ENWorld chatter I don't think there's much in it other than a couple of races, some backgrounds, and Moar Spells!!1!!11!
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Mar 10, 2015 19:48
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I think Next is going to do pretty well because it's an edition that most people can settle for. It's not as broken as 3.x, doesn't try anything new like 4e, doesn't have most of the restrictions of older editions, etc. It's not aiming to be the best, just the least disagreeable. This is what we have come to.
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Mar 10, 2015 19:49
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Maxwell Lord posted:It's not as broken as 3.x
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Mar 10, 2015 19:52
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And that's fine because magic is the VERY FABRIC OF THE COSMOS.
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Mar 10, 2015 19:55
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bunnielab posted:Oh lord so many choices. It looks like most of the games here are an even split between 4ed and 5ed ( which is also called Next, correct?). It sounds like 4th is the way to go if I want ease of use. It looks like both editions have online chargen programs, is one of them massively better then the other? Same question, but about PDF rule books? If differing editions of D&D are confusing you and all you want to do is kill a goblin, play Dungeon World. The entire point of DW is "rules-light game that feels like what you think you remember AD&D played like when you were kid."
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Mar 10, 2015 19:58
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My Lovely Horse posted:Yet. Let's see how things go when there are a few more additional materials around with two hundred new spells that no one could possible have checked all the interactions for.
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Mar 10, 2015 19:58
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Lemon Curdistan posted:If differing editions of D&D are confusing you and all you want to do is kill a goblin, play Dungeon World. The entire point of DW is "rules-light game that feels like what you think you remember AD&D played like when you were kid."
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Mar 10, 2015 20:01
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Maxwell Lord posted:I think Next is going to do pretty well because it's an edition that most people can settle for. It's not as broken as 3.x, doesn't try anything new like 4e, doesn't have most of the restrictions of older editions, etc. It's not aiming to be the best, just the least disagreeable. "Fifth Edition D&D: it's okay, you don't have to try something new"
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Mar 10, 2015 20:01
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moths posted:And that's fine because magic is the VERY FABRIC OF THE COSMOS. I actually love this idea but in a cool way that lets anyone get to do cool things. Part of the reason I loved 4E was that one of my players just ran with the straight mechanical approach and described all his fighter powers as being magical sword attacks and he had a blast. So long as you axe caster supremacy and make everyone capable of being awesome, magic-as-physics can be very enjoyable.
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Mar 10, 2015 20:02
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Is there any agreement on what storygame means, exactly? I hear it from time to time and I know Pundit hates them, but that only tells me that they are not D&D.
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Mar 10, 2015 20:04
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Mr. Maltose posted:Racoons are more like Kobolds, honestly. How did I forget about Kobolds!?!? Lemon Curdistan posted:If differing editions of D&D are confusing you and all you want to do is kill a goblin, play Dungeon World. The entire point of DW is "rules-light game that feels like what you think you remember AD&D played like when you were kid." This might be best, and it seems like there are a lot of games out there. I still like the idea of playing 1st or 2nd edition but I think that might only really be fun as a face to face thing so beer can be involved.
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Mar 10, 2015 20:05
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paradoxGentleman posted:Is there any agreement on what storygame means, exactly? I hear it from time to time and I know Pundit hates them, but that only tells me that they are not D&D. No, you've pretty much got it. Storygame = whatever I want it to when I want it to. It's largely a meaningless term.
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Mar 10, 2015 20:10
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Evil Mastermind posted:Which is pretty loving hilarious because there were people jumping ship to Pathfinder because WotC was ceasing production of new 3.X stuff despite there being like 100 official books. Yeah I don't think you guys quite get the most insufferable Paizo fans. What they hate above all else is change and concrete coherent rules. They want D&D to be exactly like it felt when they got into the hobby with the 3.0 core set. They think new splats make the system unbalanced, cause "bloat", make everything "too complex", and "don't feel like D&D". These are the same people who claim core 3.0/3.5/Pathfinder is balanced and those that say otherwise are "munchkins, theory crafting, lying, or any other word to imply they don't actually play the game, or at least that the sane people aren't playing it right. They really want Paizo to either make no books or only make pre-made adventures so they can keep everything fighter, rogue, cleric, wizard. They love the core rules but hate critically examining them. They seem to want to play something rules-lite but don't want to quit d20 for some reason. People who enjoy the bloat and mechanics of Pathfinder tend to be the people most ready to point out flaws and imbalances with their own system. Hence why so many of those people have huge elaborate house rules. They're the only ones who really respond to playtests anymore and in general have helped newer classes be overall better designed and less stupid than older classes. Things like the advanced class guide provide fun to play fighters, balanced clerics, and rangers able to actually do ranger things. Naturally this is the same book grognards claim is "ruining Pathfinder". I don't think either group really makes up a majority of customers, just the loudest two online.
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Mar 10, 2015 20:10
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paradoxGentleman posted:Is there any agreement on what storygame means, exactly? I hear it from time to time and I know Pundit hates them, but that only tells me that they are not D&D.
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Mar 10, 2015 20:15
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I am absolutely looking forward to the day that Paizo causes their own fanbase to splinter in a recreation of the 3E/4E edition war more than I probably should.
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Mar 10, 2015 20:15
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paradoxGentleman posted:Is there any agreement on what storygame means, exactly? I hear it from time to time and I know Pundit hates them, but that only tells me that they are not D&D. Not really, it's achieved about the level of meaninglessness that other RPG terms like "simulationism" have taken on. It means a broad spectrum of different things to different people and quite often one of those things is "I don't like this game". Observe! Here's Avery McDaldno's definition. Here's Pundit's explanation, in the context of him trying to argue that seminal storygame Amber is not a storygame. quote:A storygame must do specific things: in its rules, it makes certain priorities (most fundamentally, that the crafting of a "story", as defined by the concept of "addressing a theme", takes precedence over the actual playing of a game). Amber, in its rules as written, does NOT do any of those things. Most fundamentally, in its rules as written, the crafting of a story does NOT take precedence over the RPG-priority of making a game that feels like a living world and having players feel like their characters are real people. So, yeah, it's not worth much as a term unless everyone's on the same page.
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Mar 10, 2015 20:17
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Kai Tave posted:I am absolutely looking forward to the day that Paizo causes their own fanbase to splinter in a recreation of the 3E/4E edition war more than I probably should. Isn't Unchained supposed to be a big deal change?
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Mar 10, 2015 20:19
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PresidentBeard posted:They love the core rules but hate critically examining them. They seem to want to play something rules-lite but don't want to quit d20 for some reason. I've run indie games for people at cons, and you would not believe how many people I've gotten playing stuff like DW or Fate who say things like "this is how we always played D&D/Pathfinder/WoD, really loose and ignoring a bunch of the rules. We didn't know there were games that worked like that out of the box!"
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Mar 10, 2015 20:19
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moths posted:Isn't Unchained supposed to be a big deal change?
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Mar 10, 2015 20:21
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Tulul posted:Not really, it's achieved about the level of meaninglessness that other RPG terms like "simulationism" have taken on. It means a broad spectrum of different things to different people and quite often one of those things is "I don't like this game". Observe! See also: verisimilitude, immersion, dissociative mechanics, WoW, MMO, anime, like magic, and virtually every other loaded word used to describe peoples' problems with various editions of D&D.
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Mar 10, 2015 20:21
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Kai Tave posted:I am absolutely looking forward to the day that Paizo causes their own fanbase to splinter in a recreation of the 3E/4E edition war more than I probably should. This will not happen. The grognards that you guys love to hate don't buy books anymore anyways. Their main grab is people who don't think critically about their game but enjoy new content. They keep up their subscriptions basically forever and just don't want anything that invalidates previous purchases. Unchained is just a book of alternate rules akin to unearthed arcana. The biggest change you'll maybe see if NPCs in adventures using one of the revised classes in unchained instead of the base ones from the core books.
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Mar 10, 2015 20:22
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neonchameleon posted:From ENWorld chatter I don't think there's much in it other than a couple of races, some backgrounds, and Moar Spells!!1!!11! Going back to this. My goodness, ENWorld has gotten terrible. At least during the 3e/4e edition Wars, you could have a conversation. Now, anything outside "5e is awesome and doing awesome" gets you dogpiled. Some dude made a thread where he said, "I'm losing interest because digital support isn't there and there are like no releases." And man... He's getting bitched out for it over like 60 pages.
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Mar 10, 2015 20:23
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Evil Mastermind posted:Because they need to be playing D&D, or at least a game that "continues Gary's legacy". Part of that is Paizo and White Wolf being much much better than those other games at getting advertising into stores and providing continuing support that validates previous purchases.
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Mar 10, 2015 20:24
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Serf posted:Was there ever a 4E strategy game? Because hoo boy if there is a system out there that could support a computer game it's 4E. A good tactical dungeon-crawler with the option to build and customize a party beforehand, shops to grab new magic items to supplement your loot, randomized encounters built using their encounter rules... Sounds like a match made in heaven. Too bad the ship has sailed on 4E stuff because that would be incredible. The closest that's come to a 4e tactics game is https://www.cardhunter.com but even then it's not a 1:1 replication.
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Mar 10, 2015 20:28
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PresidentBeard posted:Part of that is Paizo and White Wolf being much much better than those other games at getting advertising into stores and providing continuing support that validates previous purchases. Paizo more than WW is about maintaining a sunk cost fallacy.
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Mar 10, 2015 20:28
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PresidentBeard posted:This will not happen. I am somehow doubtful that Paizo has found the magic elfgame formula that will allow them to completely avoid the same slow but inexorable decline in sales that pretty much every other RPG publisher experiences over time which necessitates some sort of new edition or similar big release to get things moving again every so often.
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Mar 10, 2015 20:31
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Kai Tave posted:I am somehow doubtful that Paizo has found the magic elfgame formula that will allow them to completely avoid the same slow but inexorable decline in sales that pretty much every other RPG publisher experiences over time which necessitates some sort of new edition or similar big release to get things moving again every so often. Yeah, they're screwed and I can't wait to see what happens.
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Mar 10, 2015 20:35
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It's p. much a dead industry now that videogames exist and honestly there won't be anything bigger than a few dudes selling pdfs in less than 10 years.
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Mar 10, 2015 20:36
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I've always taken storygame to mean certain practices and principles when running and playing RPGs where you put the emphasis on producing an interesting story rather than trying to (there's no good way to express this) create a literal window to another world using the GM as the conduit and the rules as physics. Giving the PCs plot armor, using deus ex machinas, introducing twists to keep things moving over dead-ends, handwaving away improbabilities, that sort of thing. Certainly there are games that are tailor-made to cater to this playstyle, but it's really more of how you approach a game than anything else. Even certain parts of GURPS are storygamey. All that said, there isn't any one definition of it, and it mostly spawned from people who're slinging it around as some kind of epithet, but I'd like to think it can be co-opted to mean a good thing.
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Mar 10, 2015 20:38
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Kai Tave posted:I am somehow doubtful that Paizo has found the magic elfgame formula that will allow them to completely avoid the same slow but inexorable decline in sales that pretty much every other RPG publisher experiences over time which necessitates some sort of new edition or similar big release to get things moving again every so often. I've had Fate on the mind a lot lately, and it's interesting to see the reactions of Fate fans to new editions (SotC to DF to Fate Core) versus the D&D fanbase's reactions to the end of 3e.
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Mar 10, 2015 20:38
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Kai Tave posted:I am somehow doubtful that Paizo has found the magic elfgame formula that will allow them to completely avoid the same slow but inexorable decline in sales that pretty much every other RPG publisher experiences over time which necessitates some sort of new edition or similar big release to get things moving again every so often. I'm saying the whole splintering thing. They'll sputter out and die eventually but I doubt they will have a large enough fanbase around by the time of Pathfinder 2.0 to have some sort of huge edition war.
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Mar 10, 2015 20:46
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PresidentBeard posted:I'm saying the whole splintering thing. They'll sputter out and die eventually but I doubt they will have a large enough fanbase around by the time of Pathfinder 2.0 to have some sort of huge edition war. Which is why they're furiously diversifying out of RPGs into other game interests and especially into Vidya Games. With the high risk MMO safely quarantined in its own company.
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Mar 10, 2015 20:52
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