Auspol March - C U Next Trollday, Auspol - The Something Awful Forums

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol March - C U Next Trollday, Auspol

Pickled Tink: Apr 28, 2012; Have you heard about First Dog? It's a very good comic I just love.

Also, wear your bike helmets kids. I copped several blows to the head but my helmet left me totally unscathed.

Finally you should check out First Dog as it's a good comic I like it very much.; Fun Shoe

starkebn posted:

Isn't it simply semantic bullshit?

One side of the argument says "the boats keep getting turned back, so therefore the boats have stopped (arriving)". The other side says "people are still endangering their lives by setting off in boats, therefore the bats have not stopped (leaving)".

You're not going to have a good faith discussion unless you agree on what the discussion is (typical politics)

Since I have ratbag or whatever his name is on ignore, and have had for about a week, I am just responding to this to point out this isn't a semantic discussion.

As I said in my last post, the stated motivation directly decides which of the two in your post is meant. That stated goal, as they keep pointing out, is "preventing deaths at sea". Of course, the only true way to prevent deaths at sea would be to ban the use of boats entirely within Australian waters, but from context we can narrow it down to asylum seekers.

Since we have, in fact, had occurrences where asylum seeker boats have sunk inside Indonesian and international waters (This being why the government uses the claim of "preventing deaths at sea") the only way to prevent deaths at sea and thereby accomplish the stated goal of stopping the boats, is to prevent them from departing Indonesia. Naturally this also precludes the use of drone submarines, mines, and gunships, all of which would cause further "deaths at sea".

Thus, from the claimed justification of the government for its policy, the boats have not stopped.

HOWEVER:

We all know that claimed justifications and real justifications are almost never the same thing. As such, we can work to determine what the actual goal of the government is from its repeated statements that it has stopped the boats (Assuming that they are not, in fact, just lying for political gain. Sadly this is a very real possibility that this government has a definite track record of doing).

Historically, the objection to boats have been exclusively racist. Stopping the brown hordes from invading. No more mussies, etc. Racism has become much more overt and pronounced since Pauline Hanson came onto the scene and John Howard mainstreamed her views in order to snatch votes (For this sin alone, John Howard deserves to die with a whole durian shoved up his arse).

Likewise, crime figures have repeatedly demonstrated that they are not as much of a threat as, say, a man with a southern cross tattoo (This has not stopped every single example of asylum seeker crime from being reported on the front page though).

Finally, these policies are exclusively aimed at maritime arrivals, who are predominantly brown, as opposed to the much larger number of people who overstay visas and come in by plane, many of whom are white.

Thus, from the governments statements, we can conclude that it is not, in fact, about preventing deaths at sea. That such a goal is in fact simply a smokescreen to disguise an openly racist policy to keep brown people from arriving in Australia.

Which side of the issue you come down on is a fairly good barometer of how racist you are.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 09:24

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 20, 2024 17:12

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

DO NOT READ THE BELOW EVERYONE, I WILL BE MAKING A POST YOU DON'T LIKE. :siren:

YOU READY???

HERE GOES!

:siren:

# ? Mar 11, 2015 09:26

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

That warning was incredibly misleading as this was some class-A top-notch posting.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 09:28

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

Graic Gabtar posted:

I don't buy into this torture thing either to be honest. gently caress ups of Government and some terrible administration yes. Crappy circumstances where several parties have to carry some blame yes. But torture, no.

This is literally an Eichmann argument.
"I knew things were uncomfortable for the Jews, but killing them all? Der F�hrer would never allow that!"

Also :godwin:

# ? Mar 11, 2015 09:31

drowned in pussy juice: Oct 13, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

NEVER FORGET JEFF 3/3/15 :australia:

# ? Mar 11, 2015 09:31

dr_rat: Jun 4, 2001

Les Affaires posted:

Note that there are only a certain number of ministers on the expenditure committee and Turnbull isn't one of them. He will get the message across however he needs to, even if it is in the public arena.

If Turnbull wasn't after that top job you could make something of that, but I'm sure both Turnbull and Abbott didn't want Turnbull connected too tightly to this goverment in the beginning because of it. Although now the governments gone gangrenous I'm sure Abbott is wishing Turnbull was tied to it just a tad bit tighter.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 09:32

Graic Gabtar: Dec 19, 2014; squat my posts

Birdstrike posted:

This is literally an Eichmann argument.
"I knew things were uncomfortable for the Jews, but killing them all? Der F�hrer would never allow that!"

Also

Yeah well I'm already a Nazi so lets have lashings of Eichmann shall we? Lashings

Still don't buy it though.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 09:38

Cpt Soban: Jul 23, 2011

This kid represents most of Australia right now

# ? Mar 11, 2015 09:38

Graic Gabtar: Dec 19, 2014; squat my posts

Pickled Tink posted:

Since I have ratbag or whatever his name is on ignore, and have had for about a week

You've missed some quality posts tbh.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 09:41

Brayds2006: Aug 21, 2011

QUACKTASTIC posted:

Here's Firstdog. Everybody likes Firstdog right?

Whenever Firstdog's not on screen, all the other posters should be asking "Where's Firstdog"?

# ? Mar 11, 2015 09:41

Graic Gabtar: Dec 19, 2014; squat my posts

Brayds2006 posted:

Whenever Firstdog's not on screen, all the other posters should be asking "Where's Firstdog"?

I think it jumped the shark going full retard during the Abbott leadership "spill" to be honest. It will never get that deranged again.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 09:47

Sparticle: Oct 7, 2012

Brayds2006 posted:

Whenever Firstdog's not on screen, all the other posters should be asking "Where's Firstdog"?

Firstdog died on his way back to his home planet

# ? Mar 11, 2015 09:48

dordreff: Jul 16, 2013

"graic gabtar" is an anagram of "Tony Abbott's rusty ballsack"

# ? Mar 11, 2015 09:51

Seagull: Oct 9, 2012; give me a chip

Sparticle posted:

Firstdog died on his way back to his home planet

good

# ? Mar 11, 2015 09:52

Graic Gabtar: Dec 19, 2014; squat my posts

dordreff posted:

"graic gabtar" is an anagram of "Tony Abbott's rusty ballsack"

You selling T-shirts?

# ? Mar 11, 2015 09:55

CATTASTIC: Mar 31, 2010; ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

dordreff posted:

"graic gabtar" is an anagram of "Tony Abbott's rusty ballsack"

You're missing a c

# ? Mar 11, 2015 09:59

hooman: Oct 11, 2007; This guy seems legit.; Fun Shoe

Jonah Galtberg posted:

I just wish people could post about this stuff without having to give that idiot the attention he craves at the same time

Yeah, I can understand that.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 10:00

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

Graic Gabtar posted:

You selling T-shirts?

I'm selling these fine leather jackets!

# ? Mar 11, 2015 10:03

Avshalom: Feb 14, 2012; by Lowtax

My hairs bristle enigmatically.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 10:04

Zetsubou-san: Jan 28, 2015; Cruel Bifaunidas demanded that you [stand]🧍 I require only that you [kneel]🧎

QUACKTASTIC posted:

Here's Firstdog. Everybody likes Firstdog right?

# ? Mar 11, 2015 10:05

Graic Gabtar: Dec 19, 2014; squat my posts

Jonah Galtberg posted:

I just wish people could post about this stuff without having to give that idiot the attention he craves at the same time

Let's have some honesty in reporting here.

I just posted. You guys gave me WAY more attention than I ever could have anticipated.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 10:10

Avshalom: Feb 14, 2012; by Lowtax

Endman.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 10:13

Synthbuttrange: May 6, 2007

Graic Gabtar posted:

Personally I would like to see an end to boat stops and off-shore detention but I believe it can't happen under our current circumstances. So for the moment I accept we're stuck with it.

I don't buy into this torture thing either to be honest. gently caress ups of Government and some terrible administration yes. Crappy circumstances where several parties have to carry some blame yes. But torture, no.

Are you certain of this? Our government helped Sri Lanka quash a UN inquiry into war crimes in exchange for help against refugees.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/23/australia-secured-asylum-deal-by-staying-silent-on-rights-abuses-sri-lanka-pm?CMP=share_btn_tw

# ? Mar 11, 2015 10:15

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

Avshalom posted:

Endman.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 10:18

starkebn: May 18, 2004; "Oooh, got a little too serious. You okay there, little buddy?"

Pickled Tink posted:

Since I have ratbag or whatever his name is on ignore, and have had for about a week, I am just responding to this to point out this isn't a semantic discussion.

As I said in my last post, the stated motivation directly decides which of the two in your post is meant. That stated goal, as they keep pointing out, is "preventing deaths at sea". Of course, the only true way to prevent deaths at sea would be to ban the use of boats entirely within Australian waters, but from context we can narrow it down to asylum seekers.

Since we have, in fact, had occurrences where asylum seeker boats have sunk inside Indonesian and international waters (This being why the government uses the claim of "preventing deaths at sea") the only way to prevent deaths at sea and thereby accomplish the stated goal of stopping the boats, is to prevent them from departing Indonesia. Naturally this also precludes the use of drone submarines, mines, and gunships, all of which would cause further "deaths at sea".

Thus, from the claimed justification of the government for its policy, the boats have not stopped.

HOWEVER:

We all know that claimed justifications and real justifications are almost never the same thing. As such, we can work to determine what the actual goal of the government is from its repeated statements that it has stopped the boats (Assuming that they are not, in fact, just lying for political gain. Sadly this is a very real possibility that this government has a definite track record of doing).

Historically, the objection to boats have been exclusively racist. Stopping the brown hordes from invading. No more mussies, etc. Racism has become much more overt and pronounced since Pauline Hanson came onto the scene and John Howard mainstreamed her views in order to snatch votes (For this sin alone, John Howard deserves to die with a whole durian shoved up his arse).

Likewise, crime figures have repeatedly demonstrated that they are not as much of a threat as, say, a man with a southern cross tattoo (This has not stopped every single example of asylum seeker crime from being reported on the front page though).

Finally, these policies are exclusively aimed at maritime arrivals, who are predominantly brown, as opposed to the much larger number of people who overstay visas and come in by plane, many of whom are white.

Thus, from the governments statements, we can conclude that it is not, in fact, about preventing deaths at sea. That such a goal is in fact simply a smokescreen to disguise an openly racist policy to keep brown people from arriving in Australia.

Which side of the issue you come down on is a fairly good barometer of how racist you are.

What I posted was in response to the discussion going on here, not the broad community discussion. I agree 100% with what you've written here.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 10:26

CATTASTIC: Mar 31, 2010; ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Everybody be quiet.
Micallef is on.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 10:33

Graic Gabtar: Dec 19, 2014; squat my posts

SynthOrange posted:

Are you certain of this? Our government helped Sri Lanka quash a UN inquiry into war crimes in exchange for help against refugees.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/23/australia-secured-asylum-deal-by-staying-silent-on-rights-abuses-sri-lanka-pm?CMP=share_btn_tw

Bloody heck. It's always questions, questions, questions. Why do I feel I'm the first person to visit this place in years?

You're asking about a slightly different thing here - and you're not going to like the answer.

A Sri Lankan politician says we did and that could be complete poo poo. Like he has nothing to gain from giving the last guy a kick on the way out? On this occasion you believe a scumbag politician because he feeds the exact line you want to hear? OK.

Alternatively, it could be true - and that's were we will probably diverge. It might be unfortunate but if it gives us more than what we lose from a policy perspective then these are the decisions we vote in Governments to make. The current global asylum seeker shenanigans fucks Australia over big time so I can see why a Government would cut a deal. That might seem abhorrent to people but that's poo poo we do.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 10:36

starkebn: May 18, 2004; "Oooh, got a little too serious. You okay there, little buddy?"

Graic Gabtar posted:

The current global asylum seeker shenanigans

Can you please explain what you mean when you said this?

# ? Mar 11, 2015 10:45

Graic Gabtar: Dec 19, 2014; squat my posts

starkebn posted:

Can you please explain what you mean when you said this?

The "system" is not representative of the problem. It's being gamed to Australia's disadvantage.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 10:49

Drugs: Jul 16, 2010; I don't like people who take drugs. Customs agents, for example - Albert Einstein

Drugs posted:

"drink my piss craig"

# ? Mar 11, 2015 10:51

Graic Gabtar: Dec 19, 2014; squat my posts

quote:

Joe Hockey says people could use super savings as a 'shock absorber'

Treasurer Joe Hockey has suggested that people should be able to use their super savings as a "shock absorber" over their lives, because it is their savings so "arguably they should be able to access" them.

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-po...311-141esm.html

gently caress Joe. The only thing that should be used as a "shock absorber" is your chin you pea-brained hack.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 10:53

Zenithe: Feb 25, 2013; _{Ask not to whom the Anidavatar belongs; it belongs to thee.}

Graic Gabtar posted:

gently caress Joe. The only thing that should be used as a "shock absorber" is your chin you pea-brained hack.

I take offence at your violent demeanor and therefore disregard your argument entirely.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 11:04

hiddenmovement: Sep 29, 2011; "Most mornings I'll apologise in advance to my wife."

Zenithe posted:

I take offence at your violent demeanor and therefore disregard your argument entirely.

Easily his best post imo

# ? Mar 11, 2015 11:06

Sulla Faex: May 14, 2010; No man ever did me so much good, or enemy so much harm, but I repaid him with ENDLESS SHITPOSTING

Need to make a warning sign mandatory for all posts worth skipping.

:siren:

graic galbraitlror response ahead :siren:

was a good idea but i think what's really going to protect us most is :siren:

threadid=3703560 :siren:

# ? Mar 11, 2015 11:09

SadisTech: Jun 26, 2013; Clem.

Drugs posted:

# ? Mar 11, 2015 11:09

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

Sulla-Marius 88 posted:

threadid=3703560

The only warning sign you need tbh

# ? Mar 11, 2015 11:11

Graic Gabtar: Dec 19, 2014; squat my posts

Never used this thing before. :siren:

# ? Mar 11, 2015 11:16

Murodese: Mar 6, 2007; Think you've got what it takes?
We're looking for fine Men & Women to help Protect the Australian Way of Life.

Become part of the Legend. Defence Jobs.

I get the feeling if Graic was Minister for Immigration we'd still be eating lettuce in aspic and discussing the culinary delights of bovrille

# ? Mar 11, 2015 11:24

Avshalom: Feb 14, 2012; by Lowtax

Fart, fart, fart

# ? Mar 11, 2015 11:28

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# ? May 20, 2024 17:12

Graic Gabtar: Dec 19, 2014; squat my posts

Murodese posted:

I get the feeling if Graic was Minister for Immigration we'd still be eating lettuce in aspic and discussing the culinary delights of bovrille

Oh poo poo no. It would be a honey chicken and aussie pizza nation.

Seriously though I would love to be the Minister for Immigration. Shake it up some. Try to sort this loving mess out.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 11:30

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