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Plague of Hats posted:Are you talking about Shannon Applecline? He's a "he" as far as I know. Seems you're right. I just assumed Shannon was a girl's name.
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Mar 11, 2015 11:23
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PurpleXVI posted:I don't know, but Birthright had its own, simplified, ruleset for mass combat, effectively completely separate from the D&D rules. It was really very neat and I hardly think it would've even needed upgrading. I played in a Birthright campaign for over a year. We had a handfull of mass combat events (5+). I recall the group I was with being disappointed by the lack of balance in the mass combat card mechanics. It seemed that the game was balanced around "level 1" archers, spearmen and knights, but quickly got out of control when you had units higher than level 1. This is from what I remember. We briefly considered looking at the warhammer rules for a more balanced fantasy wargaming system (  ) but then we decided to abstract the mass combat and focus on what our characters were doing instead.I like Birthright, but if you want to see some poo poo, check out the revised/optional rules for making leylines in the Book of Magecraft. I read technical papers for a living and that poo poo was way too boring for me. The rest of Book of Magecraft is really well done. Regarding Pathfinder: I can't speak to the mechanics at all, but Pathfinder does have some good writing and interesting settings that get overlooked. City of Strangers is a fantastically unique setting. I cannot recommend it enough for off the wall ideas that work. Magnimar, City of Monuments is less so but still very good. The Curse of the Crimson Throne and Kingmaker adventure paths have a lot of unique ideas. Guide to the River Kingdoms is interesting as well. The criticism that Golarion is a kitchen sink world is valid. But so is Forgotten Realms (2nd and 3rd edition). Pathfinder wanted their flagship world to be all inclusive to fit any story and this is how they decided to do it.
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Mar 11, 2015 12:08
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Blockhouse posted:I've heard enough horror stories about pathfinder rules to chase me off but on the other hand the dumb throw-everything-in setting sounds exactly like something I'd like. Should I look into it? Make decisions for me, TG chat.
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Mar 11, 2015 12:49
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I don't know how kitchen sink could be a criticism but I was raised on Final Fantasy as my primary fantasy setting so if a world doesn't have at least two of the following (guns, magitech, aliens, robots, and a not-Japan) then it just can't hold my interest.
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Mar 11, 2015 12:51
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I don't know about their narrative impact in the setting, but I know rules-wise guns are pretty lovely in Pathfinder. So're bows, really. If you're interested in just the setting, Pathfinder's is pretty mediocre and you should look elsewhere, or you might as well just make up whatever you want yourself.
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Mar 11, 2015 12:53
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That's what I've been working on but maaaan being creative is hard
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Mar 11, 2015 12:54
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Plague of Hats posted:So're bows, really. Bows are great in Pathfinder. Thanks to the manyshot change, you can mix it with rapid shot, deadly aim, and clustered shots to pincushion things to death at range and not have to deal with the horrible reality that moving more than five feet destroys your sole reason to exist as a non-caster. Or if you're going melee, be a Path of War class and learn to love the ability to have nice things.
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Mar 11, 2015 13:05
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Blockhouse posted:I don't know how kitchen sink could be a criticism but I was raised on Final Fantasy as my primary fantasy setting so if a world doesn't have at least two of the following (guns, magitech, aliens, robots, and a not-Japan) then it just can't hold my interest. Same here, to be honest. I think it's mostly a side-effect of growing up in the '90s for me, but Tolkienesque fantasy doesn't grab me because I'm so used to my fantasy settings being so much more weird and cool. I use a kitchen-sink setting so that my players can zero in on the thing that interests them and run with it. They've gone from hijacking airships in sky-cities to dungeon-crawling out in the wilderness to fighting corporate strikebreakers in a factory town. I can just throw out hooks and see what they're into that week. For me a kitchen sink setting is a big draw because it appeals to my style of GMing and also lets me steal from it if I just want to run the thing in my home setting.
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Mar 11, 2015 13:08
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Helical Nightmares posted:I played in a Birthright campaign for over a year. We had a handfull of mass combat events (5+). I recall the group I was with being disappointed by the lack of balance in the mass combat card mechanics. It seemed that the game was balanced around "level 1" archers, spearmen and knights, but quickly got out of control when you had units higher than level 1. This is from what I remember. We briefly considered looking at the warhammer rules for a more balanced fantasy wargaming system ( ...level 1 units? What? Units did not have levels as such, as I recall it. All I remember is some improvised rules for "levelling up" veteran units or designing your own nation's specialists, ranger units, etc., by shuffling points around, from the Book of Regency, that was basically a tome of houserules released online years after Birthright was basically a dead thing. Or are you talking about having access to non-generic units, like the various pre-existing nations' unique cavalry and infantry troops, vs access to just plain peasant militias and light cavalry? As for a lack of balance... try engaging skeleton regiments with anything but the toughest available units, your troops will basically be unable to break them outside of the luckiest draws possible, so you better hope you've either got some seriously tough cavalry/heavy infantry or that you've got a mage who can hurl some war spells around, otherwise the undead will just march at you inexorably, chewing through unit after unit until eventually defeated. Blockhouse posted:I don't know how kitchen sink could be a criticism but I was raised on Final Fantasy as my primary fantasy setting so if a world doesn't have at least two of the following (guns, magitech, aliens, robots, and a not-Japan) then it just can't hold my interest. Basically if a setting tries to involve everything it sometimes ends up lacking any sort of flavour at all, it just becomes a generic brown muddle, not to mention that trying to balance swords, laser guns, magic, psionics and also some fifth setting-specific thing against each other is also often a fool's game. So either you end up with completely stupid reasons why a longsword is equal to a plasma rifle or the balance is just completely out of whack and some options really aren't options at all. So there's a pretty good reason why "kitchen sink" can be a criticism: not that it's a bad thing in itself, but that it very, very often tends to bring bad things with it. PurpleXVI fucked around with this message at 13:14 on Mar 11, 2015 |
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Mar 11, 2015 13:11
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PurpleXVI posted:...level 1 units? What? Units did not have levels as such, as I recall it. All I remember is some improvised rules for "levelling up" veteran units or designing your own nation's specialists, ranger units, etc., by shuffling points around, from the Book of Regency, that was basically a tome of houserules released online years after Birthright was basically a dead thing. Or are you talking about having access to non-generic units, like the various pre-existing nations' unique cavalry and infantry troops, vs access to just plain peasant militias and light cavalry? "Level 1 units" I'm refering to were the basic archer, cavalry and infantry. I'm not using the correct terminology; I don't remember it.
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Mar 11, 2015 13:14
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Helical Nightmares posted:"Level 1 units" I'm refering to were the basic archer, cavalry and infantry. I'm not using the correct terminology; I don't remember it. No, no, it's fine. I was just puzzled and thought maybe you had your systems mixed up or were using house rules. But yes, I agree, the balance definitely needed some work in places(see the aforementioned skeletons basically rocking the gently caress out of everything despite being incredibly cheap for mage regents to conjure up, compared to normal units, especially in light of their zero maintenance), and some parts of the actual ruling rules needed a few tweaks or clarifications, but by and large I felt like Birthright was really close to a both simple and functional system. Not so vague that the nation ruling stuff was just a tacked-on thing, but also not so obsessed with simulating minutiae and realism that you needed degrees in sociology and economics to run a nation.
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Mar 11, 2015 13:16
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I've been trying to figure out FATE so I can understand Tianxia; why wouldn't FATE work for a computer game? It seems weird to dismiss the possibility out of hand. It's a keyword based system, right? It'd end up as much an adventure game as a CRPG, or maybe it'd end up being like Scribblenauts. Is it the the lack of a defined setting?
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Mar 11, 2015 14:07
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Once upon a time, I wrote mass combat rules for D&D 4th, which was just a case of using the combat engine that was already there and severely reducing movement speeds and ranges to simulate larger distances. All the various units would otherwise just use the basic monster math for attack damage and stuff. There were a few other minor rules, like attaching a PC to a company and getting some sweet extra abilities based on your role and power source. But honestly, 4e was basically built for this sort of thing.
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Mar 11, 2015 14:23
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Has anyone experienced a player being an rear end in a top hat about the 4 hour rest time of elves? (D&D 3.5) We have a player who uses that four hour rest and then crams as much into the day as he can. He calls the DM and talks for hours having essentially a mini-session about what he does during the time the party isn't awake. The DM is getting tired of it and has been trying to come up with a way to essentially say "gently caress you. You have to sleep with the party." But hasn't come up with a way yet. My googling tells me Pathfinder got rid of that? If that's the case we can probably just add that rule in. The guy is playing a Pathfinder class ("the game is so much better than 3.5 we should play that instead" type of player) so if that's the case he should be okay with losing that ability. Any ideas?
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Mar 11, 2015 14:27
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Rockopolis posted:I've been trying to figure out FATE so I can understand Tianxia; why wouldn't FATE work for a computer game? It seems weird to dismiss the possibility out of hand. It's the fact that Fate's "keywords" are about interpretation. Yeah you can just have an aspect that means "I'm the strongest in the land", but that can come in handy in situations other than just lifting things or hitting things. You could use it to intimidate people, to impress people, to have someone challenge you to a contest of strength, and so on. Aspects mean more that just the text. The only way you could do that in a video game would be to have predefined aspects.
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Mar 11, 2015 14:29
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Len posted:Has anyone experienced a player being an rear end in a top hat about the 4 hour rest time of elves? (D&D 3.5) We have a player who uses that four hour rest and then crams as much into the day as he can. He calls the DM and talks for hours having essentially a mini-session about what he does during the time the party isn't awake. The DM is getting tired of it and has been trying to come up with a way to essentially say "gently caress you. You have to sleep with the party." But hasn't come up with a way yet. Just have him submit it in writing, no more than five hundred words.
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Mar 11, 2015 14:48
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Len posted:Has anyone experienced a player being an rear end in a top hat about the 4 hour rest time of elves? (D&D 3.5) We have a player who uses that four hour rest and then crams as much into the day as he can. He calls the DM and talks for hours having essentially a mini-session about what he does during the time the party isn't awake. The DM is getting tired of it and has been trying to come up with a way to essentially say "gently caress you. You have to sleep with the party." But hasn't come up with a way yet. It shouldn't be a rules issue- the DM should talk to him and explain that he has a life and schedule outside the game so he can't be spending additional time doing these special 1 on 1 sessions. There's a reason this character joined the party in the first place as opposed to going it alone so he should want to wait around for them.
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Mar 11, 2015 14:52
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Len posted:Has anyone experienced a player being an rear end in a top hat about the 4 hour rest time of elves? (D&D 3.5) We have a player who uses that four hour rest and then crams as much into the day as he can. He calls the DM and talks for hours having essentially a mini-session about what he does during the time the party isn't awake. The DM is getting tired of it and has been trying to come up with a way to essentially say "gently caress you. You have to sleep with the party." But hasn't come up with a way yet. Just tell him to stop hogging the limelight, really the only thing to do here is to get the player to understand that he's loving up everyone else's fun. Trying to discourage him with a rule change or whatever won't change his mentality, only the outlet for it, and he'll probably still get on everyone's nerves as well as being pissy about the change because he doesn't understand why it was necessary. Like, have you guys tried just talking to him about it?
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Mar 11, 2015 14:58
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Potions of Speed, to keep the rest of the party moving at that pace.Evil Mastermind posted:It's the fact that Fate's "keywords" are about interpretation. Yeah you can just have an aspect that means "I'm the strongest in the land", but that can come in handy in situations other than just lifting things or hitting things. You could use it to intimidate people, to impress people, to have someone challenge you to a contest of strength, and so on. Aspects mean more that just the text. Yes? Isn't that the same kind of tradeoff you have to make bringing any TRPG to the computer, regardless of system?
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Mar 11, 2015 15:05
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Yeah, but the thing about aspects is that they're freeform and completely player-defined, not that you pick them off a list.
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Mar 11, 2015 15:23
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I'd play a game like that, though. A bunch of games already do things vaguely like that: For instance, Guild Wars 2 and Mass Effect both have you answer questions about your background, and your answers unlock things in the story. It'd be sweet to see a game gove you a big list of aspects and have the story branch according to your choices. It wouldn't be Fate per se, but it'd be cool. It'd take a poo poo-ton of writing, though.
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Mar 11, 2015 15:31
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I'd play a game in the Double Cross setting. Make it kinda like Prototype maybe.
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Mar 11, 2015 15:42
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PurpleXVI posted:Honestly, that's the case for all D&D editions, the whole thing peaked, fluff-wise in 2E. Planescape, Birthright, Dark Sun, Spelljammer, Ravenloft. Any versions of them after that point seem to have taken a few crippling blows to the head and some weird changes for no good reason, or just never get revived. I'm personally really sad we never got a Birthright for 4E, the two seem like they'd have fit together pretty well. You forgot Al-Qadim. HOW COULD YOU?!??!? 
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Mar 11, 2015 16:03
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Blockhouse posted:I don't know how kitchen sink could be a criticism Kitchen-sink doesn't mean "has weird things like aliens and guns," it means "throws every cliché into the pot with zero regard for any kind of originality, thematic consistency, or quality;" that's why people use it as criticism.
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Mar 11, 2015 16:09
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Waffleman_ posted:I'd play a game in the Double Cross setting. Make it kinda like Prototype maybe. Prototype gameplay with Persona's visual novel bits for interacting with Loises would be the best.
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Mar 11, 2015 16:22
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Plague of Hats posted:It came from a lot of places in the late 70's and early 80's. That's a little unfair, though, because back then everyone was throwing just whatever into a book, and thought "Use whatever you want, it's all optional." Except people are dumb about that kind of stuff, and the players of the 80's grew up to write the completionist-style RPGs of the 90's where the trend really reached its nadir. It's the most interesting part (to me) of modern games: the progression of design from imaginary, abstract group toys to a shared experience with a clearly-articulated social contract. Early designers didn't understand that "the GM is the law" wasn't often sufficient, and it's sort of fascinating, like a dog chasing its tail.
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Mar 11, 2015 16:29
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Blockhouse posted:I've heard enough horror stories about pathfinder rules to chase me off but on the other hand the dumb throw-everything-in setting sounds exactly like something I'd like. Should I look into it? Make decisions for me, TG chat. Imagine if every individual element present was executed in the most boring and cliche way possible. Then you have Golarion, world of Shining Paladin God, Angry Devil God, Fantasy America, Fantasy Nazis (Who Are Totally Neutral And Just Misunderstood And Have Cool Uniforms), etc.
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Mar 11, 2015 17:00
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Ratpick posted:Prototype gameplay with Persona's visual novel bits for interacting with Loises would be the best. I just really like DX's setting and wanna see something that takes place in it.
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Mar 11, 2015 17:01
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True Brujah were the best thing to come out of Vampire: the Masquerade, which isn't surprising since they were featured in the best book for it.
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Mar 11, 2015 17:02
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quote:The question each publisher has to ask themselves when they create an RPG in the post-OGL/D20 world is this: Is my game so much better than an OGL/D20 option that I want to force my customers & players to pay a tax to play that game, and will those people perceive the value I'm offering and voluntarily submit to that taxation? I picture this guy wearing a tricorne hat when he writes reviews.
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Mar 11, 2015 17:10
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Evil Sagan posted:I'm thinking about starting a Kickstarter to keep Foo fed and sheltered for a few years so he can focus exclusively on running AW. 
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Mar 11, 2015 17:12
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Mormon Star Wars posted:True Brujah were the best thing to come out of Vampire: the Masquerade, which isn't surprising since they were featured in the best book for it. Brujah have the spirit of the FSN Archer that a mass produced recent faker can often manage to beat the ever loving fawk of an ancient original.
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Mar 11, 2015 17:13
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Turns out being the Flash is much better than controlling time crap lol
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Mar 11, 2015 17:14
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Night10194 posted:Imagine if every individual element present was executed in the most boring and cliche way possible. Then you have Golarion, world of Shining Paladin God, Angry Devil God, Fantasy America, Fantasy Nazis (Who Are Totally Neutral And Just Misunderstood And Have Cool Uniforms), etc. Who are the Nazzys? I'm haven't looked at a Pathfinder book in like 2 years.
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Mar 11, 2015 17:21
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Have the GM tell him his character took up scrimshaw and he leaves carved knickknacks everywhere you travel and can trade them to pedlers for secret peddler knowledge. That would be the thing the elf should do. Like if he is at a brothel after wenching he scrimshaws the headboard into a masterwork headboard and people are like wow where did it come from. I had a warforged who did that and other crafting things that totally did not disrupt the game and could have like 4-6 hours of work done on them a night after he did he watch shift.
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Mar 11, 2015 17:29
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Fallorn posted:Have the GM tell him his character took up scrimshaw and he leaves carved knickknacks everywhere you travel and can trade them to pedlers for secret peddler knowledge. That would be the thing the elf should do. Like if he is at a brothel after wenching he scrimshaws the headboard into a masterwork headboard and people are like wow where did it come from. I had a warforged who did that and other crafting things that totally did not disrupt the game and could have like 4-6 hours of work done on them a night after he did he watch shift. "The party is now on the run from assassins sent by the Guild of Scrimshawmen, who are angry that the elf is practicing the ancient and secret art of scrimshaw without their permission."
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Mar 11, 2015 17:33
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FishFood posted:Who are the Nazzys? I'm haven't looked at a Pathfinder book in like 2 years. I assume Cheliax, who are just straight up evil. I have no idea where the "lawful neutral" thing is coming from other than people being annoyed that you didn't get to take down House Thule (real subtle here) in the adventure path set in Cheliax. Which Paizo got no end of crap for so now they're doing a French Resistance AP about destroying the fantasy nazi government in late 2015.
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Mar 11, 2015 17:42
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Night10194 posted:Imagine if every individual element present was executed in the most boring and cliche way possible. Then you have Golarion, world of Shining Paladin God, Angry Devil God, Fantasy America, Fantasy Nazis (Who Are Totally Neutral And Just Misunderstood And Have Cool Uniforms), etc. Oh, and Fantasy Gypsies. Can't forget the Fantasy Gypsies.
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Mar 11, 2015 17:45
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Len posted:Has anyone experienced a player being an rear end in a top hat about the 4 hour rest time of elves? (D&D 3.5) We have a player who uses that four hour rest and then crams as much into the day as he can. He calls the DM and talks for hours having essentially a mini-session about what he does during the time the party isn't awake. The DM is getting tired of it and has been trying to come up with a way to essentially say "gently caress you. You have to sleep with the party." But hasn't come up with a way yet.
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Mar 11, 2015 17:51
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Mormon Star Wars posted:"The party is now on the run from assassins sent by the Guild of Scrimshawmen, who are angry that the elf is practicing the ancient and secret art of scrimshaw without their permission." That would no joke be one of the most badass things that could happen in a campaign imagine the party's reaction.
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Mar 11, 2015 17:51
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