Muffiner posted:

Sandwichet Ghawwar: you go to buy a steak sandwich. You get sold a steak sandwich. Unbeknownst to you, the vendor has tied the steak in the sandwich to a string, and yoinks out the steak just as you take the first bite out of the sandwich, reselling it in another 'steak sandwich' to the next trusting schmuch to come along.

Grouchio posted:

I'm surprised that nobody's yet mentioned that the 2015 Knesset Elections are today.

Grouchio posted:

I'm surprised that nobody's yet mentioned that the 2015 Knesset Elections are today.

Toplowtech posted:

Well because the european catholic powers spent a few century starting wars against them and massacring the smaller sects (i mean read about the waldesians), the protestant people who stayed weren't really encouraged to go into splinter mode.

FlamingLiberal posted:

Yeah that's the other problem: in reality it's going to be about how far to the right the government will be. Even the marginalized leftist parties aren't all that keen on liking the Palestinians.

Phlegmish posted:

That, and also because Protestant states would regularly violently suppress the 'wrong' kind of Protestant, particularly Anabaptists and Unitarians. Calvin at the very least allowed the Geneva city council to execute several of his theological opponents for heresy. Even Lutherans and Calvinists barely managed to tolerate each other after the first stages of the Reformation.

Al-Saqr posted:

why should people care? it's a rotating chair of racists and the next huge massacre/war/oppression will follow no matter who's in charge.

Al-Saqr posted:

why should people care? it's a rotating chair of racists and the next huge massacre/war/oppression will follow no matter who's in charge.

quote:

Palestinians in Ramallah Expect Little to Change, Whoever Wins
RAMALLAH, West Bank — Elections in Israel? Abu Ahmad shrugs.
by Diaa Hadid

“They are all the same,” he said as he waited for passengers to board the bus he drives for a $2.30 ride to Aboud, a village 31 miles away.

“Likud, Labor, Yisrael Beiteinu — all of them work for Israel, not for the Arabs,” said Mr. Abu Ahmad, 63, echoing a popular refrain among Palestinians.

He said he did not think Israel’s policies toward Palestinians would change, regardless of whether a center-left or right-wing coalition came to power. And he said he would not welcome new peace talks, because the negotiations that have already been held, on and off since 1993, have not made Palestinians any better off; rather the opposite.

“Remember the days of Peres and Rabin?” he said, jabbing his nearly extinguished cigarette in the air for emphasis, referring to two left-wing Israeli leaders of the past. “What they did for us? They only made promises, and we got nothing but poverty.”

A passenger nodded in agreement. Another, leaning on the door, counted on his fingers the four Israeli settlements that have been built around Aboud, a process that continued regardless of which party was in power.
In a nearby shop selling traditional Palestinian embroidery, the shopkeeper, Sana al-Maridi, was just as cynical in her outlook. “An ugly face, a pretty face — underneath, they are all ugly,” Ms. Maridi, 52, said of the Israeli left and right, as a college student tried to bargain down the price of a $19.90 clutch to $12.50.

“You say, maybe if the left came to power, it would be better,” she said. “But under that ‘maybe’ we had Oslo,” an allusion to the Oslo peace accords of 1993 and 1995. “And they destroyed us for 20 years.”

Some Palestinians see the election of a conservative Israeli government as in their interest, if only to increase international pressure against its occupation.

“I think there is a significant minority of Palestinians who think that the Labor Party gives a pretty face, a deceiving face, of Israel,” said Ghassan Khatib, vice president of Birzeit University outside Ramallah. “But Likud shows its real face.”

In an electronics shop selling colorful, cheap smartphone covers and portable speakers, a 29-year-old salesman named Mohammed said he had not given the elections much thought, though he suspected the outcome would somehow affect his life.

Asked how he felt about the fact that Israelis in the Jewish settlements surrounding Ramallah were allowed to vote in the election, but the Palestinians inside the city could not, Mohammed smiled. “That’s the policy of the occupiers,” he said.

Goatman Sacks posted:

On the other hand, there's a prime chance that someone who won't literally cause world war 3 might be elected.

spacetoaster posted:

I don't see why people think baptists are an American thing. Germany is full of evangelical baptists.

Fairly passive posted:

Another day of mysterious closures and paranoia here in Ash Sharqiyah. Stormy weather isn't helping the mood.

Al-Saqr posted:

dude can you be more specific about the 'paranoia'? nobody's mentioned anything to me yet.

Zeroisanumber posted:

quote:

RAMALLAH, West Bank — Elections in Israel? Abu Ahmad shrugs.
by Diaa Hadid

“They are all the same,” he said as he waited for passengers to board the bus he drives for a $2.30 ride to Aboud, a village 31 miles away.

“Likud, Labor, Yisrael Beiteinu — all of them work for Israel, not for the Arabs,” said Mr. Abu Ahmad, 63, echoing a popular refrain among Palestinians.

He said he did not think Israel’s policies toward Palestinians would change, regardless of whether a center-left or right-wing coalition came to power. And he said he would not welcome new peace talks, because the negotiations that have already been held, on and off since 1993, have not made Palestinians any better off; rather the opposite.

“Remember the days of Peres and Rabin?” he said, jabbing his nearly extinguished cigarette in the air for emphasis, referring to two left-wing Israeli leaders of the past. “What they did for us? They only made promises, and we got nothing but poverty.”

A passenger nodded in agreement. Another, leaning on the door, counted on his fingers the four Israeli settlements that have been built around Aboud, a process that continued regardless of which party was in power.
In a nearby shop selling traditional Palestinian embroidery, the shopkeeper, Sana al-Maridi, was just as cynical in her outlook. “An ugly face, a pretty face — underneath, they are all ugly,” Ms. Maridi, 52, said of the Israeli left and right, as a college student tried to bargain down the price of a $19.90 clutch to $12.50.

“You say, maybe if the left came to power, it would be better,” she said. “But under that ‘maybe’ we had Oslo,” an allusion to the Oslo peace accords of 1993 and 1995. “And they destroyed us for 20 years.”

Some Palestinians see the election of a conservative Israeli government as in their interest, if only to increase international pressure against its occupation.

“I think there is a significant minority of Palestinians who think that the Labor Party gives a pretty face, a deceiving face, of Israel,” said Ghassan Khatib, vice president of Birzeit University outside Ramallah. “But Likud shows its real face.”

In an electronics shop selling colorful, cheap smartphone covers and portable speakers, a 29-year-old salesman named Mohammed said he had not given the elections much thought, though he suspected the outcome would somehow affect his life.

Asked how he felt about the fact that Israelis in the Jewish settlements surrounding Ramallah were allowed to vote in the election, but the Palestinians inside the city could not, Mohammed smiled. “That’s the policy of the occupiers,” he said.

OwlBot 2000 posted:

Reuters posted:

Syria's state news agency SANA said on Tuesday its air defenses brought down a U.S. surveillance plane in the coastal province of Latakia.

"Syrian air defenses brought down a hostile U.S. surveillance plane in northern Latakia," SANA said in a bulletin, without giving further details.

It was the first such incident since the U.S.-led coalition began carrying out air strikes against the hardline militant Islamic State group in Iraq and Syria last summer.

Cat Mattress posted:

Sooo... Now that Syria has officially opened hostilities against the coalition, will there be retaliations against the regime's forces?

Cat Mattress posted:

Sooo... Now that Syria has officially opened hostilities against the coalition, will there be retaliations against the regime's forces?

Xipe Totec posted:

If I shoot down your military aircraft bombing my country, this is me 'opening hositilities' towards you?

The way you guys speak is really weird to someone not immersed in propaganda 24/7

Al-Saqr posted:

uhhh, no?

the gulf played a key role in the region by financing the fight against nationalism, secularism, leftism, communism, in the cold war, bankrolling an eternal war against Iran in the 80's, spreading the most reactionary and lovely interpretation of islam that's super subservient to dictators yet also super obscurantist and socially silly, who happily bankroll the destruction of the only shot the arab world ever had at democracy, bankrolling military regimes to kill democracy, monopolizing the entire media of the arab world to ensure no pesky 'free thought' takes root, propping up the western arms industry by buying weapons their too incompetent to use except internally, etc.

Israel is the aircraft carrier, while the gulf is the banking arm of oppression in the middle east. utterly indispensable for western interests in the fight to keep the Arab world backwards and in ruin.

if I were the west I wouldn't even dream of having a better ally.

Xipe Totec posted:

If I shoot down your military aircraft bombing my country, this is me 'opening hositilities' towards you?

The way you guys speak is really weird to someone not immersed in propaganda 24/7

emanresu tnuocca posted:

You can respond to my arguments directly and see how that aren't invalidated by anything said here, though I could see how it's more convenient to make these sort of statements in a different thread instead.

Cat Mattress posted:

The drone in question was apparently a surveillance plane, not a bomber.

Nevertheless, my understanding of the situation wrt. airstrikes in Syria was that the coalition would only attack Daesh (and other terrorist groups like JaN) and leave the regime alone as long as the regime did not hamper these operations. So Syria boasting through its national news agency about shooting down a US drone seems like breaking this unwritten agreement.

Xipe Totec posted:

yeah, again such 'understanding' only makes sense to others immersed in the same 'thinking' as you (such as this forum)

to people outside of this it looks weird, especially your enthusiasm for more violence from The Coalition

Al-Saqr posted:

Drones (if that what the plane was) are still in a kind of mystery grey area where it doesn't automatically mean a state of war. does it? I mean the Iranians managed to bag a pretty important and advanced drone but that didn't cause an incident.

if it was Piloted however then I'm not sure, but I think they'll look the other way.

Xipe Totec posted:

yeah, again such 'understanding' only makes sense to others immersed in the same 'thinking' as you (such as this forum)

to people outside of this it looks weird, especially your enthusiasm for more violence from The Coalition

mastershakeman posted:

Somehow I feel Germans would understand baptists considering what happened in Munster.

Volkerball posted:

Islamic State territory hasn't been Syria for 4 years.

Xipe Totec posted:

If I shoot down your military aircraft bombing my country, this is me 'opening hositilities' towards you?

The way you guys speak is really weird to someone not immersed in propaganda 24/7

quote:

For Maher, the fight is an existential one against an enemy whose brutality justifies the harshest tactics. Aware of what would befall them if they were captured, his militia routinely executes prisoners. "The hardcore ones, we kill. What else can we do?" he says. Any Sunnis who remain in the area meet the same fate. "We treat them like Daesh. Either they leave their houses and flee, or they're killed in the fight."