|
I know it's impossible but if Bibi is somehow passed over to head the next coalition I eagerly await the following meltdown
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2015 19:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 14:41 |
|
|
SNAKES N CAKES posted:http://www.jpost.com/Israel-Elections/Rivlin-begins-marathon-consultations-394641 With Iran negotiations ongoing, the PA teetering on the brink of death, Obama visibly annoyed at Netanyahu, and a week-long national holiday just two weeks away, it's not really a good time for Israel's government to spend too long figuring itself out and putting itself together.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2015 19:24
|
|
|
Forums Terrorist posted:I know it's impossible but if Bibi is somehow passed over to head the next coalition I eagerly await the following meltdown I would gladly give away MIGF's firstborn to make this come true.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2015 19:41
|
|
|
Doflamingo posted:I would gladly give away MIGF's firstborn to make this come true.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2015 21:50
|
|
|
Meanwhile, in the US:quote:Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa) challenged Rep. Steve Israel (D-N.Y.) to say it to his face in a tweet Saturday. Let's hope this doesn't weaken Obama's negotiating position.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2015 22:00
|
|
|
Avshalom posted:oh ariel Girls Out West has gotten weeeeeiiiirrd. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2015 22:40
|
|
|
Obama speaks about Israel/Netanyahu:quote:WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama is operating under the assumption that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu does not support the creation of a Palestinian state, despite the Israeli leader's post-election efforts to recast himself as amenable to a two-state solution. Gotta admit, that's quite a bit harsher than I expected him to say publicly.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2015 23:20
|
|
|
DaveWoo posted:Obama speaks about Israel/Netanyahu: I really don't know a whole lot about American politics or about how good of a president Obama really is or what his foreign policy legacy gonna look like but I gotta say, I kinda like the guy.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 00:59
|
|
|
DaveWoo posted:Obama speaks about Israel/Netanyahu: Jesus. Those are some strong words from the sitting President, as Israel goes.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 01:07
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:Jesus. Those are some strong words from the sitting President, as Israel goes. The guy's hero and role model is MLK. Netanyahu's crack about Arab voters pushed his buttons hard.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 01:20
|
|
|
Obama is pretty goddamn ignorant about Israel if he thinks that Israel was ever built on the premise of democratic equality and fairness, I don't know what science fiction he's been reading if he thinks that's part of Israel's 'Tradition'. he wont do anything for real though, that's for sure. Then Again, he does call Sisi's Egypt a 'moderate step forwards for stability and democracy' so I'm not surprised he's living in fantasyland in regards to the nature of certain governments. Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Mar 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 01:26
|
|
|
Al-Saqr posted:Obama is pretty goddamn ignorant about Israel if he thinks that Israel was ever built on the premise of democratic equality and fairness, I don't know what science fiction he's been reading if he thinks that's part of Israel's 'Tradition'. Yes, Al Saqr, because the leader of the free world is clearly more ignorant on what constituents democratic principles, than a random gulfstate'r.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 01:30
|
|
|
My Imaginary GF posted:Yes, Al Saqr, because the leader of the free world is clearly more ignorant on what constituents democratic principles, than a random gulfstate'r. Being denied freedom makes you much more acutely aware of what freedom is than when you take it for granted and get jaded and cynical about it, a good post.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 01:39
|
|
|
Al-Saqr posted:Obama is pretty goddamn ignorant about Israel if he thinks that Israel was ever built on the premise of democratic equality and fairness, I don't know what science fiction he's been reading if he thinks that's part of Israel's 'Tradition'. He's a politician first, and as such knows which side his AIPAC is buttered on. If Obama truly spoke his mind about the situation I imagine it'd be far harsher.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 01:46
|
|
|
Al-Saqr posted:Obama is pretty goddamn ignorant about Israel if he thinks that Israel was ever built on the premise of democratic equality and fairness, I don't know what science fiction he's been reading if he thinks that's part of Israel's 'Tradition'. Have you gone to any of the '48 Arab forums to see why they voted in droves for the Joint Arab List whom you said "doesn't represent them" yet? 
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 01:50
|
|
|
SyHopeful posted:He's a politician first, and as such knows which side his AIPAC is buttered on. If Obama truly spoke his mind about the situation I imagine it'd be far harsher. I guess so. But from what I've read on Obamas personality from people who study him is that he's not the type of person to express strong opinions and follow through strongly on them, I remember an article from a while ago about how he's a passive lead-from-behind type. Absurd Alhazred posted:Have you gone to any of the '48 Arab forums to see why they voted in droves for the Joint Arab List whom you said "doesn't represent them" yet? 1) I didn't say that the Arab list doesn't represent the '48 Palestinians who have Israeli citizenship, I said the system itself doesn't represent them. 2) A Palestinian MK says that the state doesn't represent them and is in active discrimination against them:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEHk1bLJCBw Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Mar 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 01:50
|
|
|
Al-Saqr posted:Obama is pretty goddamn ignorant about Israel if he thinks that Israel was ever built on the premise of democratic equality and fairness, I don't know what science fiction he's been reading if he thinks that's part of Israel's 'Tradition'. He's playing the political game and for the first time since Bush 41 it's not a complete champagne blowjob for Israel.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 01:50
|
|
|
Actual contentish: I'm recovering from my trip so I'm not going to give any full Israeli Family Political Opinions, but I will say that at this point in time, quite a few of my folks still think Israel's image problem is just because Hasbara isn't good enough. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 01:52
|
|
|
Absurd Alhazred posted:Actual contentish: I'm recovering from my trip so I'm not going to give any full Israeli Family Political Opinions, but I will say that at this point in time, quite a few of my folks still think Israel's image problem is just because Hasbara isn't good enough. I'll bring this up to my supervisors.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 01:53
|
|
|
Al-Saqr posted:I guess so. But from what I've read on Obamas personality from people who study him is that he's not the type of person to express strong opinions and follow through strongly on them, I remember an article from a while ago about how he's a passive lead-from-behind type. Well sure, but expressing and having strong opinions are quite different. Obama's a smart cookie. Remember how he got Putin to take responsibility for Syria's chemical weapons? That was masterful, and I'm not a big fan of the guy.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 01:57
|
|
|
quote:Staunch supporters and swing voters: Meet the people who chose Netanyahu Not particularly surprising, but it should help combat the notion that right wing voters are stupid or misinformed. SNAKES N CAKES fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Mar 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 01:57
|
|
|
SyHopeful posted:Remember how he got Putin to take responsibility for Syria's chemical weapons? That was masterful, and I'm not a big fan of the guy. errr.... wasn't that a huge political setback since he accidentally gave the Russians and Syrians the wiggle room they needed to escape NATO bombardment?!
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 02:00
|
|
|
Herzog would have given the Arabs two ministerial portfolios! 
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 02:01
|
|
|
SNAKES N CAKES posted:Not particularly surprising, but it should help combat the notion that right wing voters are stupid or misinformed. Should it? The second Intifada might have started under Barak's labor administration but it lasted all through Sharon's Likud administration, in which King Bibs was finance minister, the same administration in fact that enacted the gaza disengagement for which Bibi voted in favor (four times). These guys know jack poo poo, they blame Labor for the Intifadas although the first one broke out in the late 80s under Yitzhak Shamir's likud administration. And of course protective edge had the most Israeli casualties since the second lebanon war (in which Olmert's Kadima was in charge, again not labor ). This notion of "Netanyahu the defender of Israel" is borne out shoddy knowledge of history and Netanyahu's own rhetoric about Oslo being the root of all of Israel's security problems. It's nonsense. And indeed, Herzog never promised anyone from the Joint Arab List any ministerial positions or has ever indicated that they'd join his coalition, and in fact Aymen Odeh chairperson of the Joint List stated that they will not sit in a 'zionist coalition', so that's also rather ignorant.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 02:12
|
|
|
Al-Saqr posted:errr.... wasn't that a huge political setback since he accidentally gave the Russians and Syrians the wiggle room they needed to escape NATO bombardment?! Naw, he knew the general populace is weary of war and didn't want to send in the troops, so he set a low bar for conditions (give up chemical weapons) and when Syria and Russia jumped the hurdle he could claim he accomplished something of substance without putting US troops into direct combat.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 02:22
|
|
|
SNAKES N CAKES posted:Not particularly surprising, but it should help combat the notion that right wing voters are stupid or misinformed. Stupid and misinformed is a lot more generous than the alternative.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 02:38
|
|
|
Al-Saqr posted:errr.... wasn't that a huge political setback since he accidentally gave the Russians and Syrians the wiggle room they needed to escape NATO bombardment?! Given that he had taken the decision to bomb to Congress, where it was about to die and deal the administration a humiliating and potentially crippling setback, he basically had to take the Russian deal.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 03:23
|
|
|
How long does it generally take for a coalition to form? Only familiar with the cobbled wreck that is a Madisonian Republic.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 04:23
|
|
|
Aurubin posted:How long does it generally take for a coalition to form? Only familiar with the cobbled wreck that is a Madisonian Republic. Well according to this Netanyahu is hoping to have one formed within two or three weeks.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 04:26
|
|
|
DaveWoo posted:Obama speaks about Israel/Netanyahu: The reason that Israel's government keeps up the appearance of wanting a two state solution isn't for the people who don't care either way and the people who don't believe them. It's for the people who do care and do believe that they want a two state solution, which happens to be enough people to matter. Give them a really solid reason to no longer believe and either they have to no longer care or they no longer believe. In the same vein if they act like they believe for political reasons, something like this gives an excuse to let down the facade a bit.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 04:47
|
|
|
New Division posted:Given that he had taken the decision to bomb to Congress, where it was about to die and deal the administration a humiliating and potentially crippling setback, he basically had to take the Russian deal. He only took it to congress because he KNEW it would die there unless Republicans put their money where their mouth was. When Russia and Syria latched onto Kerry's comment it provided a face saving way for all 3 groups out of that particular aspect of the conflict and left the American right wing fuming mad. Hardly a political defeat for the Obama administration, regardless of what McCain or Graham would have to say about it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 04:52
|
|
|
Chadderbox posted:He only took it to congress because he KNEW it would die there unless Republicans put their money where their mouth was. When Russia and Syria latched onto Kerry's comment it provided a face saving way for all 3 groups out of that particular aspect of the conflict and left the American right wing fuming mad. Hardly a political defeat for the Obama administration, regardless of what McCain or Graham would have to say about it. He took it to congress because it would get defeated which would have totally nullified the right's claim to be strong on national defense or being the cause for "justice" in the world. Putin and Assad agreeing to unilateral disarmament of CW was still a win for Obama but it wasn't the one he was ultimately looking for. I mean yeah he's a centrist and isn't even remotely close to his left leaning promises... but you don't go from being a state senator to president of the US in the span of 12 years without being a loving masterful politician that knows how to work deals to his favor even if they're not 100% of what he wants. The only real fault I have with his presidency is that it took him way too long to recognize the extent of how batshit the right wing went when a black man was living in the white house and that a very large portion of the US only said they weren't racist when they very clearly still are.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 05:49
|
|
|
A Winner is Jew posted:He took it to congress because it would get defeated which would have totally nullified the right's claim to be strong on national defense or being the cause for "justice" in the world. Putin and Assad agreeing to unilateral disarmament of CW was still a win for Obama but it wasn't the one he was ultimately looking for. I mean yeah he's a centrist and isn't even remotely close to his left leaning promises... but you don't go from being a state senator to president of the US in the span of 12 years without being a loving masterful politician that knows how to work deals to his favor even if they're not 100% of what he wants. The only real fault I have with his presidency is that it took him way too long to recognize the extent of how batshit the right wing went when a black man was living in the white house and that a very large portion of the US only said they weren't racist when they very clearly still are. I agree they weren't looking or hoping for a unilateral disarmament when they started the whole thing, but they were happy to get it. Despite the whole "Wow Kerry just blew it" narrative that made it's way through the news right after it happened, I have to imagine the White House was pleased as punch that Putin/Lavrov/Assad jumped on it like they did.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 06:07
|
|
|
1337JiveTurkey posted:The reason that Israel's government keeps up the appearance of wanting a two state solution isn't for the people who don't care either way and the people who don't believe them. It's for the people who do care and do believe that they want a two state solution, which happens to be enough people to matter. Give them a really solid reason to no longer believe and either they have to no longer care or they no longer believe. In the same vein if they act like they believe for political reasons, something like this gives an excuse to let down the facade a bit. Yeah, I have to respect Obama for playing politics as best he can to try and put real pressure on Netanyahu and Israel. There's decades of baggage and politics surrounding America's involvement with Israel and Palestine, you have to navigate that very carefully and constructing a narrative where the current Israeli Prime Minister has revealed himself as not a credible partner in the peace process is part of that. He has the incredibly challenging job of getting people to distinguish between Israel as a whole and the Israeli government as headed by Netanyahu, since making that distinction is the only way to build support. It's a little interesting since this is the kind of stuff people are actually talking about when they argue about politicians supporting Israel. Just about every American politician will say they support Israel, but that's clearly just a product of the overwhelming beltway consensus. Real "support" means turning a blind eye to incidents like this because the politician in question also doesn't care about a two-state solution and thinks it's just convenient cover for Israel to carry out the slow destruction of the Palestinians, while the accused enemies of Israel are the ones who will seize an opportunity to hold Israel accountable in the unlikely case that it appears. The best legacy Obama could realistically achieve on Israel/Palestine would be to widen the diplomatic gulf between Israel and America on the subject of the two state solution enough that Hillary won't be able to walk it back entirely. Implementing some kind of new Middle East peace plan that deliberately acknowledges that the current Israeli government has failed to live up to its side of the bargain would destroy the credibility of any effort by the next administration to plaster over the differences and claim the two-state solution is still being fairly negotiated by all parties. Or the PA collapses before summer, all hell breaks loose and Hillary inherits an utter quagmire. Who knows!
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 07:23
|
|
|
Al-Saqr posted:Obama is pretty goddamn ignorant about Israel if he thinks that Israel was ever built on the premise of democratic equality and fairness, I don't know what science fiction he's been reading if he thinks that's part of Israel's 'Tradition'. Never assume that what comes out of a politician's mouth is what they really think. The "only democracy in the Middle East" talking point Israel likes to use is very effective, and Americans widely believe it (despite the fact that it isn't true). By saying that the way he did, he was openly threatening to tear down that talking point. SNAKES N CAKES posted:Not particularly surprising, but it should help combat the notion that right wing voters are stupid or misinformed. Why are you saying that? Literally more than half the quotes you posted boiled down to "I voted Likud because I've always voted Likud and I'm not going to change my team now no matter what", and half of the remainder said they had to vote right-wing because leftists are idiot race-traitor communists who would destroy the country.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 08:06
|
|
|
I thought the multiple football comparisons were especially telling. The sort of people who would consider voting for their elected representatives to be analogous to cheering for their team are not what I'd call informed or conscientious citizens.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 10:56
|
|
|
Back to the Israeli elections for a sec: did we talk about Herzog offering Kachlon everything but the kitchen sink, up to and including rotation as PM? Because holy poo poo. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 10:57
|
|
|
quote:Socially speaking, I’m against socialism, believe in working and making money, not supporting unions. I’m for privatizing the whole country.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 11:38
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:The "only democracy in the Middle East" talking point Israel likes to use is very effective, and Americans widely believe it (despite the fact that it isn't true). lol Would have been interesting to see the usual suspects spin a Herzog victory and a ruling coalition that included the Joint List. They would have scrambled to figure out how to say 'Uncle Tom' in Arabic.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 12:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 14:41 |
|
|
عم توم, it's not hard
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 13:04
|
|