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You've pretty much got it. You can't remove a vdev from a pool, and shuffling things around becomes even more difficult when you run out of places to plug in discs to do it. Some other raid technologies allow you to add or remove discs as needed. People expecting to slop in another drive in a year should not use ZFS.
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Mar 20, 2015 20:00
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ZFS cannot do vdev expansion by adding more disks to a vdev, because it needs something called block pointer rewrite. Like you pointed out, you can add more vdevs, but the problem with this is the wear-leveling (or more appropriately, the lack thereof). ZFS does however support expanding vdevs by replacing all the disks (automatically with the autoexpand property, if your pool was created after v15 - else you have to export it and import it). Block pointer rewrite is also what you need to actually defragment your pool outside of using zfs send | zfs receive to other storage (*) if you get excessive pool fragmentation (which you shouldn't get, if you have sensible write behaviour in your applications, as just about the only thing that can cause fragmentation is, for example, a torrent downloading at slow speeds/in chunks while other data is written elsewhere). *: This can be any kind of storage such as BDs (which are, though only by a small margin, the cheapest and most secure offline data-retention per-GB provided you seal it in a UV-tight enclosure), harddisk(s), tape drives or any number of off-site backup solutions.
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Mar 20, 2015 21:58
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Well before I get too into ZFS using non-ecc ram, just made a purchase on eBay for 32gb ecc registered  Not too bad for ddr3 under $140.Guess I should memtest the crap out of this for hours huh?
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Mar 20, 2015 22:08
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I'm playing with FreeNAS in a virtual machine, and everything looks like it's working just fine, but the one thing that keeps giving me trouble is the whole users and groups thing. Basically I'm a Windows user who wants to setup a system that keeps all files and folders completely invisibly hidden from all users until they log in with their username and password, at which point they have full access to their designated portion of the drive. Are there any how-to's that cover this? My googlefu has kind of failed me on this one.
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Mar 20, 2015 23:16
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bp_rewrite seems to be a dead project. No one wants to tackle it. I keep hearing about it since at least 2008, and not even Oracle bothered yet. That said, they're finally working on enabling vdev removal over at OpenZFS. Soon you'll be able to ditch single disk vdevs, mirrors or RAIDZ arrays that have been added by mistake or if you want to rejig things, assuming you have enough free space on the other vdevs. http://blog.delphix.com/alex/2015/01/15/openzfs-device-removal/
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Mar 21, 2015 02:42
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vdev removal seems like a fairly odd scenario but it's what you'd probably have to do to clean up after adding expansion to a vdev without swapping out all the drives in the raidz vdev first. For example, you start with a 4-disk raidz1 of 1 TB disks and two years later want to get some more space but don't want to just double the capacity with another 4-disk 2 TB array. I'm trying to expand my storage with 4TB drives but boy did $/GB hit a floor for a while, so I'm thinking of just grafting on some more 2TB drives into one of my zpools as a stopgap until the 8TB+ monsters hit retail channels. Also, anyone know anything about the 5TB whitelabel drives at Amazon? Looks like they're Toshiba given nobody else makes 5 TB last I saw, but these are price competitive with 4 TB disks it seems, what's the catch? Are they even worse than Seagate drives or something?
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Mar 21, 2015 03:51
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One reason mentioned was to reverse accidental additions of disks by loving up command lines. The other scenario it makes sense is NAS in home. Or yours, where one might expand an array temporarily with a cheap mirror, that needs to be ditched in future.
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Mar 21, 2015 13:01
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As I've been thinking about what kind of server to build, I've been looking at workstation-to-NAS transfer speeds, and it seems like they're all limited by the speed of your router or switch, a lot of which usually only see real world transfer rates of about around 50 MBp/s or so, even though gigabit has a theoretical max of 125 MBp/s. Do you guys find that rate to be fast enough? Has anybody been able to integrate their server with their workstation in a way that transfers files faster?
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Mar 21, 2015 16:32
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Pretty much any gigabit switch will do close to 1Gbps between 2 ports. It's when you want to do multiple gigabit transfers at once you have to dig thru specs to determine how much they can handle.
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Mar 21, 2015 17:46
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Yeah, even on cheap consumer grade switches and crappy Realtek GbE NICs you should be able to get well above 50MB/s if you're not limited elsewhere (i.e. HDD speeds). I can consistently get over 110MB/s from my SSD to my file server.
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Mar 21, 2015 17:53
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GreatGreen posted:As I've been thinking about what kind of server to build, I've been looking at workstation-to-NAS transfer speeds, and it seems like they're all limited by the speed of your router or switch, a lot of which usually only see real world transfer rates of about around 50 MBp/s or so, even though gigabit has a theoretical max of 125 MBp/s. I am running Infiniband on from my ZFS nas to my Hyper V server. My VMs get an in VM performance of 800MB sec reads and 500MB sec write with async off. With Async on the performance is 180 -200 MB sec writes. This is on a mirrored SSD pool with a capacitor SSD as my log device. From my normal data disks wire speed is normal. 125MB sec easily, pool performance is over 220 MB sec. E: Switch is an Airport Extreme, the older one. Mr Shiny Pants fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Mar 21, 2015 |
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Mar 21, 2015 21:28
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Coming in here blind and I apologize if it was in one of the many posts but I was going to get a 4tb WD Red with some kind of inexpensive swappable Sabrent Lay Flat enclosure. I heard about a Load Cycle Count issue with some of the WD Reds (and that was basically the only issue) but I also read there was some kind of WD utility you could run to fix it or slow the parking heads or whatever. (this poo poo is above my head a little.) Is this still the recommended way to go?
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Mar 22, 2015 00:44
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Feenix posted:Coming in here blind and I apologize if it was in one of the many posts but I was going to get a 4tb WD Red with some kind of inexpensive swappable Sabrent Lay Flat enclosure. I think you mean WD Greens and you can adjust it with wdidle
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Mar 22, 2015 01:29
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Don Lapre posted:I think you mean WD Greens and you can adjust it with wdidle I found forums taking about Reds having the LCC issue and successfully using some WD app to change the park times from 8 seconds to 300. The utility/app is WD5741
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Mar 22, 2015 01:43
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Don Lapre posted:I think you mean WD Greens and you can adjust it with wdidle I think he's actually referring to the oddball batch of Reds last year (or maybe it was 2013) where they had timers like the greens due to a firmware mistake on that run.
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Mar 22, 2015 01:44
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I have one of those and didn't notice until this (this now only has stuff I'm ready to lose):code:
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Mar 22, 2015 02:21
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Yea, I had to change the idle timer on a couple 4TB Reds from last year. They were going nuts parking the heads, but the WD utility fixed it and I haven't had an issue since. You'll know right away if they've got the bad firmware, I've got a drive with 18k hours and a load cycle count of 51, and one with 5800 hours and 1933 load cycle count. The first is a 2TB Red, and the second is a 4TB Red , the second one I didn't catch the parking issue for a few hundred hours.
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Mar 22, 2015 02:29
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PitViper posted:Yea, I had to change the idle timer on a couple 4TB Reds from last year. They were going nuts parking the heads, but the WD utility fixed it and I haven't had an issue since. You'll know right away if they've got the bad firmware, I've got a drive with 18k hours and a load cycle count of 51, and one with 5800 hours and 1933 load cycle count. The first is a 2TB Red, and the second is a 4TB Red , the second one I didn't catch the parking issue for a few hundred hours. All that said, it was easy enough to fix it sounds like, and the Reds are still totally recommended? [Edit] is it overkill to get the reds? My primary function will be a single 4tb drive in a lay-flat enclosure holding all my movies and tv shows. Feenix fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Mar 22, 2015 |
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Mar 22, 2015 02:48
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Looking for a no-frills, 2-bay NAS to get a RAID1 fileserver / Plex server set up. Nothing fancy with Plex, just serving up 720p content to a Roku. I've been eying the QNAP TS-251, but it seems like it might be overkill for what I want. I'm having a hard time gauging the CPU power of the different QNAP/Synology NASes, since they span a lot of different architectures, families, etc.. Any recommendations on how/where to look?
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Mar 22, 2015 06:40
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SopWATh posted:What does this mean? I've been buried with work and haven't responded to this yet. From my experience, almost any onboard consumer NIC is going to suck if you are looking at high performance on a gigabit network. I have a Silicon Dust HD Home Run that takes a Cable Card and streams it across a network. I've tried onboard Realtek and Intel and both will drop frames and lose the buffer on live tv playback regardless of CPU or chipset in the box. They also dramatically limited the throughput when I used it as a WIndows fileserver to the tune of like 30-40mb/sec. Changing it out for a hardware intel nic like this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833516167&Tpk=N82E16833516167 alleviated my network issues with live TV and slow file transfers. My desktop has a hardware intel nic built in (Asus Z68) and I can get 110mb/sec to the file server to/from my SSDs.
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Mar 22, 2015 15:24
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mayodreams posted:I've been buried with work and haven't responded to this yet. Id say you got problems elsewhere. Ive used hdhomerun streams on intel hardware nics, lovely realteks, even whatever crap the zotac ad10 had in it with perfect performance and then a usb 10/100 nic after that. I also have no problems maxing out a gigabit connection on my htpc's realtek nic
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Mar 22, 2015 16:01
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Actually now I'm wondering if a bare drive in a single lay flat enclosure (but swappable) is the best solution for my media. Once the drive fills up, I'd still want to keep it connected. Swapping out drives is probably better suited to something like photo / document backups. Are bare drives (like the red) ok to be stored in an anti-static bag for who knows how long? Or is that bad for drives?
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Mar 22, 2015 16:08
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If you are not going to be actively using the drive, it's probably better to go with a cloud storage service like crashplan or even Amazon Glacier or the new Google equivalent.
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Mar 22, 2015 16:28
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I don't know if I agree with that. An old drive sitting on a shelf in an anti-static bag is going to last a good long time.
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Mar 22, 2015 16:34
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Mr Shiny Pants posted:I am running Infiniband on from my ZFS nas to my Hyper V server. My VMs get an in VM performance of 800MB sec reads and 500MB sec write with async off. With Async on the performance is 180 -200 MB sec writes. This is on a mirrored SSD pool with a capacitor SSD as my log device. What does the cost of a setup like this look like?
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Mar 22, 2015 16:47
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Internet Explorer posted:I don't know if I agree with that. An old drive sitting on a shelf in an anti-static bag is going to last a good long time. Are you going to fire it up every 30 days or whatever to test it? I wouldn't want my only backup to be on a drive that hasn't spun up in years. Crashplan's app is designed to only back up stuff you still have locally too, so if you actually wanted to delete it from any sort of live storage, I'd go with Glacier or Google's glacier-like storage.
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Mar 22, 2015 17:59
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IOwnCalculus posted:Are you going to fire it up every 30 days or whatever to test it? I wouldn't want my only backup to be on a drive that hasn't spun up in years. Crashplan's app is designed to only back up stuff you still have locally too, so if you actually wanted to delete it from any sort of live storage, I'd go with Glacier or Google's glacier-like storage. I'm not personally going to be testing anything every 30 days, as that is not my choice of backup.
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Mar 22, 2015 18:09
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So I decided to take an old PC and convert it into a FreeNAS box to basically use as a file server for my Windows 7 machine to play with and learn until I can build an actual RAID box, and I'm running into a weird issue. I was able to setup everything correctly as far as I can tell and map a drive to the Windows share, so that part went well. However, when I'm trying to copy and paste a large Music folder into the FreeNAS drive I noticed something odd. If I keep a Windows Explorer window open along with the File Transfer status window, everything runs smoothly. However, if I close all file Windows Explorer browser windows and minimize the file transfer window, the transfer window will close as soon as it finishes pasting the current file and will stop pasting the rest of the files. Basically this means I have to keep at least one Windows Explorer window open along with the file transfer window for the duration of the transfer. Is this normal or does something sound like it's screwed up or misconfigured? The FreeNAS windows share is a mapped drive on my workstation, and the user account name and password on both my Windows workstation and the FreeNAS server are identical. GreatGreen fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Mar 22, 2015 |
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Mar 22, 2015 18:09
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Ok so let's back up (haha) then... I have a 3tb Seagate drive housing movies and tv shows. It's almost full. (It's also noisy and I'm afraid nearing the end of its life.) I also have a Mac with Time Machine needs, and a wife and son (2 years old) and another on the way (so photos and videos are important.) What would you all recommend for my setup? (I need more space for the movies and shows - and reliability) (I need a big, solid drive for Time Machine (right now that's on a Seagate 2tb Slim which isn't so bad but I don't know their reliability.) Maybe I'm going about this all wrong. I'm open to suggestions.
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Mar 22, 2015 18:24
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Just added a 5th 4tb Western Digital RED drive to my Synology 1813+ running 1 volume in SHR-2. I clicked to expand the volume via DSM, it took it about 36 hours, but the volume didn't expand. The log doesnt say it outright failed, I can paste it needed. Anyone seen anything like this before? 
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Mar 22, 2015 18:38
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GreatGreen posted:What does the cost of a setup like this look like? Well the TS140 was a steal at 250 Euro's , I already had 16GB ecc lying around. The Infiniband cards were 150 Euro's including cable. The SSD's are Samsung 250 GB's and the Log device is a Intel 3500 or something, about 400? All the disks hang off a flashed M1015 which I got new ( Should have ebay'd one). I think 1500 Euro's total? Spread out over a couple of years, the SATA disks came from my Microserver, as did the memory. This is all being managed by OpenIdiana with comstar and ZFS. It is really, really rock solid. I finally admitted to myself I'm a geek, so why try to hide it This all feeds a TS440 running Windows 2012R2 with the ZVols as SRP targets for Hyper-V machines. The regular SATA Zpool is for Time Machine and Windows fileserving. With OpenIndiana's compatibility with explorer's "previous versions" you can browse the snapshots from ZFS making the whole setup pretty slick. It's overkill, but a blast to configure. Mr Shiny Pants fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Mar 22, 2015 |
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Mar 22, 2015 19:26
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On my local Craigslist a DS213j with a 1TB WD Red drive popped up for $140. I'm looking for something to replace an external hard drive connected by USB to a Time Capsule that's connected to our router as our media server as well as a Time Machine backup location and possibly something like Owncloud. This seems like a pretty decent deal, but I wanted to check here since I don't know a ton about this stuff. My main reason for the upgrade is to speed up transfers and usability of our Kodi and "media server" situation.
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Mar 22, 2015 21:19
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Jago posted:If you are not going to be actively using the drive, it's probably better to go with a cloud storage service like crashplan or even Amazon Glacier or the new Google equivalent. What's the new Google equivalent? Edit: nm found it BonoMan fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Mar 22, 2015 |
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Mar 22, 2015 21:44
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Falco posted:On my local Craigslist a DS213j with a 1TB WD Red drive popped up for $140. I'm looking for something to replace an external hard drive connected by USB to a Time Capsule that's connected to our router as our media server as well as a Time Machine backup location and possibly something like Owncloud. This seems like a pretty decent deal, but I wanted to check here since I don't know a ton about this stuff. My main reason for the upgrade is to speed up transfers and usability of our Kodi and "media server" situation. The DS21Xj series are underpowered - at least my DS211j could never exceed 40MB/sec...
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Mar 22, 2015 22:52
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So the OP hasn't been updated since 2012 and I was wondering if there's any other free OS that's better and more stable than FreeNAS out there right now. I've been playing around with FreeNAS on an old PC I had laying around just to see how it works, and it seems like a pretty good solution, but I'm wondering if there's another better free server OS, or even just as good but something else, out there that does basically the same thing. Ideally, all I'm looking for is a server that can be read/written to by machines on the local network, and that has a serviceable user/group account system. I don't really care about accessing my data from outside the house. GreatGreen fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Mar 23, 2015 |
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Mar 23, 2015 22:13
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FreeNAS is still excellent.
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Mar 23, 2015 22:15
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Well that was fast, thanks! Another question if that's cool, and also please forgive my ignorance as I'm still trying to learn about all this stuff... but is it possible to build a PC and use it as a DAS box that uses a ZFS file system, connected directly to your PC? GreatGreen fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Mar 23, 2015 |
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Mar 23, 2015 22:19
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GreatGreen posted:Well that was fast, thanks! That's what the thread is for. I'm not sure what you mean by connected directly. FreeNAS can set up iSCSI targets for you, if that's what you want. I think there is a performance hit involved.
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Mar 23, 2015 22:24
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Thanks for the reply but what do you mean by an iSCSI target?
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Mar 23, 2015 22:28
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How about you describe what you're looking to do exactly (and/or what you mean by connected directly to your PC) and we go from there
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Mar 23, 2015 22:35
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