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quote:However, Ţulę has been discovered by other races of men, and even worse, by the ettins, and naturally they all have arrived in Ţulę, and in their wake comes all sorts of troubles, challenges – and great opportunities for adventure!  Well that's uncomfortable. "AND EVEN WORSE," conveys not only his idea that "other races of men" are bad, but that the reader should already have assumed that.
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Mar 21, 2015 16:19
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| # ? May 9, 2024 17:35 |
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quote:known as Hĺlogaland (translated as «the holy land») Varg, if you're going to write about your language, at least understand it first. Or try to read material written by non-racists. A bit of etymology. The actual origin and meaning is unclear but we ruled out "holy" before Varg was born.
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Mar 21, 2015 16:30
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Nuns with Guns posted:In this case "erasure" is probably being used correctly tho since they're making some cartoonish caricature of native culture that sort of blends iconic bits of all the nations together into a slurry and pours it over an RPG book. On top of Monty Cooke & co. going "pfff fine we'll rewrite it but fyi we don't care about those native americans we offended because we found some that weren't." Which is pretty dismissive of the feelings of someone's heritage. I mean, like, all it ever takes is changing the group identity to instantly show why the belief is wrong. "We have faithfully recreated the dance of this African tribe circa 1830, honoring their heritage with this mascot"
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Mar 21, 2015 19:07
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quote:However, Ţulę has been discovered by other races of men, and even worse, by the ettins Congrats to Ettin for expanding the Great TTG Conspiracy far enough to begin infiltrating people's actual games.
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Mar 21, 2015 21:02
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 Professional
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Mar 21, 2015 21:08
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And of course Monte Cook Games threatens to block people who poke at him back. 
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Mar 21, 2015 21:22
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Okay, can I get some potted biographies on all these people? I hear name after name with a chorus of nods and "yeah that guy would said that because [HINT OF TERRIBLE THING]", and it really makes the conversation hard to follow.
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Mar 21, 2015 21:33
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I still get a smile out of gms blocking me for showing point for point how he is literally the strawman he keeps attacking.
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Mar 21, 2015 21:34
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Rulebook Heavily posted:And of course Monte Cook Games threatens to block people who poke at him back. well, it's not as though he's going to release any competing weird west setting material any time in the foreseeable future, right?
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Mar 21, 2015 21:38
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Loxbourne posted:Okay, can I get some potted biographies on all these people? I hear name after name with a chorus of nods and "yeah that guy would said that because [HINT OF TERRIBLE THING]", and it really makes the conversation hard to follow. gareth skarka is best known for a) not releasing products people gave him good money to create and b) being incredibly obnoxious and wrong any time something lovely happens in the the tabletop roleplaying games industry
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Mar 21, 2015 21:40
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Loxbourne posted:Okay, can I get some potted biographies on all these people? I hear name after name with a chorus of nods and "yeah that guy would said that because [HINT OF TERRIBLE THING]", and it really makes the conversation hard to follow. Gareth Michael Skarka is the fellow behind Far West, a notable and ongoing kickstarter failure. It's going to remain a failure even if it comes out at this point, being years off target, having burned all its bridges and including straight up copied artwork. Skarka is also a huge rear end in a top hat who e-stalks people to tell them he's the real oppressed person and explains things like why there are no natives in his Western game with, well, less than grace. He is of course a close industry buddy of Monte Cook and Bruce R. Cordell, both of whom wrote for D&D for years. Really, it'd be easier to google their names and see just how big these names are in the industry and how influential they are.
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Mar 21, 2015 21:41
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Rulebook Heavily posted:Gareth Michael Skarka is the fellow behind Far West, a notable and ongoing kickstarter failure. It's going to remain a failure even if it comes out at this point, being years off target, having burned all its bridges and including straight up copied artwork. Skarka is also a huge rear end in a top hat who e-stalks people to tell them he's the real oppressed person and explains things like why there are no natives in his Western game with, well, less than grace.
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Mar 21, 2015 21:42
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MadScientistWorking posted:He's also a huge hypocrite too as its not exactly like he hasn't been vocal about issues of racism in the past. Its basically amounts to only his argument is the only valid one. Or, to put a finer point on it, the only valid moral outrage is Gareth's moral outrage. If he doesn't see a reason to be upset about something, then people are just overreacting.
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Mar 21, 2015 22:23
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I'm still amazed he still hasn't produced anything for his backers of Far West. It's always been days away for like years. Edit: Oh, he's still producing bad art 
Gravy Train Robber fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Mar 21, 2015 |
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Mar 21, 2015 22:45
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If you as a business are getting positive reinforcement from Skarka and you protect him from negative comments back, you kind of deserve what you're getting.
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Mar 21, 2015 22:50
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Slimnoid posted:
Big point for everyone on the net: Talking in the third person doesn't make you not that thing.
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Mar 21, 2015 22:50
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It takes some balls to play the "middle-class white guys" card in defense of middle-class white guys. AlsoGravy Train Robber posted:Edit: Oh, he's still reproducing bad art
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Mar 22, 2015 00:12
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Evil Mastermind posted:Or, to put a finer point on it, the only valid moral outrage is Gareth's moral outrage. If he doesn't see a reason to be upset about something, then people are just overreacting.
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Mar 22, 2015 03:11
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FMguru posted:Gareth has a hierarchy of outrage, and at the very top of that pyramid is Mere Fans Talking poo poo To Game Designers. Skarka will take up cudgels against any fan or fans who dare to treat Game Designers with anything other than perfect deference and overweening gratitude. It trumps all other considerations for him, which is why him announcing his unwillingness to keep supporting and defending James "The Grim Raper" Desborough against his critics was such a shock Though only after Des threw in with GamerGate, and still with qualification that amounted to "but I was right about everything else."
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Mar 22, 2015 03:39
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Considering that Des' crazy libel tourism thing was attempted by Skarka months earlier, I'm surprised they didn't get along longer.
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Mar 22, 2015 03:47
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I can't imagine GMS has much stock in the industry anymore apart from those fans who'll stand by his side no matter what.
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Mar 22, 2015 03:59
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Cam Banks seems to keep trying to be his friend, no matter how outright abusive Skarka gets with him.
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Mar 22, 2015 04:14
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Plague of Hats posted:Cam Banks seems to keep trying to be his friend, no matter how outright abusive Skarka gets with him. Which, Cam being a nice guy and all, continues to absolutely mystify me.
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Mar 22, 2015 04:23
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Error 404 posted:Which, Cam being a nice guy and all, continues to absolutely mystify me. Based on recent Twitter stuff, if Cam's still his friend he's got to be on his last nerve.
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Mar 22, 2015 04:44
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Halloween Jack posted:Consider Robin Laws' Hillfolk instead. I love a particular sidebar from Hillfolk, which sums up a necessary thing for the majority of fantasy games: Robin Laws posted:WE DIDN’T CALL IT “HILLMEN,” DID WE?
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Mar 22, 2015 07:52
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dwarf74 posted:You see, apart from the racist and 'moral' trash, this sort of thing is totally my poo poo, but I'm not giving the dude money to mine it for the not-awful bits. Play actual games about historic and mythic Europe, such as Ars Magica, not racist fantasies about a past that never was.
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Mar 22, 2015 23:24
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It can be legitimate to want to play a game about sexism, or in which sexism is a major theme, but that poo poo is so heavy that it should not be the default.
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Mar 22, 2015 23:27
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Bongo Bill posted:It can be legitimate to want to play a game about sexism, or in which sexism is a major theme, but that poo poo is so heavy that it should not be the default. what do you mean by default?
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Mar 22, 2015 23:32
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fosborb posted:what do you mean by default? The theme or subject matter best-supported by the rules.
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Mar 22, 2015 23:35
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I enjoy how L5R RPG does sexism. It acknowledges that in real world Japan, samurai women still had more rights then non samurai, but less than men, then States that in L5R there's no real sexism besides an expectation for kids, which obviously takes more time out of the women. It then added that if a player wants to play in a world that is more sexist in order to prove themselves, defy a sexist landscape and whatever, that can be pretty rad, and you can freely do it. It explicitly calls out adding sexism in order to be able to play characters smashing it, not because you want to be able to Lord over women and be superior. I only played one campaign and it was set in more sexist version of rokugan, where I played a ronin who was the sole survivor of a massacred family, but was offered up as a marriage to a wealthy Crane man instead of trained and given her lands. She ran away, leaving her families lands in Crane possession, and went out to prove herself, train, and eventually take her lands by force. It was a lot of.fun, the character was rad as hell, and I was totally into it. Every time sexism came up my character briefly after would almost always end up showing off how badass she was, shutting people up.
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Mar 22, 2015 23:37
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So Night Witches should be redesigned from the ground up because the exploration of sexism (and queerness) baked into its mechanics is not presented as optional?
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Mar 22, 2015 23:38
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fosborb posted:So Night Witches should be redesigned from the ground up because the exploration of sexism (and queerness) baked into its mechanics is not presented as optional? I have no idea why you are arguing with me about this, or interpreting my posts as the opposite of their intention, which I thought would be perfectly obvious. Some games are further from the mainstream of tabletop gaming activities, which is presumed to be escapist fantasy. It's good that games with other modes exist. They are an option.
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Mar 22, 2015 23:41
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fosborb posted:So Night Witches should be redesigned from the ground up because the exploration of sexism (and queerness) baked into its mechanics is not presented as optional? There's also a difference because Night Witches is designed from the ground up for sexism to be shown as an antagonist with no reality that needs to be proven. This is different from a setting where sexism is baked in as something to weaken and punish women characters, or allow male characters to control/insult/punish/whatever power fantasy word over women. Edit: There's two kinds of sexism in RPGs, there's Well Written Sexism where it's intended to be an obstacle to overcome and defeat, like any antagonist, and there's Bad Sexism where it's intended to let men have a power fantasy where they control women. Edit2: And yes, no sexism is a good default for most games, because most people don't want to deal with real world issues they deal with every day in their escapist fun time games. KittyEmpress fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Mar 22, 2015 |
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Mar 22, 2015 23:45
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Blue Rose doesn't set out to deal with sexism, but the assumptions of romantic fantasy are so different from "mainstream" rpg worlds reactions to its themes can be dismissive, mocking, or even angry -- many of these reactions born out of sexism, such that presenting the game to a larger audience is in effect creating conversations about sexism, even inadvertently. (see just about any time the game is mentioned in this forum) So even if the designers didn't set out to create a game about sexism, and even if people who regularly play it probably aren't thinking about it as dealing with sexism, sexism is still a part of the conversation around the game and, depending on what assumptions people bring to the table they very well might perceive it as dealing with sexism because why else is this setting so different from Conan, Tolkien, etc. And which of these groups gets to determine the game is dealing with sexism by default?
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Mar 23, 2015 00:37
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fosborb posted:So Night Witches should be redesigned from the ground up because the exploration of sexism (and queerness) baked into its mechanics is not presented as optional? Been a bit since I read that stuff but if I remember right the point is overcoming the sexism and bigotry of the world around you. Basically like KittyEmpress said, there's the much more common 'lol -2 STR for women because biotruths right?' sexism that just serves to punish you for making a female character, or there's the kind where sexism is the 'bad guy' and the point of the game is that if you play a female character you're bucking stereotypes and showing people how wrong they are despite pushback from the outside. So basically you either remind people of how poo poo the world can be because ha gently caress em right, or you do it so people can have a power fantasy over being the badass lady/minority/whatever who breaks barriers. Most games do the first, and that's not cool.
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Mar 23, 2015 00:41
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Tatum Girlparts posted:So basically you either remind people of how poo poo the world can be because ha gently caress em right, or you do it so people can have a power fantasy over being the badass lady/minority/whatever who breaks barriers. Most games do the first, and that's not cool.
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Mar 23, 2015 01:08
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dwarf74 posted:What sucks is how often dudes doing the first like to pretend it's really the second. "The -4 strength is your struggle! Overcome your female weakness and show how badass you are despite being a girl!" Yea basically the rule is 'if the thing you're overcoming is how stupid and lovely society is by proving how wrong they are, you're in the clear.' Making the thing you're 'overcoming' is 'no see because you literally are inferior to me, it's part of the laws of nature here' is dumb because what's she supposed to do then, show that hey sometimes a buff lady can be kinda the same as a dude.
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Mar 23, 2015 01:20
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Legends of the Wulin's way of handling it was interesting; there's a 'sexism in society' loresheet. Which explicitly noted: No woman in the wulin actually has to deal with this, because by having entered the wulin, they are outside society and are recognized as a warrior. If you're playing a woman and bought into the loresheet with XP, you -do- have to deal with it, and for some reason you aren't recognized for your warrior prowess. And that could be as far as it goes, you just have to put up with punching a lot of dudes in face for sneering at your kung fu because of your gender. Or you could go deeper, and have to put up with an arranged spouse from your family, and so on. Each bit of additional aggravation had separate buy-in. (The ultimate secret of the lore was the ability to earn extra XP for playing a comic relief hostage-bait character- but you had to bank half of it in a secret pool. Eventually, at a suitably dramatic event in the narrative you'd get to spend all your banked XP at once, on screen, unlocking stuff you'd normally have to train for, and bust out advanced kung fu and kick all the rear end forever)
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Mar 23, 2015 01:47
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Alien Rope Burn posted:I love a particular sidebar from Hillfolk, which sums up a necessary thing for the majority of fantasy games: I'm starting to think that Pelgrane Press is just great at this in general: The Gaean Reach Roleplaying Game posted:You Are Probably Either a Man or a Woman
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Mar 23, 2015 03:24
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TG is the only industry where you can associate with a neo-Nazi convicted murderer and still have a career. Varg was sentenced to 21 years in prison, the same amount as Anders Breivig, and Varg's mother and the neo-Nazis he was associated with had an actual plot to break him out of prison. He hasn't changed much either if the news stories in the last couple of years are true too. EDIT: Their plan to break him out of prison included a terrorist attack on the prison where they blew a hole in the perimeter with dynamite. It wasn't exactly a file in a cake scheme. RocknRollaAyatollah fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Mar 23, 2015 |
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Mar 23, 2015 03:36
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