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Fried Chicken posted:yes, but the specifics on that is that Democrat support has fallen all the way to... 60%. Israel becoming a partisan issue isn't really well born out by the latest polls The recent gallup poll has it at 48% for Democrats?
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Mar 23, 2015 04:19
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gently caress You And Diebold posted:The recent gallup poll has it at 48% for Democrats? How recent? The one from Feb 23rd is where I got the 60% figure http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/Gallup-poll-US-public-support-for-Israel-not-hurt-by-Iran-flap-391934 EDIT: I think you are looking at the wrong figure. quote:According to the poll, Republican support for Israel has increased from 2001 – when some 53% said they sympathized more with Israel than the Palestinians – to 83% this year. Democratic support has grown from 35% in 2001 to 48% this year. Sympathy for Israel vs Palestine is 48%, support for Israel is 60%. Not a real disconnect there, you can support the state and sympathize with the dispossessed side at the same time, it just means you want the state the change. Fried Chicken fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Mar 23, 2015 |
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Mar 23, 2015 04:25
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Joementum posted:Yeah, but at least they're being very open and direct about their homicidal bigotry, unlike Scott Lively, who got 19,378 people to vote for him to be Governor of Massachusetts last year without mentioning his work helping the Ugandan government implement their own version of the "kill all the gays" law or all those books he'd written about how all the Nazis were only genocidal because they were not-so-secretly all gay. And to put that in perspective for us locals: That means you could fill TD Garden with people who voted for him, strap skates to around 100 to put them on the ice, and still have a line out the door of 1,713 people, a line that would easily extend down into the subway with people lining up in the tunnels in pitch black. All people who voted for Scott "Springfield for Hitler" Lively!
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Mar 23, 2015 04:30
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Fried Chicken posted:How recent? The one from Feb 23rd is where I got the 60% figure Yeah just looked at it again, was thinking of the support for it over Palestine. All insane to me that number is below 50 though.
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Mar 23, 2015 04:32
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Joementum posted:Yeah, but at least they're being very open and direct about their homicidal bigotry, unlike Scott Lively, who got 19,378 people to vote for him to be Governor of Massachusetts last year without mentioning his work helping the Ugandan government implement their own version of the "kill all the gays" law or all those books he'd written about how all the Nazis were only genocidal because they were not-so-secretly all gay. I would not be surprised if a good number of those 19,378 people were actually aware of those facts, even to the point of religious ecstasy and/or arousal.
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Mar 23, 2015 04:44
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Cruzapalooza baby!
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Mar 23, 2015 05:35
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Ted Cruz A Time for Truth https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0BgW6ZrsKI
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Mar 23, 2015 13:51
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PDP-1 posted:This lovely thing just popped into my news feed. It's for sure not going to pass, but it's amazing to see it even exists in 2015 and it looks like it'll be legally required to waste a bunch of time and money before it dies. I know I am kind of to the right of the forum, but considering that we do get alot of our values from the KJV, I wouldn't be against allowing sections of it to be read in a literature class to study its effect on general English literature as a whole. Although how is it legal to even gather signatures for implementing a law saying "kill this x group"? Although maybe someone should fallow the guy around in a brownshirt get up saying how they agree with the law and think it should apply to jews as well. Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Mar 23, 2015 |
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Mar 23, 2015 13:52
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http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6905450?1426972456 In an interview, Obama says a decision on overtime pay is imminent. Which is good. Also, he plans to start using his pardon power "more aggressively" so if you were planning any crime sprees, there you go
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Mar 23, 2015 14:39
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Crowsbeak posted:I know I am kind of to the right of the forum, but considering that we do get alot of our values from the KJV, I wouldn't be against allowing sections of it to be read in a literature class to study its effect on general English literature as a whole. In practice if you think it wouldn't be the same kind of thin cover that "teach the controversy" is for creationism, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you.
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Mar 23, 2015 14:43
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In 9th grade my English teacher taught Genesis as a work of fiction.
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Mar 23, 2015 14:47
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Crowsbeak posted:I know I am kind of to the right of the forum, but considering that we do get alot of our values from the KJV, I wouldn't be against allowing sections of it to be read in a literature class to study its effect on general English literature as a whole. Yes, that's a good idea for literary education since so many of the themes in Western literature are drawn directly from those stories. This is already how literature is taught in many curricula and it's also part of the Common Core standards.
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Mar 23, 2015 14:50
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Crowsbeak posted:I know I am kind of to the right of the forum, but considering that we do get alot of our values from the KJV, I wouldn't be against allowing sections of it to be read in a literature class to study its effect on general English literature as a whole. The Bible absolutely deserves a place in any canon of Western literature. It might do a lot of good to expose more people to the history and politics behind its compilation, the bloody conflicts related to its establishment as canonical, the dubious choices behind its translation into English, and so on. If it's studied from a critical and historical perspective, there's no doubt it's an important addition. Unfortunately, in today's political climate, any sober, honest exposure presented to public school students would be pilloried as liberals using the public school system to de-legitimize Our Christian Heritage. Never mind that these historical facts are learned by any priest or pastor in seminary. Stories would get pulled out of context as an uncontroversial pillar of Western literature, which is both more and less than the Bible deserves. Maybe it's best to leave study of the KJV for university.
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Mar 23, 2015 15:01
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PhilippAchtel posted:The Bible absolutely deserves a place in any canon of Western literature. It might do a lot of good to expose more people to the history and politics behind its compilation, the bloody conflicts related to its establishment as canonical, the dubious choices behind its translation into English, and so on. If it's studied from a critical and historical perspective, there's no doubt it's an important addition. Ummmmmmm, how about we just leave the Bible to Sunday School and Seminary and keep it out of public schools and Universities (unless its part of a course/degree that it applies to) thanks. That is, unless you are willing to also include every other holy book. I mean, if we plan to ever include the Bible in school, it cuts to close to an endorsement of religion in school.
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Mar 23, 2015 15:04
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Crowsbeak posted:I know I am kind of to the right of the forum, but considering that we do get alot of our values from the KJV, I wouldn't be against allowing sections of it to be read in a literature class to study its effect on general English literature as a whole. The Bible, particularly KJV, is fantastic literature. The people who want it in schools the most tend to get huffy when you describe it that way, though. My college literature professor spent the portion of class covering Genesis clarifying and reclarifying that she didn't want to step on anyone's toes by reading it as lit rather than scripture, and that was at an ostensibly secular college. For high school, well: Fried Chicken posted:In practice if you think it wouldn't be the same kind of thin cover that "teach the controversy" is for creationism, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you.
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Mar 23, 2015 15:04
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Malmesbury Monster posted:The Bible, particularly KJV, is fantastic literature. The people who want it in schools the most tend to get huffy when you describe it that way, though. My college literature professor spent the portion of class covering Genesis clarifying and reclarifying that she didn't want to step on anyone's toes by reading it as lit rather than scripture, and that was at an ostensibly secular college. For high school, well: It is fantastic literature. But I guarantee if you place it in public school, it will be taught as anything but fantastic literature. Its not the Bible that is the problem, its the people who already want to turn the Public Education system into their personal evangelical seminary.
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Mar 23, 2015 15:11
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CommieGIR posted:Ummmmmmm, how about we just leave the Bible to Sunday School and Seminary and keep it out of public schools and Universities (unless its part of a course/degree that it applies to) thanks. That is, unless you are willing to also include every other holy book. It absolutely does not constitute an endorsement of religion if it's taught in a historical, critical context. Leaving the Bible to only be taught in Sunday school reinforces the idea that it interpretation of it is a solely religious matter. It's absolutely not only a book of religious significance but of critical historical and political significance as well. I agree that it's probably too much to expect public school to give it the proper analysis and weight it deserves, rather than just presenting it as another set of inspirational myths. Edit: Or the curriculum being hijacked to sneak in a religious understanding of the Bible, which had no place in public school, I agree. PhilippAchtel fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Mar 23, 2015 |
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Mar 23, 2015 15:13
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PhilippAchtel posted:It absolutely does not constitute an endorsement of religion if it's taught in a historical, critical context. Leaving the Bible to only be taught in Sunday school reinforces the idea that it interpretation of it is a solely religious matter. It's absolutely not only a book of religious significance but of critical historical and political significance as well. Its not really meant for children, though. Why teach children something which they are unprepared to understand? Best to allow individuals the freedom to learn on their own.
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Mar 23, 2015 15:17
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PhilippAchtel posted:It absolutely does not constitute an endorsement of religion if it's taught in a historical, critical context. It wouldn't be taught that way, even if that was the intended purpose. PhilippAchtel posted:I agree that it's probably too much to expect public school to give it the proper analysis and weight it deserves, rather than just presenting it as another set of inspirational myths. If you attempted to push it as just that, a set of inspirational myths, the uproar would be phenomenal, especially in the South.
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Mar 23, 2015 15:17
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Kids have to study their Bible stories. If they don't they won't realize that Molotov Cocktease is a stand-in for Delilah.
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Mar 23, 2015 15:18
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CommieGIR posted:It wouldn't be taught that way, even if that was the intended purpose.
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Mar 23, 2015 15:19
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My Imaginary GF posted:Its not really meant for children, though. Why teach children something which they are unprepared to understand? Best to allow individuals the freedom to learn on their own. You really are an imbecile. Did you miss the part where the main conclusion of my post was that the Bible is better taught in University? It was at the end, so perhaps you were too exhausted to read that far. CommieGIR posted:It wouldn't be taught that way, even if that was the intended purpose. I think we agree, but we're just talking last each other.
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Mar 23, 2015 15:21
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PhilippAchtel posted:You really are an imbecile. Did you miss the part where the main conclusion of my post was that the Bible is better taught in University? It was at the end, so perhaps you were too exhausted to read that far. Undergraduates are children. Don't teach the whole thing, teach it section by section as needed for literary study. Dickens makes an allusion? Reference the source story and discuss the implications. I do trust America's teachers to be able to handle the issue appropriately. I don't trust America's children to be mature enough to learn torah unguided by a rabbi.
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Mar 23, 2015 15:24
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Book of Esther (I think?) was among the reading materials for an undergrad course in ancient near east history I took. Of course, it was not the only item and it was categorized with stuff like the Enuma Elish and the Epic of Gilgamesh. This was years ago but I still recall my amusement at how much of the bible was an amalgam of pre-existing stuff.
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Mar 23, 2015 15:24
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SCOTUS has refused to hear the Wisconsin voter suppression case
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Mar 23, 2015 15:24
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PhilippAchtel posted:I think we agree, but we're just talking last each other. Ah, fair enough.
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Mar 23, 2015 15:25
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I can’t see it happening but it would be nice if people were taught that even the plausible sounding stuff in the Old Testament is about as historically accurate as the Epic of Gilgamesh or stories about Hercules. I wasn’t even raised religious but for a long time I just sort of assumed that at some point the Israelites were enslaved by the Egyptians. It’s this story that’s just sort of hammered into you culturally. It was kind of interesting (and eye opening,) to learn that even the Old Testament stuff that seems like it’s based on some kernel of truth may have been completely made up.
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Mar 23, 2015 15:26
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Joementum posted:Ted Cruz A Time for Truth Oddly enough this is the first time Ted Cruz has ever frightened me instead of made me laugh, because as insincere and simpering as his face is at all times, he has an interesting and animated speaking voice.
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Mar 23, 2015 15:28
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Fried Chicken posted:SCOTUS has refused to hear the Wisconsin voter suppression case What are the details of the case? I haven't heard about it before and I'm always up for mocking Wisconsin more.
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Mar 23, 2015 15:31
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So I expect people are feeling pretty good about the expansion of gay rights these past few years, marriage in particular. It would be the bright spot in all the other terrible things after all, right? Allow me to dump on that - here is a map and article about the surge of anti-gay legislation at the state level. http://www.vox.com/2015/3/19/8259019/anti-lgbt-bills?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=voxmaps&utm_content=friday
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Mar 23, 2015 15:34
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Boywhiz88 posted:What are the details of the case? I haven't heard about it before and I'm always up for mocking Wisconsin more. From the ACLU: https://www.aclu.org/voting-rights/aclu-seeks-supreme-court-review-wisconsin-voter-id-case https://www.aclu.org/voting-rights/frank-v-walker-fighting-voter-suppression-wisconsin
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Mar 23, 2015 15:36
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FAUXTON posted:Book of Esther (I think?) was among the reading materials for an undergrad course in ancient near east history I took. Of course, it was not the only item and it was categorized with stuff like the Enuma Elish and the Epic of Gilgamesh. Funnily enough, rigorous study of the Bible as itself inspired by other works in a long tradition of Middle Eastern literature does a lot to take the wind out of the Uniquely Inspired By God interpretation. This isn't a problem for literature or history scholars, but any study of the Pentateuch, etc that put them in their proper historical context would be rejected as antireligious, just as evolutionary theory is fought as one "side" of a controversy rather than simply the best theory that fits the facts. Edit: "Facts have a liberal bias" etc. 
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Mar 23, 2015 15:36
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It's weird that there's a whole college made up of pencil neck virgin buzzkill losers.
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Mar 23, 2015 15:36
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Boywhiz88 posted:What are the details of the case? I haven't heard about it before and I'm always up for mocking Wisconsin more. This is the one where voter ID is considered voter suppression. This lets stand the appellate court's reversal and allows voter ID to take effect in Wisconsin as written.
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Mar 23, 2015 15:39
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Fried Chicken posted:So I expect people are feeling pretty good about the expansion of gay rights these past few years, marriage in particular. It would be the bright spot in all the other terrible things after all, right? If the article had better choice of color indicators they could have made Oklahoma a rainbow. I really don't think they'll gain much ground on LGTB-crow laws. Passed laws will be pissed all over in court.
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Mar 23, 2015 15:39
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Illinois republicans want to make university of Illinois a "non public institute of higher education" http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ful...GAID=13&Session
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Mar 23, 2015 15:48
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CommieGIR posted:It wouldn't be taught that way, even if that was the intended purpose. Eh, we also read Genesis as literature in my 9th grade English class in a public high school, in between Paradise Lost and The Odyssey. The teacher explicitly said she wasn't advocating anything about its status as either truth or fiction, just that it was very influential in Western civilization and that it it holds up as a good piece of literature alongside those other works. As an atheist, I thought it worked well, and none of the religious students (of which there were many) had any problems with it. This was in Maryland though.
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Mar 23, 2015 15:49
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Fried Chicken posted:Illinois republicans want to make university of Illinois a "non public institute of higher education" Someone should coin a term for "non public institute of higher education", it would be simpler.
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Mar 23, 2015 15:51
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Fried Chicken posted:Illinois republicans want to make university of Illinois a "non public institute of higher education" Oh wait, that's why.
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Mar 23, 2015 15:55
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Fried Chicken posted:So I expect people are feeling pretty good about the expansion of gay rights these past few years, marriage in particular. It would be the bright spot in all the other terrible things after all, right? I figure it only dumps on anything if you make a map of proposals that pass and survive court challenges. Failed thrashing by shrinking minorities on the wrong side of history is more schadenfreude.
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