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Hope I remember to come back and read all those spoilers when I'm done with the game. Disc 1's done. On to the fun part. 
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Mar 28, 2015 04:57
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Codiekitty posted:Hope I remember to come back and read all those spoilers when I'm done with the game. Better grab a chair and sit down
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Mar 28, 2015 05:21
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Codiekitty posted:Hope I remember to come back and read all those spoilers when I'm done with the game. "fun part"
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Mar 28, 2015 06:09
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FirstAidKite posted:Better grab a chair and sit down 
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Mar 28, 2015 06:29
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Endorph posted:I've seen people not get that, even in the most blatant cases, so. I'm still surprised they actually put that in the game. FirstAidKite posted:Better grab a chair and sit down 
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Mar 28, 2015 06:39
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al-azad posted:Every review has been positive so far, both professional and from players. Between this, Wasteland 2, Divinity, and Torment (hopefully it's just as good) old school PC RPGs are loving back. You mean every one in four being a complete waste of time and money? I really wish there was a way to gift away games on your steam list so I could stop being reminded I spent money on Wasteland 2.
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Mar 28, 2015 06:41
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Disc 2 owns.  There. I said it. The GIA got it right in their retrospective (don't read it if you haven't beaten it!): quote:To complete the story, Disc 2 includes a number of sequences in which Fei simply narrates events from a chair–using text and static illustrations–before the player jumps ahead to the described boss battle or dungeon. Although this decision has always been one of the most commonly criticized aspects of Xenogears, it deserves a reappraisal. Wrapping up the saga via narration is certainly better than how many modern games handle the same situation – excising plot points entirely or cutting off mid-story with a dissatisfying “To Be Continued…”
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Mar 28, 2015 06:44
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"Let me tell you about all these things that might have been interesting if we made a game about them.."
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Mar 28, 2015 06:48
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Codiekitty posted:Hope I remember to come back and read all those spoilers when I'm done with the game.
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Mar 28, 2015 06:49
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Endorph posted:I've seen people not get that, even in the most blatant cases, so. What do you consider blatant? Because as I recall they all end in basically "you spent a long time together", which seems like exactly the sort of deliberately non-specific hand wave the other guy was saying Xenogears avoids. The only example I can think of where it was close to blatant was Elizabeth in Persona 3, because she basically says "look, there's only one reason I'd be asking to see your room, are we gonna do this or not." But even then they step around saying it for some reason.
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Mar 28, 2015 07:02
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I picked up Poke'mon X for my 3ds because I'm going on a trip. Back story: when Poke'mon Blue/Red came out on the original GB, I was a massive Poke'mon fan and especially of the game, but I was a kid, so that was expected. Now as an adult, I'm earnestly trying to enjoy this. I know and have seen lots of adults enjoy Poke'mon games, but I'm just not seeing the appeal. This kinda sucks. Like, if you were to ever play a single modern SMT game, I don't get how you could enjoy this. Moreover, it's practically - almost literally - the same poo poo I played when I was 13 years old. The amount of battle changes have been extremely minimal for a franchise that's going on 20 years old. Story-wise, it's limited and childish. Even Dragon Quest, which is targeted at children in Japan, has much better scope and storytelling than this - and that is no way an insult to DQ. Gameplay-wise, it adds nothing to the table. They've added some mini games that increase bonding between the trainer and the Poke'mon, but it's boring and loving tedious given just how loving much you have to do it. And with over 500 Poke'mon in this game? gently caress that. I just don't get it. Is there something I'm missing? The social aspect maybe?
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Mar 28, 2015 07:02
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Wait, you can bang Elizabeth in Persona 3? Is this a FES-only thing? (Never played FES) Isn't there like, a fairly significant age gap there?
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Mar 28, 2015 07:12
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Erebus posted:The only example I can think of where it was close to blatant was Elizabeth in Persona 3, because she basically says "look, there's only one reason I'd be asking to see your room, are we gonna do this or not." But even then they step around saying it for some reason. If I remember right, Rise "Hands up if you're thinking something dirty" Kujikawa had a pretty blatant one too.
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Mar 28, 2015 07:12
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Himuro posted:I picked up Poke'mon X for my 3ds because I'm going on a trip. Back story: when Poke'mon Blue/Red came out on the original GB, I was a massive Poke'mon fan and especially of the game, but I was a kid, so that was expected. Now as an adult, I'm earnestly trying to enjoy this. I know and have seen lots of adults enjoy Poke'mon games, but I'm just not seeing the appeal. This kinda sucks. Like, if you were to ever play a single modern SMT game, I don't get how you could enjoy this. Moreover, it's practically - almost literally - the same poo poo I played when I was 13 years old. The amount of battle changes have been extremely minimal for a franchise that's going on 20 years old. Story-wise, it's limited and childish. Even Dragon Quest, which is targeted at children in Japan, has much better scope and storytelling than this - and that is no way an insult to DQ. Gameplay-wise, it adds nothing to the table. They've added some mini games that increase bonding between the trainer and the Poke'mon, but it's boring and loving tedious given just how loving much you have to do it. And with over 500 Poke'mon in this game? gently caress that. The only Pokemon game I've ever been able to get into was Pokemon ORAS because they added in a feature to make finding (and re-encountering) uncommon pokemon 1000% less tedious. Otherwise basically any other monster collection game is a better time.
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Mar 28, 2015 07:16
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Baby Babbeh posted:Wait, you can bang Elizabeth in Persona 3? Is this a FES-only thing? (Never played FES) Yeah, it was in FES. Her social links were pretty fun, too, since it was all her wanting to visit various locations and completely misunderstanding how anything worked. I have no idea how old Elizabeth is, but I don't think anyone in the Velvet Room is human anyway. I'd worry first about loving some supernatural being from another dimension before worrying how old she is.
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Mar 28, 2015 07:22
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Himuro posted:I picked up Poke'mon X for my 3ds because I'm going on a trip. Back story: when Poke'mon Blue/Red came out on the original GB, I was a massive Poke'mon fan and especially of the game, but I was a kid, so that was expected. Now as an adult, I'm earnestly trying to enjoy this. I know and have seen lots of adults enjoy Poke'mon games, but I'm just not seeing the appeal. This kinda sucks. Like, if you were to ever play a single modern SMT game, I don't get how you could enjoy this. Moreover, it's practically - almost literally - the same poo poo I played when I was 13 years old. The amount of battle changes have been extremely minimal for a franchise that's going on 20 years old. Story-wise, it's limited and childish. Even Dragon Quest, which is targeted at children in Japan, has much better scope and storytelling than this - and that is no way an insult to DQ. Gameplay-wise, it adds nothing to the table. They've added some mini games that increase bonding between the trainer and the Poke'mon, but it's boring and loving tedious given just how loving much you have to do it. And with over 500 Poke'mon in this game? gently caress that. I love SMT games but SMT combat mechanics are pretty basic and simplistic compared to Pokemon. You don't actually need to master poo poo in Pokemon to finish the story but the people who play it for a hundred hours are playing competitively against other people, not the story mode. Occasionally they're going up against the optional battle challenge modes. The people who are casually play it enjoy collecting their monsters and doing all the minigames and poo poo. Like you're pretty much straight-up objectively wrong here in going "this is the same game I played when I was 13" unless you're discussing the shallowest and most basic view of the mechanics. Pokemon's core competitive combat mechanics are far from perfect but there's a lot of hidden depth and mechanics to it. SMT isn't (and almost never has tried to be) a competitive game and as a result the combat mechanics are designed mostly around fast PvE combat with some light gimmick bosses. Pokemon is the opposite and increasingly geared towards low-level casual play which can extend into higher-level metagame stuff. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Mar 28, 2015 |
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Mar 28, 2015 07:23
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Himuro posted:The amount of battle changes have been extremely minimal for a franchise that's going on 20 years old. Story-wise, it's limited and childish. This is true, and I actually did the exact same thing you did (only played red, was talked into playing X on a bet), so I know where you're coming from. I will say, however, I found it worth finishing because the story just takes a few ludicrous left-turns in the middle and at the very end. I will never get tired of seeing Earth-3 Grant Morrison flip his poo poo when I win a fight. ImpAtom posted:Like you're pretty much straight-up objectively wrong here in going "this is the same game I played when I was 13" unless you're discussing the shallowest and most basic view of the mechanics. Pokemon's core competitive combat mechanics are far from perfect but there's a lot of hidden depth and mechanics to it. Only if you play multiplayer. Let's be frank: if you did what he's doing and I did, and didn't give a gently caress about other players ever? It is the same exact combat with the bare-bones additions of a held item, and a few other damage types to look up on a chart somewhere. It's loving dull. The game is made for children and none of that "hidden depth" ever shows up in the campaign.
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Mar 28, 2015 07:30
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Huh, well thanks for the clarification. Multiplayer was a big thing when I was a kid but it was all local. So you beat the game and then do multi? But I'm sorry, being forced to find depth in an RPG by playing multiplayer is inexcusable to me.
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Mar 28, 2015 07:31
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Himuro posted:But I'm sorry, being forced to find depth in an RPG by playing multiplayer is inexcusable to me. Uh.. okay? Pokemon is quite obviously a social game first and an RPG second gramps.
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Mar 28, 2015 07:36
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DARKSEID DICK PICS posted:Let's be frank: if you did what he's doing and I did, and didn't give a gently caress about other players ever? It is the same exact combat with the bare-bones additions of a held item, and a few other damage types to look up on a chart somewhere. It's loving dull. The game is made for children and none of that "hidden depth" ever shows up in the campaign. Right, and if you play a fighting game just to fight against the AI it ends up being repetitive and simple. That doesn't mean you can't enjoy it but complaining that the mechanics haven't changed because you're only engaging with them on the most basic level is silly. Himuro posted:But I'm sorry, being forced to find depth in an RPG by playing multiplayer is inexcusable to me. Except that has literally been Pokemon's thing from the very beginning. The concept of the social aspects (trading and battling) has been a core part of the franchise since it debuted. I'm not sure why it is 'inexcusible' to you unless you're upset a popular thing isn't catering to your particular desire. Like the original Pokemon was a game released in two parts with the idea that a player literally could not complete the game without trading and battling with other people. Edit: I should note I don't particularly care about Pokemon. I didn't even buy the last game because I don't have the time or energy to devote to competitive multiplayer battles and I don't find the campaign particularly engaging, but getting upset because you picked up a game with a heavy emphasis on social aspects and don't want to interact with the social aspects is just silly. There are people who enjoy Pokemon's campaign but they are people who are playing a casual game where they collect cute monsters and trade with friends, with a helpful burst of nostalgia along the way. They are not looking for anything remotely resembling a hardcore RPG, they just want to collect Pikachu. SMT isn't the game they're looking for. Yokai Watch might be but any English release for that is a good while off. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Mar 28, 2015 |
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Mar 28, 2015 07:37
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"but getting upset because you picked up a game with a heavy emphasis on social aspects and don't want to interact with the social aspects is just silly. " It's not silly at all. Poke'mon is not Diablo. Its campaign is clearly the most advertised part of the game. I not once saw multiplayer or social features being primed as the main reason to play it in any form of advertising or media. More importantly, name a single rpg that does what you just said. Pretty much any rpg worth its salt is mostly about the campaign. There are some rpgs with incredible post-games (Tri Ace games, Dragon Quest games), but their campaigns stand alone and are of quality. The only type of rpg that does what you just described are online rpgs such as MMOs, but Poke'mon clearly isn't an mmo. Monster Hunter also has a burgeoning multiplayer scene and guess what, a loving wicked campaign. So saying it's silly to expect quality without having to beat the campaign in order to play online with some person, when that isn't even the marketed goal of the game, is far from silly - it's actually a reasonable expectation given that's how every other rpg functions. Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 08:03 on Mar 28, 2015 |
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Mar 28, 2015 08:00
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Himuro posted:. I not once saw multiplayer or social features being primed as the main reason to play it in any form of advertising or media. Then you literally did not pay attention. The new social aspects were some of the most advertised features of the new games, including the online features. It is literally one of Pokemon's defining features. Himuro posted:More importantly, name a single rpg that does what you just said. There are a boatload but few are as successful as Pokemon for a variety of reasons. CCG-based RPGs for example like the vast number of Yu-gi-oh or whatever ones. Also a shitload of mobile games in this day and age are designed with the assumption of multiplayer competitive gameplay with a loose campaign. Pokemon is 20 years old at this point and it has been this game for literally all of those twenty years. This is not a sudden unexpected change. You're right that there are not a ton of them. Part of the reason for Pokemon's long-term success is because it is one of the only games offering what it offers on a regular basis. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 08:14 on Mar 28, 2015 |
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Mar 28, 2015 08:03
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ImpAtom posted:Then you literally did not pay attention. The new social aspects were some of the most advertised features of the new games Not quite. I watched the trailers. That's what I do when making a purchase. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNr6wQfNfK4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bki3s5LDF1c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMnwB6neGlY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5FG63P8kmE You're going to have to back that statement up.
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Mar 28, 2015 08:13
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Himuro posted:Not quite. I watched the trailers. That's what I do when making a purchase. http://www.pokemonxy.com/en-us/whats_new/pss/ Literally right there on the website. I also like how you linked literally nothing but sizzle videos. "Well, I watched this E3 video that showed two contextless Pokemon fighting so this means it is an in-depth RPG despite the last 20 years of Pokemon following a nearly unchanging pattern!" Like seriously, it's fine if you don't like the game, but at this point you're upset because the game isn't what you wanted and acting like it's bad that all RPGs are not catering directly to you. poo poo, Pokemon doesn't even cater to me but that doesn't make it bad. It just means I go and play the new SMT game instead. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 08:24 on Mar 28, 2015 |
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Mar 28, 2015 08:15
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Are you being obtuse as gently caress on purpose? Pokemon sells itself on BATTLING YOUR FRIENDS and TRADING WITH PALS, this is the core of the series. In fact, X and Y are as close to a Pokemon MMO you'll ever see, and they did a pretty a drat good job at it.
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Mar 28, 2015 08:20
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For the record, I actually do like it, and it's a lot more exciting than my last attempt to get back into Pokemon (Black 2).
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Mar 28, 2015 09:08
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I mean, the dude doesn't seem upset by this, he(?) straight up just said "Wow, I'm playing through this and gameplay-wise, the combat is real similar to the original game, I expected more". The AI doesn't show any of that off at all. I totally get where this is coming from, because I had the exact same trip. Your on-cart Pokemon experience is not going to diverge much from earlier titles, save maybe in some of the side-content like the video creation or a few minigame arenas. That doesn't make it terrible? It just makes it a primer for RPGs rather than the kind of thing you might really have to rip into the mechanics to progress. If you're going into battle, blasting something with Hydro Pump, and it ends, at what point in all of this are you going to start thinking "Yep, I really need to change up what's going on here and push myself" instead of "Man, this gets tedious"? claw game handjob fucked around with this message at 09:21 on Mar 28, 2015 |
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Mar 28, 2015 09:18
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Himuro posted:For the record, I actually do like it, and it's a lot more exciting than my last attempt to get back into Pokemon (Black 2). quote:I know and have seen lots of adults enjoy Poke'mon games, but I'm just not seeing the appeal. This kinda sucks. Like, if you were to ever play a single modern SMT game, I don't get how you could enjoy this. Yes, I can't imagine why I'd think you didn't like it.
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Mar 28, 2015 09:56
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For what it's worth, I thought Pokemon X/Y were the weakest Pokemon games because it seemed rushed considering it so soon after Gen 5 and removed features that were in previous games and in exchange you got pretty dress up simulator which lasted all of one game before being removed in the Ruby and Sapphire remakes and graphics that still look pretty primitive yet somehow managed to make the 3DS chug pretty badly. Kind of a shame you need X/Y or the Gen 3 remakes to play online now since as far as I heard, the servers for the DS games were shut down. I had a lot of enjoyment from Black/White and their sequels but X/Y was a total wash for me.
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Mar 28, 2015 12:10
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Okay, so far Disc 2 is almost hilarious in how weird it is. It's like having the events told to you by an excited kid. "But then the Solaris death machine showed up and started killing people, and on the way to it Fei ran into that jerk from before? Meanwhile, Bart fought it off by merging his ship with another ship to create THE BIGGEST GEAR OF THEM ALL! Then Citan released some nanomachines into the atmosphere to remove the Limiters on everyone, but then people started turning into monsters! Then the team had a beat up a giant monster, then they released some more nanomachines that fixed everyone, and..." By the way, is Ramsus supposed to be taken seriously? At first it seemed like he was, but now he comes across as a gag villain.
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Mar 28, 2015 15:30
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I didn't think Black 2 was any better, honestly. In fact, it was even more vanilla. The customization in X is a much needed feature and helps give the game something beyond Pokemon monotony. Pokemon probably has the most boring world in an rpg series: all anyone, anywhere talks about is Pokemon in them, making the game world shallow as poo poo. Having a hint of realism by actually talking about and doing normal things like clothes, is a much needed step towards getting beyond the tunnel vision of a Pokemon game, and gives its world actually something to grasp on to, even if it's just clothes.
Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Mar 28, 2015 |
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Mar 28, 2015 15:32
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Himuro posted:The GIA got it right in their retrospective (don't read it if you haven't beaten it!): Holy poo poo when did The GIA come back?! I used to love that site.
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Mar 28, 2015 15:40
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I like the second disc of Xenogears. It's been ages since I played it but I don't remember ever feeling let down by it, by that point I was totally into the story and felt that the balance of gameplay to plot dumping was pretty good. It's a shame they didn't get to make it properly but it was still an engrossing experience
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Mar 28, 2015 15:46
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The weird thing about Pokemon is that it doesn't have bad AI. If they take off the training wheels they can even make the AI cheat relentlessly and become so impossible to beat that it's not any fun. There's just basically no middle ground between the main game's "AI does not know how to switch or deliberately choose its weakness-hitting skills" and the Battle Whatever's "AI reads your moves and counter-predicts them and uses OHKO moves that never miss." B&W2's Hard difficulty was as close as the main part of the series came to having vaguely competent AI. I'd just like to see AI trainers switch out if there's absolutely nothing their pokemon can do to counter the player's and the player's will take them out trivially in one hit. And also to not have six Magikarps. Although at least the guy with six Magikarps has a full team. 
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Mar 28, 2015 17:07
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Dr. Eldarion posted:Holy poo poo when did The GIA come back?! I used to love that site. A couple years ago. It's just small thing for Vestal and his friends to write about games. Check the Twitter.
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Mar 28, 2015 17:34
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Mr. Fortitude posted:because it seemed rushed considering it so soon after Gen 5 ? Gen VI came out 3 years after Gen V. That isn't really "soon". (Which is almost identical to the gap between Gen II and III, actually.)
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Mar 28, 2015 17:49
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Nakar posted:I'd just like to see AI trainers switch out if there's absolutely nothing their pokemon can do to counter the player's and the player's will take them out trivially in one hit. And also to not have six Magikarps. Although at least the guy with six Magikarps has a full team. Specifically, six Magikarps at Lv. 35.
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Mar 28, 2015 17:53
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Codiekitty posted:Okay, so far Disc 2 is almost hilarious in how weird it is. It's like having the events told to you by an excited kid. Yeah, this is why I actually like disc 2. Everything goes completely bonkers and there is no illusions about you having any influence over it. Aside from the so-bad-its-good angle, the powerlessness of the whole thing fits the apocalyptic themes pretty well, so while I would never recommend it to any designer, I'd say it worked out in favor of Xenogears, assuming the player can just laugh at the whole thing. Kinda like Drakengard. Once the endings start rolling it's had to imagine how the whole composition could have worked without the Bad Gameplay™.
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Mar 28, 2015 20:13
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Pillars of Eternity is great for anyone who is too afraid to wander into the Eternity thread. Unfortunately Obsidian's buggy reputation continues to follow them but it is not a complete mess. About on par with a Bioware release. Only one locked out major quest right now to the best of my knowledge and then lots of peculiarities with abilities and mechanics.
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Mar 28, 2015 20:36
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Gibbo posted:You mean every one in four being a complete waste of time and money? PoE does everything right that Wasteland 2 did wrong. It takes all the great parts of Infinity Engine games, but takes care to smooth out all the rough edges they have. The skills system makes sense, and it's hard to screw up your builds. Combat is actually fun where WL2's was a slog, and the game is very clear about how stats play into talents and skills. Honestly, it's the most polished CRPG I've ever played.
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