Grand Prize Winner posted:

So why don't we go after these root causes instead of focusing on a bunch of drat chickens?

I've seen the criminal justice system firsthand, and even in the better parts of CA, it's racist as all hell and overly punitive. Black guys and latinos were doing 5 months on a first offense for things I'd never even get prosecuted for, and that's not even mentioning the lovely plea bargains a bunch of them took. But forget the guys in County, let's focus on making sure cows have enough room to run around.

I've got cousins and uncles and aunts who are facing deportation because of petty bullshit, and we're going to focus on a bunch of livestock?

It's absolutely infuriating to me that the people of this state seem to have prioritized livestock over human beings.

Jakcson posted:

But when I visit California, I think about how horrible things were for me as a child, and I can't help but wonder what kind of a loving monster would want their children to grow up in that sort of environment. Do you guys simply not give a gently caress about LA?

Are they the poors of California or something?

(It also smells bad when you are crossing the border from Arizona to California.)

quote:

In California’s Los Angeles Basin, levels of some vehicle-related air pollutants have decreased by about 98 percent since the 1960s, even as area residents now burn three times as much gasoline and diesel fuel. Between 2002 and 2010 alone, the concentration of air pollutants called volatile organic compounds (VOCs) dropped by half, according to a new study by NOAA scientists and colleagues, published in the Journal of Geophysical Research yesterday.

Grand Prize Winner posted:

So why don't we go after these root causes instead of focusing on a bunch of drat chickens?

quote:

I've seen the criminal justice system firsthand, and even in the better parts of CA, it's racist as all hell and overly punitive. Black guys and latinos were doing 5 months on a first offense for things I'd never even get prosecuted for, and that's not even mentioning the lovely plea bargains a bunch of them took. But forget the guys in County, let's focus on making sure cows have enough room to run around.

I've got cousins and uncles and aunts who are facing deportation because of petty bullshit, and we're going to focus on a bunch of livestock?

It's absolutely infuriating to me that the people of this state seem to have prioritized livestock over human beings.

Grand Prize Winner posted:

So why don't we go after these root causes instead of focusing on a bunch of drat chickens?

I've seen the criminal justice system firsthand, and even in the better parts of CA, it's racist as all hell and overly punitive. Black guys and latinos were doing 5 months on a first offense for things I'd never even get prosecuted for, and that's not even mentioning the lovely plea bargains a bunch of them took. But forget the guys in County, let's focus on making sure cows have enough room to run around.

I've got cousins and uncles and aunts who are facing deportation because of petty bullshit, and we're going to focus on a bunch of livestock?

It's absolutely infuriating to me that the people of this state seem to have prioritized livestock over human beings.

Leperflesh posted:

Better, housing tracts in Arizona tend to landscape based on the arid desert environment, whereas the desert areas of California tend not to.

Leperflesh posted:

We get it, you don't care if animals are tortured.

Jakcson posted:

Did your cousins and aunts and uncles come here legally?

Immigrating to the USA illegally is a crime.

Hitlers Gay Secret posted:

With how much it costs now to come here legally I fully support illegal immigration.

I mean, who else will toil in those farmers fields for pennies on the dollar?

Leperflesh posted:

I'm gonna take a wild guess that you're another one of those idiots who thinks the LA Metro area = California. LA has the worst smog in the country, of course it does, it's a giant metropolitan area with horrible snarls of freeways where everyone drives, and it's a giant geographical bowl where air cannot escape and it almost never rains.

Nevertheless, California has the strictest air quality regulations in the country, bar none; we're doing more about improving air quality than literally everyone else, and have been for decades. And, the vast majority of this very large state is completely smog free. You're talking out of your rear end, and everyone in this thread knows it but you. Once again I'll ask you: what wonderful state do you live in, where the forward-thinking politicians are preparing for the future, and nobody breathes any pollution?

quote:

Scientists analyzing air quality from a recent aircraft campaign and historical data found that ozone pollution in the Los Angeles region declined over the past few decades. Air chemistry also changed, leading to a drop in levels of a compound that contributes to eye irritation.

The improved air suggests California’s policies to reduce emissions had an impact, according to the researchers from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. Pollution comes from vehicles, industries and natural sources like plants.

quote:

Despite a three-fold increase in people and cars in the last 50 years, California’s strict vehicle emissions standards have managed to significantly clear the state’s air, according to new research.

The study also found that Southern California’s air chemistry has changed for the better. The amount of organic nitrates in the atmosphere — which cause smog’s eye-stinging irritation — has drastically fallen off, according to federal researchers.

Ozone and other pollutants have been monitored in the state since the 1960s. Since then the population in Southern California has tripled, as has the number of cars on the road. Nevertheless, tailpipe emissions have decreased.

Jakcson posted:

To keep people out of poverty, sometimes you need to make them work for pennies on the dollar.

FRINGE posted:

So you dont like black people, California, or the working class.

How do you feel about gay people? Muslims? Jimmy Carter?

Leperflesh posted:

We get it, you don't care if animals are tortured. I think you're just frustrated to see laws dealing with things you don't care about, while things you do care about aren't being addressed. We all feel that frustration at times, but it's just a fallacy to argue that we have to stop doing this thing you don't care about, in order for this other thing you do care about to be addressed.

Grand Prize Winner posted:

You're right. I just got a little wound up and decided to play that point to its extreme. I'm currently living in a weirdo green-conservative cultural mileu (Redondo/Manhattan Beach people have some pretty weird ideas), so I have to deal with people who are gung-ho in favor of animal rights while being actively hostile towards the issues I care about (prison reform, labor rights, ease of immigration). It's made me irrationally hostile towards those more moving-space for livestock initiatives. I'll try to be less knee-jerk in the future.

FCKGW posted:

Jakcson you sound like a cool Arizona dude and I'd like to have a brew with you

FCKGW posted:

Hey is sheriff joe still around? We should get that guy to throw that chump moonbeam or 0bummer out of office.

Bobby Digital posted:

Jakcson posted:

I don't think they will ever be able to get Eric Holder out of office.

VVVVV - Have fun when your water supplies dry up before ours. Too bad you guys live so close to such a large body of water...

snap. Maybe y'all will get what you wish for.

I guess it's hard to learn from history sometimes.

Bobby Digital posted:

ComradeCosmobot posted:

I like how the 1917-1921 drought is somehow distinct from the drought which starts literally the following year. (And how 1927 and 2010 somehow mark the end of a drought instead of a temporary respite)

Jakcson posted:

VVVVV - Have fun when your water supplies dry up before ours. Too bad you guys live so close to such a large body of water...

snap. Maybe y'all will get what you wish for.

I guess it's hard to learn from history sometimes.

Sydin posted:

You... you do realize that Arizonia is also in the midst of a historic drought as well, right? In fact your drought is so bad, record rain and snowfall this winter didn't even put a dent in it. You're also much more poo poo at water conservation than we are, so have fun when those ground water reserves are sucked dry and you have literally no fallback.

FRINGE posted:

I'm assuming this is a hamhanded troll, its just had to tell because the Texas suburb-states do have people that dumb in them.

Bobby Digital posted:

Kenning posted:

So when do we start burning down almond orchards? This isn't apropos the AZ troll guy, just something I've been thinking about.

Kenning posted:

So when do we start burning down almond orchards? This isn't apropos the AZ troll guy, just something I've been thinking about.

Jakcson posted:

Immigrating to the USA illegally is a crime.

quote:

On March 17 the Legislative Analyst’s Office of California, the non-partisan state research agency, released a comprehensive report on the high cost of housing in the State. The report documents a 40-year trend in which the costs of housing within California rose at near four times the national average, and highlights the impact that local “no growth” policies have had in limiting private development within the coastal areas.

...

The report lays bare what it believes to be the primary contributing factor to California’s high housing costs, that is insufficient development in the State’s coastal areas to meet the demand for housing. California’s largest metro areas are building new housing at a rate less than half of comparable metro areas in other parts of the country. This new development is also less dense than in other areas, meaning that California is developing fewer livable units per parcel of land, being on average 40 percent less dense than other metro areas in the United States. The graphs below compare the rate of new housing development between the national average, the state average, and the average of the California coast.

quote:

The report goes on to say that the reason why cities and counties simply don’t build more housing is primarily due to public resistance. The state’s environmental review process, outlined under the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA), is consistently used to halt or delay projects on environmental grounds, and provides significant opportunity for legal resistance even past the point of legislative approval. Furthermore, most local municipalities in the state have significantly burdensome project approval processes, usually involving approval from multiple departments and public commissions, forcing private developers into uncertain market conditions and costing them added time. Two thirds of California coastal communities have even adopted specific growth control measures, which vary from placing new restrictions on certain types of development, to direct caps on the number of units that can be built.

Cicero posted:

In a conclusion that I'm sure will shock everyone here, it appears that high housing prices in California are mainly a result of not building enough housing:

Also it's our own fault:

http://blog.civinomics.com/2015/03/30/the-future-of-housing-in-california/

Who could have possibly foreseen that restricting the supply of a thing would result in high prices for that thing??

Zeitgueist posted:

The only thing that got any new higher density buildings in LA built is that they're all luxury units taking advantage of the crazy market.

Cicero posted:

Well yeah, when demand across the spectrum isn't being met, fixed costs are high, and you can only build so many units, targeting the high end makes the most business sense. Somehow other metros manage to get reasonably affordable housing though, it's not like developers there wouldn't build all luxury housing all the time if they could get away with it.

quote:

The state’s environmental review process, outlined under the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA), is consistently used to halt or delay projects on environmental grounds, and provides significant opportunity for legal resistance even past the point of legislative approval.

enraged_camel posted:

I witnessed this first-hand. It doesn't just apply to residential developments either. A few years ago, a real estate developer friend of mine wanted to build a business center on the Long Beach coast. It was estimated to bring about 500 jobs, but faced so much opposition that the guy just gave up.

It's almost as if the state wants to gently caress itself. Pretty sad, really.

Zeitgueist posted:

LA is just behind NYC in "LOL poor people" in terms of urban planning.

I mean we literally have a designated section of the for homeless dumping and it's mere blocks away from 3k/mo "artist lofts".

FCKGW posted:

The Daily Beast has a good article reiterating what most of us here already know: that long term changes to California's ag system are needed and restricting glasses of water at restaurants does nothing to solve our water issues.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/30/how-growers-gamed-california-s-drought.html

Zeitgueist posted:

The only thing that got any new higher density buildings in LA built is that they're all luxury units taking advantage of the crazy market.

Nobody does teardowns because then they'd have to pay modern property taxes.

Yet another interesting way Prop 13 has hosed California for decades.

Zeitgueist posted:

Yet somehow things get built.

quote:

I'm not going to shed a tear for a real estate developer.