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Who What Now posted:So you agree that literally all Chinese people living in China are autistic? All people living in (fill in blank here) are autistic because (local common behaviors that don't make sense at first glance).
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Mar 30, 2015 16:28
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Guys guys, if you just complain about concepts like Cultural Appropriation hard enough, maybe people will stop getting mad when you're racist and it all will go away.
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Mar 30, 2015 18:35
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Zeitgueist posted:Guys guys, if you just complain about concepts like Cultural Appropriation hard enough, maybe people will stop getting mad when you're racist and it all will go away. You pack a lot of assumption into such a short post.
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Mar 30, 2015 18:52
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TheImmigrant posted:You pack a lot of assumption into such a short post. I read the whole thread, I think I have a pretty good handle on it.
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Mar 30, 2015 18:53
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Zeitgueist posted:I read the whole thread, I think I have a pretty good handle on it. Right. To consider 'cultural appropriation' a uselessly nebulous concept is per se racism. Your keffiyah is too tight, dude.
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Mar 30, 2015 18:59
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TheImmigrant posted:Right. To consider 'cultural appropriation' a uselessly nebulous concept is per se racism. What does it mean to be 'useful', in this context? Is 'racism', or, really, any abstract concept, free from this charge of uselessness?
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Mar 30, 2015 19:00
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wateroverfire posted:The other day I saw american-style ketchup in the grocery store and, on behalf of my gringo SJW bretheren, I was offended. Thanks Cultural Appropriation thread.
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Mar 30, 2015 19:07
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TheImmigrant posted:Right. To consider 'cultural appropriation' a uselessly nebulous concept is per se racism. No that's pretty much it. If you're in here concern trolling about CA, you're most likely trying to make yourself feel better about being racist or lovely in some fashion. It's not a hard concept, though it is a complex one, but the response isn't to try and honestly figure it out, it's immediately to "is eating taco bell bad  " poo poo.If your response to a discussion topic is to fly off the handle like that, probably it's racism.
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Mar 30, 2015 19:08
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TheImmigrant posted:Right. To consider 'cultural appropriation' a uselessly nebulous concept is per se racism. It's all about who is doing the considering.
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Mar 30, 2015 19:11
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Zeitgueist posted:No that's pretty much it. If you're in here concern trolling about CA, you're most likely trying to make yourself feel better about being racist or lovely in some fashion. Hypothetically is putting a slave collar on your black girlfriend and beating her for pleasure appropriation of antebellum southern culture or current north african culture? Feel like you'd have a unique perspective on this question tia. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 30, 2015 19:13
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Crowsbeak posted:You should have smashed it, you're not concerned about cultural imperialism enough comrade. Really the only time I am concerned about is if you are appropriating the culture of a people you genocided. (See the Redskins) Well if you genocided them it's sort of cultural preservation isn't it? Makes you think.
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Mar 30, 2015 19:15
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on the left posted:How is it white supremacist to lampoon racism that the posters in that sub encounter every day? Even by the idiot's definition of racism (power+prejudice) it wouldn't count. No no the racism is ironic you dumb libtard  wateroverfire posted:Hypothetically is putting a slave collar on your black girlfriend and beating her for pleasure appropriation of antebellum southern culture or current north african culture? Feel like you'd have a unique perspective on this question tia. So you have an account on the pedophile stalker offsite? icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Mar 30, 2015 |
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Mar 30, 2015 19:16
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I think ZG makes a game out of trolling lovely posters unti they get mad and drop the "You had sex with a negress" card. It's uncanny how quickly it pops up when someone's feelings get hurt.
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Mar 30, 2015 19:25
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wateroverfire posted:Hypothetically is putting a slave collar on your black girlfriend and beating her for pleasure appropriation of antebellum southern culture or current north african culture? Feel like you'd have a unique perspective on this question tia. My girlfriend doesn't wear a slave collar and doesn't like any sort of BDSM impact play.  Oh wait I mean I lash her to a post and call her Toby(a) and now it turns I have always been wrong when I called racists racist, hoisted by my own petard. 
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Mar 30, 2015 19:29
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icantfindaname posted:So you have an account on the pedophile stalker offsite? Why would I need one? It's been kicking around SA a long time and for awhile he was pretty sensitive about it, though he seems to be trying to put it behind him by refusing to acknowledge that everything which happened, you know, happened.
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Mar 30, 2015 19:35
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wateroverfire posted:Why would I need one? It's been kicking around SA a long time and for awhile he was pretty sensitive about it, though he seems to be trying to put it behind him by refusing to acknowledge that everything which happened, you know, happened. You realize, even if you were 100% correct, which you're not, it would be explicitly what that person asked me to do, because that's what role play is about. Having said that, LOL, if you think I am the one who's hardcore about racism and feminism in my relationship, lol.
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Mar 30, 2015 19:41
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Zeitgueist posted:You realize, even if you were 100% correct, which you're not, it would be explicitly what that person asked me to do, because that's what role play is about. If hypothetically I were not 100% correct and you tended to flip out about this as a form of forum RP, was it any less racist or generally messed up because she asked you to do it? IMO jury is out. I mean, we're all unconsciously racist right so
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Mar 30, 2015 19:47
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wateroverfire posted:If hypothetically I were not 100% correct and you tended to flip out about this as a form of forum RP, was it any less racist or generally messed up because she asked you to do it? IMO jury is out. I mean, we're all unconsciously racist right so This is unfathomably pathetic *updates SAForums_Grudges_PosterSexualHistory.xls*
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Mar 30, 2015 19:49
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Popular Thug Drink posted:This is unfathomably pathetic Also where the thread recovered from its crap rating. Makes you think.
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Mar 30, 2015 19:50
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Question for the thread (and I swear to god I'm genuinely curious and not concern-trolling): what, exactly, is the harm of cultural appropriation? Aren't cultures constantly shifting and evolving and interchanging anyways, meaning that if some group's unique thing becomes a "white people thing" they'll most likely just come up with a new unique thing? How do you fight cultural appropriation without causing the opposite problem of cultural stagnation? If this has been answered in the thread, I'm sorry, but it's really god damned long and not terribly pleasant so I don't feel like reading back.
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Mar 30, 2015 19:51
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wateroverfire posted:If hypothetically I were not 100% correct and you tended to flip out about this as a form of forum RP, was it any less racist or generally messed up because she asked you to do it? IMO jury is out. I mean, we're all unconsciously racist right so LOL I already admit that I can be racist, like anyone, are you thinking that you can trap me in a racism that my arguments poof in a puff of logic? Listen, if you want to talk about my personal life, take it to the chat thread, I'm happy to answer any questions there. But I'm guessing you're more about trying to imply I'm a hardcore racist to discredit me because you can't out-argue me, which is what this usually is.
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Mar 30, 2015 19:51
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wateroverfire posted:Also where the thread recovered from its crap rating. Makes you think. Ah yes, you're singlehandedly turning this thread around by being the hundredth lovely poster this month to get upset by softball trolling from Zeitguist and accuse him of being a sexhaver. You're doing good work, son.
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Mar 30, 2015 19:52
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LORD OF BUTT posted:Question for the thread (and I swear to god I'm genuinely curious and not concern-trolling): what, exactly, is the harm of cultural appropriation? Aren't cultures constantly shifting and evolving and interchanging anyways, meaning that if some group's unique thing becomes a "white people thing" they'll most likely just come up with a new unique thing? How do you fight cultural appropriation without causing the opposite problem of cultural stagnation? If you have a part of your culture that's been a way for hundreds or thousands of years, and now people think that it's not yours, or think that it was entirely different from what it is supposed to be, and your culture had no say in it whatsoever, can you see how that might be harmful? Often, we're talking about stuff beyond "white people figured out our slang again, time for something new".
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Mar 30, 2015 19:54
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LORD OF BUTT posted:Question for the thread (and I swear to god I'm genuinely curious and not concern-trolling): what, exactly, is the harm of cultural appropriation? Aren't cultures constantly shifting and evolving and interchanging anyways, meaning that if some group's unique thing becomes a "white people thing" they'll most likely just come up with a new unique thing? How do you fight cultural appropriation without causing the opposite problem of cultural stagnation? We're not exactly talking about dubstep here, but cultural traditions that took thousands of years to develop. I'm not sure what good it is to say "well, white people have taken our folkways and seamlessly replaced our faces with their own, but it's no problem! We'll just come up with new stuff."
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Mar 30, 2015 19:55
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Zeitgueist posted:LOL I already admit that I can be racist, like anyone, are you thinking that you can trap me in a racism that my arguments poof in a puff of logic? I don't think you're a hardcore racist. I just think you're insuferably self-righteous about racism in a way that makes some things that happened here in the past both funny and relevant. If people want to talk about cultural appropriation instead of that though I'm cool with it.
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Mar 30, 2015 19:56
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LORD OF BUTT posted:Question for the thread (and I swear to god I'm genuinely curious and not concern-trolling): what, exactly, is the harm of cultural appropriation? Aren't cultures constantly shifting and evolving and interchanging anyways, meaning that if some group's unique thing becomes a "white people thing" they'll most likely just come up with a new unique thing? How do you fight cultural appropriation without causing the opposite problem of cultural stagnation? Not all cultural mixing is appropriation. There are many different ways people can borrow, share, or engage in culture that is respectful and constructive. Saying that all cultural mixing is appropriation is like claiming feminists think all sex is rape - it's purposely missing the point so that you can attack people or ideas that make you uncomfortable. Appropriation is when you borrow something and completely remove it from its intended context, and this borrowing then becomes the default interpretation of an object. It doesn't happen often but when it does happen, it signals that the borrower does not feel in any way that they have to respect the originating culture or even care if they've offended anyone. The most visible example of appropriation in our society is the use of Native American symbols for pro-sports teams, which can be done in a respectful (Seminoles) way or a derogatory (Redskins) way. Another example would be "stolen valor" cases, where people wear military decorations they did not earn. On one level, who cares what they wear? A whole lot of Americans care actually, and will aggressively confront people who appropriate military symbols in this fashion. You don't 'fight' cultural appropriation any more than you fight racism. You just point it out and say "hey that's a lovely thing you did" and see if people admit fault or double down on being lovely. wateroverfire posted:I don't think you're a hardcore racist. I just think you're insuferably self-righteous about racism in a way that makes some things that happened here in the past both funny and relevant. If people want to talk about cultural appropriation instead of that though I'm cool with it. You are a godawful poster who makes really stupid and bad posts, just because you can't handle being called a racist by Zeitguist of all people.
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Mar 30, 2015 19:58
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LORD OF BUTT posted:Question for the thread (and I swear to god I'm genuinely curious and not concern-trolling): what, exactly, is the harm of cultural appropriation? Aren't cultures constantly shifting and evolving and interchanging anyways, meaning that if some group's unique thing becomes a "white people thing" they'll most likely just come up with a new unique thing? How do you fight cultural appropriation without causing the opposite problem of cultural stagnation? Honest answer it's not very polite and can border on disrespectful. The example I would use is something like a Cavalry Stetson hat. In the US military troops who are members of a Cavalry unit own and occasionally wear cowboy hats as a matter of tradition and espirit des corps. When you join the unit you get your hat and break it in by going to a bar or unit party and drinking beer out of it. It's a bit silly, but it is a way for them to have something unique and form a bond with other Cav members. Nothing is stopping someone else from buying a Cav hat and wearing it, but it would piss of Cav members who feel ownership of it since they earned it by serving in that type of unit. Now, I don't see any actual harm being done by non cavalry folks wearing stetsons, but it is wearing a signifier of a group that they are not members of, and have not had experience with.
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Mar 30, 2015 20:00
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LORD OF BUTT posted:Question for the thread (and I swear to god I'm genuinely curious and not concern-trolling): what, exactly, is the harm of cultural appropriation? Aren't cultures constantly shifting and evolving and interchanging anyways, meaning that if some group's unique thing becomes a "white people thing" they'll most likely just come up with a new unique thing? How do you fight cultural appropriation without causing the opposite problem of cultural stagnation? It's a good question, along with "Why is CA, however you define it, only a bad thing in certain directions?" Racism is primarily about attitudes and mindset. These obviously motivate the harmful actions that give racism its noxiousness, but without racist belief there are no racist actions. A teenage girl with a shallow understanding of subcontinental cultures just might not be motivated by racism when she dons a sari. The frat brah with the Chinese tattoo might simply like the way it looks. Personally, I appropriate culture left and right, and would have a very difficult time even defining my own culture according to the standards of those criticizing CA on this thread. No Koreans are deprived of their cuisine when I use baechu kimchi instead of sauerkraut on a Reuben, just like no Indians were deprived of their couture when I wore a kurta over jeans to the office in India last year. It's as if some of you need to decry racism just like I need to breathe oxygen. You'd see racism in fluffy clouds, because they are white.
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Mar 30, 2015 20:02
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LORD OF BUTT posted:Question for the thread (and I swear to god I'm genuinely curious and not concern-trolling): what, exactly, is the harm of cultural appropriation? This has been answered repeatedly. It has the effect of erasure, removing the original culture, and usually means that, in whatever way there is a profit or a living or anything of that sort to be made from the culture, it goes to the white majority and not the minority from whom the culture is appropriated. This has been heavily, heavily covered in terms of rock and roll (and blues and jazz) being appropriated. You could find those posts and read them. In non-economic terms, the idea that cultures will just 'come up with a new unique thing' is kind of silly, because that's not how cultures work. And why would a culture stagnate if things weren't being appropriated from it? Your post doesn't really make a lot of sense, and kind of seems like you haven't really read much of the thread. TheImmigrant posted:
Hey, you never answered why 'racism' isn't a uselessly vague term but 'cultural appropriation' is. Could you go into that hypothesis of yours? It seems completely unsupported and arbitrary to me. TheImmigrant posted:No, I can't. Do you understand that other people do feel this way, and that it has in fact been part of the typical immigrant (hah) lament to the US, that old traditions often have pale imitations in American culture? Like the example of my Swedish grandfather above? And again, he didn't like cuss up a storm about it, but it was something that bugged him and served to remind him that his culture was being appropriated rather than actually amalgamated. And remember we're talking about a dude who was the opposite of a SJW. Obdicut fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Mar 30, 2015 |
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Mar 30, 2015 20:03
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Zeitgueist posted:If you have a part of your culture that's been a way for hundreds or thousands of years, and now people think that it's not yours, or think that it was entirely different from what it is supposed to be, and your culture had no say in it whatsoever, can you see how that might be harmful? No, I can't.
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Mar 30, 2015 20:04
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Obdicut posted:This has been answered repeatedly. It has the effect of erasure, removing the original culture, and usually means that, in whatever way there is a profit or a living or anything of that sort to be made from the culture, it goes to the white majority and not the minority from whom the culture is appropriated. This has been heavily, heavily covered in terms of rock and roll (and blues and jazz) being appropriated. You could find those posts and read them. Do you have an example of this erasure that isn't 60 years old?
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Mar 30, 2015 20:04
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Popular Thug Drink posted:You are a godawful poster who makes really stupid and bad posts LOL look at the pot calling the kettle black. Culturally appropriating all your metaphores.
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Mar 30, 2015 20:06
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wateroverfire posted:I don't think you're a hardcore racist. I just think you're insuferably self-righteous about racism in a way that makes some things that happened here in the past both funny and relevant. If people want to talk about cultural appropriation instead of that though I'm cool with it. It's funny because some folks who got really mad about getting called out on their racism have been trying to make hay out of my personal life for years. a) I've never done impact play with my gf b) she is not a slave c) she has no interest in racial roleplay, nor do I But none of that really matters, because you're going to try and keep bringing it up in the desperate hope that it isn't the same 5 posters and SS parachute accounts who care, and nobody else, and you're don't even get it makes you look far worse than me, which is the true humor of it.
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Mar 30, 2015 20:06
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Armyman25 posted:Do you have an example of this erasure that isn't 60 years old? Why do you need one? But sure, the ongoing erasure of Native American cultures in various ways, and the use of Native American iconography and legends and all kinds of stuff to sell poo poo.
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Mar 30, 2015 20:10
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Obdicut posted:Why do you need one? But sure, the ongoing erasure of Native American cultures in various ways, and the use of Native American iconography and legends and all kinds of stuff to sell poo poo. I don't know how profiting off the creations of a culture that exists, for the most part, in desperate poverty, is in any way harmful. 
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Mar 30, 2015 20:12
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The underside of "all cultural interactions are appropriation", beyond the overside where people declare that Lakota culture must be destroyed, is interesting in and of itself. It comes, and you can see people admitting this directly earlier in the thread, of the belief that taxonomy and analysis and all the poo poo where you think about something is bad. Simply awful. Action, without thought, is what is necessary. Thus, the "leftists" and "liberals" that reject it so completely. EDIT: Another fascinating aspect is the implicit belief that subcultures and minor cultures cannot have any sort of sovereignty, whether because of there-is-no-such-thing-as-society thinking, or because of what seems to be a real fear of people having power. Effectronica fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Mar 30, 2015 |
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Mar 30, 2015 20:13
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Obdicut posted:Why do you need one? But sure, the ongoing erasure of Native American cultures in various ways, and the use of Native American iconography and legends and all kinds of stuff to sell poo poo. I fail to see a) why you use the term 'erasure' (clear implication of cultural deletion), or b) how Native American cultures are fungible, and subject to depletion through overuse. No one worries about US culture being depleted (on the contrary, actually).
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Mar 30, 2015 20:16
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Zeitgueist posted:It's funny because some folks who got really mad about getting called out on their racism have been trying to make hay out of my personal life for years. People who find you absolutely insuferable have thought the same thing was funny for a long time, and I agree with them. That said, it's not that funny and if you hadn't posted a lot of words denying it we wouldn't be talking about it in this thread anymore. If you want to go be defensive over in the chat thread go ahead.
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Mar 30, 2015 20:17
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TheImmigrant posted:I fail to see a) why you use the term 'erasure' (clear implication of cultural deletion) Yeah,. before I take any complaints you have about terms credibly, I'll need to learn why you think 'racism' is a useful term but that 'culturally appropriation' is uselessly vague. quote:how Native American cultures are fungible, and subject to depletion through overuse. No one worries about US culture being depleted (on the contrary, actually). Nobody has claimed that the culture is fungible or subject to depletion. I forget, are you a gimmick? You seem like a gimmick.
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Mar 30, 2015 20:18
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Another fascinating position insinuated in this thread is that culture and ethnicity/blood/race are coextensive. This is a truly pernicious idea. Culture is by definition behavior, and as such voluntary, whereas the later grouping is immutable. I don't know about you all, but I have a serious issue with assigning behavioral expectations based on someone's skin color or eye shape.
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Mar 30, 2015 20:21
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