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Fried Chicken posted:Seriously, the waste steam getting used for that on a carrier cranks out 400,000 gallons a day. Granted, California needs ~20 billion gallons a day (BotE) but that 400,000 was low pressure secondary steam and a fraction of the output. Someone check my math on this but back of the envelope, Wikipedia says high end of electric desalinization is 6 kWh per cubic meter (seems real low but w/e); call it 10 for ease and inefficiencies. A cubic meter of water is 264 gallons, keep the math simple and say 110 kWh gets you 250 gallons. Go with a low end Westinghouse 200 mWe SMR, that's 72 million kWh electric. 72m/10*250= 18 billion gallons of potable water an hour, almost all of what they currently use for residential, industrial, and agricultural. The math may be okay but I believe you're missing an important factor: energy generation isn't your bottleneck, but flow rate. You're going to run into flow issues more than energy issues. In order to generate your proposed 18B gallons of water per hour, you're talking a volumetric flow rate of 5 million gallons of water per second through your system. I'm not exactly an expert here, but every reference I'm finding for municipal or military water pumping applications measures their pumping rates in the ranges from hundreds to thousands of gallons per minute, not second. Barring some crazy tech shift, you're going to need an enormous number of said plants to provide equivalent output to your proposed output. Your flow rate is going to be bottlenecked either by pressure or by inlet/outlet diameter for either case, and each of these cases has completely different design issues you have to deal with as well. Edit: Take your carrier example: 400,000 gallons per day is 4.6 gallons per second. You need, for California, 231000 per second. Sundae fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Apr 2, 2015 |
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Apr 2, 2015 18:39
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Fried Chicken posted:"We know the solution to the problem by we don't want to do it so we will wait until it is a catastrophe and then still drag our feet" is basically post Carter America in a nutshell and it is the number 1 thing that pisses me off day in and day out. All the poo poo we fight over, we know how to solve it. We just don't because, well, because. And none of it is hard. It is a lot of work, and in some cases expensive, but it isn't hard. Going to the moon, that was hard. We had to invent whole new branches of science to do that. Unfucking our land use policies to knock down barriers to urban growth is easy, it's a series of procedural votes by a few dozen fools to repeal existing rules. Those solutions do not fit into the cost-benefit analysis and may reduce earnings for a quarter, so it must be avoided at all costs. As long as politicians get second, and sometimes more significant, paychecks from bribery nothing is going to change. And of course the politicians would have to come up with the laws preventing politicians from getting bribed, so good luck.
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Apr 2, 2015 18:40
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I wouldn't worry too much. California's ballot proposition system will let the people with the best ideas to solve this put them forward for a vote and then ~*~the marketplace of ideas will decide~*~.
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Apr 2, 2015 18:41
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Fried Chicken posted:"We know the solution to the problem by we don't want to do it so we will wait until it is a catastrophe and then still drag our feet" is basically post Carter America in a nutshell and it is the number 1 thing that pisses me off day in and day out. All the poo poo we fight over, we know how to solve it. We just don't because, well, because. And none of it is hard. It is a lot of work, and in some cases expensive, but it isn't hard. Going to the moon, that was hard. We had to invent whole new branches of science to do that. Unfucking our land use policies to knock down barriers to urban growth is easy, it's a series of procedural votes by a few dozen fools to repeal existing rules. The whole reason I do my little nothing's where I can in politics. 100% agreed
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Apr 2, 2015 18:46
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Sundae posted:The math may be okay but I believe you're missing an important factor: energy generation isn't your bottleneck, but flow rate. You're going to run into flow issues more than energy issues. In order to generate your proposed 18B gallons of water per hour, you're talking a volumetric flow rate of 5 million gallons of water per second through your system. I'm not exactly an expert here, but every reference I'm finding for municipal or military water pumping applications measures their pumping rates in the ranges from hundreds to thousands of gallons per minute, not second. Barring some crazy tech shift, you're going to need an enormous number of said plants to provide equivalent output to your proposed output. Your flow rate is going to be bottlenecked either by pressure or by inlet/outlet diameter for either case, and each of these cases has completely different design issues you have to deal with as well. Yeah, I didn't consider that. Though that's a logistics problem and one that can be alleviated by a different system design that what I jotted down in 5 minutes. We don't need a miracle breakthrough, we just need to use our existing technology better.
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Apr 2, 2015 18:47
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Sundae posted:The math may be okay but I believe you're missing an important factor: energy generation isn't your bottleneck, but flow rate. You're going to run into flow issues more than energy issues. In order to generate your proposed 18B gallons of water per hour, you're talking a volumetric flow rate of 5 million gallons of water per second through your system. I'm not exactly an expert here, but every reference I'm finding for municipal or military water pumping applications measures their pumping rates in the ranges from hundreds to thousands of gallons per minute, not second. Barring some crazy tech shift, you're going to need an enormous number of said plants to provide equivalent output to your proposed output. Your flow rate is going to be bottlenecked either by pressure or by inlet/outlet diameter for either case, and each of these cases has completely different design issues you have to deal with as well. Your input will be a lot more than 18B gallons, I know residential systems can use many times as much as they produce, no idea on industrial scale.
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Apr 2, 2015 18:48
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 Press conferences later today probably.
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Apr 2, 2015 18:50
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Gounads posted:Your input will be a lot more than 18B gallons, I know residential systems can use many times as much as they produce, no idea on industrial scale. Agreed. Just pointing out the flaw in focusing on the energy generation aspect of the desalination.
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Apr 2, 2015 18:51
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:
Yeah it started at 1, it's happening now
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Apr 2, 2015 18:52
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Sundae posted:Agreed. Just pointing out the flaw in focusing on the energy generation aspect of the desalinization. Energy is probably the biggest issue California has wrt to desalination as we have serious energy problems and the drought is loving with our hydroelectric power production.
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Apr 2, 2015 18:52
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:
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Apr 2, 2015 18:54
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Fried Chicken posted:We are talking about enough power to run a city, the consumption of the pumps is negligible compared to that. Soil state is an issue of "how do we use potable water", not "how to we get access to it". I know our treatment of farmland is abysmal, but that's really a separate topic since it isn't water availability or scarcity that drives that, it's farming methodology and crop selection. Water is heavy. Pumping water from the coast at sea level throughout the state requires a lot of energy. Desalination is not a solution, it's just a short delay of the problems.
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Apr 2, 2015 18:56
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Stultus Maximus posted:Water is heavy. Pumping water from the coast at sea level throughout the state requires a lot of energy. Yeah this. When I was designing irrigation systems the pumps and controls for them were massively expensive so we avoided them at all costs. And we're talking about systems that only required like 120 GPM and ran through 8" lines.
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Apr 2, 2015 18:59
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I loving love Twitter.
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Apr 2, 2015 19:01
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But do they have bee???
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Apr 2, 2015 19:03
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Obama will speak on Iran in 10 minutes Edit: Kerry's comments are that the P5+1 and Iran "now have parameters to resolve major issues on [Iran's] nuclear program"
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Apr 2, 2015 19:05
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Why not blow up some Podunk pizza restaurant's yelp page and send anonymous threatening messages and phone calls to its owners? http://www.gofundme.com/MemoriesPizza They're gonna walk off with several hundred thousand dollars, a reaffirmation of their beliefs, and nobody's going to remember who they are in two weeks. Good job, internet!
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Apr 2, 2015 19:07
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Hope he puts up a "mission accomplished" banner up for the speech
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Apr 2, 2015 19:08
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After explaining the parameters of the treaty/agreement, Obama should read Cotton's letter.
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Apr 2, 2015 19:12
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C-SPAN feed live for non-cable subscribers.
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Apr 2, 2015 19:14
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I think we're all ready for the draft, but that's kind of jumping the gun.
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Apr 2, 2015 19:15
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They're coming for our churches now! Huckabee: Gay-Rights Movement 'Won't Stop Until There Are No Churches' quote:Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee (R) said on Wednesday that gay-rights activists wouldn't be satisfied until there are no more churches or Christians in America.
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Apr 2, 2015 19:17
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Sir Tonk posted:They're coming for our churches now!
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Apr 2, 2015 19:17
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Quote of the day, "When did the Democratic party declare war on the Catholic church?” ~ Ted Cruz
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Apr 2, 2015 19:18
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Fried Chicken posted:Speed build a nuke plant, except direct all steam to desalinization instead of generation. Repeat as necessary. Problem solved. No new nuke plants have been built since the Carter administration and the number of plants on the West coast you can count on one hand. The only plant that may come on line before 2020 is run by the TVA.
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Apr 2, 2015 19:21
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Sir Tonk posted:They're coming for our churches now! As a Church myself I will do my part by having as much sex as possible.
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Apr 2, 2015 19:26
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quote:Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee (R) said on Wednesday that gay-rights activists wouldn't be satisfied until there are no more churches or Christians in America. In case you thought he was talking about teh gayz going after all those other lying bastards, spreading the abridged, apologetic Good News Gospel. Shorter Mike Huckabee: when Mike Huckabee is gone due to the gays, there won't be any churches or Christians in America.
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Apr 2, 2015 19:27
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Joementum posted:Quote of the day, "When did the Democratic party declare war on the Catholic church?” ~ Ted Cruz At this rate, it's probably better to do Quote of the Hour. And I thought Republicans loving HATED the Catholic Church?
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Apr 2, 2015 19:28
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lookoutbelow posted:In case you thought he was talking about teh gayz going after all those other lying bastards, spreading the abridged, apologetic Good News Gospel. Shorter Mike Huckabee: when Mike Huckabee is gone due to the gays, there won't be any churches or Christians in America. We are so close to final victory. 
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Apr 2, 2015 19:29
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:At this rate, it's probably better to do Quote of the Hour. And I thought Republicans loving HATED the Catholic Church? They love conservative American Bishops and hate liberal/foreign papists.
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Apr 2, 2015 19:29
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:At this rate, it's probably better to do Quote of the Hour. And I thought Republicans loving HATED the Catholic Church? They hate those weirdos in the robes and funny hats who talk about immigration reform, feeding the poor, and universal health care. But they aren't real Catholics. The real Catholic Church wear suits and sweater vests and preach the word of Jesus about the War on Christmas and not helping blah people.
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Apr 2, 2015 19:31
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First Obummer wants to let the Iranian terrorists build nukes, now Big Gay wants to ban Christianity? What a week.
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Apr 2, 2015 19:31
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Luigi Thirty posted:First Obummer wants to let the Iranian terrorists build nukes, now Big Gay wants to ban Christianity? What a week. 4 more years!
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Apr 2, 2015 19:33
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Joementum posted:Quote of the day, "When did the Democratic party declare war on the Catholic church?” ~ Ted Cruz Kennedy?
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Apr 2, 2015 19:34
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Neocon heads exploding.
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Apr 2, 2015 19:47
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mcmagic posted:Neocon heads exploding. Over the Iran deal? Nah, they'll just say it's not good enough.
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Apr 2, 2015 19:50
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I don't understand why the Republicans put in so much effort to sabotage things when their base will seriously believe whatever horseshit they throw at them. Why do we need to bring reality into this process on any level?
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Apr 2, 2015 20:00
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Mauser posted:I don't understand why the Republicans put in so much effort to sabotage things when their base will seriously believe whatever horseshit they throw at them. Why do we need to bring reality into this process on any level? Their backers stand to make fat
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Apr 2, 2015 20:03
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Still time to change your vacation trip from Cuba to Iran.
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Apr 2, 2015 20:06
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So is there an actual chance that the GOP fucks this deal up?
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Apr 2, 2015 20:17
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