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Serperoth posted:Yeah he has that all kinds of wrong. The penalty is a Game Loss (not upgraded), because the card merged with his hand, it wasn't an upgraded Warning, and you're always free to reveal information you have access to (so you can play with your hand open, for example) Just to clarify something you seem to keep bringing up- what Chapin did was not GPE:drawing extra cards, but GPE:GRV. Drawing extra cards requires that no other GRV lead to the drawing of extra cards, as per the Infraction Procedures Guide. He simply failed to reveal, which is a GRV, but since it lead to game state which cannot be verified to be legal, it is upgraded to a game loss. I'd quote the IPG but I'm on my phone currently.
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Apr 16, 2015 12:04
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TheKingofSprings posted:pretty sure a win = infinite time walks That deck looks kind of rad actually.
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Apr 16, 2015 12:10
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I think someone took their pauper deck into a modern event
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Mondrian posted:Just to clarify something you seem to keep bringing up- what Chapin did was not GPE:drawing extra cards, but GPE:GRV. Drawing extra cards requires that no other GRV lead to the drawing of extra cards, as per the Infraction Procedures Guide. He simply failed to reveal, which is a GRV, but since it lead to game state which cannot be verified to be legal, it is upgraded to a game loss. I'd quote the IPG but I'm on my phone currently. We were having a similar discussion (with a Dig Through Time as the example) in my L2 practice group, and the line between GRV and DEC in this situation is very close. Now that I read the GRV definition, it specifically mentions "failing to reveal a card to prove that a choice was legal", but similarly, the DEC annotation mentions that "if the first opportunity an opponent had to possibly notice a problem was when the card hit the hand, it is DEC", which is similar. Thanks for correcting me though, I had been too focused to look at the DEC rules and didn't think of checking if it actually was an upgraded GRV 
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Apr 16, 2015 12:15
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C-Euro posted:That deck looks kind of rad actually. It is a fairly popular deck in pauper, it's pretty good. That person just added stubborn denials and some other uncommons to the board and called it a day. It can win extremely quickly sometimes so I guess if it got paired up well I could see it beating a few slower decks. More people should play pauper.
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Apr 16, 2015 12:19
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New topic! Best reminder text. My vote goes to  
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Apr 16, 2015 12:41
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Wezlar posted:For people who are against video replay, what is your opinion on people getting caught cheating on camera? I am specifically against giving people an out to penalties because of video review that players who don't have a camera over their head would not get. If a video review means you don't get a penalty applied that someone else would, then we should not use video review. if video review exposes you are a cheating gently caress and gets you DQ'd I am all for it. That is not unfair to anyone else in the tournament.
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Apr 16, 2015 12:58
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As an overly enfranchised longtime player it's clearly
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Apr 16, 2015 12:58
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C-Euro posted:That deck looks kind of rad actually. Fingers McLongDong posted:It is a fairly popular deck in pauper, it's pretty good. That person just added stubborn denials and some other uncommons to the board and called it a day. It can win extremely quickly sometimes so I guess if it got paired up well I could see it beating a few slower decks. If you like that deck, try playing elemental combo in modern as well. http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=8164&d=247000&f=MO I've played a list similar to this that plays nivix cyclops and some mana confluences. What I'm saying is that I love to randomly win with tainted strike because I am a horrible person.
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Apr 16, 2015 14:43
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Mezzanon posted:If you like that deck, try playing elemental combo in modern as well. http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=8164&d=247000&f=MO
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Apr 16, 2015 15:11
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Serperoth posted:With the coverage being very visible, do you folks think that having Judges be more visible in it would be a good idea? The Chapin call for example would have been a good starting point for a small segment on Judge calls, what Judges do and don't, why we're needed there and similar stuff. Obviously you don't know how long a call is going to last, but with all the other stuff they have in there, I'd be surprised if there isn't time for a segment on something like that. As a judge who doesn't often get to do higher REL events I like it in seeing the way in which they approach the situation (though you don't get the full line of questioning, but that's understandable) I was also talking with the UK RC on twitter at the time, and he disagreed on not downgrading the penalty, but said that once Riccardo had made up his mind, that should be it. He also said he likes having more judge calls on camera (though I think full, lengthy, appeals shouldn't) as it shows the consistency being applied.
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Apr 16, 2015 15:13
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anyone in coastal NC know if there's a legacy scene out there?
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Apr 16, 2015 15:28
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Wezlar posted:It is a premium article on a website largely for hardcore magic players. Their target audience is players willing to drop money to read more articles when there are already of hundreds of free magic articles on the Web. Pretty much anyone who's written anything about the incident agrees that the judge call is correct, but here's Chapin still arguing his case in incredibly pedantic fashion. I can understand him trying to get out of it while the match result was still at stake, but there's nothing to gain now and it just looks petty.
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Apr 16, 2015 15:39
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Being new to the current card set. And by new I mean all sets after 2005. I'm in love with Prophet of Kruphix. So much flexibility with that card I've made people quit a game doing Green Devotion with Blue counterspell capability. Nothing like casting a creature and still have mana to counter on their turn. Or even casting a ginormous Genesis Hydra on their end step.
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Apr 16, 2015 15:41
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Rojo_Sombrero posted:Being new to the current card set. And by new I mean all sets after 2005. I'm in love with Prophet of Kruphix. So much flexibility with that card I've made people quit a game doing Green Devotion with Blue counterspell capability. Nothing like casting a creature and still have mana to counter on their turn. Or even casting a ginormous Genesis Hydra on their end step. I take it then you are a kitchen table warrior, and not a competitive player? If so, and you want to be a real dick to people, I like combining these 2 cards: and if you are feeling really feisty throw this bad boy in to the mix as well
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Apr 16, 2015 15:48
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oh i just read that chapin thing and lol he's a real garbage fellow e: "the point of the rule is not to create as many game losses as possible, but to minimize the possibility of abuse" this is why we should apply the rules inconsistently based on what table you sit at black potus fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Apr 16, 2015 |
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Apr 16, 2015 15:52
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mehall posted:He also said he likes having more judge calls on camera (though I think full, lengthy, appeals shouldn't) as it shows the consistency being applied. That's something I think we can all agree on. The problem with the call wasn't that it was a call, or on cam, but that we got 15 minutes of Chapin talking to the Judge (and repeating himself cause of the appeal), and the commentators were utterly clueless on how to talk about it (as Cedric's article pointed out).
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Apr 16, 2015 15:57
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Fingers McLongDong posted:It is a fairly popular deck in pauper, it's pretty good. That person just added stubborn denials and some other uncommons to the board and called it a day. It can win extremely quickly sometimes so I guess if it got paired up well I could see it beating a few slower decks. Would Swiftspear work in the deck, or is it not explosive enough? Also yes, pauper Modern (or any format) sounds like fun. I love it when weird decks come out to play in different formats, my favorite thing about the modern scene here when it was still active was all the rogue decks that people would run out, even though (or perhaps because) my stores allowed for some number of proxies in events with prize payouts. Last summer/fall when it was at its most active I don't think I ever went against Twin or Pod, the closest I ever got to T1 decks was a couple matches against Junk, one match again Cruising UR Delver, and one dude playing UG Infect. E: On an unrelated note, can you tap a Dryad Arbor for mana the turn it hits play, or does that fall under summoning sickness? C-Euro fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Apr 16, 2015 |
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Apr 16, 2015 16:08
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mehall posted:As a judge who doesn't often get to do higher REL events I like it in seeing the way in which they approach the situation (though you don't get the full line of questioning, but that's understandable) I don't agree with him on the downgrade but at least I now know that DLS is on Twitter 
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Apr 16, 2015 16:52
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jassi007 posted:I am specifically against giving people an out to penalties because of video review that players who don't have a camera over their head would not get. If a video review means you don't get a penalty applied that someone else would, then we should not use video review. What about when no one near the table notices an accidental GRV has been made but stream viewers/the commentary notice it and call a judge? Because that's definitely a thing that happened before. If that match were not on camera, no judge would be called to fix the GRV. Does that count as an inconsistency in how matches on camera are judged?
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Apr 16, 2015 17:23
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Ultima66 posted:What about when no one near the table notices an accidental GRV has been made but stream viewers/the commentary notice it and call a judge? Because that's definitely a thing that happened before. If that match were not on camera, no judge would be called to fix the GRV. Does that count as an inconsistency in how matches on camera are judged? That's what SCG does, according to Cedric's article. It basically counts as a spectator, for all things that would involve spectators (spectators calling a Judge, statements for investigations, that kind of thing).
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Apr 16, 2015 17:28
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C-Euro posted:E: On an unrelated note, can you tap a Dryad Arbor for mana the turn it hits play, or does that fall under summoning sickness? It's a creature and therefore summoning sick.
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Apr 16, 2015 17:31
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C-Euro posted:E: On an unrelated note, can you tap a Dryad Arbor for mana the turn it hits play, or does that fall under summoning sickness? No, it's a creature so it has summoning sickness.
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Apr 16, 2015 17:34
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AlternateNu posted:New topic! I wish more cards had reminder text like Obsidian Fireheart. Especially if they did a Rock Hydra analog Planar Chaos style. If we're including Un sets, Rocket-Powered Turbo Slug has a special place in my heart for having nested reminder text: 
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Apr 16, 2015 18:11
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Cunso posted:I wish more cards had reminder text like Obsidian Fireheart. Especially if they did a Rock Hydra analog Planar Chaos style. Super haste would be e best mechanic ever in a real set. Drop all super haste creatures on the board, give them double strike, hope you win since you only have 1 mana.
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Apr 16, 2015 18:20
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Errant Gin Monks posted:Super haste would be e best mechanic ever in a real set. Isn't Super Haste basically the Pacts? I thought I even read a design article to that effect.
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Apr 16, 2015 18:25
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Sadly, that's probably why they couldn't do it. If you have the nut draw and you're going first, you win on the spot and that's kinda no fun after the first time. Edit: With Super-Haste critters, not with pacts, I mean.
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Apr 16, 2015 18:25
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re: the puresteel paladin deck posted earlier, what do you guys think about running myth realized in the slot that mentor current sits at?
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Apr 16, 2015 18:37
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Office Commando posted:re: the puresteel paladin deck posted earlier, what do you guys think about running myth realized in the slot that mentor current sits at? you shouldn't
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Apr 16, 2015 18:37
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I wonder how bad you could make a player-targeting Burn pact and have it be legacy playable. Like, would people play it at 2 damage? What if it costs 2R or you die? 3R?
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Apr 16, 2015 18:39
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Ultima66 posted:What about when no one near the table notices an accidental GRV has been made but stream viewers/the commentary notice it and call a judge? Because that's definitely a thing that happened before. If that match were not on camera, no judge would be called to fix the GRV. Does that count as an inconsistency in how matches on camera are judged? Tell me the difference between me spectating on my ipad and you spectating on the little platform about the feature match area. There isn't one.
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Apr 16, 2015 18:40
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Sigma-X posted:I wonder how bad you could make a player-targeting Burn pact and have it be legacy playable. Like, would people play it at 2 damage? What if it costs 2R or you die? 3R? You can use Gut Shot's 1 damage as a baseline. Free damage from hand is inherently dangerous.
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Apr 16, 2015 18:45
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Barry Shitpeas posted:Pretty much anyone who's written anything about the incident agrees that the judge call is correct, but here's Chapin still arguing his case in incredibly pedantic fashion. I can understand him trying to get out of it while the match result was still at stake, but there's nothing to gain now and it just looks petty. It's embarrassing, the dude is supposed to be a Hall of Famer a pillar of the community and he's using his column on a strategy website to have a strop. It's almost ironic how he refuses to acknowledge what he's asking for benefits him over other players, as he jumps on a soapbox to complain about a ruling in a way no other player ever could. Ultima66 posted:What about when no one near the table notices an accidental GRV has been made but stream viewers/the commentary notice it and call a judge? Because that's definitely a thing that happened before. If that match were not on camera, no judge would be called to fix the GRV. Does that count as an inconsistency in how matches on camera are judged? We have different goals. We want to catch every rules violation and we use any tool to help us do that, there is no compelling reason to also try and make it so that all violations have an equal chance of being detected. When handing out penalties are interest is in being fair, so we not only worry about making a ruling about what an appropriate penalty is, we also need to consider consistency, because that's also part of being fair. Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Apr 16, 2015 |
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Apr 16, 2015 18:54
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black potus posted:you shouldn't why, though? you have a dead turn one (for your land) barring mox+paladin/a useless sigil. mentors being $$$ is also a factor, only have 1 at the moment and cannot really afford 2 more.
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Apr 16, 2015 18:57
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Turn 4 Dragonlord Atarka is the bee's knees. Coincidentally, it also fucks over bees.
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Apr 16, 2015 19:07
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Office Commando posted:why, though? you have a dead turn one (for your land) barring mox+paladin/a useless sigil. mentors being $$$ is also a factor, only have 1 at the moment and cannot really afford 2 more. If you get to trigger mentor 3 times in a turn before passing and he eats a removal spell, you can still win, if you manage to trigger Myth Realized 30 times and it gets a removal spell, you're going to lose. It's not good. There are a lot of other cards and interactions that can hose a myth realized but not a mentor, with a scant 8 win conditions in the deck, you really shouldn't be swapping one out for a much worse one. Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Apr 16, 2015 |
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Apr 16, 2015 19:12
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Office Commando posted:why, though? you have a dead turn one (for your land) barring mox+paladin/a useless sigil. mentors being $$$ is also a factor, only have 1 at the moment and cannot really afford 2 more.
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Apr 16, 2015 19:15
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Office Commando posted:why, though? you have a dead turn one (for your land) barring mox+paladin/a useless sigil. mentors being $$$ is also a factor, only have 1 at the moment and cannot really afford 2 more. i mean money is money and play what you can afford but mentor achieves the same thing (providing benefit off of artifacts) in a better way. you can stick mentor and drop a few 0s and make some monks the same turn and get around 1-for-1 removal, whereas myth realized will always just die to an abrupt decay or path. mentor is also affecting the board even if you're thin on artifacts whereas myth rewards needs you to be able to make the investment to pump it, giving your opponent more time to find an answer. going wide tends to be better than going tall is i guess the short version.
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Apr 16, 2015 19:17
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Office Commando posted:why, though? you have a dead turn one (for your land) barring mox+paladin/a useless sigil. mentors being $$$ is also a factor, only have 1 at the moment and cannot really afford 2 more. If you can't afford $40 in Modern, you are playing the wrong format.
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Apr 16, 2015 19:20
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LordSaturn posted:You can use Gut Shot's 1 damage as a baseline. Free damage from hand is inherently dangerous. With Gut Shot, though, you can ping their mana dork on turn 1 and then win on turn 10 if you like because the 2 life doesn't actually matter. I know you didn't say they were in the same ballpark, but I think it's a bit too far out to be the best place to start the comparison. Fireblast might be a better baseline since it tends to be a last turn, all-in thing already. So maybe 4 damage is the appropriate place to start that. The problem then is that one can play three or four Pacts in one turn if they happen to draw them at the same time, which you can't really do with fireblast. But that's where you start tweaking.
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Apr 16, 2015 19:28
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i dunno that there is a good budget swap in the states list. i do think there's a way to build around the puresteel/cheerios engine w/ a budget list though, but myth realized is not a good card. my instinct is some nonsense w/ grinding station.
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Apr 16, 2015 19:30
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