|
I suspect Patrick is hoping that Allison can relate to him in a way that no one else can. Both of them are powerful enough to operate completely outside of normal society and no one could really stop them, if they so chose. She might be the only one both able and willing to understand what his life is like. It's not like she hasn't had contempt for the normals before, what with that speech a couple chapters ago about how people congratulate themselves for being good people when they aren't powerful enough to be bad even if they really wanted to.
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 14:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 09:32 |
|
|
To be fair, that sounds just as egotistical as Patrick to assume no one could stop him. Alison LITERALLY could not be stopped. All it takes is someone willing to pull the trigger instead of listening to Patrick psycho-babble about their fears. EDIT to clarify: That sounds like the kind of egotistical thought Patrick would have. Not to say you're egotistical  A Gnarlacious Bro posted:Why for? I think i've been enjoying it more. I'm withholding judgment as of right now, because at the end of all this, this might prove the writers did an amazing job of making Patrick talk a maze around Alison so she would hopefully forget her initial question and leave all distraught that her wonderful boyfriend isn't a genius, and just has his head up his rear end. Or the writers just had a really big binder of Patrick's backstory that they wanted to infodump and this gave them that opportunity and it's really hack-y. Captain Bravo posted:Oh give me a loving break, obviously he means within the last few generations. Christ, you're like the guy who hears someone say "They decimated 'em!" and says "Oh, so they killed one tenth of them? To be totally fair, Patrick has all but proven himself to be the type of person to both mean "since the 16th century" and also would correct someone on the definition of decimate. I would not put it past him that he's just hoping no one else will catch that and just trust him. Classtoise fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Apr 18, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 18:07
|
|
"
|
Tenebrais posted:I suspect Patrick is hoping that Allison can relate to him in a way that no one else can. Both of them are powerful enough to operate completely outside of normal society and no one could really stop them, if they so chose. She might be the only one both able and willing to understand what his life is like. On top of that, she is the only other person who knows this big, almost existentially terrifying secret, the thing he is thinking about all the time. It's only natural that he'd be desperate to talk about it, especially since from his point of view everyone else gets to go around shouting their deepest fears at the top of their lungs.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 18:28
|
|
Captain Bravo posted:Oh give me a loving break, obviously he means within the last few generations. Christ, you're like the guy who hears someone say "They decimated 'em!" and says "Oh, so they killed one tenth of them? Yeah nah even limiting yourself to the last couple generations the US isn't even close to matching poo poo like the holocaust, Great Leap Forward, or the Russian revolution. The US governments done a bunch of hosed up poo poo but claiming they're the most bloody government in modern history is comically ignorant.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2015 14:23
|
|
|
Well if you guys are really dedicated to this particular stupid thing to argue about he did say one of the bloodies governments in modern history, and being 4th out of 196 qualifies pretty well for that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2015 15:50
|
|
|
mr. stefan posted:Yeah nah even limiting yourself to the last couple generations the US isn't even close to matching poo poo like the holocaust, Great Leap Forward, or the Russian revolution. At least those 3 examples had the had the decency to keep their killing inside their own borders. Except the Nazis. Or the Soviets. The Chinese haven't, yet. I get why Patrick wanted to become world leader through force and 'mind control'. We regular people see so much poo poo, imagine if you can read everyone's private thoughts about killing people or doing other crimes.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2015 16:11
|
|
|
ChairMaster posted:Well if you guys are really dedicated to this particular stupid thing to argue about he did say one of the bloodies governments in modern history, and being 4th out of 196 qualifies pretty well for that. I don't know. Patrick is using it as a strong rhetorical point to justify his actions. Exactly how much he is exaggerating is worth considering. Even if you take him as not exaggerating at all, I'm not sure his point holds up. He said Nagasaki and Hiroshima puts his death toll to shame, so let's assume that means something like twice as many deaths as he caused. Which would put him at 100,000 deaths caused. That doesn't seem unreasonable since his actions caused the US to adopt martial law, necessitated total evacuations of cities, and who knows what else. That's way less than the 500,000 Iraqi deaths on America's hands, and America has done plenty of other bad poo poo besides Iraq. But America represents 300 million people. How many people were in Patrick's organization? 1,000? 10,000? Given his heavy use of robots and super powered individuals, I bet it was less. In terms of murders per member, Patrick's organization is probably near the top in the annals of history. I don't say this trying to excuse America's crimes. I just think Patrick's self righteousness is a bit laughable. Implying he's considered really bad because more of his victims were white and English speaking definitely plays to Alison's social justice cultural leanings, but come on. When you have to compare what you've done to the nuking of Japan to make yourself look good, you've done some seriously lovely things.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2015 17:16
|
|
|
ChairMaster posted:Well if you guys are really dedicated to this particular stupid thing to argue about he did say one of the bloodies governments in modern history, and being 4th out of 196 qualifies pretty well for that. Lol yeah
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2015 17:17
|
|
|
Wittgen posted:I don't know. Patrick is using it as a strong rhetorical point to justify his actions. Exactly how much he is exaggerating is worth considering. Murders per member is pretty irrelevant, it doesn't matter how many people were a part of the US government when they dropped A bombs on Japan, there were only a few people actually in charge of making that decision anyway. The same applies to pretty much every ridiculous clusterfuck of a war going on in the middle east, not to mention the cold war proxy wars. Hell, the war on drugs is probably a bigger atrocity overall than whatever Patrick did. e: I also highly doubt 100,000 as a plausible number, just based on people's attitudes towards him and the way he and Alison talk about the past, but there's not really any hard evidence in the comic either way. ChairMaster fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Apr 20, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2015 18:16
|
|
|
ChairMaster posted:Hell, the war on drugs is probably a bigger atrocity overall than whatever Patrick did. Bingo. Add in the various backdoor deals and systemic hosed-upness that result in marginalized peoples being killed wholesale, which the government either turns a blind eye to, or tacitly endorses. Like, we're not the bloodiest only if you count actual wars. We have and continue to sell or straight up give hardcore weaponry to "allied" and un-allied interests, so at least a portion of the blood on their hands is on ours. That's just since the 70s-80s. Wanna go back further? The treatment of the civil rights, organized labor, and others at the hands of our government, the internment and imprisonment of political prisoners. that was just in the last century within our borders. Further still? The Civil War (though justified to end loving slavery, that was a hell of a death toll) The abuse of Chinese immigrants to build the transcontinental railroads, loving Slavery of African peoples (yes africans did the capturing, europeans did the transporting, but we sure as gently caress bought a lot of slaves, and the state sanctioned quite a lot of terrible loving poo poo) And of course, one can't forget what the US government did to the native peoples who were here before us.The Trail of Tears wasn't a one time event.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2015 19:26
|
|
|
If you're going that far back, you'll find nearly everybody was a colossal poo poo. It just so happens that in SFP, Patrick realizes what a colossal poo poo he is and tries to cancel it out by taking out the big conspiracy. After that is done, he'll probably aim to get into some form of powerful political or economic position.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2015 20:07
|
|
|
Fried Chicken posted:Really? Because I think it's another part of how the writing has gone straight down the drain in this chapter and the last. Unlucky7 posted:Right now the pacing is poo poo. Entire plotlines (Remember Moonshadow? Or the MRA fire guy flat out threatening women on television? How about the Guardians being shut down and Hector alienating himself from Allison? Or Allison herself struggling with what she wants to do?) are being put on hold so characters can literally tell us paragraphs about their worldviews. Pretend I empty quoted this. I like the individual threads quite a bit. Weaving them together is a bit awkward, and feels like too much juggling.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2015 03:59
|
|
|
Whelp, looks like Patrick is still a supervillain. Just with a better cover this time.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2015 10:45
|
|
|
Many people in this thread have expressed the exact same sentiment.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2015 11:10
|
|
|
nimby posted:Whelp, looks like Patrick is still a supervillain. Just with a better cover this time. Seriously, this is where he gets an Oh poo poo face and goes "Oh you just got me monologueing! The oldest trick in the book!"
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2015 11:11
|
|
|
Crush his skull time!
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2015 11:18
|
|
|
That's not Allison's violence face.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2015 11:25
|
|
|
I want it to be her "Why was I ever fooled by you?" look, cause seriously gently caress this guy.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2015 11:28
|
|
|
He was half right when he said he's not human. He has a perspective that's twisted and warped him into something unlike anyone else. He has all this knowledge, but no wisdom. Because he's never had to learn. He can reach into anyone's mind and take what he wants. But in doing so, he's never been forced to grow as a person. Inside, he's still the self centered adolescent who found out he had powers and decided to go around killing people simply because he could. All he's done recently is change tack. He's not an adult human. He's a broken child who thinks he's god. Also, the whole "utility and scarcity" being the only valuable things is classic false dichotomy. Forcing Alison to choose between two options while deliberately ignoring the things which do make people valuable. Kindness, charity, community, beauty, art. Hell, he even went on a rant 30 seconds earlier about how every single person is unique. Looking at humanity only in the most specious terms isn't anything more that the self justification of a murderous psychopath.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2015 12:06
|
|
|
Not buying it. What's his game here? If he was going to taunt Allison into a blind rage he wouldn't do it to her face. Dude's trying to cover up something.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2015 14:18
|
|
|
thatbastardken posted:Not buying it. What's his game here? If he was going to taunt Allison into a blind rage he wouldn't do it to her face. Dude's trying to cover up something. Same. This is completely at odds with earlier behavior of his, his consideration for Feral's mental privacy, deliberately stopping Allison's rampage, etc. "Because it amused me to do so"? That's not really how he rolls. He's acting like this on purpose but I'm not sure why. Edit: Like, he literally just got done, in this very conversation, calling himself in his Menace days "a mentally unstable teenager". Captain Oblivious fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Apr 21, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2015 14:27
|
|
|
Oh god, he seriously considered the "kill everyone whose brainwaves I don't like" plan, didn't he.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2015 14:29
|
|
|
thatbastardken posted:Not buying it. What's his game here? If he was going to taunt Allison into a blind rage he wouldn't do it to her face. Dude's trying to cover up something. "Not when I'm so close to..." "So close to what?" "Hey, look at the time! I gotta monologue about a lot of poo poo that will completely take your mind out of what I just said!"
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2015 14:53
|
|
|
Captain Oblivious posted:Same. This is completely at odds with earlier behavior of his, his consideration for Feral's mental privacy, deliberately stopping Allison's rampage, etc. I almost wonder if he's lying about having those people killed, and his terrible secret is something like oh god I'm a human with emotions despite it all. But he'd rather Allison think of him as some master manipulator so he's just gonna claim he murdered a bunch of people for no reason. He seems to freak out whenever Allison thinks even remotely positively about him. Not even saying its like a crush or anything like that, I just get the feeling hes not used to people thinking that way about him and he just does not know how to handle it. It seems to be what a "mentally unstable teenager" would do in this situation anyways. He just seems too earnest in his attempts to make Allison think hes a bad person for it to be legit and this idea is more amusing to me than the idea that this is simply a misdirection for his evil schemes or whatever. But given the character the possibility that its all just a long con for some practical purpose is something you really cant take off the table. JuniperCake fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Apr 21, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2015 15:26
|
|
|
It look's like he's just calling her over sentimental and pre-occupied with justice on scale that he finds futile and self-comforting. Like as he sees it he's trying to solve the real global problem while she's trying to catch a presumed reprisal killer to put her own conscience at ease. He even insinuates that she lets him live out of sentimentality. It's kind of a classic political struggle: the liberal-humanist path that seems naive and unable to handle global suffering at a macro scale and conflicted on methods, and the revolutionary path of blood, fire, and radical emergence into a new world. Honestly I hope this does not go with something akin to Watchmen's ending but I bet you his plan definitely involves mass death and un-democratic force.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2015 15:39
|
|
|
His logic is the exact same as most Trotskyists.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2015 15:43
|
|
|
Whoah, hold on there, let's not say anything we can't take back, now.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2015 16:03
|
|
|
I would like to take this moment to remind everyone that Patrick's actual life experience is primarily in the area of people essentially shouting "THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED TO TELL ME TO MAKE ME DO THINGS FOR YOU!", telling them that and then getting what he wants from them. He may have vast quantities of information from hijacking other geniuses' brains and downloading their knowledge while they sleep, but the practical application of his powers makes him basically the most spoiled little trust fund bastard in all of history. It's just that his funds are a Scrooge McDuck-sized vault of manipulation and influence and he draws from the Bank of Whoever's Within X Hundred Feet of Me. I'd love for it to be revealed that his actual plan to take over America in his Menace phase was exceeding dumb, but he got as far as he did because of the army of robots and tricking so many people into thinking they were mind controlled simply dragged out the effort through sheer man(bot)power.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2015 21:17
|
|
|
McSpanky posted:I would like to take this moment to remind everyone that Patrick's actual life experience is primarily in the area of people essentially shouting "THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED TO TELL ME TO MAKE ME DO THINGS FOR YOU!", telling them that and then getting what he wants from them. He may have vast quantities of information from hijacking other geniuses' brains and downloading their knowledge while they sleep, but the practical application of his powers makes him basically the most spoiled little trust fund bastard in all of history. It's just that his funds are a Scrooge McDuck-sized vault of manipulation and influence and he draws from the Bank of Whoever's Within X Hundred Feet of Me. He pretty much already said his plan to take over America was dumb though
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2015 21:45
|
|
|
Captain Oblivious posted:Same. This is completely at odds with earlier behavior of his, his consideration for Feral's mental privacy, deliberately stopping Allison's rampage, etc. If I hadn't read the pages before this where the writing took a steep nosedive to info dump Patrick's past, I'd be right there with you saying "This is too unlike him". But right now I don't care what happens so long as we get out of this loving office and on with the actual story that kind of screeched to a halt for a month and a half.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2015 22:05
|
|
|
It's true, those windows really are spotless!
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2015 00:26
|
|
|
Classtoise posted:If I hadn't read the pages before this where the writing took a steep nosedive to info dump Patrick's past, I'd be right there with you saying "This is too unlike him". Literally a month and a half - she approached the building on page 96 and we'll be at p. 108 on Friday. 6 weeks of this.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 02:35
|
|
|
I'm forced to agree, no matter how much I love this comic. This confrontation with Patrick should probably be a few pages shorter than it is going to end up being. I appreciate getting different characters' positions on the moral issue at hand here, but it would probably be best to get a move on and start resolving some of these plot threads.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 02:48
|
|
|
You sly dog! You got me monologuing!
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 02:55
|
|
|
I think he's just ranting, her question surprised him.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2015 14:21
|
|
|
That has to be the most awkward way to ask "are you a rapist" I have ever seen.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2015 15:43
|
|
|
I dunno, I feel like Patrick looks like he is panicking for whatever reason. He was caught off guard? He is a passive mind reader, he should have heard the thought before she vocalized it. Right now, my pet (crackpot) theory is that Patrick is Mary's benefactor. She gets his resources (I am still not convinced that her little demonstration to the PMC was entirely done on her own) and a personal lie detector (In the beginning of the chapter, Mary states that she needed to get the truth from the victim, and it must be indeed the truth), and in return she does whatever dirty work Patrick needs. That is probably as deep as their relationship goes. I am guessing that she is on her way and Patrick is trying to get Allison to leave before Mary arrives. Or maybe she is already there. Then again, that begs the question of why Patrick had Allison over in the first place, so... Unlucky7 fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Apr 24, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2015 16:28
|
|
|
Didn't Alison demand this meeting? It is pretty telling of how shallow Patrick's worldview is that he would be gobsmacked by Alison's question. Not 30 seconds after a gleefully unrepentant rant about why he thinks him being a mass murderer is hunky dory.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2015 16:51
|
|
|
Yes. She said she wanted an hour of his time before the end of the week, and that he had two hours to respond. He responded almost instantly and sent someone to pick her up immediately.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2015 17:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 09:32 |
|
|
This B-plot overtaking the A-plot is fast eroding any sort of interest I had for this comic or praise I had for the writer. Holy poo poo, I just want to get back to something interesting. Anything but Patrick whining about why murder is okay but please don't arrest me for it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2015 20:49
|
|