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messagemode1 posted:You'd be wrong, that the Koch brothers have thrown their support behind Walker proves you wrong. Oh I don't mean that everyone wants that, of course some people don't care. But I still think that it'll bother more people than even the Kochs think.
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Apr 22, 2015 14:27
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BGrifter posted:What about the two felony charges he's facing? It's not a real felony since his supporters think he did the right thing.
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Apr 22, 2015 14:31
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AhhYes posted:Oh I don't mean that everyone wants that, of course some people don't care. But I still think that it'll bother more people than even the Kochs think. I had heard (from a co-worker) that they were looking to support up to five more candidates in the primary? Any truth to that rumor?
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Apr 22, 2015 14:31
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messagemode1 posted:You'd be wrong, that the Koch brothers have thrown their support behind Walker proves you wrong. That's just them hedging their bets in case Jeb gets mauled by a tiger or something.
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Apr 22, 2015 14:34
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messagemode1 posted:You'd be wrong, that the Koch brothers have thrown their support behind Walker proves you wrong. Him being in the White House is them being in the White House. That's why they've thrown their support behind him.
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Apr 22, 2015 15:10
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"Hillary Clinton calls for "toppling" the 1%." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/21/hillary-clinton-calls-for_0_n_7108026.html
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Apr 22, 2015 15:14
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Neo Rasa posted:"Hillary Clinton calls for "toppling" the 1%." Warren/Sanders are basically the ghost of obi-wan.
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Apr 22, 2015 15:20
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Bernie's currently speaking to the federal contract employees who started their strike today.
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Apr 22, 2015 15:27
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Are people still arguing that the charges against Perry are purely political? Has he been officially indicted? I've only been following this story sort of obliquely.
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Apr 22, 2015 16:02
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Titus Sardonicus posted:Are people still arguing that the charges against Perry are purely political? Has he been officially indicted? I've only been following this story sort of obliquely. He was officially indicted, but because a Democratic district attorney filed charges against him. This obviously means the whole thing can be ignored as a political witch hunt. Oh, and the Republican appeals court judges will ensure that nothing bad happens to him in the end.
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Apr 22, 2015 16:06
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sullat posted:I had heard (from a co-worker) that they were looking to support up to five more candidates in the primary? Any truth to that rumor? After it leaked that the Kochs were supporting Walker, they started spinning that they hadn't yet decided and they were looking at five candidates that they were considering supporting and that they'll give an opportunity to "audition" for their support. Their support for Walker wasn't supposed to come out until they gave everyone a chance to kiss the ring.
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Apr 22, 2015 16:14
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Peven Stan posted:Pandering to racist midwesterners? Bet there's a lot more westerners who would be interested, you have lots of young professionals who would be interested in limiting legal immigration from china and india. messagemode1 posted:You'd be wrong, that the Koch brothers have thrown their support behind Walker proves you wrong. They didn't though. They would be very silly to only support one candidate at this point. tsa fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Apr 22, 2015 |
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Apr 22, 2015 16:21
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AhhYes posted:I actually think that the no degree thing will be a bigger issue than people think. I know people want someone they could have a beer with, but I think most folks also want someone with more education than high school. I could be wrong, but I do think that deep down, even people on the far right want an educated person in the White House. I think most Republicans who value things like education would relate more with Walker who sounds like a businessman rather than Perry who sounds like a Southern Baptist preacher. Sure Perry has a degree but he sure doesn't sound like it, even Walker sounds more educated when speaking then Perry does.
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Apr 22, 2015 16:26
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tsa posted:Bet there's a lot more westerners who would be interested, you have lots of young professionals who would be interested in limiting legal immigration from china and india. I know people in programming who lament bringing in too many Indians to do for half the pay a college graduate from the United States would expect. I'd rather bring them here to work (and spend). An Indian in America earning half is better than an Indian in India earning a tenth and spending it all there.
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Apr 22, 2015 16:26
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MaxxBot posted:I think most Republicans who value things like education would relate more with Walker who sounds like a businessman rather than Perry who sounds like a Southern Baptist preacher. Sure Perry has a degree but he sure doesn't sound like it, even Walker sounds more educated when speaking then Perry does. Maybe not if they stop to look at what he actually does. Who am I kidding, it's a team sport, etc. http://www.jsonline.com/news/education/school-districts-take-stock-of-funding-cut-in-scott-walker-budget-b99443857z1-291692801.html
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Apr 22, 2015 16:30
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Hellblazer187 posted:I know people in programming who lament bringing in too many Indians to do for half the pay a college graduate from the United States would expect. I'd rather bring them here to work (and spend). An Indian in America earning half is better than an Indian in India earning a tenth and spending it all there. But is it better when you also remember that that American he helped replace is also earning half? You now have two people doing twice the work for the same total cost to the company. EDIT: And for the same overall benefit to the economy given that we aren't talking about people earning more than $200k, so there's no outsized amount of money being routed to savings instead of more immediate purchases. Unless you count "lower cost of labor" to be a net positive. ComradeCosmobot fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Apr 22, 2015 |
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Apr 22, 2015 16:32
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ComradeCosmobot posted:He was officially indicted, but because a Democratic district attorney filed charges against him. This obviously means the whole thing can be ignored as a political witch hunt. I figured. I don't see it even being an issue because the people who actually care aren't going to vote for him anyway.
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Apr 22, 2015 16:36
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tsa posted:They didn't though. They would be very silly to only support one candidate at this point. http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/04/20/koch-brothers-signal-support-for-scott-walker/?_r=0 Except they've been signaling that they want Walker to win the nomination, which is enough to freak out everyone else.
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Apr 22, 2015 16:38
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ComradeCosmobot posted:But is it better when you also remember that that American he helped replace is also earning half? You now have two people doing twice the work for the same total cost to the company. That's missing the point. Of course I'd rather have American graduates earning good salaries. When the two economically feasible alternatives for a large tech company are "bring Indians in, pay half" or "send work to India, pay less than half," everyone is better off when they choose the first of those options. If there's a way to change things such that a third economically feasible option includes "pay American graduates full amount" then I would love to see those changes made. However, if the only change we make is to limit skilled worker visas, we now make it much more attractive for the company to ship the entire job to India if the work can be done remotely (as a lot of technical work can). Edit: I'm specifically talking about programmers. An older guy I know manages projects and his company, a very large one, brings in workers from India to do a lot of the programming. He'd rather have young American kids earning more money under him. Of course I'd rather he have that too. I don't thinking limiting skilled worker visas would actually do that, though. Hellblazer187 fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Apr 22, 2015 |
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Apr 22, 2015 16:39
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tsa posted:Bet there's a lot more westerners who would be interested, you have lots of young professionals who would be interested in limiting legal immigration from china and india. http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/04/20/koch-brothers-signal-support-for-scott-walker/ "When Scott Walker wins the nomination..." Although I think they walked it back since. http://www.salon.com/2015/04/22/scott_walker_is_now_toast_the_crazy_move_right_that_cost_him_the_koch_brothers_and_probably_the_nomination/ This election is gearing up to have a much brighter spotlight on the billionaire benefactors than previous elections, which is good.
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Apr 22, 2015 16:40
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Hellblazer187 posted:That's missing the point. Of course I'd rather have American graduates earning good salaries. When the two economically feasible alternatives for a large tech company are "bring Indians in, pay half" or "send work to India, pay less than half," everyone is better off when they choose the first of those options. If there's a way to change things such that a third economically feasible option includes "pay American graduates full amount" then I would love to see those changes made. However, if the only change we make is to limit skilled worker visas, we now make it much more attractive for the company to ship the entire job to India if the work can be done remotely (as a lot of technical work can). Actually, shipping work off to India doesn't always pay. It's becoming understood that outsourcing coding to India tends to produce lower-quality products (for a number of interrelated reasons including language barriers and ineffective oversight of work given the time zone difference and need to get and give regular feedback on the state of the product being developed). So unless you're going to ship half your management team over as well... There's a reason companies now are pushing to bring workers over rather than keep them in India. It costs more, but the quality suddenly becomes as good as American work. The decision isn't necessarily between "bring workers over" and "do the work in India", because it's clear that companies would very much prefer to bring them over because the work quality is better and it still costs less than paying Americans. EDIT: If your choices are "make shoddier work in India for a tenth the cost (or acceptable work for 20% of the cost but twice as much time)", "make good work in America for half the cost with non-American labor", and "make equally good work for full cost with American labor" of course the last option will never be seen as economically feasible, because there is literally no incentive to pay more. If you remove that middle option though, there's at least some demand going to that last option, because SOME people will want quality work regardless of the extra cost. ComradeCosmobot fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Apr 22, 2015 |
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Apr 22, 2015 16:50
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MaxxBot posted:I think most Republicans who value things like education Gonna stop you right there. Education in places like Harvard or Yale is a side effect of the money, family name, and connections that are truly valued.
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Apr 22, 2015 16:57
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Yeah, I have experience with outsourcing technical work and there are a lot of trade offs. Sometimes the quality is poo poo but you deal with it because it's cheap and you can just tell them to keep hammering away at it until it works well enough, despite being fundamentally a poor design. If you want the work done to more exacting standards then you have more wasted time on trying to micromanage a project remotely. Being able to bring those workers over here and pay them low wages removes most of these downsides.
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Apr 22, 2015 16:57
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ComradeCosmobot posted:But is it better when you also remember that that American he helped replace is also earning half? You now have two people doing twice the work for the same total cost to the company. The Indian guy here will eventually be able to make more money than they'd ever pay him over in India as part of an outsourcing deal, and it hampers attempts to severely cut costs by American employers. The Indian guy is also requiring the company to still provide most of the same benefits and the like, is using office space that the company may have to buy more of and so on. All of this stuff is money being spent here. Also when the dude starts his family his kids aren't going to start off with cut rate wages the way he had to (he also probably will only work severely cut rate for the beginning of his career at that, since he'll probably end up finding another job). So we end up with a skilled immigrant family rather than 5 people in India working near slavery wages with no one benefiting but whatever CEO and manager signed off on the outsourcing deal.
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Apr 22, 2015 17:23
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Actually, shipping work off to India doesn't always pay. It's becoming understood that outsourcing coding to India tends to produce lower-quality products (for a number of interrelated reasons including language barriers and ineffective oversight of work given the time zone difference and need to get and give regular feedback on the state of the product being developed). I know a major firm that did this and basically mass rented out an apartment complex for the workers. I guess it was better than where they'd otherwise be but it seems the next step is to hold their passports hostage.
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Apr 22, 2015 17:33
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Gravel Gravy posted:I know a major firm that did this and basically mass rented out an apartment complex for the workers. I guess it was better than where they'd otherwise be but it seems the next step is to hold their passports hostage.
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Apr 22, 2015 17:44
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The Kochs loves Walker since he is a soulless husk that would gladly eat a baby if he were asked to. He's the perfect Republican president since he would do the bidding of his backers without any thought to the ramifications or have any ethical issues with doing anything. However that doesn't necessarily make him a good candidate since you still need to get elected.
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Apr 22, 2015 17:48
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messagemode1 posted:http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/04/20/koch-brothers-signal-support-for-scott-walker/ Didn't the Kochs say their PACs weren't going to support any primary candidates, and that they would only do it individually? Doesn't that mean they're limited to giving Walker $2600 each?
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Apr 22, 2015 17:50
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Oracle posted:Don't they pretty much already do that via threat of firing meaning they have x number of days to find a new corporate sponsor or GTFO? Yeah, that's a huge benefit of the current H1b process. You've got huge amounts of leverage over a skilled worker who otherwise could quit.
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Apr 22, 2015 18:21
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The X-man cometh posted:Yeah, that's a huge benefit of the current H1b process. You've got huge amounts of leverage over a skilled worker who otherwise could quit. Basically employers want cheap labor, but don't want the expense of training them. Since that's not really viable, since a lot of the skills are so new there isn't a ready lool available, they want workers who can't quit and take that skillset to an employer that doesn't treat them like disposable resources. Hence the visa being linked to the employer, not the employee.
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Apr 22, 2015 18:32
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Radish posted:The Kochs loves Walker since he is a soulless husk that would gladly eat a baby if he were asked to. He's the perfect Republican president since he would do the bidding of his backers without any thought to the ramifications or have any ethical issues with doing anything. However that doesn't necessarily make him a good candidate since you still need to get elected. Plus, you know, he has all the charisma and personality of a 180 lbs lump of semi-sentient mashed potatoes, which he also physically resembles.
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Apr 22, 2015 19:17
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So it seems Rand doesn't understand business. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewi...campaign=buffer
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Apr 22, 2015 19:22
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I wouldn't have so much of a problem with unlimited superPAC money if there was a requirement that each candidate's biggest donor be identified, and that donor would have to appear at every debate and public appearance of the candidate with the candidate sitting in their lap, wearing nothing but a diaper.
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Apr 22, 2015 19:32
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Zwabu posted:I wouldn't have so much of a problem with unlimited superPAC money if there was a requirement that each candidate's biggest donor be identified, and that donor would have to appear at every debate and public appearance of the candidate with the candidate sitting in their lap, wearing nothing but a diaper. Fringe candidate ends up in mom's lap after she donated $150.
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Apr 22, 2015 19:34
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Zwabu posted:I wouldn't have so much of a problem with unlimited superPAC money if there was a requirement that each candidate's biggest donor be identified, and that donor would have to appear at every debate and public appearance of the candidate with the candidate sitting in their lap, wearing nothing but a diaper. I'd be OK if they had to wear their sponsor names like race cars. No need to go into fetish territory.
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Apr 22, 2015 19:36
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Plus, you know, he has all the charisma and personality of a 180 lbs lump of semi-sentient mashed potatoes, which he also physically resembles. Yeah I just don't see a situation where Walker makes it out of the clown show meat grinder that is the Republican Primary. He looks like (and is) a doofus so he's not going to be able to keep up intellectually with the likes of Cruz and his track record only makes conservative governance look incompetent. There's only so much money can do and any sort of spite based voting (which won him his Governor position) is going to be just as strong for whoever gets nominated. He doesn't even have the charisma of someone like Bush so it's not like he's going to be able to cover for his obvious failings. He may be able to straddle the Tea Party and business Republican lines so far but that's only because he's basically sat out of the spot light and hasn't been forced to explain how he's pushing both of those platforms concurrently. A more eloquent man might be able to walk that tightrope but Walker is not that person.
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Apr 22, 2015 19:37
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I'd like to see a Detritus of the Fifth Party System ticket starring Amory Houghton and Jim Leach. Versus a Partyless Bastard Ronin ticket comprised of Huntsman and Lieberman.
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Apr 22, 2015 19:46
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PupsOfWar posted:I'd like to see a Detritus of the Fifth Party System ticket starring Amory Houghton and Jim Leach.
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Apr 22, 2015 19:58
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sbaldrick posted:So it seems Rand doesn't understand business. I don't think that he doesn't understand how business works. This is like when Republicans try to use liberal rebellion songs during their campaigns and every musician says please stop. http://m.dailykos.com/story/2015/01/27/1360245/-When-politicians-use-music-without-asking-permission messagemode1 fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Apr 22, 2015 |
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Apr 22, 2015 20:12
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DACK FAYDEN posted:There's only one American Ronin, and I'm phone posting so I can't link his book cover! Fret not! 
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