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Lum_ posted:It is a good example of the far-left/BDS view that the very existence of Israel at all is illegitimate, so there's that. Well, it is. It's just that 65 years later it doesn't loving matter anymore, except as a way of explaining why the Israel government is still poo poo.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:57
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That's not an argument you want to start. It's just a hop, skip and a post and we're having MIGF/Insect Court/whoever comparing the foundation of israel to the united states but of course if it does go that route israel is still shown to be a terrible loving country even in comparison to america's part in the slave trade or whatever other unsavory historical gristle you want to spit out concerning their divergent histories.
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Apr 24, 2015 05:43
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Ultramega posted:That's not an argument you want to start. It's just a hop, skip and a post and we're having MIGF/Insect Court/whoever comparing the foundation of israel to the united states but of course if it does go that route israel is still shown to be a terrible loving country even in comparison to america's part in the slave trade or whatever other unsavory historical gristle you want to spit out concerning their divergent histories. Well, yeah, hence the "it doesn't loving matter except as an academic point" part of my post. Then again I decided not to engage with those two trolls ever again, which is why I almost never post in the thread anymore (I was never particualrly prolific in the first place anyway).
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Apr 24, 2015 05:51
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MonsieurChoc posted:Well, yeah, hence the "it doesn't loving matter except as an academic point" part of my post. Then again I decided not to engage with those two trolls ever again, which is why I almost never post in the thread anymore (I was never particualrly prolific in the first place anyway). It's not my fault that you think the majority of American opinion is a troll and not, like the rest of us, an appropriate appraisal of the facts on the ground. If the green line is illegitimate to you, whats legitimate if not driving the jews into the sea? When your goal is to drive Jews into the sea, sorry, you're going to be ignored in polite and impactful conversation. And frankly, that's what your rejection of the green line's legitimacy is: an effort to drive the Jews of Israel into the sea.
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Apr 24, 2015 05:56
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The Insect Court/Kaal aren't trolls though. MIGF is a legit and driven troll but the other two are just morons. Anyway in other news this happened http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.653326 Hope it doesn't cost a bunch of palestinians their lives.
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Apr 24, 2015 06:33
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Main Paineframe posted:The PA has public employees in Gaza, but they don't do anything. All the actual public employees in Gaza work for Hamas; the PA "public employees" in Gaza mainly just sit around and collect paychecks for the jobs they had eight or nine years ago. It's a bit of a sticking point in the unity governments and a major source of strife in Gaza right now, since the PA insists on not paying and then firing all the civil servants hired under the Hamas administration, and then rehiring all the pre-2006 Fatah-loyalist civil servants who refused to work for Hamas and continued to be paid by the PA even after losing their jobs. As far as I'm aware, this so-called "salary dispute" (as the media seems to have settled on calling it) is the only policy the PA has pursued so far in Gaza, but since the PA appears to have no intention of paying the Hamas-hired employees who've been working without pay for nearly a year while Hama insists that paying Gaza's civil servants should be the first priority, there appears to be no resolution in sight. So... you're saying that one faction is dead-set on re-establishing the previous status quo above all else, even though the responsible thing to do would be to compromise in the interests of the civilian population based on the new status quo?
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Apr 24, 2015 06:53
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Ultramega posted:The Insect Court/Kaal aren't trolls though. MIGF is a legit and driven troll but the other two are just morons. See? How can you allow shipments into a warzone still attacking your nation? You can't, not until all fire has ceased for a generation, long enough that allowing supplies into Gaza won't impact an individual's electoral chances in Israel. The spirit of democracy at work.
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Apr 24, 2015 09:33
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My Imaginary GF posted:If you think the State of Israel is illegitimate, you literally want to kill every Jew in Israel. My Imaginary GF posted:Every time a rocket is fired from Gaza for any reason, Gazans should be starved for 30 years. These two posts back-to-back are like peak MIGF. 
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Apr 24, 2015 10:25
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My Imaginary GF posted:It's not my fault that you think the majority of American opinion is a troll and not, like the rest of us, an appropriate appraisal of the facts on the ground. Israel's truculence toward its benevolent American benefactors is a disturbing trend but not unknown. The United States of America is the greatest country on Earth. However, for too long, due to cajoling, intelligence activity, and bribes, disloyal elements have taken over the legislature. Israel has received enormous largesse from the US, but has proved to be utterly worthless as an ally. I do not call for proscriptions lightly, but because we must get this foreign money out of the legislative body, and the first step is rermoving compromised politicians. It is time that we told Israel and its supporters in the US to sit down and shut up, to bend the knee and acknowledge US suzerainty. Israel must become a US client, or be kicked off the boat. Putin sees how foreign money has paralyzed the legislature from strong action, and is doing the same himself, all because our legislators have chosen greed and corruption over America. MIGF, are you loyal to the US, or are you loyal to Israel?
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Apr 24, 2015 11:16
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The only thing that matters is the electoral success of the Democratic Party. If driving the Jews into the sea becomes a successful electoral strategy for democrats, then it must happen, will happen, and any oppositional wankery that hurts the electability of the party cannot be tolerated.
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Apr 24, 2015 11:42
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Highway 6 was built to help drive the Jews into the sea.
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Apr 24, 2015 11:49
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This is why we shouldn't engage in counter-sarcasm against MIGF. Everytime multiple people do it, it just turns into a quasi-threadshit. Though, granted, that's sort of inevitable with I/P threads with minimal news going on.
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Apr 24, 2015 12:33
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Dead Reckoning posted:So... you're saying that one faction is dead-set on re-establishing the previous status quo above all else, even though the responsible thing to do would be to compromise in the interests of the civilian population based on the new status quo? No, I'm saying one faction is dead-set on making 20,000 armed security personnel lose their jobs, responsibilities, and livelihoods in the Gaza strip, which sounds like the exact opposite of a good idea by every possible metric and implies that Abbas would rather see Gaza burn to the ground?
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Apr 24, 2015 14:19
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Ultramega posted:MIGF is legit and driven
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Apr 24, 2015 15:47
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So is there going to be a coalition or do they re-roll? Kahlon seems too savvy to get Lapid'd but having the Orthodox in the coalition would seem to hamstring his finance powers even more.
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Apr 24, 2015 15:49
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Elotana posted:So is there going to be a coalition or do they re-roll? I haven't been able to find anything regarding this at all in haaretz or times of israel. I really would like to know what's going on too because weren't they talking about getting a coalition formed before passover? That seems extremely optimistic in hindsight.
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Apr 24, 2015 16:05
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My Imaginary GF posted:If the green line is illegitimate to you It's illegitimate to you, why shouldn't it be to everyone else?
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Apr 24, 2015 16:37
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Lustful Man Hugs posted:This is why we shouldn't engage in counter-sarcasm against MIGF. Everytime multiple people do it, it just turns into a quasi-threadshit. Though, granted, that's sort of inevitable with I/P threads with minimal news going on. Sorry, he just does such a great job of parodying neocon conservative Israeli-adoring US discourse.
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Apr 24, 2015 16:38
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Elotana posted:So is there going to be a coalition or do they re-roll? My take is that Netanyahu is teasing the process as long as humanly possible specifically to poo poo all over Naftali Bennett. They aren't exactly buds despite being ideological allies, Netanyahu's last-minute rightward lurch cut the heart out of Bennett's faction, and Netanyahu is going for the kill by forcing Bennett to join the government as Deputy Minister of Tourism or something similarly humiliating. For his part Bennett may just say screw it, go into opposition, and use Netanyahu's reliance on a Labor unity government as ammo to portray himself as the true leader of the Right. What's confusing me is why Netanyahu is keeping Lieberman on as Foreign Minister, unless this is just part of a long-running troll (in which case it's a pretty good one)
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Apr 24, 2015 16:41
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You can't be serious. Lieberman is still going to be the foreign minister? Goddamnit I wanted him to become the Israeli equivalent of Mace Tyrell.
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Apr 24, 2015 16:44
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From this leak to Israel Hayom (which is basically Netanyahu's house organ): http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=24935quote:With negotiations progressing rapidly, Likud sources said the ultra-Orthodox parties were striving to recapture the positions they held during the 32nd government (2009-2013). United Torah Judaism seeks to install party leaders Yakov Litzman and Moshe Gafni as deputy health minister and Knesset Finance Committee chairman respectively. Meanwhile, Shas seeks to control the interior and religious services ministries.
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Apr 24, 2015 16:51
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Lum_ posted:Beitar Jerusalem is a hate group which happens to have a football team attached.
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Apr 25, 2015 08:45
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Hey fucksticks: United Nations Report: Israeli Military Killed 44 Civilians Sheltered at U.N. Schools in Gaza Not shocking but official now
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Apr 28, 2015 09:02
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I'm surprised no posts in here, the UN released a very damning report confirming that Hamas used previously inviolable UN schools to stage and store rockets for attacks on Israel, resulting in the deaths of almost 50 of their own civilians. The Secretary General of the UN called what Hamas did "unacceptable." It's impossible for UN facilities to be safe havens if terrorists are permitted to use them to stage attacks. It looks like "Israel uses its weapons to protect its people, Hamas uses its people to protect its weapons" has the virtue of being true.
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Apr 28, 2015 14:04
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hakimashou posted:Look at me! Look at meeee! The NYT posted:Israeli military actions killed 44 Palestinian civilians who had sought refuge in seven United Nations schools during last summer’s conflict in Gaza, the United Nations said Monday in releasing findings of an internal inquiry. There's nothing new in the report, and this has already been discussed to death. ANIME AKBAR fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 14:12
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ANIME AKBAR posted:Good god if you want attention that badly then put some effort in and spin some lies that don't fall apart after reading a couple paragraphs about the issue. I was reading the article when I wrote my post. sec.Gen did call Hamas actions unacceptable. Did confirm Hamas has used previously inviolate UN schools to stage attacks. Nothing I said is even remotely close to being a lie.
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Apr 28, 2015 14:37
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It's fascinating how two people can read the same thing and come to two exactly opposite conclusions. Really is.
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Apr 28, 2015 16:02
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Although the board of inquiry's full 207-page report will remain private, the UN released a summary of its findings on Monday. In one incident, a girls' school was hit by 88 mortar rounds fired by the Israeli military, the summary said. Another girls' school was struck by an anti-tank projectile, while a third was hit by a missile. At a fourth girls' school, the inquiry found, "no prior warning had been given by the government of Israel of the firing of 155mm high explosive projectiles on, or in the surrounding area of the school".
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Apr 28, 2015 16:07
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Huh, that bit at the end says that the ICC could use this to prosecute Israel; is that true? I thought it was only the Palestinian Authority who joined the ICC.hakimashou posted:Nothing I said is even remotely close to being a lie. hakimashou posted:[I didn't read the article but] It looks like "Israel uses its weapons to protect its people, Hamas uses its people to protect its weapons" has the virtue of being true. It's like you're not even trying.
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Apr 28, 2015 16:32
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hakimashou posted:I'm surprised no posts in here, the UN released a very damning report confirming that Hamas used previously inviolable UN schools to stage and store rockets for attacks on Israel, resulting in the deaths of almost 50 of their own civilians. hakimashou posted:I was reading the article when I wrote my post. sec.Gen did call Hamas actions unacceptable. Did confirm Hamas has used previously inviolate UN schools to stage attacks. Nothing I said is even remotely close to being a lie. So you think it's OK to kill civilians as long as there are soldiers among them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa_Road_bus_bombings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passover_suicide_bombing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dizengoff_Center_suicide_bombing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphinarium_discotheque_suicide_bombing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beit_Lid_massacre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Yehuda_Street_bombings#2001 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megiddo_Junction_bus_bombing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karkur_junction_suicide_bombing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davidka_Square_bus_bombing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel-Aviv_central_bus_station_massacre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastal_Road_massacre Israel is an apartheid state = fact. Israel practices colonialism = fact. Israel's military wages war against Palestinians to protect those interests = fact. Hamas was formed to fight against Israeli military, not the other way around = fact. Therefore, according to your moral perspective, all of those attacks were justified against the militant soldiers of Israel. Hamas is justified in attacking the soldiers regardless of the potential civilian casualties. According to your moral perspective, its the fault of the soldiers for being among civilians, or simply being soldiers. As long as even one soldier dies, the attack is justified. Eagerly awaiting your response. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 16:45
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Hamas stored weapons in abandoned, vacant, empty, unused, deserted, forlorn UN schools in which there was nobody. Israel then bombed active UN schools which were used as shelters and which contained no weapons of any sort. The moral of the story is that it's Hamas that is the bad guys. It's not Israel's fault if they deliberately target UN facilities that they know to A. not contain any weapons and B. contain many innocent persons; instead of targeting vacated weapon caches. It's the fault of the Palestinians because, well, they exist, and therefore deserve to die. The reality of the facts, when you aren't a disingenuous apologist for genocide like Hakimashou, is that Israel deliberately targets innocent civilians and deliberately ignores Hamas militants. Hamas militants being their current excuse for bombing civilians, if they were actually eliminating them, they'd be also eliminating their excuse, which is certainly not something they are interested in pursuing.
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Apr 28, 2015 16:57
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Kajeesus posted:Huh, that bit at the end says that the ICC could use this to prosecute Israel; is that true? I thought it was only the Palestinian Authority who joined the ICC. The article says that there is the possibility of bringing charges against Israel, not necessarily that they would lead to anything. Israel's not obligated to cooperate with the ICC, since they're not members. Also, remember that there's plenty of misinformation out there about what exactly the ICC can or can't do - misinformation that Abbas seems to be deliberately feeding in order to exaggerate the impact of his ICC membership bid, I think.
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Apr 28, 2015 17:03
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murphyslaw posted:It's fascinating how two people can read the same thing and come to two exactly opposite conclusions. Really is. It just shows how retarded some people are. The retard is hakimashou.
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Apr 28, 2015 18:42
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DarkCrawler posted:So you think it's OK to kill civilians as long as there are soldiers among them. Is this some sort of weird example of projection? Do I need to point out to you that Hamas intentionally targets Israeli civilians, since unlike many of its Western useful idiots it doesn't pretend to have moral scruples about killing civilians. And while I may be naive to expect a substantive response, I feel I really must point out that the posters in this(and previous) I/P threads supporting the targeting of civilians have been anti-Zionists. The Insect Court fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Apr 29, 2015 |
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Apr 29, 2015 01:06
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The Insect Court posted:Is this some sort of weird example of projection? Do I need to point out to you that Hamas intentionally targets Israeli civilians, since unlike many of its Western useful idiots it doesn't pretend to have moral scruples about killing civilians. And Hamas doing it is bad too. That doesn't allow Israel to do it as well. Or do you think the German people need to be exterminated for attempting to exterminate the Jews as well?
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Apr 29, 2015 01:19
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The Insect Court posted:Is this some sort of weird example of projection? Do I need to point out to you that Hamas intentionally targets Israeli civilians, since unlike many of its Western useful idiots it doesn't pretend to have moral scruples about killing civilians. This isn't actually true though. In fact, there was an interview with the leader of Hamas on Al Jazeera during the last major Israeli attack on Gaza. He basically said that Hamas doesn't target civilians, it's just that the Israeli's embed themselves among the civilian population. One specific example that was brought up was Ben Gurion airport, which the Israelis used to stage much of their bombing on Gaza. So Hamas fired rockets at it. This was condemned as an attack on civilian targets (correctly I think), but if you accept Israel's arguments for bombing schools and hospitals, you pretty much have to accept Hamas's argument for targeting the airport.
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Apr 29, 2015 01:40
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:And Hamas doing it is bad too. That doesn't allow Israel to do it as well. Israel is a state actor. Hamas is a non-state actor. The apparatus of the Israeli state have sovreign responsibilities to Israeli citizens. Hamas does not have sovreign responsibilities to Palestinians. I wonder why folks make so much hay about 44 deaths in Gaza, yet make no such hay about the daily death tolls from other terrorists throughout the rest of the region.
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Apr 29, 2015 01:50
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My Imaginary GF posted:I wonder why folks make so much hay about 44 deaths in Gaza, yet make no such hay about the daily death tolls from other terrorists throughout the rest of the region. It is in fact possible to make hay about more than one massacre at a time, as evidenced by the threads on other topics in this very forum. Also, Western governments tend to condemn those other massacres, try to stop them, and do not send aid to their perpetrators - and when they do, we get mad about that too. Israel is one of the biggest case of Western governments defending massacres and sending aid and support to the perpetrators, so it offends our sensibilities the most. Nice of you to say "other terrorists", indirectly naming Israel as terrorists. We can skip the part where you say the 44 deaths were Hamas's fault and they're the terrorists you meant.
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Apr 29, 2015 02:21
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Dolash posted:It is in fact possible to make hay about more than one massacre at a time, as evidenced by the threads on other topics in this very forum. Also, Western governments tend to condemn those other massacres, try to stop them, and do not send aid to their perpetrators - and when they do, we get mad about that too. Israel is one of the biggest case of Western governments defending massacres and sending aid and support to the perpetrators, so it offends our sensibilities the most. The 44 deaths were the fault of Hamas, and the UN's policy of appeasement. Remember the last time the UN had a policy of neutrality while selling itself as the guaranteer of peace, until arab forces told the UN to get out of the way so they could invade Israel, and UN forces refused to adhere to their mission and take a stand, thereby getting out of the way for arab armies to invade Israel and "drive the Jews into the sea"? Because Israelis remember. So, too, do Americans interested in American engagement with the mideast's only democracy.
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Apr 29, 2015 02:28
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That's cool and all but let's swing back to the refugees who got blown up as they took shelter in UN refuges some 50 years later.
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Apr 29, 2015 02:32
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