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Noirex posted:http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/refundpolicy  Jesus Christ. And yes as a goon said a few posts up, this isn't remotely legal in several places.I wouldn't have believed they could lose this much goodwill this quickly without punting babies or something, but here we are!
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Apr 24, 2015 23:44
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Dapper Dan posted:This would be relevant if donation buttons existed on sites like the Nexus before. They didn't. In fact, the Nexus barely let you even shill for your own donation page. You couldn't link to Patreons or anything. Remember, though, the reason for the Nexus cracking down on donation links was the (perfectly reasonable) view that profiting off work that's heavily derived from someone else's without their permission is really scummy and quite possibly illegal (and the "quite possibly" part meant that nobody without their own army of lawyers wanted to experiment and find out). The fact that Bethesda wants a 45% cut for that permission is something that Bethesda is to blame for, and it's entirely possible that some other publisher will take a smaller cut if this continues. But you can't get "modders can be compensated for their work in a widespread, encouraged, and advertised way" without "the original devs and publishers get a cut or otherwise agree" or "somebody gets sued into a smoking crater". Dallan Invictus fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Apr 25, 2015 |
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Apr 24, 2015 23:44
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OK, it lost 37 endorsements. I see.
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Apr 24, 2015 23:45
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Archonex posted:
down to 272150. what was it at before this?
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Apr 24, 2015 23:45
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El Generico posted:Smart of Tripwire to suck up some good press out of this thing, but it's not like they were going to allow paid mods in the first place, so no, the community reaction still hasn't done jack poo poo. which raises a good point: if they'd implemented a system which allows people to buy stuff for mod authors anonymously, be it trading cards, smileys, or games, that would have been a far better system, and Valve and Bethesda still would have gotten a generous cut yes, it could still have been abused, but the abuse of that kind of system would have paled in comparison to the abuse of the current system already in progress
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Apr 24, 2015 23:45
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GunnerJ posted:OK, it lost 37 endorsements. I see. That was just over the course of a minute or two. It's been constantly going down since the mod maker announced he was making the next version paid. Squeegy posted:down to 272150. what was it at before this? No clue. It's not going to lose the majority of the endorsements because most of them were made over the course of a few years. Most people who endorsed it probably don't even use the Nexus anymore. It's a pretty telling statement about how popular this move is though. You can literally refresh it from minute to minute and see it bleeding endorsements. Word hasn't really gotten out about SkyUI putting a paid version up yet too. Archonex fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Apr 24, 2015 |
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Apr 24, 2015 23:46
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Noirex posted:I don't know why you are hellbent of turning a perfectly reasonable decision into something so emotional. I can assure you I'm not going to 'forget' and suddenly start purchasing all the paid mods before my breakfast coffee tomorrow. I don't doubt you're not going to not buy the paid mods, but when people say they're never going to buy a Steam game again, I just roll my eyes and say 'yeah, right'. Never buying a Bethesda game again is more likely, but I still have my doubts.
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Apr 24, 2015 23:46
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El Generico posted:Smart of Tripwire to suck up some good press out of this thing, but it's not like they were going to allow paid mods in the first place, so no, the community reaction still hasn't done jack poo poo. Evidence that contradicts my baseless and ignorant assertions doesn't count!
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Apr 24, 2015 23:46
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Dapper Dan posted:
I hadn't considered this but you're completely right, from a business standpoint this is a very bad deal for modders as well and I suspect they are very aware of that fact. Moreover, a lot of people who dig mods a lot are cockoo-for-horsecocks legit loving crazy and selling mods runs a big risk of having these insane people Do really hosed up things to you in real life. The idea of pissing off your random player is whatever, the idea of pissing off someone who mods in nudity is funny, pissing off someone that mods literal snuff into the game is terrifying and it would take way more that 25% to decide its a wise idea to paint that kind of target on my back. I feel ashamed for even acknowledging that stuff exists now.
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Apr 24, 2015 23:50
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Thug Lessons posted:Evidence that contradicts my baseless and ignorant assertions doesn't count! You don't know what 'evidence' is, do you?
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Apr 24, 2015 23:50
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Bifner McDoogle posted:I hadn't considered this but you're completely right, from a business standpoint this is a very bad deal for modders as well and I suspect they are very aware of that fact. Moreover, a lot of people who dig mods a lot are cockoo-for-horsecocks legit loving crazy and selling mods runs a big risk of having these insane people Do really hosed up things to you in real life. The idea of pissing off your random player is whatever, the idea of pissing off someone who mods in nudity is funny, pissing off someone that mods literal snuff into the game is terrifying and it would take way more that 25% to decide its a wise idea to paint that kind of target on my back. I feel ashamed for even acknowledging that stuff exists now. hosed up if true.
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Apr 24, 2015 23:53
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I thought this was a little bit funny:
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Apr 24, 2015 23:55
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Rollofthedice posted:I thought this was a little bit funny: That's a goon mod too. Nerd Of Prey, doing God's work.
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Apr 24, 2015 23:56
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Archonex posted:That was just over the course of a minute or two. It's been constantly going down since the mod maker announced he was making the next version paid. Ah, OK. Didn't know what the time scale was. And now it's over a hundred so welp, RIP goodwill for the best Skyrim mod.
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Apr 24, 2015 23:56
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welp, it's over, videogames are dead  1971-2015 "our cut" There's no loving cut to get, but if even Johan thinks this way...
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Apr 24, 2015 23:57
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El Generico posted:You don't know what 'evidence' is, do you? What I do know is that you're a shill who will take any counter-example, from companies changing their EULAs to prevent this to companies getting shut down after bad press and community reaction, and say it was going to happen regardless and the bad press had nothing to do with it, all while providing absolutely nothing to back up your suppositions
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Apr 24, 2015 23:58
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Mister Adequate posted:hosed up if true. Yeah hopefully it isn't and I'm just morbid as gently caress atm
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Apr 24, 2015 23:59
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Mister Adequate posted:There's no loving cut to get, but if even Johan thinks this way...
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Apr 25, 2015 00:02
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Mister Adequate posted:welp, it's over, videogames are dead lol
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Apr 25, 2015 00:02
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So is it just me or does it seem like a lot of people are mad at the mod makers personally? Myself, really don't care that the mod makers are trying to make a buck. The issue lies as to how this whole thing is currently working, with the bullshit cuts, no QC, lovely mods already up with $2 price tags for a single weapon that you can only get via console command, and etc etc. I'm sure everyone knows the list by now.
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Apr 25, 2015 00:03
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Thug Lessons posted:What I do know is that you're a shill who will take any counter-example, from companies changing their EULAs to prevent this to companies getting shut down after bad press and community reaction, and say it was going to happen regardless and the bad press had nothing to do with it, all while providing absolutely nothing to back up your suppositions You can't prove that things happened for the reasons you say they happened, and I can't prove my explanation either to be fair, but I think my explanations are obviously more likely. Again, what makes me a 'shill'? I've said I want the cut mod authors make to be more, I've said the system has some glaring, lovely flaws, I've said maybe it's the "horse armor" of mod marketplaces and it's destined to be replaced by something better. What the gently caress am I shilling for exactly?
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Apr 25, 2015 00:05
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Reb posted:So is it just me or does it seem like a lot of people are mad at the mod makers personally? Myself, really don't care that the mod makers are trying to make a buck. The issue lies as to how this whole thing is currently working, with the bullshit cuts, no QC, lovely mods already up with $2 price tags for a single weapon that you can only get via console command, and etc etc. I'm sure everyone knows the list by now. Yeap, it's pretty much this. I am fine with modders trying to make a few $ for their work but the current business model just doesn't hold water for Skyrim/other Bethesda games.
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Apr 25, 2015 00:06
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Reb posted:So is it just me or does it seem like a lot of people are mad at the mod makers personally? Myself, really don't care that the mod makers are trying to make a buck. The issue lies as to how this whole thing is currently working, with the bullshit cuts, no QC, lovely mods already up with $2 price tags for a single weapon that you can only get via console command, and etc etc. I'm sure everyone knows the list by now. Modders aren't at fault for wanting to make a buck. Community members aren't at fault for feeling betrayed. It's a whole giant shitshow created by Bethesda and Valve's cash grab.
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Apr 25, 2015 00:06
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Oh hey, a way for modders to profit from their hard work. I'm glad to see the creators of Faalskar and Moonpaths to reap some rewards from their efforts. ..oh. ohhhh loving horse armor all over again. x100
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Apr 25, 2015 00:07
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Thug Lessons posted:What I do know is that you're a shill who will take any counter-example, from companies changing their EULAs to prevent this to companies getting shut down after bad press and community reaction, and say it was going to happen regardless and the bad press had nothing to do with it, all while providing absolutely nothing to back up your suppositions How exactly was the EULA change a response to the bad press and community reaction when the EULA change happened three days ago before anybody outside Nexus celebrities knew about this? edit: also a Tripwire dev literally comments in that thread that it's the same EULA they've had for over a year and has nothing to do with recent events. Which makes sense because "no selling derivative work without permission" was the way things always were. All that's changed is that one publisher is giving permission, on these (bad) terms. Dallan Invictus fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Apr 25, 2015 |
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Apr 25, 2015 00:09
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Yeah I'm fine with the modmakers. Even Valve/Bethesda really. I just feel sad that I'm going to be priced out of something I enjoyed, because there's no way I'm paying for this stuff.
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Apr 25, 2015 00:09
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Figured out how to make ASIS work. Turns out you have to run the .jar file from Mod Organizer and not launch it on your own.
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Apr 25, 2015 00:10
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Yeah I can't be mad at the modmakers for taking advantage of an opportunity that's offered to them. There's a lot of vitriol being directed towards them because of their decision that I don't think is deserved. I do think Valve and Bethesda have made an awful decision that fucks everybody else in return for a short-term gain and are killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.
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Apr 25, 2015 00:12
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I honestly don't see how Valve/Bethesda can really do this in the long run. It's one thing when you're providing access point to free user mods which are usually available off site. It's another if you're selling them. They are selling a product and taking the lions share of the money. They don't get to then disclaim any and all responsibility for the product working/continuing to work/not melting the buyers computer. I don't see how a court would see any substantial difference between Bethesda selling DLC or selling 'mods', when the modders are functionally (poorly paid) subcontractors. It seems like you lose all your 'user beware' safety nets once a mod stops being a community passion project and becomes a legal software sale. How can they possibly get away with selling a product in their store, taking 75% of the money, and then saying they bear no responsibility if it breaks, gets disabled by a patch, or just flat out doesn't work? Waving your wand and saying it's a 'mod' when you're selling and profiting off it doesn't seem like it would impress consumer advocates.
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Apr 25, 2015 00:13
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Oh, right, I'm a shill because I don't want to burn Bethesda and Valve at the stake for trying something new, for giving mod authors a chance to make significant money off of their work legally for the first time ever, for making some mistakes and having hosed up when this is the first time something like this has ever been tried by anyone. gently caress me for not being on board with the rage bandwagon, I guess, video games are dead, modding is dead, surely every mod ever made from here on out will be paid only. The sky is definitely falling, what an rear end in a top hat I was for suggesting otherwise.
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Apr 25, 2015 00:14
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Reb posted:So is it just me or does it seem like a lot of people are mad at the mod makers personally? I'm mad at the mod makers but I figure I am spiting them enough by just not buying their mod.
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Apr 25, 2015 00:15
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El Generico posted:Oh, right, I'm a shill because I don't want to burn Bethesda and Valve at the stake for trying something new, for giving mod authors a chance to make significant money off of their work legally for the first time ever, for making some mistakes and having hosed up when this is the first time something like this has ever been tried by anyone. gently caress me for not being on board with the rage bandwagon, I guess, video games are dead, modding is dead, surely every mod ever made from here on out will be paid only. The sky is definitely falling, what an rear end in a top hat I was for suggesting otherwise. I don't think you're a shill but "giving mod authors a chance to make significant money off of their work legally" was absolutely never part of Bethesda's and Valve's plan.
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Apr 25, 2015 00:15
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I feel genuinely bad for some modmakers, Chesko in particular because he tried to make things right. The smart modmakers were the ones that were approached early and decided not to participate in the first wave. Now they know what the community response is and their "good" names are preserved. FlyingKipper fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Apr 25, 2015 |
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Apr 25, 2015 00:15
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El Generico posted:You can't prove that things happened for the reasons you say they happened, and I can't prove my explanation either to be fair, but I think my explanations are obviously more likely. Actually we can use our brains and knowledge to figure out that actually bad press, metacritic scores, and community reaction is a huge, huge deal in the games industry, as evidenced by the massive wealth of journalistic evidence, statements by industry leaders, and common sense. Or we could throw up our hands and pretend no one can prove anything because it suits our lovely shilly argument better quote:Again, what makes me a 'shill'? I've said I want the cut mod authors make to be more, I've said the system has some glaring, lovely flaws, I've said maybe it's the "horse armor" of mod marketplaces and it's destined to be replaced by something better. What the gently caress am I shilling for exactly? 
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Apr 25, 2015 00:19
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Reb posted:So is it just me or does it seem like a lot of people are mad at the mod makers personally? Myself, really don't care that the mod makers are trying to make a buck. The issue lies as to how this whole thing is currently working, with the bullshit cuts, no QC, lovely mods already up with $2 price tags for a single weapon that you can only get via console command, and etc etc. I'm sure everyone knows the list by now. There's no one else to talk to, steam and beth are basically faceless compared to modders. Kinda lovely on valve to make modders do all their pr
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Apr 25, 2015 00:21
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Dallan Invictus posted:How exactly was the EULA change a response to the bad press and community reaction when the EULA change happened three days ago before anybody outside Nexus celebrities knew about this? This, on the other hand, is good evidence that this particular move wasn't PR-related.
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Apr 25, 2015 00:21
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Thug Lessons posted:Actually we can use our brains and knowledge to figure out that actually bad press, metacritic scores, and community reaction is a huge, huge deal in the games industry, as evidenced by the massive wealth of journalistic evidence, statements by industry leaders, and common sense. Or we could throw up our hands and pretend no one can prove anything because it suits our lovely shilly argument better OK, if you're still on about SimCity, I'll give you that one. When I included SimCity in my argument I only meant to use it as an example of how bad press didn't mean nearly as much to EA's bottom line as people acted like it did. Metacritic, specifically, is definitely an influence on sales, which is dumb, because Metacritic is a lovely way to decide whether or not to buy a game, but it does. Metacritic doesn't have anything to do with this, though, so it has nothing to do with your Tripwire 'evidence', which is still lovely evidence. Is that just a facepalm image? That's pretty awful, you're really just the worst.
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Apr 25, 2015 00:24
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from cheskos reddit comment:quote:Real-time update - I was just contacted by Valve's lawyer. He stated that they will not remove the content unless "legally compelled to do so", and that they will make the file visible only to currently paid users. I am beside myself with anger right now as they try to tell me what I can do with my own content. The copyright situation with Art of the Catch is shades of grey, but in Arissa 2.0's case, it's black and white; that's 100% mine and Griefmyst's work, and I should be able to dictate its distribution if I so choose. Unbelievable. bwahaha
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Apr 25, 2015 00:26
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So Valve has officially gone mad with power. Cool
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Apr 25, 2015 00:28
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So their method of pulling content is to keep selling it but stop paying the mod maker? Rad.
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Apr 25, 2015 00:29
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