|
When you really want to have Ravnos back in Vampire, but want to avoid the problematic gypsy issues, just turn Nightmare into Chimerstry, but even thinner in explanation!
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2015 03:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 14:01 |
|
|
Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:Don't forget illusion magic Nightmare! Realtalk my brain actually blocked out Nightmare's rework because I had no idea what you were talking about until I went to go look at Blood and Smoke again.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2015 03:55
|
|
|
Daeren posted:Realtalk my brain actually blocked out Nightmare's rework because I had no idea what you were talking about until I went to go look at Blood and Smoke again.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2015 03:57
|
|
|
Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:Your brain was trying to save you and I'm sorry to have ruined it. I accept your apology but I'll still never forgive you.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2015 04:26
|
|
|
This may sound weird, but I often like planning for potential games well in advance of when I might get a group together. There's some fun in prepping setting and adventures for a potential game while your core group's wrapping up other stuff. I'm not doing too much just in case it doesn't come to fruition, but reading VtR and the Strix gave me an idea. Vampire/Spirit-Hunter Tag Team! (Working Title) Basically for a Chronicle I was thinking that the Kindred of a city find themselves ill-equipped to fight the Strix, in part because spirit-affecting powers and the like they do not specialize in much aside from a few bloodlines. So now that the Sanctified priests and Crone acolytes failed, the Dragons suggested recruiting outside help. In other words, mortal mages to help them fight the Strix. And the only magically-talented kine in the area are high school/college students dabbling in powers beyond their ken! Breaking the Masquerade is not something to take lightly, so via a series of pressures, offers, and threats, the mortals find themselves dropped into the seedy underbelly of the Kindred! This campaign's less orthodox. It draws inspiration from Persona, a bit of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, a 'dark superheroes' vibe where the PCs take on "Monsters of the Week" between the guise of a mundane life. The PCs (both vampires and mages) need to prevent the Strix, spirits of the Shadow Realm, and other greater threats from threatening the mortal world for reasons altruistic and selfish (can't have those other monsters killing and scaring off the blood supply). Balance Concerns Naturally the problem is the crossover thing. Typical Awakening Mages are too high-powered for my tastes, so I've tried looking into other alternatives. I've considered Second Sight's Low Magic, but I heard bad things about it. Gutter Magic from Hunter's Witch-Finders seems rules-lite and open-ended, but I don't know if it's intended for PC use. Or for the purposes of a sort of "system unity" I could give the mortal mage PCs access to Cruac/Theben Sorcery at higher dots, or use the open-ended system from Blood Sorcery book. In short, the vampire and mortal PCs would have an incentive to work together. The vampires are more resilient and know the Kindred politics better. But the mage PCs have magic and better means of affecting ghostly entities such as the Strix. Mechanics-wise, is there a way to do this so that neither side is rendered too unbalanced, either useless or overpowered? Libertad! fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Apr 26, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2015 04:42
|
|
|
Daeren posted:Realtalk my brain actually blocked out Nightmare's rework because I had no idea what you were talking about until I went to go look at Blood and Smoke again. I, too, had forgotten. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2015 04:46
|
|
|
Libertad! posted:
E: Nvm, I'm used to a way different version of Mage rules than you're thinking of tatankatonk fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Apr 26, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2015 05:41
|
|
|
If perfect parity is a concern then I definitely think the thing to do is to avail yourself of Vampire mechanics top to bottom. I think (speaking from a 1E perspective here, I've been integrating 2E stuff piecemeal) that Mage and Vampire can play together reasonably well, though 1E Awakening's ritual system and buff stacking can complicate the issue if someone's really dedicated to loving around. For simplicity's sake you could literally just devise a reason that these mortals can use blood magic, or decide that whatever magic they use mirrors blood sorcery structurally.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2015 05:45
|
|
|
It's my fault. I'm the guy that wastes merit points on fleet of foot because of concept. Libertad: A big thing to consider with both Mage and Vampire PCs is what those vamps are going to do when the mages want to do something during the day. Here's a question that I'm interested in hearing thoughts on: How much control and what splats have that control over mortal institutions? Vampires and Mages, I have no difficulty seeing with their fingers in every pie, probably fighting for control in certain areas. At least until the mage grows enough in power that human affairs begin to lose their interest. Werewolves? Eh, I guess. More small town or criminal intimidation than big city politicking. But then there's the Iron Masters who hunt humans and systemic corruption arising from human activity. Still, no where near as prevalent as vamps or wizards. Outside of the big 3, Demons are probably the most active and I could see being even better at pulling strings than vampires. Changelings and Geists, I don't see why not, but they have other things going on (changelings) or nothing going on (geists). I don't know enough about Promethean to even guess, but their "everyone hates me" aura probably makes it a bit difficult. EDIT: \/\/\/Yeah, for the sake of argument we're staying at city level and assuming that all of the splats above exist to one degree or another. Soonmot fucked around with this message at 08:52 on Apr 26, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2015 07:40
|
|
|
Unless you're playing with the optional Conspiracy-level groups found in supplements, no supernatural creatures will have control over anything that's bigger than City-level, by design. And which ones control what will also vary from city to city depending on the needs of the chronicle, once again by design. I know ti's kind fo a lame answer, but that's the way it goes with the nWoD more tool-boxy design.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2015 07:53
|
|
|
What was Nightmare like in 2e? Did it just scare the victim with no special effects?
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2015 08:52
|
|
|
Nightmare 1: Become scary as gently caress and prevent people from spending Willpower against you, add Nightmare to Intimidate. Reflexively and uncontestedly conjure one-turn disturbing hallucinations on anyone you want. Nightmare 2: Spend a vitae to slap the Frightened Condition onto people aka "you must run away from me now, as fast as you can. If you can't, you curl into the foetal position and start crying" Nightmare 3: Spend 2 vitae to convince the victim of something specific and terrible. Eg "your friends are trying to kill you" "there's a monster in the attic" "your wife is a flesh eating parasite" Nightmare 4: Spend 1 vitae to do a pumped up version of the hallucinations from Nightmare 1. If you've previously turned on Nightmare 1 (hint, you have, it's free - you should have it on all the time) the hallucination affects everyone in the scene. The hallucinations have to be horrible. They last a minimum of the rest of the scene and don't stop even if you die. Nightmare 5: Spend a vitae and a Willpower pumping up Nightmare 2 or 3. The victim takes a load of lethal damage as they have a heart attack, lose an equal amount of Composure, get a permanent mark of their trauma (a twitch, a streak of white in their hair) and get the persistent Broken condition which, well: The Broken Condition posted:Whatever you did or saw, something inside you snapped. You can barely muster up the will to do your job anymore, and anything more emotionally intense than a raised voice makes you flinch and back down. Apply a –2 die penalty to all Social rolls and rolls involving Resolve, and a –5 die penalty to all use of the Intimidation Skill. You've ruined their life. This works on vampires. If y'all think that new Nightmare is worse than old Nightmare, you're loving wrong. Nobody fucks with Nosferatu anymore.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2015 13:25
|
|
|
I notice that "anymore" is the last word of your post, even though all the terror and psychological violence was part and parcel of Nightmare 1E and all that 2E adds is the goofy 20% real gnome illusionist stuff. Oh but it has to be a creepy wall or a creepy man. This is like that time David Hill said that now elders had to be smart while revealing rules that made elder vampires way more powerful and scary during the daytime than they ever were in 1E.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2015 14:39
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:I notice that "anymore" is the last word of your post, even though all the terror and psychological violence was part and parcel of Nightmare 1E and all that 2E adds is the goofy 20% real gnome illusionist stuff. Oh but it has to be a creepy wall or a creepy man. Hey man, if you don't think being able to invisibly follow people around and make them hallucinate an unescapable horror movie isn't cool as gently caress, I don't know what to tell you. Upon rereading old Nightmare, however, it's a lot better than I remember so I'll grant you that "anymore". I still think the hallucinations are an excellent addition to the power set and not goofy at all.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2015 14:57
|
|
|
I guess the White Wolf writers really like that scene with the maggots in Lost Boys.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2015 15:54
|
|
|
MonsieurChoc posted:I guess the White Wolf writers really like that scene with the maggots in Lost Boys. According to MRH, seeing Lost Boys with Stewart Wieck was the inspiration for making V:tM, so it's not entirely inappropriate. I actually really like the "convince somebody that something scary is true" power. That's a neat one.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2015 16:06
|
|
|
Doodmons posted:Hey man, if you don't think being able to invisibly follow people around and make them hallucinate an unescapable horror movie isn't cool as gently caress, I don't know what to tell you. Upon rereading old Nightmare, however, it's a lot better than I remember so I'll grant you that "anymore". I still think the hallucinations are an excellent addition to the power set and not goofy at all. You could already do that. The provlem here is that whoever designed the power just misunderstood A Hunger Like Fire, thinking that Nosreratu characters were willfully crafting and loosing illusion spells rather than striking fear and letting it manifest however it may. So, like, if 2E Scratch knows I'm arachnophobic, he wills me to imagine a giant spider. But what if his intel is bad? What if I love spiders? Does he win the contested roll but watch me roll my eyes or pump my fist at what he thought would be a spooktacular frightmare? Or do I flee in terror regardless because the discipline makes the spider-illusion scary regardless of its actual subject matter? My guess is option number two, but then what's the drat illusion for? Nightmare should strike fear, and hallucinations should be one of many ways that fear might manifest in a victim. Creating custom hallucinations should not be a first-order Nightmare effect. Maybe some combination of Obfuscate and Dominate could produce "everyone suddenly sees a full-grown tiger enter the cafeteria!" Nightmare should produce "Everyone fears to remain in the cafeteria" and let their own dumb brains decide why. Now, structurally, 2E Nightmare makes some obvious and long-needed improvements, like making Dread a free, entry-level power and allowing for some finesse and specific behavior alteration at the intermediate level. But the mechanism's all wrong, and the actual decisions made in the course of using the power (what false thing shall I make her believe (as long as it's scary)? what false thing will I cause everyone to see (as long as it's scary)?) turn Nosferatu into hucksters rather than haunts. Put another way, you might have noticed that Majesty doesn't make people confuse you for specific celebrities, and Dominate doesn't fool people into thinking you're the President. They just work. Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Apr 26, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2015 16:55
|
|
|
MonsieurChoc posted:I guess the White Wolf writers really like that scene with the maggots in Lost Boys. So this is my favorite trick: we present our guests with a plate of bosghetti, and then I will say, 'Why don't you eat some bosghetti?'
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2015 17:51
|
|
|
tatankatonk posted:So this is my favorite trick: we present our guests with a plate of bosghetti, and then I will say, 'Why don't you eat some bosghetti?' See me.... see meeee...
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2015 18:54
|
|
|
Listen: Sometimes you want to have a rational conversation with someone, and sometimes they are being an annoying twit and you want to tell them their penis is made of spiders. It's the way of the world.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2015 19:12
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:You could already do that. That's completely fair and to be honest, I'm surprised Nightmare doesn't have a power that finds out someone's worst fears. Hell, even a Nightmare/Auspex Devotion that enhances Nightmare 1 to passively tell you what everyone who's affected by it fears. At the moment the only way to do that is use Nightmare 2 and get an exceptional success so you know what, exactly, the victim thinks they're running from. Even that might not necessarily give you a specific worst trigger. If I'm understanding you right, you'd prefer that the Nightmare 4 'actual hallucinations' power came with flavor text similar to Nightmare 2's "If she knows what sort of things her victim fears, she can choose to enhance that fear specifically; otherwise she inspires an unguided terror that flares up in the victim’s heart without her knowing precisely what he’s afraid of." except rather than an unguided fear it's "a hallucination that is guaranteed to cause terror in the victim."?
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2015 19:15
|
|
|
Boogaleeboo posted:Listen: Sometimes you want to have a rational conversation with someone, and sometimes they are being an annoying twit and you want to tell them their penis is made of spiders. It's the way of the world. Your penis isn't made of spiders? Scrub. Doodmons posted:That's completely fair and to be honest, I'm surprised Nightmare doesn't have a power that finds out someone's worst fears. Hell, even a Nightmare/Auspex Devotion that enhances Nightmare 1 to passively tell you what everyone who's affected by it fears. At the moment the only way to do that is use Nightmare 2 and get an exceptional success so you know what, exactly, the victim thinks they're running from. Even that might not necessarily give you a specific worst trigger. I can't recall the specifics and I don't have a book handy, but Can't 2e Auspex tell you a person's worst fear by itself?
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2015 19:19
|
|
|
Doodmons posted:That's completely fair and to be honest, I'm surprised Nightmare doesn't have a power that finds out someone's worst fears. Hell, even a Nightmare/Auspex Devotion that enhances Nightmare 1 to passively tell you what everyone who's affected by it fears. At the moment the only way to do that is use Nightmare 2 and get an exceptional success so you know what, exactly, the victim thinks they're running from. Even that might not necessarily give you a specific worst trigger. I'd make it work through ex nihilo terror and make hallucinations an occasional side effect that isn't under the vampire's direct control or important to the actual working of the power. You'd probably be able to produce paranoid delusionss (i.e. the subject just can't shake the feeling that there's something lurking in those shadows or that everybody is out to get them, such that they're compelled to avoid certain places, people, or behaviors) but not conjure customized holograms. Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Apr 26, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2015 19:28
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:I'd make it work through en nihilo terror and make hallucinations an occasional side effect that isn't under the vampire's direct control or important to the actual working of the power. You'd probably be able to produce paranoid delusionss (i.e. the subject just can't shake the feeling that there's something lurking in those shadows or that everybody is out to get them, such that they're compelled to avoid certain places, people, or behaviors) but not conjure customized holograms. That could work. You'll be pleased to hear that this version of Nightmare is toned down from the playtest version which was literally Make More And Better Illusions That Can Eventually Become Real: The Discipline.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2015 19:33
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:I'd make it work through en nihilo terror and make hallucinations an occasional side effect that isn't under the vampire's direct control or important to the actual working of the power. You'd probably be able to produce paranoid delusionss (i.e. the subject just can't shake the feeling that there's something lurking in those shadows or that everybody is out to get them, such that they're compelled to avoid certain places, people, or behaviors) but not conjure customized holograms. I agree with this. I'd rather have a power that made you piss your pants so hard you started to hallucinate, rather than the other way around.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2015 19:54
|
|
|
Had fun the other night, my fellow players in a VTM and the local kindred have been a little too flippant with the Masquerade so now the Holy inquisition is on our Arse. The GM is running them as intelligent methodical soldiers of God. They know they can't take us in a straight fight and stormed a Coterie members haven at 10am dragging him into the sun having already hammered a stake through his heart and soaked him in gasoline after he decided to have a Potence fight in public with the local Sabbat. The pressure is really mounting and everyone is in lock down as the inquisition have started tracking down the more public kindred.. It's a really nice shake up in terms of antagonists. I'm really thinking of running an inquisitor game for cWoD now.
Zombiejack fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Apr 26, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2015 21:45
|
|
|
Mendrian posted:I agree with this. I'd rather have a power that made you piss your pants so hard you started to hallucinate, rather than the other way around. So a William James "we feel afraid because we tremble" sort of thing, or am I missing the mark?
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2015 02:57
|
|
|
Boogaleeboo posted:Listen: Sometimes you want to have a rational conversation with someone, and sometimes they are being an annoying twit and you want to tell them their penis is made of spiders. It's the way of the world. I mean, isn't this why we're playing WOD games in the first place
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2015 03:00
|
|
|
Unrelated to any current thread: Is there a Mage Legacy to do with being a stage magician? It seems like the most obvious thing to have as a legacy, but I don't know one offhand and don't own a stack of RPG books to search through. Hiding in plain sight, masking real magic with illusions, all that jazz. Sounds like the sort of thing both the Guardians of the Veil and Free Council would join in on.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2015 04:12
|
|
|
bewilderment posted:Unrelated to any current thread: The third attainment of the Blank Badges. In all honesty any actual prestidigitation is better explained by stacking super-buffs to a mage to do a quick, fantastically-practiced trick with mundane skills before it gets unraveled by the onlookers, rather than trusting you can "get away with it" via a singular attainment.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2015 16:43
|
|
|
Mendrian posted:a power that made you piss your pants so hard you started to hallucinate
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2015 17:21
|
|
|
A similar effect may be achieved by wild dancing after ingesting six nips of whiskey over a couple of hours, mixed with greasy, badly cooked steak and sausages and a lot of weed.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2015 17:37
|
|
|
I am going to get a certain amount of mileage out of 2E Changeling simply by mix-and-matching Seemings and Kiths and coming up with character ideas.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 19:52
|
|
|
Onyx Path just posted a preview of the first draft for Kiths in Changeling 2E. Apparently, there's gonna be about 100 in the finished book.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2015 03:02
|
|
|
I will say that making the egg-headed grey aliens a canon fae-type instead of a lightly-referenced suggestion is good. But seeing each kith get only its top three "best" seemings described is showing the strain of the Kith-into-Seemings concept. Cross-Kith'd changelings were a supported option in C:tL, so I'm not seeing much extra 'freedom' here for me.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2015 03:31
|
|
|
Ogre Razorhand is literally Doomsday from the Superman comics. This is a good time to be alive.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2015 03:45
|
|
|
Gerund posted:I will say that making the egg-headed grey aliens a canon fae-type instead of a lightly-referenced suggestion is good. But seeing each kith get only its top three "best" seemings described is showing the strain of the Kith-into-Seemings concept. Cross-Kith'd changelings were a supported option in C:tL, so I'm not seeing much extra 'freedom' here for me. Yeah, if you didn't mind the goddamned Merit tax. Also, to everyone who said changelings are helpless victims: Ha. Ha. No. I've already passed a note warning of overpowered nature, because holy poo poo do not get into a fight with a combat kith. Ever.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2015 03:49
|
|
|
Changelings... just got epic.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2015 03:54
|
|
Ferrinus posted:Changelings... just got epic. These aren't your daddy's Lost.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2015 03:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 14:01 |
|
|
I'm very happy that thanks to the new Grey kith, I can finally live my dream of being an X-Com alien in a WoD game.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2015 04:23
|
|
