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Am I wrong in thinking that Bethesda shouldn't really get a cut? I get that they made the CK but that added value to the game, encouraging people to buy it. There's their cut. They made money already off the players and modders that purchased the game. Their game increases in value with every horse cock addition because that is horse cock content they didn't have to pay man hours to program and add themselves. So they are already getting free labor and increased game value as their cut, which leads to more sales long after other games have been abandoned. And while the plural of anecdote doesn't equal data, I can say from personal experience that they get free advertising when I tell my friends about all the insane horse cock additions they can add to the pc version over the console one. So is there a good reason outside of them saying "gently caress you we own those horse cocks" that they should be getting a percentage off the back end as well that I'm missing?
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Apr 26, 2015 21:52
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Parallelwoody posted:Am I wrong in thinking that Bethesda shouldn't really get a cut? I get that they made the CK but that added value to the game, encouraging people to buy it. There's their cut. They made money already off the players and modders that purchased the game. Their game increases in value with every horse cock addition because that is horse cock content they didn't have to pay man hours to program and add themselves. So they are already getting free labor and increased game value as their cut, which leads to more sales long after other games have been abandoned. And while the plural of anecdote doesn't equal data, I can say from personal experience that they get free advertising when I tell my friends about all the insane horse cock additions they can add to the pc version over the console one. So is there a good reason outside of them saying "gently caress you we own those horse cocks" that they should be getting a percentage off the back end as well that I'm missing? If, in the future, Beth provides a curated and updated CK with live support for modders than they should absolutely get a cut. This was not the case with Skyrim. Once again, it makes no sense to add this to a game as mature as Skyrim.
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Apr 26, 2015 21:56
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Archonex posted:And don't even get started on the poo poo storm of dependencies mods have with each other. The entire modding system for TES games operates on the basis that the content made by modders is a free labor of love. The moment you throw cash into the mix all sorts of legal ramifications come into play. That guy who just casually added an animation framework from another mod suddenly is stealing content and needs to have takedown notices issued. That guy who made have used armor from the Witcher as a basis for his kickass looking armor mod can't have his armor included in a paid mod pack. Never mind that it can never be paid for itself. Not that it might stop him or someone else from trying. Especially if someone else puts it up as a collaborative effort. I'm going to comment on this because the mod files are archives of content. Anything could be in there even if at no part the mod will show it. What if a person puts in a sword ripped from DOTA but it is not normally accessible via the mod content, but it is there via cheat commands. I thought using textures from the game would be questionable, but since Bethesda gets a cut, it is probably in there. What I would like to do is write a python/perl script to extract all the paid mods and yank out all the images. Do a load into google reverse image search or tineye and see if there are any copyrights being held for any graphics used. "Oh, that graphic of a rock floor looks great but did you make sure XXXX@gmail.com knows about it and was given his cut since he is the creator and does own the rights?"
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Apr 26, 2015 21:56
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Bel Monte posted:Skyrim is now at 87% positive reviews. It seems to drop a percent every few hours. Being this is the weekend, we may approach the 83% mark by midnight. I'm sure Bethesda will give a poo poo then. Wait, no they wont.
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Apr 26, 2015 21:56
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GunnerJ posted:This is probably worth a few bucks but you gotta worry about getting sued by Arthmoor so it's a tossup. He's unemployed, he won't be able to afford jack poo poo. anyway  SkyUI's new crafting menu for version 5.Paid Pretty goddamn hilarious that the SkyUI team had this poo poo in the wings and didn't bother to release it until after paid mods became a thing.
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Apr 26, 2015 22:01
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Shadowlz posted:I'm sure Bethesda will give a poo poo then. I don't think anyone in this thread thinks the review scores will appreciably affect sales of the game 4 years after release, but it's funny.
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Apr 26, 2015 22:01
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Parallelwoody posted:Am I wrong in thinking that Bethesda shouldn't really get a cut? I get that they made the CK but that added value to the game, encouraging people to buy it. There's their cut. They made money already off the players and modders that purchased the game. Their game increases in value with every horse cock addition because that is horse cock content they didn't have to pay man hours to program and add themselves. So they are already getting free labor and increased game value as their cut, which leads to more sales long after other games have been abandoned. And while the plural of anecdote doesn't equal data, I can say from personal experience that they get free advertising when I tell my friends about all the insane horse cock additions they can add to the pc version over the console one. So is there a good reason outside of them saying "gently caress you we own those horse cocks" that they should be getting a percentage off the back end as well that I'm missing? Nah I feel this way too (and I imagine others probably do as well) it's just there is so much wrong with this whole deal it's hard to focus on specific parts. Bethesda did get their cut, and now many years later they decide that they want to collect back-taxes on the community that contributed to their sales success. Suppose if they are willing to pay modders for the community they built in a back-taxes sort of way then that would be fair but lol capitalism so no.
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Apr 26, 2015 22:02
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El Estrago Bonito posted:
If you're pissed about the lack of value art is given by nerds you might not want to defend a program that screws these artists* over for slave wages with no guaranteed pay *working with the ck is not art, it's more akin to self-inflicted torture
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Apr 26, 2015 22:02
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Even if you don't have any issue with paying for mods, there is this problem that mods contrary to DLC or games have absolutely no baseline of even implied quality assurance. They can literally be "whatever". In a marketplace that might one day be flooded with paid mods for a game, it's very possible that the whole thing becomes very opaque regarding if a mod is good or not (even more than it is already now). So, you buy a mod, don't like it, or the developer stops supporting it, or a patch breaks it.. and then? Then nothing. You as a customer (which you are when you have paid for a mod) have absolutely no recourse. Valve/Bethesda take the lion cut, but take absolutely no responsibility for the content THEY sell (and yes, they sell it, not the modder). There are absolutely not even the slightest guarantees and the mod is pretty much sold "as is", everything lies in the hand of some anonymous "unprofessional" mod maker which quite honestly, as a private person even by law of some countries would not be able to give such guarantees even if he wanted. The customer gets an incredibly lovely deal here. How many industries do you know where a company sells a thing it takes absolutely no responsibility for?
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Apr 26, 2015 22:11
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GunnerJ posted:This is probably worth a few bucks but you gotta worry about getting sued by Arthmoor so it's a tossup.  Scyantific posted:Pretty goddamn hilarious that the SkyUI team had this poo poo in the wings and didn't bother to release it until after paid mods became a thing. Edit: Police Automaton posted:Even if you don't have any issue with paying for mods, there is this problem that mods contrary to DLC or games have absolutely no baseline of even implied quality assurance. They can literally be "whatever". In a marketplace that might one day be flooded with paid mods for a game, it's very possible that the whole thing becomes very opaque regarding if a mod is good or not (even more than it is already now).<snip> Something which your average user is not likely to notice within 24 hours, by the way. Raygereio fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Apr 26, 2015 |
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Apr 26, 2015 22:16
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Why are there dollar signs in front of everything? Is it called $kyUI now?
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Apr 26, 2015 22:17
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Shadowlz posted:I'm sure Bethesda will give a poo poo then. Ummm Pakled posted:I don't think anyone in this thread thinks the review scores will appreciably affect sales of the game 4 years after release, but it's funny. Exactly. Add to the fact that New Vegas was seen as an "awful game and no one gets bonuses forever because it was at 84%" (Bethesda), then yeah. It's funny because of that. Though MetaCritic seems to be largely unaffected by this. Anyone who wanted it has likely already bought it, those left are few and far between. No one really thinks this will impact sales.
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Apr 26, 2015 22:21
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Ash1138 posted:Why are there dollar signs in front of everything? Is it called $kyUI now?
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Apr 26, 2015 22:21
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Police Automaton posted:Even if you don't have any issue with paying for mods, there is this problem that mods contrary to DLC or games have absolutely no baseline of even implied quality assurance. They can literally be "whatever". In a marketplace that might one day be flooded with paid mods for a game, it's very possible that the whole thing becomes very opaque regarding if a mod is good or not (even more than it is already now). So, you buy a mod, don't like it, or the developer stops supporting it, or a patch breaks it.. and then? Then nothing. You as a customer (which you are when you have paid for a mod) have absolutely no recourse. Valve/Bethesda take the lion cut, but take absolutely no responsibility for the content THEY sell (and yes, they sell it, not the modder). There are absolutely not even the slightest guarantees and the mod is pretty much sold "as is", everything lies in the hand of some anonymous "unprofessional" mod maker which quite honestly, as a private person even by law of some countries would not be able to give such guarantees even if he wanted. The customer gets an incredibly lovely deal here. How many industries do you know where a company sells a thing it takes absolutely no responsibility for? This happening is more or less what caused the video game crash in the early 80's.
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Apr 26, 2015 22:21
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Raygereio posted:True. Try imaging what would have happened when this idiocy was launched in the early days of Skyrim modding when people were coding save-destroying infinite loops left and right. I had to drop so many mods because of that.  It took awhile for the community to figure out how to avoid that poo poo. Never mind which mods and mod makers refused to quit with that poo poo. In a paid atmosphere? It'd kill the community for sure.
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Apr 26, 2015 22:21
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That's a screenshot from the alpha build, not the skse build, apparently.
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Apr 26, 2015 22:22
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Thug Lessons posted:If you want to worry about people not being compensated for their labor, the person who made your underwear earns about $0.10 an hour. That's a real issue whereas the author of Immersive Horse Balls not getting paid for his "art" really isn't I really wish I'd been told I could only choose one thing to give a poo poo about before I planted my flag on Video Game Hill. Now I look like an rear end in a top hat because I think this is a bad idea badly implemented but I am not allowed to comment on sweatshop labor or anything 
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Apr 26, 2015 22:27
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Scyantific posted:He's unemployed, he won't be able to afford jack poo poo. i've heard that the SKSE people leaked this Ash1138 posted:Why are there dollar signs in front of everything? Is it called $kyUI now? The symbol $ is often used in certain scripting languages to denote that something is a string. As was explained earlier, the the user hosed up installing something, so the part of Skyrim that's supposed to replace, say, "$housepart" with the correct string depending on the user's language (i.e. "House Part" for English) isn't working correctly. Segmentation Fault fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Apr 26, 2015 |
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Apr 26, 2015 22:30
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extra stout posted:I bought Skyrim super ultimate edition for 8 dollars. It has so much content and the game is so loving nerdy and in depth, I already got my 8 dollars worth of gameplay even though I'm 1 percent in the game. The unofficial mods all look really bad compared to the official ones. Sorry but you're missing half of the Skyrim experience without these High Quality mods that Bethesda and Valve just poo poo upon!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6yHoSvrTss
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Apr 26, 2015 22:33
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lol at Skyrim being in depth.
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Apr 26, 2015 22:36
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Mister Adequate posted:I really wish I'd been told I could only choose one thing to give a poo poo about before I planted my flag on Video Game Hill. Now I look like an rear end in a top hat because I think this is a bad idea badly implemented but I am not allowed to comment on sweatshop labor or anything I would bet in the past three days more words have been spilled across various forums moralizing about the plight of unpaid Content Creators than those same people have spent talking about actual exploitation combined across their entire lives.
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Apr 26, 2015 22:36
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Thug Lessons posted:I would bet in the past three days more words have been spilled across various forums moralizing about the plight of unpaid Content Creators than those same people have spent talking about actual exploitation combined across their entire lives. More words moralizing about how mods should be free too All of it dumb bullshit on both sides
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Apr 26, 2015 22:47
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Parallelwoody posted:Am I wrong in thinking that Bethesda shouldn't really get a cut? Modders are being allowed to profit off of Bethesdas work and IP. Without Bethesda there would be just big titty elves.
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Apr 26, 2015 22:56
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Eonwe posted:More words moralizing about how mods should be free too Third World Reggin posted:Modders are being allowed to profit off of Bethesdas work and IP. Without Bethesda there would be just big titty elves. who cares
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Apr 26, 2015 22:57
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I too am too cool to care to have opinions about things.
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Apr 26, 2015 22:59
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Asimo posted:I too am too cool to care to have opinions about things. but will you post in the thread about it? also talk in all lower case so you are even cooler
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Apr 26, 2015 23:00
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Thug Lessons posted:I would bet in the past three days more words have been spilled across various forums moralizing about the plight of unpaid Content Creators than those same people have spent talking about actual exploitation combined across their entire lives. Would you prefer those libertarians go on and on about how children should bootstrap themselves out of labor and into riches? They do that already, but imagine what's happening now being an every day thing. I don't think I could take it and would hold up in some dark corner of the internet.
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Apr 26, 2015 23:01
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KakerMix posted:who cares i sure dont
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Apr 26, 2015 23:04
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Asimo posted:I too am too cool to care to have opinions about things. this but unironically
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Apr 26, 2015 23:04
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Coolness is inversely related to how much you post about not caring about things.
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Apr 26, 2015 23:06
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oh, word? im pretty fuckin cool
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Apr 26, 2015 23:08
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Eonwe posted:More words moralizing about how mods should be free too I have a lot more respect for the guy who says he wants free mods than the fruits in this thread & elsewhere pearl-clutching about content creator compensation, I don't even see how the former is really moralizing.
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Apr 26, 2015 23:10
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ok
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Apr 26, 2015 23:11
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oh noooo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSkmZA8JG4Y&t=81s
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Apr 26, 2015 23:52
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Parallelwoody posted:Am I wrong in thinking that Bethesda shouldn't really get a cut? What they don't have the ability to force a cut from is any sort of donation scheme. The guy making stuff for city skylines does 1 building for each x dollars he's given. Perfectly legal and a better scheme than the usual "put your mod on the nexus and hold someone clicks a donate link". That is what bethesda doesn't want to see when FO4 or TES6 comes out.
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Apr 27, 2015 00:02
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Is there any other industry on the planet where such a large percentage of consumers themselves will criticize anyone looking for the most basic of consumer rights and protections as entitled assholes? gently caress video games and gently caress anyone who thinks mods should cost money. Shimrra Jamaane fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Apr 27, 2015 |
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Apr 27, 2015 00:02
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Klyith posted:They have the power to enforce a cut, that is the reality. There's an argument to make that a mod that wasn't made with their editor, which includes only original assets and doesn't even reference any of their assets (for example a new sword model that isn't even in the world, you have to get it via console), would be enough of an independent thing that they'd have no claim on it. Most mods are not that, they touch enough of bethesda's content that they aren't fully original. I am pretty on board with the idea that Bethesda got their cut when people bought their game for which modding is a selling point.
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Apr 27, 2015 00:08
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Is there any other industry on the planet where such a large percentage of consumers themselves will criticize anyone looking for the most basic of consumer rights and protections as entitled assholes? It's like how I went to the grocery store and got some milk. A day later I found out the milk was spoiled. I took it back, and their answer was "The community will sort it out." True story!
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Apr 27, 2015 00:12
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Looks like more effort here than in a few of those actual pay mods too. Edit: And it is actually possible to make the console necessary armor mod's esp without touching the CK. You just need to use TESedit. I made a race mod and an armor mod for myself just using that. This was for Oblivion mind you, but I remember doing similar stuff with Skyrim when I played it. So, as long as you don't use the CK at all.. and don't use Bethesda's assets at all... why should they deserve anything? Moryrie fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Apr 27, 2015 |
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Apr 27, 2015 00:20
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GunnerJ posted:I am pretty on board with the idea that Bethesda got their cut when people bought their game for which modding is a selling point. An argument I've seen recently is that Bethesda already gets a twofold cut from a mod: One from the person who bought the game and modded it, and another from the person who bought the game to use the mod. Add DLC-dependent mods to the mix and that's another layer.
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Apr 27, 2015 00:28
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