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Hellioning posted:As a part of the writers attempt to turn Green Arrow into Batman, yes. I would have argued with you on that and then Ra's happened. yeah...
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Apr 27, 2015 03:27
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Major_JF posted:I would have argued with you on that and then Ra's happened. yeah... Batman-like, except Batman refused to become Ra's heir and Oliver didn't.
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Apr 27, 2015 06:07
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I'm a bit behind, having just discovered the LP and all, but Killer Croc bitchslapping that henchmen for no reason whatsoever will always be the weirdest part of the opening. That and Batman: Tell me what I want to know! Goon: Screw you. Batman: I'm going to break your bones! Goon: I'll never talk. Batman: I don't have time for this! Goon: Oh, okay, I'll tell you then.
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Apr 27, 2015 06:10
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Video 5 Notes DECODING PENGUIN'S SECURITY CODE The detective mode design and interface is often really sloppily done in this game- there's a lot of tell and little show. Concept Art Areas It's pretty clear that interior spaces in AO were made by creating a list of setpieces and stringing them together, regardless of larger structural form, gameplay consequences, exploration limits, etc. One great example of this is the bar you pop up in- it was drawn as concept art, presumably as a combat space, but here it does absolutely nothing. This is a common trend in the game. See also: giant 10 story tall frozen area out of nowhere, much higher than all the decks of the ship combined. I'll get into why this really sucks from a play perspective later on. New Enemy: Enforcer The enforcer is rare- he appears in set storyline battles and in a couple crimes in progress. He works well enough, for the most part- clearly a refurbished version of the Hammer and Sickle brothers from AC merged with Titan users, they're basically a block of meat you spam hits into and dodge away from when they strike/charge. There is occasional bugginess when you try to move between fighting an enforcer and other enemies, but nothing much worse than you'd encounter in other fights in this game. Since this is pretty boring commentary, let me give you a dangling question: Predator mode includes armored enemies; what would happen if Enforcers, Shields, and other combat-equipped enemies could also be wandering around predator rooms with guns? How might your set of options change? Deathstroke Slade here is tied for my favorite boss in the game (the other one is more divisive). It's a shame scruffy isn't going to shoot for the point-counterpoint achievement, but ah well. The keys to this fight seeming so appealing are multifold, but discernible. First, there are several variable segments with a clear sense of progression and markers to show your progress- weapons change and the mask comes off. Slade also gets new attacks in each segment. Second, the devs actually have planned responses for each set of actions the player can take, including all of their (limited) set of gadgets. Importantly, Slade also has a response- his taunts both guide the player toward correct behavior, and give players the impression that the opponent is intelligent. On the same note, Third, Slade has a very rudimentary reactive AI. If you spam any particular move, particularly the grapnel, he'll begin dodging it almost all the time. This is easy to implement, but it does a tremendous amount to both sell the player on the personification of the opponent as intelligent, and to get them to try other things- other things that the devs want them to learn or notice. (spoiler alert- none of these nice features will show up again. The devs made this fight first as a showcase, and none of the later fights- including the other one I like!- have anywhere near this much thought put into them.) On the downside, the combo timing thing with slowdown and markers really isn't very clear. A big part of this is that a couple of the attack animations have points where everything in the animation tells you to counter- Bats gets seemingly hit, or slade does a fairly telegraphed attack. You have to wait for these things that tell you to hit the counter key to pass, and wait for the slowdown (and indicator, on easier modes) to hit the button. This seems like it would be ok, but it's actually really quite immersion-breaking. There are a ton of cues and reminders for this, some of them added after launch, iirc, because the "wait to counter" thing is so counterintuitive. It also never comes up again for the rest of the game.  Most interactions with Slade are much more tightly scripted than one might realize- and there are ways to screw with the fight that often become apparent when going for the perfect counter achievement. In particular, after each of the neutral animations that the game does to re-center the fight, you can immediately, turn and punch him in the back of the head. Hell, if you're aggressive, you can get a free hit or two in after most interactions as Slade returns to his default pose. Can't make up his mind I mentioned that there was evidence that the cutscenes were made first, and this is my favorite example. Watch the Deathstroke intro scene again. As it ends, Slade menacingly draws his Hanzo steel. Then the game transitions to in-engine, and Slade says, "nah", puts it away and gets the staff out. The devs had to do that to compensate for the fact that the cutscene showing Slade draw the blade was already finished- and it was made before the devs even gave Slade a staff. Falcone, Penguin, and dangling plot threads Say hello to Alberto Falcone! Also, say goodbye. Aside from some unlockable audiotapes, Alberto, and his entire organized crime family, do not reappear in any way in the rest of the game. In fact, neither do Penguin, his assistants, or anything else in this part of the game, though I think Penguin's goons show up a little bit later on. It appears likely that this stuff was all going to be further developed, probably as a sidequest or two, that got dropped in development. Generally, I suspect that the Long Halloween (the most famous set of comics involving Calendar Man, and introducing Alberto), were originally meant to play a larger role. As it stands, like a lot of things in this game, Penguin, Alberto, the Falcones, and everyone else get raised, only to get dropped. My guess? They scrapped a lot of it, but couldn't drop Alberto from the game because, again, he was already in the cutscene. Candy and Tracey are terrible. Not Catwoman terrible, it's true, but still in the school of threatening, but not to anyone that matters, eye candy plot objects. Speculation I think the Final Offer was developed early and that most of its parts may have been intended as an internal "vertical slice" of gameplay. It's much more developed and designed than any other similarly sized interior space in the game. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Apr 27, 2015 |
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Apr 27, 2015 06:13
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A lot of this game seems like really genuinely good ideas and then bad executions. Like, the seeds are there, but so much seems scrapped, unpolished, or bugged.
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Apr 27, 2015 06:31
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Enigma: You know, if you had asked nicely, I'd of opened it for you. This typo combined with the smug, know-it-all character it's associated with, bugs me so much. Discendo Vox posted:Say hello to Alberto Falcone! Also, say goodbye. Aside from some unlockable audiotapes, Alberto, and his entire organized crime family, do not reappear in any way in the rest of the game. On the matter of Alberto being completely forgotten, does Batman even rescue him? Because it honestly seems like he just burst in, beat up Penguin's guys, and then left Alberto and those other guys with a bunch of people who probably have a lot more aggression to work off of now.
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Apr 27, 2015 08:17
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:On the matter of Alberto being completely forgotten, does Batman even rescue him? Because it honestly seems like he just burst in, beat up Penguin's guys, and then left Alberto and those other guys with a bunch of people who probably have a lot more aggression to work off of now. I'd like to think that Alberto's "Guard" got him out. "Yeah Boss, the Penguin's goons kept me out of the meeting! It wasn't until the Bat crashed that I found out that the Bird did to your son!"
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Apr 27, 2015 08:18
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Growing up not reading comics and only watching the cartoons, I thought Slade from Teen Titans was going to be Batman.
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Apr 27, 2015 08:37
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:On the matter of Alberto being completely forgotten, does Batman even rescue him? Because it honestly seems like he just burst in, beat up Penguin's guys, and then left Alberto and those other guys with a bunch of people who probably have a lot more aggression to work off of now. Batman didn't kill him. Not our problem. Deathstroke goes faster if you play a little aggressively. If you can build the combo for it, combat takedowns take a chunk of his health. If you slide at him, he'll do a little hop over you. 
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Apr 27, 2015 10:36
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See, this is why I do not like Deathstroke. Suddenly all of your stuff stops working and you are being railroaded to an only correct sequence of action. He is a puzzle, not a fight.
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Apr 27, 2015 10:57
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Finally caught up on the thread. In regards to a comment by a thug about a "Mickey"/"Lefty" in video 4, I want to say that's one of Bruce's aliases for Matches Malone. I don't know for sure though. Also, one thing I really enjoy about Origins is how when there's only one guy left, he'll generally freak out about the fact that you beat up everyone else and give some kind of special quote. And finally, how has it taken Batman two years to learn how to interrogate people for information?! Doctor Reynolds posted:Growing up not reading comics and only watching the cartoons, I thought Slade from Teen Titans was going to be Batman. Same here. Later I found out that I actually had read a comic when I was younger featuring Deathstroke and Batman fighting, though, and it blew my mind. anilEhilated posted:See, this is why I do not like Deathstroke. Suddenly all of your stuff stops working and you are being railroaded to an only correct sequence of action. He is a puzzle, not a fight. Discendo Vox raised a good point about him being a jarring shift from everything else in the game. Good concept, but too largely different. Personally, I like him, but I could see how people could find him frustrating. I recall an interview saying that the assassins were intended to be tricky fights that tested how well you mastered the game's systems, but we've seen how Killer Croc was just an armored thug that threw scenery bits at you. Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 11:18 on Apr 27, 2015 |
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Apr 27, 2015 11:06
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Finally caught up on the thread. I can confirm that Lefty is an alias for Bruce Wayne, but it's different from Matches. That goes into the pile of little callouts I like.
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Apr 27, 2015 11:18
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The only fight in the Arkham series that really work as a mechanics masterclass (as opposed to punch-time) is Mister Freeze in City.
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Apr 27, 2015 12:04
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I noticed a lot of the problems the others have mentioned, but there's two that stand out to me: - The voices: You beat up the same guy in every single location, and he's the black resistance fighter from half life 2. I realize getting 100s of VAs would be a daunting task, but it just feels dumb. I imagine this guy running all over town, changing costumes, getting new weapons, getting beat the hell up, and then dragging himself into his car to get to the next spot. - The scale: This was mostly noticeable in the early videos but every time Batman goes through a door it's a little giggle, because the door knob is usually somewhere between his shoulder and his head, like a little Smurf Batman.
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Apr 27, 2015 12:15
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Scaramouche posted:- The voices: You beat up the same guy in every single location, and he's the black resistance fighter from half life 2. I realize getting 100s of VAs would be a daunting task, but it just feels dumb. I imagine this guy running all over town, changing costumes, getting new weapons, getting beat the hell up, and then dragging himself into his car to get to the next spot.
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Apr 27, 2015 12:28
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anilEhilated posted:This has been obvious in the first two games too. Basically everyone in Gotham is Steve Blum, Robin Downes or Nolan North. Isn't Nolan North the VA for Nathan Drake in the Uncharted series IIRC?
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Apr 28, 2015 01:54
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Dariusknight posted:Isn't Nolan North the VA for Nathan Drake in the Uncharted series IIRC? He's the VA for a hell of a lot more than that. Nolan North and Steve Blum are pretty much the majority of the voices you will hear in videogames, it feel like.
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Apr 28, 2015 02:08
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paragon1 posted:He's the VA for a hell of a lot more than that. Nolan North and Steve Blum are pretty much the majority of the voices you will hear in videogames, it feel like. With Liam O'Brien shoring up the older end of the scale, and Quinton Flynn and Yuri Lowenthal on the younger end for the more teenage protagonists. If it's a woman then it's Jennifer Hale if she's aged above 29 or 'deeper', Tara Strong if you need a high or squeaky voice and Kath Soucie is everyone else.
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Apr 28, 2015 03:31
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Now that Vox mentions it, a game about The Long Halloween would've kicked rear end. Probably not enough punching and too much detectiveing, but still fun. or maybe just implementing it more into the game. I'm saving my complaints about the plot of this game for when we get to it though. For now this is just Mega Man: B and scruffy chose to start on Deathstroke's stage. It pissed me off watching the video in the LP when Slade drew his sword and didn't have it in the start of the fight. That's such a silly thing to botch.
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Apr 28, 2015 03:51
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SonicRulez posted:It pissed me off watching the video in the LP when Slade drew his sword and didn't have it in the start of the fight. That's such a silly thing to botch. Again, the order of production for the game seems to have been: 1. Write script for game 2. SPOILERS 3. Rewrite large chunks of script, place through blender 4. Concept art 5. Make all cutscenes, use cutscenes in advertising 6. Begin to make/design game, realize script won't work like 20 different ways and is full of holes you created in step 3 7. Realize you can't alter cutscenes for some reason, probably related to scheduling/staff reassignment 8. well, poo poo 9. Design around it as much as possible 10. Realize you are going to run out of development time 11. Assign entirely separate teams for each area of the game with minimal coordination 13. Tun out of time anyways 14. "Well, we can fix it with a patch after release" Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 04:01
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15. Don't fix it in patch after release. I found at least one place in the game where they forgot to finish putting the textures on part of a building.
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Apr 28, 2015 04:08
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SonicRulez posted:Now that Vox mentions it, a game about The Long Halloween would've kicked rear end. Probably not enough punching and too much detectiveing, but still fun. or maybe just implementing it more into the game. Less fighting, more detectiving is exactly what I want from a Batman game. I found I got sick of Asylum and City really quickly because of how much of them is just "go to place, punch dudes, repeat".
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Apr 28, 2015 06:42
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paragon1 posted:15. Don't fix it in patch after release. This is a thing the devs said.
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Apr 28, 2015 10:42
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The worst thing about it is that this game has a few locations that can cause a glitch that will cause Batman to get stuck in an endless limbo and auto-save while this is happening. I had this happen to me once, though fortunately it was early in the game on the Final Offer so I didn't lose much progress. The most infamous of the locations that causes this glitch is mandatory to visit in the DLC. Spoiling this in case Scruffy wants to mention it when we get to said location. Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 13:03 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 12:59
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Doc Morbid posted:More specifically, "Don't fix it in patch after release because DLC is your main priority."
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Apr 28, 2015 21:26
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One nice touch I liked in the ending to the Deathstroke fight is how Batman manages to finish him off by using the sword to make Slade turn his blind side towards Batman. That was a clever move that didn't get any special attention drawn to it but is obvious in retrospect.TwoPair posted:While I probably have less complaints than most with this game, this video does have something that really bothers me: Like, at the end of that video, I don't think it's a big spoiler saying that Penguin really is safe behind the door and you really don't get him for the rest of the game. He just gets to sit there and mock you. There's a real lack of catharsis knowing that the villain is just taunting you behind that door. Yeah, don't know why he effectively gets away at the end, not like it would have affected the "timeline" much if he got arrested or just laid out on the floor unconscious like most of Batman's enemies in these games - Shiva aside anyway, but she at least is scary competent enough to buy not being caught.
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Apr 28, 2015 21:54
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They really should have had a scene where you chuck loose lips into something important and sink the ship, forcing the penguin out of safety and loose lips to live up to the frequent saying.
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Apr 28, 2015 22:15
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FoolyCharged posted:They really should have had a scene where you chuck loose lips into something important and sink the ship, forcing the penguin out of safety and loose lips to live up to the frequent saying. Maybe this is why Penguin switched to the Iceberg Lounge.
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Apr 28, 2015 22:39
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I'm really enjoying the LP! Though this game seems to really hold your hand. "Ok Alfred tell me [and also the player] where to go next!" and "Hrrmm I can use the BatDetector to locate DNA on the wall and use it to open the door."
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Apr 29, 2015 04:12
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Wedemeyer posted:I'm really enjoying the LP! Though this game seems to really hold your hand. "Ok Alfred tell me [and also the player] where to go next!" and "Hrrmm I can use the BatDetector to locate DNA on the wall and use it to open the door." It's not the first time nor the last time I'll defend the game but the others haven't always been better. Batman always has a link back to somebody, whether it be Alfred or Oracle, who helps point out where you should be going next. I still like the crime scene investigations. Also full disclosure: I'm recording a lot of this game as fast as possible because I want to just do it and be done with it. Right now I'm up to 13. But with vacations and work it's good to have a backlog. Speaking of having more videos!  Lacey Things/Polsy DLC Predator Challenge: No Money Down/Polsy with Bruce WayneThere's some wandering around and some story in this video, so we find out just what happened in Black Mask's apartment. Huzzah!
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Apr 29, 2015 19:55
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I'm still annoyed that they made a prequel entirely to keep the Joker in the series.
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Apr 29, 2015 21:10
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I like the crime scene investigation here, with one notably glaring exception. Batman uses his magical bullshit vision to scan all sorts of information from the flimsiest of evidence, creates a full 3D reconstruction of all the events in the crime scene despite how much evidence must have been destroyed by the fire, works his way back through every event of the crime... and only then does he notice that there's a cellphone on the floor with the victim's last messages on.
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Apr 29, 2015 21:20
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I don't know I thought the whole crime scene thing was pretty amazing.
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Apr 29, 2015 21:37
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Ultrastun to ground & pound is another quick & easy way to deal with armored thugs if you've got no other takedown options. Since ultrastun does a fair amount of knockback sometimes it'll throw a thug over a ledge for an instant KO. The conditions for certain medals seems really wonky, there's a medal for using gel to blow off a thug from a ladder but you can also do it with a boosted batarang  inflatablefish posted:I like the crime scene investigation here, with one notably glaring exception. Batman uses his magical bullshit vision to scan all sorts of information from the flimsiest of evidence, creates a full 3D reconstruction of all the events in the crime scene despite how much evidence must have been destroyed by the fire, works his way back through every event of the crime... and only then does he notice that there's a cellphone on the floor with the victim's last messages on. It's pretty weak that you can't scan in details like that before the reconstruction for sure, especially when they're out in the open. The only reason not to is if you're very particular about determining why things are where you found them before you poke at it. Sir Potato posted:I don't know I thought the whole crime scene thing was pretty amazing. That crime scene was pretty good, it's really more of a nitpick in the end.
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Apr 29, 2015 21:48
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Sir Potato posted:I don't know I thought the whole crime scene thing was pretty amazing. It's pretty much the only thing this game does better than the first two.
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Apr 29, 2015 21:59
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Anime Reference posted:It's pretty much the only thing this game does better than the first two. Yeah, having played the first two a ridiculous amount of times and never this one, it's pretty clear I'm not missing much beyond the crime scene stuff.
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Apr 29, 2015 22:04
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He was somehow able to identify a man by his fingerprints without actually being able to see his fingerprints and was able to determine the GSR spray pattern from a brief visual inspection but for some reason his magical bullshit-o-vision can't do DNA yet.
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Apr 29, 2015 22:15
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I like AO quite a bit and feel the the biggest complaint was unfair. Abloo abloo, it's too much like Arkham City. So? Didn't you like AC? So why complain? I wish more great games would have indirect sequels using pretty much the same engine and everything. The whole thing doesn't have to be redone to be good. And AO has an interesting story to tell. E: Also, are you trying to get this done in the next seven weeks or so? To finish before the new game? And would that mean you are going to blind LP Knight? Waltzing Along fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Apr 29, 2015 |
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Apr 29, 2015 22:54
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Not going to lie: Anarky was probably my favorite side mission in Origins. The bomb music was great, the idealistic 'villain' who wants to make a change angle was also a pretty good juxtaposition for a rookie Batman, and I like the character a lot as well. Kurieg posted:He was somehow able to identify a man by his fingerprints without actually being able to see his fingerprints and was able to determine the GSR spray pattern from a brief visual inspection but for some reason his magical bullshit-o-vision can't do DNA yet. Let's not forget that the first crime scene investigation was him discovering a person's identity by staring at the back of their head. Really, the thing that bothers me the most is that the body is just left under a tarp at the crime scene, with no cops or paramedics around at all.  I also like the crime scene investigations, though. They're much better than the "Stare at this object while Batman does everything" events from City. Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Apr 29, 2015 |
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Apr 29, 2015 23:32
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Yeah, the crime scenes are glorified cut scenes, but they're fun glorified cut scenes. I hope they took a cue from them and we get something similar in knight. scruffy if you're that far ahead please tell me in the next story mission you ignored the games pleas to run away from all the men with guns and proceeded to "sneak past" and then "flee" from rooms full of unconscious enemies.
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Apr 29, 2015 23:35
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