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Hello Sailor posted:Not buying your "babies prefer people who look like their parents, so therefore people are inherently broken" argument. So inherent racism is good then? Fascinating.
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Apr 28, 2015 23:47
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making GBS threads yourself is also not good, but not evidence that humans are inherently broken because babies do it.
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Apr 28, 2015 23:54
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OwlFancier posted:making GBS threads yourself is also not good, but not evidence that humans are inherently broken because babies do it. making GBS threads yourself is also nothing like racism. Good try though.
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Apr 28, 2015 23:58
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I dunno, basic compulsive instinct which is overcome by conscious self interest and constructive pressure from society? Seems comparable. Edit: Speaking of making GBS threads yourself that loving avatar nearly made me do it. Well done on putting the fear of god in me whoever bought that.
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Apr 29, 2015 00:02
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OwlFancier posted:I dunno, basic compulsive instinct which is overcome by conscious self interest and constructive pressure from society? Seems comparable. The difference is that making GBS threads yourself is something that you pretty much grow out of when left to your own devices, not like you remain incontinent your entire life. Bowel control comes pretty naturally.
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Apr 29, 2015 00:09
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How about fondling random women's tits? Essentially the point I am trying to impart is that "babies do it so we're hosed" is a bit silly. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Apr 29, 2015 |
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Apr 29, 2015 00:13
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Sinnlos posted:So inherent racism is good then? Fascinating. Only if you're so incredibly stupid as to equate "preferring the familiar" with "racism".
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Apr 29, 2015 00:20
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Sinnlos posted:Your argument is a false one, as we would have no way of knowing the chances of success versus failure. Is it not more virtuous to make the attempt to save the other man then?
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Apr 29, 2015 00:23
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Hello Sailor posted:Only if you're so incredibly stupid as to equate "preferring the familiar" with "racism". So when do humans naturally and instinctively discard with preferring the familiar (those of the same race) then? Nessus posted:As long, of course, as we emulate Christ in the RIGHT way, which is based on the RIGHT interpretation, and, mysteriously, does not discomfort the established, eh? Christianity was extremely discomforting to the established. That's why Jesus was nailed to the cross.
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Apr 29, 2015 00:29
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Sinnlos posted:We know for example, that babies are inherently prefer members of their own race. Ho.ho.holy poo poo  Sinnlos posted:So when do humans naturally and instinctively discard with preferring the familiar (those of the same race) then? Are you SERIOUSLY loving insinuating that racism is born, not taught? Holy poo poo. Sinnlos posted:Christianity was extremely discomforting to the established. That's why Jesus was nailed to the cross. If we buy the story of the crowd calling for it and Pilate's dilemma, he was nailed to the cross to stop a potential insurrection by an angry mob. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Apr 29, 2015 |
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Apr 29, 2015 00:58
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Sinnlos posted:Christianity was extremely discomforting to the established. That's why Jesus was nailed to the cross.
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Apr 29, 2015 00:59
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CommieGIR posted:Ho.ho.holy poo poo There is research on the subject. http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/1477937 The mob was mobilized as Jesus was a danger to the authority of the Sanhedrin. Don't play dumb please.
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Apr 29, 2015 01:06
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Sinnlos posted:So when do humans naturally and instinctively discard with preferring the familiar (those of the same race) then? Don't try and dodge. How is a preference for the familiar the same thing as racism?
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Apr 29, 2015 01:15
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Hello Sailor posted:Don't try and dodge. How is a preference for the familiar the same thing as racism? A 9 month old instinctively prefers members of their own race. At age 3, they prefer to play with members of their own race. In elementary school they start forming cliques that exclude based on race. This process continues until we systematically entrap minorities in poverty and exclude them from power structures. Is some of this socialized? Of course it is! But a 9 month old is not socialized into preferring one race over another, it is a phenomenon that occurs as the brain goes through post-natal development.
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Apr 29, 2015 01:23
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I wonder how the children manage to know which race is which. Is there some child brain structure that can sort out by such features, or is it perhaps just reading a huge amount into 'baby prefers people who resemble it to some extent, children exclude those who look different' to reach 'therefore racism is the inevitable fruit of Fallen Man'?
Nessus fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Apr 29, 2015 |
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Apr 29, 2015 01:49
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Nessus posted:I wonder how the children manage to know which race is which. Is there some child brain structure that can sort out by such features, or is it perhaps just reading a huge amount into 'baby prefers people who resemble it to some extent, children exclude those who look different' to reach 'therefore racism is the inevitable fruit of Fallen Man'? Yes, there is a part of the brain that is set aside to recognize facial features, including race, that starts getting used around the 9 month mark. The article I post expands on this and contains further links.
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Apr 29, 2015 01:54
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Nessus posted:I wonder how the children manage to know which race is which.
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Apr 29, 2015 01:57
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Sinnlos posted:Your argument is a false one, as we would have no way of knowing the chances of success versus failure. Is it not more virtuous to make the attempt to save the other man then? quote:Furthermore, I am perplexed by your assertion that believing all humans are inherently evil is itself an evil idea. We know for example, that babies are inherently prefer members of their own race. The core message of Christianity is that we are all sinners, yes, but that through emulating Christ, we can improve ourselves and the lives of others. A lot of misconceptions here, first is the thing others have called you out on: what a baby does is not representative of the species as a whole. Second, "emulating Christ" is so broad a term as to be almost meaningless. Should I tell people to hate their fathers, and abandon their mothers? Or did you mean only the nice stuff about loving your neighbors? Do I also have to multiply bread and fish? Lastly, we can discern "good morals" without having to define those as "whatever Jesus as presented in the Gospels did". And lastly: OF loving COURSE IT'S AN EVIL IDEA!!!! HOLY poo poo, ARE YOU SERIOUS??? ME ASSERTING THAT EVERY HUMAN DESIRES EVIL IN THEIR HEARTS IS A GOOD THING???? WHAT THE HELL ELSE WOULD IT BE?!?!?
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Apr 29, 2015 02:04
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Sinnlos posted:The mob was mobilized as Jesus was a danger to the authority of the Sanhedrin. Don't play dumb please.  Yeah, that is why it happened, not because Pilate wanted to pacify a large crowd. Don't play dumb please.Sinnlos posted:Yes, there is a part of the brain that is set aside to recognize facial features, including race, that starts getting used around the 9 month mark. The article I post expands on this and contains further links. If you click the actual study, they were looking at Gender bias, not racial bias. While the racial characteristic were used, it in no way implied that a baby is racist. They specifically say different GENDERS faces have different color tones and facial features. But this doesn't count as racism, as the baby does not imply a dislike or hatred of a specific color, only a preference. Its not what you are implying, nitwit. It more implies imprinting to identity a specific parent, not a race. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Apr 29, 2015 |
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Apr 29, 2015 02:12
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Sinnlos posted:Yes, there is a part of the brain that is set aside to recognize facial features, including race, that starts getting used around the 9 month mark. The article I post expands on this and contains further links. Also, asserting everyone is inherently evil is very easily used as a justification for all sorts of injustices and abuses in the world. While this may be a valuable psychological coping mechanism, it can also be a call to inaction.
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Apr 29, 2015 02:20
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"Babies are racist" is an incredibly premature conclusion to come to, "they prefer people who look like themselves or their parents" is more accurate. "Races" are themselves diverse categories created by socialization and exposure, you shouldn't be projecting that sort of thing onto children. This message of 'people are broken' is an evil message used to control people with guilt. The truth is subtler, people are capable of good and bad. Neither is more 'human' and neither can be removed, you just deal with it. So if granting sweeping political powers tends to make people indifferent to the less fortunate (it does), then you structures society so as to minimize the power any one person has. That's just common sense.
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Apr 29, 2015 02:49
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rudatron posted:"Babies are racist" is an incredibly premature conclusion to come to, "they prefer people who look like themselves or their parents" is more accurate. "Races" are themselves diverse categories created by socialization and exposure, you shouldn't be projecting that sort of thing onto children. But if I recall, you are a socialist, and so you believe that in order to create such an "ideal" society, first some pure-hearted soul(s) would have to take power and purge all the unbelievers.
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Apr 29, 2015 04:13
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Kyrie eleison posted:But if I recall, you are a socialist, and so you believe that in order to create such an "ideal" society, first some pure-hearted soul(s) would have to take power and purge all the unbelievers.
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Apr 29, 2015 04:15
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Kyrie eleison posted:Other people support mass murder so often, though; you talk to anyone long enough and you'll find them calling for the extermination for some behavior they dislike, or supporting some-such extermination in history. For instance, a great deal of people here in America support the Civil War, which killed hundreds of thousands, on ideological grounds; similarly, they support the killing of millions of Germans during World War II. I know countless "enlightened liberals" who think the massacre of tens of thousands of people in the French Revolution was righteous, and plenty of conservative-minded folk who think it was a good thing that two Japanese cities and their inhabitants were killed by nuclear bombs. People here on this very forum are constantly boasting of their villainous tendencies, pining for revolution (and the rolling heads that would entail). I just don't know how you can look at humanity and get this impression that you have that most people aren't cold-blooded killers. Once you admit that you would kill to protect a life (even if you are so selfless as to be unwilling to defend your own), then you have established that there are some things that are worth more than human life. So the only way to, logically, escape this willingness to commit mass-murder is to be willing to surrender your life to anyone who demands it. Turn and offer up the other cheek. But is this something that anyone can really be expected to do?
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Apr 29, 2015 04:24
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Kyrie eleison posted:But if I recall, you are a socialist, and so you believe that in order to create such an "ideal" society, first some pure-hearted soul(s) would have to take power and purge all the unbelievers. Generally I go with supporting the development of the welfare state and that, but maybe that's just me.
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Apr 29, 2015 04:38
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Kyrie eleison posted:But if I recall, you are a socialist, and so you believe that in order to create such an "ideal" society, first some pure-hearted soul(s) would have to take power and purge all the unbelievers.
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Apr 29, 2015 04:44
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OwlFancier posted:Generally I go with supporting the development of the welfare state and that, but maybe that's just me. If you think about it and find the answer is "No," of course, you are a dumb dumb head. Probably Hell-bound.
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Apr 29, 2015 04:48
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Kyrie eleison posted:But if I recall, you are a socialist, and so you believe that in order to create such an "ideal" society, first some pure-hearted soul(s) would have to take power and purge all the unbelievers. It's probably best if you don't assume you know what anyone else believes, particularly when your metric is the application of such a simplistic label.
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Apr 29, 2015 05:29
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Kyrie eleison posted:Other people support mass murder so often, though; you talk to anyone long enough and you'll find them calling for the extermination for some behavior they dislike, or supporting some-such extermination in history. For instance, a great deal of people here in America support the Civil War, which killed hundreds of thousands, on ideological grounds; similarly, they support the killing of millions of Germans during World War II. I know countless "enlightened liberals" who think the massacre of tens of thousands of people in the French Revolution was righteous, and plenty of conservative-minded folk who think it was a good thing that two Japanese cities and their inhabitants were killed by nuclear bombs. People here on this very forum are constantly boasting of their villainous tendencies, pining for revolution (and the rolling heads that would entail). I just don't know how you can look at humanity and get this impression that you have that most people aren't cold-blooded killers. Don't you want the Catholic Church to have an army and rule an empire again? How does that work, overpower the Lutherans and Orthodox and Sunnis with snuggles and kisses?
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Apr 29, 2015 05:49
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Sinnlos posted:There is research on the subject. Babies gravitate to people who look like the people they interact with the most, not with people who look like them, dumbass. Babies don't know what they look like: they learn what familiar people look like by looking at their family who could quite well not be the same race as them. There's no inherent genetic predilection for a given race because race is not actually a biologically real thing: the whole idea of race is a social construct that's taught to each generation. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Apr 29, 2015 |
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Apr 29, 2015 05:54
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What if Revelations was actually not the story of the end of the world, but the story of human life in general, on the individual and societal scale. Since Jesus himself, Christians have believed that they are living in the end times right now, and, well, 2000 years came and went with not so much as a pip from the Great Bearded Dude. The beast to overcome is us, you and I, and those things that hold us back, and the kingdom of heaven is only something we can momentarily aim to create here on Earth in our lives. The story of Revelations repeats over and over into eternity because life is struggle. Because we are limited by the perspective of our own world, the onus is upon us to become a messiah within our own life. Sorry if I sound like a crazy person. America Inc. fucked around with this message at 07:13 on Apr 29, 2015 |
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Apr 29, 2015 06:56
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That conflicts with the metaphor of the crucifixion as a singular event: if everything is cyclic, then there's no difference between events that happened before it and events that happened after it.
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Apr 29, 2015 07:29
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rudatron posted:That conflicts with the metaphor of the crucifixion as a singular event: if everything is cyclic, then there's no difference between events that happened before it and events that happened after it.
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Apr 29, 2015 07:44
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Time itself is eternal- even though we experience it as a separate circumstance there is no distinction between the time we live in now and the time of the crucifixion. Cruxifixction and resurrection are both ongoing. E: actually, eternal is not quite the right word because it was created. Miltank fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Apr 29, 2015 |
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Apr 29, 2015 12:33
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VitalSigns posted:Babies gravitate to people who look like the people they interact with the most, not with people who look like them, dumbass. Babies don't know what they look like: they learn what familiar people look like by looking at their family who could quite well not be the same race as them. Thank you Jesus! I've been getting increasingly irritated as I read down the thread and no one said this. Multiple studies have shown that exposure to more different looking people during early childhood makes babies comfortable with more diverse people. Note why would a helpless infant have a drive to fear strangers and cry out when they are picked up by people that don't look like those they trust? Whelp, humans are racist everyone kill yourself. Kyrie, thanks for responding to me. It's already been touched on, but rhetoric like "kill all the X" is socially and politically rewarded in many circles. That doesn't mean most people literally wish for mass murder, and means even less so that they'd be willing to do it themselves. Human empathy prevents it unless overridden by mob mentality and the like, or in those (estimated 1%) with psychopathy, which represents a difference in physical brain structures. The burden is on you to show that most (or even many) people desire to commit atrocities.
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Apr 29, 2015 17:45
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Trent posted:The burden is on you to show that most (or even many) people desire to commit atrocities. And to add to this, "no way, everyone seems to always wanna like do a murder!" is not proof. We need more than your conjecture.
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Apr 29, 2015 18:00
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CommieGIR posted:
Judas Iscariot was paid off by the Sanhedrin to betray Jesus.
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Apr 29, 2015 18:06
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Sinnlos posted:Judas Iscariot was paid off by the Sanhedrin to betray Jesus. yo sinnlos are you done with your sect-posting in the chat thread 'cos those posts are much more worthwhile than anything you could post itt
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Apr 29, 2015 18:08
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GAINING WEIGHT... posted:And to add to this, "no way, everyone seems to always wanna like do a murder!" is not proof. We need more than your conjecture. Very few people actively want to murder someone right now. But lots of people will let themselves go with the flow, and when that flow is evil, so be it.
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Apr 29, 2015 18:12
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I would also like to state that LookingGodInTheEye, you do indeed sound insane. As far as racist babies go, stating that babies prefer that which they are used to makes sense, and I would love to see additional studies done with infants raised by parents of a different ethnicity. I agree that race is a fluid and social construct, but let us not pretend that those constructs don't rely on obvious physical differences. We all know that my stance is that humans are inherently bad. To expand, I would say that humans are more inherently self-interested, which I believe to be a negative quality. Luckily, that self interest allows for humans to establish mutually beneficial relationships, which leads to good. I know some of you believe that humans are neutral by default, and I have yet to see anyone claim that humans are inherently good. Do you mind expanding on these ideas? Furthermore, while it is admittedly a tone argument, can we please refrain from insults to intelligence and av changes? I honestly wish to engage in discussion, but an overtly hostile environment doesn't really encourage that.
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Apr 29, 2015 18:17
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