terrible programmers: my god, it's full of chars

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > terrible programmers: my god, it's full of chars

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leftist heap: Feb 28, 2013; Fun Shoe

Luigi Thirty posted:

so lisp is, uh, interesting. frightening? emacs sure likes to explode at the drop of a hat

preference for using dashes instead of spaces in everything makes me think of the time i had to do cobol once and i involuntarily vomit all over my computer

Cl is great but just a little too crusty these days. Emacs is cool too.

Not sure what yr getting at with that last point tho

# ? May 2, 2015 03:35

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# ? May 10, 2024 04:31

PleasureKevin: Jan 2, 2011

MALE SHOEGAZE posted:

Nah, this is just the right decision.

so did you take the new job or stay at old one idgi

# ? May 2, 2015 03:36

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

Luigi Thirty posted:

so lisp is, uh, interesting. frightening? emacs sure likes to explode at the drop of a hat

preference for using dashes instead of spaces in everything makes me think of the time i had to do cobol once and i involuntarily vomit all over my computer

I like to point folks at Practical Common Lisp as a decent introduction and overview. what are you learning from?

# ? May 2, 2015 03:47

Luigi Thirty: Apr 30, 2006; Emergency confection port.

eschaton posted:

I like to point folks at Practical Common Lisp as a decent introduction and overview. what are you learning from?

yes that's what i was reading as well

rrrrrrrrrrrt posted:

Not sure what yr getting at with that last point tho

nothing, variable names full of dashes just instinctively make me think of 1970. there's nothing wrong with it.

# ? May 2, 2015 03:56

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

emacs lisp is an attempt to imitate the state of the art in the late 70s, on a grossly inferior hardware and software platform. this makes for a great editor environment but a lousy lisp.

common lisp is an aggregation of all the good and bad ideas of the 1980s into a single "multi-vendor" platform. this comes with both good and bad features.

# ? May 2, 2015 05:43

DONT THREAD ON ME: Oct 1, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo; Floss Finder

i've been doing spacemacs and evil vim and i'm never going back to vim holy poo poo

# ? May 2, 2015 06:00

DONT THREAD ON ME: Oct 1, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo; Floss Finder

helm is like unite except fast instead of insanely slow and it just works for like everything (at least when using spacemacs)

# ? May 2, 2015 06:01

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

Luigi Thirty posted:

preference for using dashes instead of spaces in everything makes me think of the time i had to do cobol once and i involuntarily vomit all over my computer

yeah but camel-case is a worse abomination upon the lord because it is both harder to type and read than dash case

code:

someStupidLongName

some-stupid-long-name

some_stupid_long_name

# ? May 2, 2015 06:46

bobbilljim: May 29, 2013; this christmas feels like the very first christmas to me

comedyblissoption posted:

yeah but camel-case is a worse abomination upon the lord because it is both harder to type and read than dash case
code:
someStupidLongName

some-stupid-long-name

some_stupid_long_name

lol, good one

# ? May 2, 2015 10:11

oh no blimp issue: Feb 23, 2011

gonadic io posted:

you encode your routes in a bunch of integer choices. usually "do i go to node x after visiting y other ones" in a nxn boolean matrix with a bunch of constraints that you can only visit one node at a time etc, as well as the constraints that each element can be only 0 or 1.

so for example, the path 1-2-3-4-5-6 will be the 6x6 identity matrix, whereas 6-5-4-3-2-1 it would be flipped horizontally (i.e. node 6 is first so x_{1,6} = 1 and the rest of row 1 = 0, and node 5 is second so x_{2,5} = 1 and the rest of row 2 = 0, etc.)

the way that branch and bound works, is that you solve WITHOUT the integer constraints so you get, say, A_{1,2} = 0.4

now the branching is, you have two possibilities (since in the actual value needs to be 0 or 1), either A_{1,2} = 0 or = 1. So now you have two models, one for each case. solve both nonintegerly. if one's lower bound is higher than your current best, then congrats you have a new current best. if not, recurse and split each one of those in half.

the case gets a little more interesting with nonboolean variables, as when you have x = 3.6 for some x that needs to eventually be integer, you branch into one with x <= 3 and one with x >= 4.

the trick is deciding WHICH noninteger-but-should-be-integer variable to branch on, and that's still an open problem as far as I know. i've seen some people use whichever is closest to a whole number, some pick randomly, some heuristic based etc.

tl;dr: say you have a constraint 'integer x' in your solution. solve WITHOUT that constraint to get a noninteger x. then you branch on whether to round x up or down.

this is literally my phd topic

ok! i will try and make sense of this!

# ? May 2, 2015 16:33

jony neuemonic: Nov 13, 2009

MALE SHOEGAZE posted:

i've been doing spacemacs and evil vim and i'm never going back to vim holy poo poo

spacemacs is a cool idea but it has so many plugins installed / enabled by default. evil is good stuff though.

# ? May 2, 2015 16:46

leftist heap: Feb 28, 2013; Fun Shoe

i've been meaning to give evil a try. right now i have a set of OS X command button shortcuts that serves me pretty well

personally i've given up on any emacs package distributions. it's just way too much poo poo when for my purposes i can get by with maybe 200-300 lines of el. i'd rather deal with my janky, hand-written, bespoke init.el then crawl through thousands of lines of config across 20 files or so. some of these emacs people turn their emacs config into a huge loving project.

# ? May 2, 2015 17:51

FamDav: Mar 29, 2008

last time I tried to get evil mode working in emacs it took like an hour because I couldn't find a single tutorial on emacs that actually just force fed you the primitives instead of expecting me to know every key command as a prereq.

once neovim has a decent scripting language I see no reason why emacs can't fall into the ocean.

# ? May 2, 2015 17:51

brap: Aug 23, 2004; Grimey Drawer

can anyone prove that the time spent learning and loving around with stupid command line text editors has made them more productive

# ? May 2, 2015 17:58

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

fleshweasel posted:

can anyone prove that the time spent learning and loving around with stupid command line text editors has made them more productive

emacs is a gui application

# ? May 2, 2015 18:28

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

FamDav posted:

once neovim has a decent scripting language I see no reason why emacs can't fall into the ocean.

sadly i don't think neovim learned any of the important lessons from emacs

they're just turning vim into emacs

# ? May 2, 2015 18:28

leftist heap: Feb 28, 2013; Fun Shoe

what are the important lessons from emacs?

# ? May 2, 2015 18:29

Marsol0: Jun 6, 2004; No avatar. I just saved you some load time. You're welcome.

rrrrrrrrrrrt posted:

what are the important lessons from emacs?

don't be emacs

# ? May 2, 2015 18:31

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

Awia posted:

ok! i will try and make sense of this!

learn branch and bound (the majority of that post except for the first two paragraphs) first, then it'll be easy to see how to encode a TSP problem so that B&B will solve it

gonadic io fucked around with this message at 18:53 on May 2, 2015

# ? May 2, 2015 18:33

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

rrrrrrrrrrrt posted:

what are the important lessons from emacs?

you need threading or multitasking on day one, you don't want to hack it in later

don't use a lovely language because you're going to live with it a long, long time

neovim re-made both mistakes immediately loool

# ? May 2, 2015 18:38

Luigi Thirty: Apr 30, 2006; Emergency confection port.

rrrrrrrrrrrt posted:

what are the important lessons from emacs?

i used it and now I compulsively want to eat my own foot fungus

# ? May 2, 2015 18:48

jony neuemonic: Nov 13, 2009

rrrrrrrrrrrt posted:

personally i've given up on any emacs package distributions. it's just way too much poo poo when for my purposes i can get by with maybe 200-300 lines of el. i'd rather deal with my janky, hand-written, bespoke init.el then crawl through thousands of lines of config across 20 files or so. some of these emacs people turn their emacs config into a huge loving project.

this has been my experience too. even prelude which is pretty sensible winds up being overkill. i just wanted my fairly minimal vimrc replicated in evil.

# ? May 2, 2015 18:57

DONT THREAD ON ME: Oct 1, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo; Floss Finder

fidel sarcastro posted:

this has been my experience too. even prelude which is pretty sensible winds up being overkill. i just wanted my fairly minimal vimrc replicated in evil.

If you want minimal vim just use vim

If you want vim inside a powerful development tool, use spacemacs

# ? May 2, 2015 19:01

distortion park: Apr 25, 2011

If you want to get stuff done, use a real ide

# ? May 2, 2015 19:07

jony neuemonic: Nov 13, 2009

MALE SHOEGAZE posted:

If you want minimal vim just use vim

If you want vim inside a powerful development tool, use spacemacs

i write enough lisp that i'll always have to use emacs some of the time.

i eventually did wind up porting over my vim config, so now i only have one weirdo crufty editor to deal with. bonus: slime keybindings that won't destroy my hands.

# ? May 2, 2015 19:36

Malcolm XML: Aug 8, 2009; I always knew it would end like ｔｈｉｓ．

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

you need threading or multitasking on day one, you don't want to hack it in later

don't use a lovely language because you're going to live with it a long, long time

neovim re-made both mistakes immediately loool

lua and baking in job control?

# ? May 2, 2015 19:41

poik007: Aug 16, 2006; Thinks Mother 3 is the best game ever

hi terrible programmers thread i work in a LAMP stack and my job had me do stuff in C/Java/Objective C/C# and i have to run a linux virtual machine to compile the c stuff because of some dependencies

and someday ill quit this poo poo job and itll all crumble because 1) they will need to find someone who does all this for poo poo pay and 2) im a terrible programmer and all of my code is duct taped together with stupid hacks forever instead of learning the languages and architectures and stuff

# ? May 2, 2015 20:05

leftist heap: Feb 28, 2013; Fun Shoe

thanks for the update poik007

# ? May 2, 2015 20:07

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Malcolm XML posted:

lua and baking in job control?

lua is as lovely as elisp
lua is intrinsically, unavoidably single threaded
emacs already has job control, and it's not a replacement for multitasking or multithreading

# ? May 2, 2015 20:12

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

pointsofdata posted:

If you want to get stuff done, use a real ide

i prefer emacs to an ide. i'm used to it, it performs lots of functions an ide doesn't handle very well, and it does an ok job at ide-like tasks if you extend it with eclim and things of that nature

i get that some people will prefer an ide. that is a cool and good choice, too. it's just not my choice.

tl;dr: don't knock it until you've tried it

# ? May 2, 2015 20:14

Su-Su-Sudoko: Oct 25, 2007; what stands in the way becomes the way

been messing around with spacemacs today and it seems real good

# ? May 2, 2015 20:21

leftist heap: Feb 28, 2013; Fun Shoe

emacs is really good it's just a same that more languages don't have really high quality editor agnostic ide backends

# ? May 2, 2015 21:22

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

you need threading or multitasking on day one, you don't want to hack it in later

don't use a lovely language because you're going to live with it a long, long time

neovim re-made both mistakes immediately loool

good thing Weinreb and Greenberg learned the second lesson at least when they reimplemented emacs in Lisp

# ? May 2, 2015 21:36

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

Luigi Thirty posted:

i used it and now I compulsively want to eat my own foot fungus

GNU/Cordyceps

# ? May 2, 2015 21:37

qntm: Jun 17, 2009

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

don't use a lovely language because you're going to live with it a long, long time

every decision is permanent

# ? May 2, 2015 22:36

poik007: Aug 16, 2006; Thinks Mother 3 is the best game ever

rrrrrrrrrrrt posted:

thanks for the update poik007

i hate vi

# ? May 2, 2015 22:37

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

poik007 posted:

i hate vi

I'm sure the feeling is mutual, vi is a hateful editor

# ? May 3, 2015 01:12

Jerry Bindle: May 16, 2003

i love text editors. i like emacs better than vim. but i like emacs with evil better than emacs alone. i'm trying another text editor tonight. i'd love to find a new text editor that really knocks my socks off. i'm worried that i've tried them all.

# ? May 3, 2015 01:46

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

Barnyard Protein posted:

i love text editors. i like emacs better than vim. but i like emacs with evil better than emacs alone. i'm trying another text editor tonight. i'd love to find a new text editor that really knocks my socks off. i'm worried that i've tried them all.

try hemlock running atop sbcl, or climacs running atop sbcl with mcclim

both try to be a lot more like zmacs on a lisp machine than gosmacs or gnu emacs ever has

# ? May 3, 2015 04:22

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# ? May 10, 2024 04:31

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

i didn't think climacs was still being developed, but one of the committers from the old repo appears to have done some preliminary work on a new version:

https://github.com/robert-strandh/Second-Climacs

# ? May 3, 2015 05:06

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > terrible programmers: my god, it's full of chars

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