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readingatwork posted:Is the issue really that kids are dumb/poorly taught though? Let's look at at question 1 of the test posted a bit further up: If you actually know what a species is, question 1 is not ambiguous at all.
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May 5, 2015 06:43
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readingatwork posted:Both A and D sound right to me. D is probably the answer they want but two animals sharing a unique characteristics IS evidence that they share a species in my mind unless I'm missing something obvious. It might be evidence that they share a genus, but not a species. Species is more specific than that (example: Crows and Ravens are both in the corvid genus, but they are different species). For that second question I feel like it's missing some kind of crucial context because yeah, I have no idea how you're supposed to guess that just from the graph provided. I feel like the years are probably meaningful, but without a location I don't know how you're supposed to infer anything from them (ex: Mt. St. Helens erupted in 1980, which might suggest A, but since that graph could be from anywhere, it might be totally irrelevant).
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May 5, 2015 07:44
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For one I'd just go with D but it's phrased in a manner that might educate someone stupid. It's not evidence. It's suggestive, but that isn't evidence. C less vaguely worded is the closest to a fact, insomuch as the *very* narrow statement "If it's in a pouch, it has well developed forelimbs for climbing in and out" is true of all of them. Beyond that they can be built fairly different though. For two I'd go with volcano because it's a large number of species that both died off quick and stayed gone for a large number of years, which suggests a massive impact fairly quickly with effects that persisted. Tornado is out, Flash flood is wildly unlikely, and I wouldn't expect locusts to kill *that* fast. Volcano would do it. But again that's just guess work because those are lovely lovely questions.
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May 5, 2015 08:06
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Veskit posted:Find me the craigslist add where GOOGLE THE COMPANY. As in Google itself posts a job opening within their company. Like the Google HR department posted the position. It's been a while now and who knows, maybe they've changed their approach, but I do know they were looking for general counsel attorneys using craigslist when they first opened their office in Austin.
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May 5, 2015 13:42
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slomomofo posted:It's been a while now and who knows, maybe they've changed their approach, but I do know they were looking for general counsel attorneys using craigslist when they first opened their office in Austin.
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May 5, 2015 14:47
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Google probably outsources recruitment to a company that spams job listings on dozens of websites. Its not loving rocket science.
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May 5, 2015 14:49
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Veskit posted:Is Irish joe an idiot or does he know what he's doing I can't tell. Both, but mostly the latter. 
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May 5, 2015 14:52
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Boogaleeboo posted:For two I'd go with volcano because it's a large number of species that both died off quick and stayed gone for a large number of years, which suggests a massive impact fairly quickly with effects that persisted. Tornado is out, Flash flood is wildly unlikely, and I wouldn't expect locusts to kill *that* fast. Volcano would do it. Do we even know that they died off quickly. It just gives the first high value as 'before 1980'. To me that could read as, we know the highpoint of species diversity was this number, and it was achieved at some point before 1980's but we really don't know when, which means we don't have any good information on how long the species decline, or really even if the 1980's data is the low point, only that from the 1980's point onwards that seems to of been a fairly constant rise. I mean Volcano, form the few facts given, does seem most likely and probably the expected answer, but locusts can gently caress poo poo up, as can a flash flood, which is particular bad or just not in a region prone to it. Which is most likely? gently caress you I need more information. I loving hate ambiguous questions like this on a test, even then, if it was a short answer question it would be okay as you could actually you know explain your thought process in your attempt to answer their lovely question.
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May 5, 2015 14:59
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http://usny.nysed.gov/docs/the-hare-and-the-pineapple.pdf I don't think the pineapple story or the questions are that bad. 8 is pretty debatable though.
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May 5, 2015 15:04
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that species population question is loving ridiculous and was either published incomplete or stuck in a test to deliberately inflate the difficulty of their lovely tests.
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May 5, 2015 15:05
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The pineapple thing seems like an overreaction to claims that standardized tests were racist because black people don't know what a regatta is. "What do you mean they don't know the term for a boat race? Fine, just make it about bunny rabbits or some poo poo."
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May 5, 2015 15:12
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That's actually an amusing story. Those dumbass kids just don't appreciate anti-humor.
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May 5, 2015 15:17
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The Cheshire Cat posted:It might be evidence that they share a genus, but not a species. Species is more specific than that (example: Crows and Ravens are both in the corvid genus, but they are different species).  DERP! Yeah your right. I is smart.TLG James posted:http://usny.nysed.gov/docs/the-hare-and-the-pineapple.pdf The answer is... the owl I think? Because he was right about pineapples not having sleeves? Hrm... Question 7 is kind of wonky too since technically the story doesn't say why the pineapple was eaten. It was probably annoyance, but on the other hand animals are dumb so maybe they were just hungry. Other than that, yeah it seems OK to me. It's just a weird story so you have to pay attention to understand what's happening. It's difficult (at least for a little kid), but not really unfair. comes along bort posted:That's actually an amusing story. Those dumbass kids just don't appreciate anti-humor.
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May 5, 2015 15:53
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Josh Lyman posted:That's gotta be a troll. What kind of lawyer who has to credentials to be in-house for a company as big as Google would look for jobs on Craigslist? Nope, it wasn't- linked directly to their HR page IIRC. Craigslist is just another marketing/advertising resource, not sure why y'all are getting your panties in a twist over it. Sure, there are trolls in the personals section, and flea-ridden mattresses in the for-sale parts, but that's definitely not the only use for the site. A hell of a lot of completely legit job placement firms use it, for example, because it's a cheap and easy way to get word out.
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May 5, 2015 16:25
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slomomofo posted:It's been a while now and who knows, maybe they've changed their approach, but I do know they were looking for general counsel attorneys using craigslist when they first opened their office in Austin. You said from mom and pop to google. Google doesn't do it through craigslist, nor do most refutable fortune 500 companies. Nobody from a Fortune 500 sends out loving corporate jobs through craigslist. The ones that do are bad bad companies. Also i SEVERELY DOUBT google did that. A recruiter sure, but Google itself no loving way. Show your work.
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May 5, 2015 17:09
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readingatwork posted:
Actually it seems like the Hare was the wisest one. He called out the fruit on it's poo poo. I want more backstory, like how did the pineapple even get into the starting position.
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May 5, 2015 17:09
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TLG James posted:Actually it seems like the Hare was the wisest one. He called out the fruit on it's poo poo. Plot holes you could drive a bushel of bananas through.
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May 5, 2015 18:08
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Anti humor requires the audience to already have outside knowledge of standard humor structure. Anti humor is funny because it subverts expectations. You think a bunch of kids have consumed enough media that they understand that kind of meta game? At this point we're still trying to get them to understand standard storytelling structure.
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May 5, 2015 18:43
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Xibanya posted:Anti humor requires the audience to already have outside knowledge of standard humor structure. Anti humor is funny because it subverts expectations. You think a bunch of kids have consumed enough media that they understand that kind of meta game? At this point we're still trying to get them to understand standard storytelling structure. They are also stressed out beyond belief and then getting these insane questions.
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May 5, 2015 18:44
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TLG James posted:http://usny.nysed.gov/docs/the-hare-and-the-pineapple.pdf This seems more like a personality test than anything that should be a metric of a person's scholastic aptitude.
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May 5, 2015 19:54
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What gets me is that the level of cultural sophistication required to handle the Pineapple questions correctly is even less attainable for kids with unstable home situations or parents who speak English as a second language themselves. I think I would've done fine with that test in 2nd grade or so, but I had access to corny 70s joke books and parents who were able and interested to discuss them with me. We've known for 20+ years now that tests with cultural biases result in poorer scores for kids with different backgrounds, it's disappointing to me that something like this is now the standard.
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May 5, 2015 21:13
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TLG James posted:Actually it seems like the Hare was the wisest one. He called out the fruit on it's poo poo. The hare is a moron that let himself get trolled into a pointless race with an inanimate object.
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May 5, 2015 21:42
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See the problem with the pineapple story is that it's not just a classical fable that's meant to be read straight - it's a PARODY of a classical fable and there's outside context necessary to understand that. A high schooler would probably get that, but a 3rd grader? Probably not. The issue is that it's presented as a straight reading comprehension test when you can't gleam the required information from a straight reading because of that context. To us it's just a funny surreal little story, but to a kid whose grades depend on it, it's some kind of kafkaesque nightmare where you're the only person who seems to think there's anything strange about the test you've been given and you're terrified to speak up about it. The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 01:59 on May 6, 2015 |
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May 6, 2015 00:46
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Do these tests affect grades, though? I thought they were purely an exercise in data gathering.
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May 6, 2015 00:51
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Irish Joe posted:Do these tests affect grades, though? I thought they were purely an exercise in data gathering. They affect the teachers pay and for some of them if you do not pass you do not graduate.
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May 6, 2015 00:54
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Irish Joe posted:Do these tests affect grades, though? I thought they were purely an exercise in data gathering. They also affect school funding. So if your kids do not meet expectations via scoring they receive less funding. No Child Left Behind.
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May 6, 2015 00:58
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Irish Joe posted:Do these tests affect grades, though? I thought they were purely an exercise in data gathering. Try http://www.google.com next time. http://www.bobbraunsledger.com/breaking-pearson-nj-spying-on-social-media-of-students-taking-parcc-tests/ Data is definitely being gathered... To suspend students. That might have an impact on GPA!
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May 6, 2015 01:03
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readingatwork posted:The hare is a moron that let himself get trolled into a pointless race with an inanimate object. The pineapple is Irish Joe, and the animals are everyone else assuming he's arguing in good faith.
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May 6, 2015 02:02
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Even if it doesn't affect their marks directly, there's still a ton of pressure on kids to do well on the tests from their teachers because of how it will affect them and the school, so it's a highly stressful situation and not really one where you want to be presenting surrealism as material for basic reading comprehension. Basic reading comprehension questions should be like "Who was the main character in that story?", not "Which character was the most wise?" If they want to use tests as a metric to judge overall literacy rates, that's fine, but don't link them to funding and pay incentives for teachers. Use them to identify students that need extra attention because they're struggling with the material. Negative reinforcement is a terrible tactic to use when it comes to education.
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May 6, 2015 02:05
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Unless I'm misunderstanding this type of test, you're not supposed to get everything correct. If you're able to answer all the questions, you are significantly above average in your age group.
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May 6, 2015 02:16
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ultramiraculous posted:The pineapple is Irish Joe, and the animals are everyone else assuming he's arguing in good faith.  The Cheshire Cat posted:If they want to use tests as a metric to judge overall literacy rates, that's fine, but don't link them to funding and pay incentives for teachers. Use them to identify students that need extra attention because they're struggling with the material. Negative reinforcement is a terrible tactic to use when it comes to education. I'm going to quote you on the subject in the future, well put!
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May 6, 2015 04:11
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Attributing funding to scores on standardized tests is really stupid. If anything a school that gets a lower score should get more funding in an attempt to afford better teaching programs or whatever. Of course this could be abused to hell and back by schools so how about just getting rid of it entirely? It's a lose lose situation.
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May 6, 2015 04:25
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littleorv posted:Attributing funding to scores on standardized tests is really stupid. If anything a school that gets a lower score should get more funding in an attempt to afford better teaching programs or whatever. Of course this could be abused to hell and back by schools so how about just getting rid of it entirely? It's a lose lose situation.
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May 6, 2015 04:50
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comedyblissoption posted:It's almost like it's just a way to give less money to schools with impoverished students. Which is exactly why I give people spouting ultraconservative rhetoric the benefit of the doubt. At first. Too often, their actual goals and philosophy sound exactly like a callous person trolling. "I give people Ayn Rand with trappings." - Anton LaVey, founder of the Church of Satan (to Kim Klein of the Washington Post, 1970) http://flavorwire.com/513748/guessing-game-anton-lavey-nietzsche-or-ayn-rand Solvent fucked around with this message at 05:55 on May 6, 2015 |
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May 6, 2015 05:48
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The Cheshire Cat posted:If they want to use tests as a metric to judge overall literacy rates, that's fine, but don't link them to funding and pay incentives for teachers. Use them to identify students that need extra attention because they're struggling with the material. Negative reinforcement is a terrible tactic to use when it comes to education. I'm sorry, but if teachers aren't identifying students who need extra attention because they're struggling with the material, then what the heck are they doing? A teacher is, after all, in a much better position to assess the needs of her students than a standardized test. Furthermore, why are we blaming the tests for teachers and schools putting pressure on kids to do well on them? It just seems like when you remove all the politics and emotional arguments from this issue, the problem isn't bad tests, but bad teachers.
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May 6, 2015 10:31
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Irish Joe posted:I'm sorry, but if teachers aren't identifying students who need extra attention because they're struggling with the material, then what the heck are they doing? A teacher is, after all, in a much better position to assess the needs of her students than a standardized test. Furthermore, why are we blaming the tests for teachers and schools putting pressure on kids to do well on them? We're blaming tests because teachers are paid jack and poo poo, and the system is directly designed in such a manner that results reflect on teacher pay. So yes, in an ideal world a teacher's only concern is to tend to the needs of his students, the fact is that the government imposed a system that forces the teacher to pressure his students so he can stay above the poverty line.
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May 6, 2015 10:46
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Demiurge4 posted:We're blaming tests because teachers are paid jack and poo poo, and the system is directly designed in such a manner that results reflect on teacher pay. So yes, in an ideal world a teacher's only concern is to tend to the needs of his students, the fact is that the government imposed a system that forces the teacher to pressure his students so he can stay above the poverty line. Clearly, money is a powerful motivator. No Child Left Behind was introduced and passed to address the problem of declining literacy and math proficiency in our school. The government believes that, by tying federal money to performance, it would motivate schools and teachers to invest in their student's performance. As you pointed out, it worked, insofar as it motivated teachers to push their students towards higher academic achievement. The problem is that academic achievement is measured by tests which some believe is suspect. The question, then, is how do you ensure that the test is the right standard of academic achievement for students? The answer boils back down to states and school districts holding the test makers accountable through the choice to use or not use their product, which was my original point three pages ago.
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May 6, 2015 11:20
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The Cheshire Cat posted:
Sorry to get away from the Argue Futilely With Irish Joe's Trolling Thread, but the second question would be A, volcano, because flash floods, tornados and insect migrations are all likely repeating events for any given location. You wouldn't see a multi-decade drop and slow linear recovery from a single point in time. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 17:54 on May 6, 2015 |
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May 6, 2015 11:35
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Irish Joe posted:The answer boils back down to states and school districts holding the test makers accountable through the choice to use or not use their product, which was my original point three pages ago. I'd be interested to know what other options these schools have. And if Pearson actually represents the best on the market right now. I assume anyone offering tests have to be licensed. If there's only one option and everyone else is worse there's not much a school can do to pressure their provider, because they are legally required to buy them.
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May 6, 2015 11:39
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You could, theoretically, open it to the same bidding process as all other govt contracts
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May 6, 2015 13:11
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