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think this means we're gonna see a unity government, there's no way King Bibi is gonna be happy with a 1-seat majority. Although Lieberman is almost certainly playing to the gallery, news came out over the weekend of Hamas and Israel close to agreeing on a hudna that might actually give Gaza a break for a change. http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.654429 quote:The goal is to extract a commitment to a humanitarian cease-fire from Hamas, perhaps accompanied by third-party guarantees. Hamas would promise to refrain from any hostilities against Israel for a given period, possibly three to five years. In exchange, Israel would significantly ease its partial blockade on Gaza and take other steps to help Gaza’s economy. Later – though this seems unlikely – Israel might even reconsider ideas it has rejected in the past, like letting a seaport be built in Gaza under external supervision. Don't think Lieberman would flip tables over this though - either he thinks the coalition is already doomed and wants to get in on the ground floor of being Mr. Right Wing, or Bibi didn't promise to nuke his party's corruption trials from orbit. Lum_ fucked around with this message at 19:21 on May 4, 2015 |
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May 4, 2015 19:17
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Are new settlements that serious of a controversial issue within the Israeli government? I thought even the left wing Israelis were okay with it.
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May 4, 2015 19:33
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Lieberman bowing out seems to have given Bibi the leeway he needed to finish up coalition talks. Earlier today, only Shas and Jewish Home were holding out. Now, Shas has signed:quote:PM @netanyahu caves in to Shas, gives @ariyederi a 3rd ministry. He'll be Economy, Religious Affairs & Negev & Galilee Development Minister. And Bennett has been sent an "unprecedented offer": quote:Liked says they offered Bennett Education, Diaspora and Security Cabinet membership + Agriculture + Culture & Sport incl lottery (toto), Deputy Defense Minister in charge of Judea and Samaria, Knesset Constitution C'tee, increased Education budget All signs point to Likud keeping the Foreign Ministry for themselves. SNAKES N CAKES fucked around with this message at 19:52 on May 4, 2015 |
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May 4, 2015 19:47
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Job Truniht posted:Are new settlements that serious of a controversial issue within the Israeli government? I thought even the left wing Israelis were okay with it. Left-wing Israelis are most definitely not OK with new settlements, and all five of them agree it's a bad idea when they get together at the bar.
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May 4, 2015 20:14
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Lum_ posted:think this means we're gonna see a unity government, there's no way King Bibi is gonna be happy with a 1-seat majority. Shelly is already blasting Tzipi over the probable unity government. Evette is backpedaling like a champ, claiming that his accomplishments in legislating a smaller, more secular government ("we were fighting the bureaucracy for our constituents!") being overturned is the main issue here.
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May 4, 2015 20:20
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Lieberman is as charmingly a dumb racist as ever. http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel/.premium-1.654978 quote:"The coalition will have to make deals with MKs from the Arab List before each vote, or they won't pass any legislation" yes, that's exactly what's going to happen.
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May 4, 2015 21:58
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http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/protective-edge http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/protective-edge My favorite israeli NGO released a bunch of damning testimony from veterans of last year's bomb gaza extravaganza. Pro clicks. stealth edit: gently caress lieberman.
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May 4, 2015 23:49
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Job Truniht posted:Are new settlements that serious of a controversial issue within the Israeli government? I thought even the left wing Israelis were okay with it. Lum_ posted:Left-wing Israelis are most definitely not OK with new settlements, and all five of them agree it's a bad idea when they get together at the bar.  Semi-seriously, the Meretz party not only opposes new settlements, but also supports paying Israeli Meretz posted:Any solution must be based on two states for two nations with a border based on pre-1967 lines with agreed-upon land swaps, and include an end to the conflict through a regional solution based on the Arab Peace Plan, the Meretz platform states. 
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May 5, 2015 00:26
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Meretz is the party 90% of the posters here would vote for, and the party 4% of Israelis voted for. It's actually a minor miracle they made it into the Knesset (and their platform near the end was "please don't let us die" )
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May 5, 2015 02:10
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Quote of the Night: "Israel must eliminate racism" - PM Netanyahu
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May 5, 2015 03:10
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Israel must eliminate racism* *between Jews, Arabs and other races are still inferior according to our laws. Ah, the bizarre poo poo that apartheid states get up to.
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May 5, 2015 09:37
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I dunno the latest news about freezing settlements, and negotiating truce with hamas to ease the siege on gaza look positive, at least, maybe give him the benefit of doubt 
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May 5, 2015 11:58
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Looks like Netanyahu's chickens are coming home to roost: now Jewish Home is threatening to bolt. If they do, no government (unless somehow Labor comes on board at the 11th hour). http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/Bayit-Yehudi-demands-Justice-portfolio-ahead-of-coalition-deadline-402180 quote:Bayit Yehudi leader Naftali Bennett demanded Tuesday evening as a condition to join the next coalition that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu appoint MK Ayelet Shaked as the next justice minister. The best part: according to this story on Arutz-7 (which leans heavily pro-Bayit Yehudi) Bennett REALLY wanted Netanyahu to freak out. quote:Likud tried throughout the day on Tuesday to contact Bennett after the minister went "under the radar" and switched his cell phone to airplane mode. Amazingly, when you piss off everyone you deal with, they find ways to get you back. Lum_ fucked around with this message at 19:16 on May 5, 2015 |
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May 5, 2015 19:11
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Lum_ posted:Looks like Netanyahu's chickens are coming home to roost: now Jewish Home is threatening to bolt. If they do, no government (unless somehow Labor comes on board at the 11th hour). Isn't Ayelet Shaked an insane racist?
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May 5, 2015 19:18
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Pushing for an attractive female Justice minister with two Haredi parties in the coalition makes it seem like Bennett is also looking for a graceful exit from government.
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May 5, 2015 19:29
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Badger of Basra posted:Isn't Ayelet Shaked an insane racist? no more so than anyone else in Jewish Home yes http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/07/israeli-politician-declares-war-on-the-palestinian-people.html “They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there.”
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May 5, 2015 19:51
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SNAKES N CAKES posted:Pushing for an attractive female Justice minister with two Haredi parties in the coalition makes it seem like Bennett is also looking for a graceful exit from government. It's OK, the Haredi papers will just Photoshop her out.
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May 5, 2015 19:58
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Lum_ posted:It's OK, the Haredi papers will just Photoshop her out. What Israel needs is a government made entirely and exclusively of secular atheist Arab women.
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May 5, 2015 21:50
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Hanin Zoabi as PM would definitely make a good many Israelis dissolve into component atoms from shock, yes. http://mondoweiss.net/2015/04/haneen-answers-theodore Lum_ fucked around with this message at 22:21 on May 5, 2015 |
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May 5, 2015 22:19
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Watching Bibi witness his own administration crumbling a mere month after usurping the vote is a wonderful sight to behold.  I wonder if he'll be ousted before the next elections...
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May 5, 2015 23:17
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If Netanyhau's election victory turns to ashes because of his angry former allies stabbing him the back it really will be the greatest loving thing. Even if he brings Bennett on board (which I suspect will require him to totally cave to Bennett's demands), I can't see the resulting government lasting more than half a year before it collapsees. New Division fucked around with this message at 23:46 on May 5, 2015 |
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May 5, 2015 23:43
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New Division posted:If Netanyhau's election victory turns to ashes because of his angry former allies stabbing him the back it really will be the greatest loving thing. All it will take is one vote that Shas disagrees with. And it's pretty much on the record that Aryeh Deri can be bought.
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May 6, 2015 01:09
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Man I thought the U.S. Politics and Freeper threads were depressing. I wanted to make sure I knew who you were talking about so I googled "Ayelet Shaked" and up pops a news story that says Bibi caved and she is going to be appointed Justice Minister and other stories about the Left in Israel freaking out over it. Then I googled "Haredi" and this story came up. So can the rest of the world drop the pretense and call Israel a theocracy; can the Wikipedia page on Theocracy be changed to include Israel now?
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May 6, 2015 01:14
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Yeah, when Netanyahu and his US allies keep going on about Israel being recognized as a Jewish state, what did you think he meant?
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May 6, 2015 01:45
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An ethno-nationalist state, like how the Palestinian Authority is defined? That's why it's disgraceful and should not be allowed. Also, as anti-Arab and anti-immigrant as Likud is, Bibi doesn't actually hold any principles beyond holding on to power, and many of his supporters do only care about Jewishness and can very much be against racism towards Ethiopian Jews while supporting it against Arabs and non-Jewish refugees.
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May 6, 2015 01:52
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radical meme posted:Man I thought the U.S. Politics and Freeper threads were depressing. I wanted to make sure I knew who you were talking about so I googled "Ayelet Shaked" and up pops a news story that says Bibi caved and she is going to be appointed Justice Minister and other stories about the Left in Israel freaking out over it. Then I googled "Haredi" and this story came up. So can the rest of the world drop the pretense and call Israel a theocracy; can the Wikipedia page on Theocracy be changed to include Israel now? Israel isn't a theocracy. The state is actively involved in religious affairs and actively privileges a specific religion, and religious-focused parties have disproportionate influence, but none of that is sufficient to be called a "theocracy".
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May 6, 2015 03:02
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radical meme posted:Man I thought the U.S. Politics and Freeper threads were depressing. I wanted to make sure I knew who you were talking about so I googled "Ayelet Shaked" and up pops a news story that says Bibi caved and she is going to be appointed Justice Minister and other stories about the Left in Israel freaking out over it. Then I googled "Haredi" and this story came up. So can the rest of the world drop the pretense and call Israel a theocracy; can the Wikipedia page on Theocracy be changed to include Israel now? England is an Anglican state; does that make England a theocracy? Hell, if Israel is a theocracy, what do you call all its neighbors? Fascist theocracies?
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May 6, 2015 03:06
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My Imaginary GF posted:England is an Anglican state; does that make England a theocracy? C'mon, man, it's like you're not even trying. When you're good you're good, and you've caught me innumerable times; don't get lazy.
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May 6, 2015 03:46
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I wish someone would bulldoze ayelet shaked's loving house and see how she felt about it.
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May 6, 2015 04:56
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My Imaginary GF posted:England is an Anglican state; does that make England a theocracy? In practice the most theocratic problem an Israeli would have is probably difficulty getting a divorce, which is kind of the whole reason the Church of England exists, so no.
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May 6, 2015 10:44
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Israel is very much a country ruled by members of a specific religion, but that doesn't qualify it as a theocracy. The Jewish State refers to the Jewish ethnicity and not the religion, but, well, most Jews happen to be Jews. Israel is an ethnocracy, and that should surprise absolutely no one.
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May 6, 2015 11:14
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Ultramega posted:http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/protective-edge So apparently no one clicked these? Site doesn't work right on my phone, so I was hoping someone else would go pick out the worst of the worst and post them here. Oh well, I can at least start it off with one of the few I can access. quote:But after 48 hours during which no one shoots at you and they’re like ghosts, unseen, their presence unfelt – except once in a while the sound of one shot fired over the course of an entire day – you come to realize the situation is under control. And that’s when my difficulty there started, because the formal rules of engagement – I don’t know if for all soldiers – were, “Anything still there is as good as dead. Anything you see moving in the neighborhoods you’re in is not supposed to be there. The [Palestinian] civilians know they are not supposed to be there. Therefore whoever you see there, you kill.”
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May 6, 2015 14:54
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Main Paineframe posted:So apparently no one clicked these? Site doesn't work right on my phone, so I was hoping someone else would go pick out the worst of the worst and post them here. Oh well, I can at least start it off with one of the few I can access. I skimmed some of it this morning but didn't feel up for any close reading; I like my mornings to start on a positive note. That is one indiscriminate bastard of an RoE from where I'm sitting, but without knowing much about military procedure I can't tell whether or not it's relatively normal or Waffen-SS tier stuff. Someone clued into that poo poo will have to comment on it.
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May 6, 2015 18:57
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It's not Waffen-SS tier. Civilians were not sought out specifically to be annihilated as a form of terror (as a Likudnik whose name escapes me said at the time of the war, "Look, if we wanted to kill millions of Gazans tomorrow, we could, but we haven't, so clearly we are moral!"). It is however a shocking lack of care for civilians caught in a war zone which veers many times over the line of war crimes - indiscriminate artillery and tank fire, long-rage sniping of civilians who clearly were no threat, etc. Not only was the area of ground force incursion treated, from the highest of levels, as a free-fire zone, troops were actively encouraged to expend all their ammunition as a sign of activity. This resulted in tanks firing randomly into apartment blocks, for example. Note that Gaza is one of the most densely populated places on earth. The IDF's excuse to its own troops was that since civilians were told to leave via leaflet drops, there were no civilians in the area of engagement, and thus everyone in the area was an enemy combatant. The Geneva Conventions beg to differ. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention On a positive note, Breaking the Silence also documents instances where individual IDF soldiers/officers decided on their own that their orders were criminal/immoral (something IDF soldiers are trained to do) and in those instances imposed their own rules of engagement. Lum_ fucked around with this message at 20:25 on May 6, 2015 |
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May 6, 2015 20:23
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Turns out the whole story about dropping pamphlets to warn civilians of an attack is useful as more than just propaganda -- you can make the nice argument that anyone who didn't leave after they were dropped is obviously an enemy combatant who can be shot on sight, regardless of the circumstances.
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May 6, 2015 21:58
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Bibi formed his coalition just in the nick of time, but basically had to give Bennett his demands http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/07/world/middleeast/netanyahu-israel-coalition-government.html Guess a bad deal is better than no deal when it's your career on the line!
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May 6, 2015 22:59
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Lum_ posted:It's not Waffen-SS tier. Civilians were not sought out specifically to be annihilated as a form of terror (as a Likudnik whose name escapes me said at the time of the war, "Look, if we wanted to kill millions of Gazans tomorrow, we could, but we haven't, so clearly we are moral!"). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_%28group%29 quote:Lehi split from the Irgun militant group in 1940 in order to continue fighting the British during World War II. Lehi initially sought an alliance with Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, offering to fight alongside them against the British in return for the transfer of all Jews from Nazi-occupied Europe to Palestine.[2] Believing that Nazi Germany was a lesser enemy of the Jews than Britain, Lehi twice attempted to form an alliance with the Nazis.[2] During World War II it declared that it would establish a Jewish state based upon "nationalist and totalitarian principles".[2][17] After Stern's death in 1942, the new leadership of Lehi began to move it towards support for Joseph Stalin's Soviet Union.[1] In 1944 Lehi officially declared its support for National Bolshevism.[6] It said that its National Bolshevism involved an amalgamation of left-wing and right-wing political elements – Stern said Lehi incorporated elements of both the left and the right[2] – however this change was unpopular and Lehi began to lose support as a result.[18] OK, so Israel is only inspired by the Waffen-SS. Glad to hear it
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May 6, 2015 23:42
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icantfindaname posted:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_%28group%29 We're talking about what the IDF actually did last year, not what a paramilitary terror group did 70 years ago.
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May 7, 2015 00:22
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New Division posted:Guess a bad deal is better than no deal when it's your career on the line! What this REALLY breaks the ground for is bringing Labor into the government as a fig-leaf foreign minister a la Barak, which is what Netanyahu wanted to do all along. Best proof of this: if Netanyahu keeps the Foreign MInister portfolio for himself. No one to piss off in a month that way.
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May 7, 2015 00:24
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I wonder if Herzog would take that offer. Frankly, if this government hobbles along ineffectively for a few months and collapses, Netanyahu would probably be fatally weakened. Herzog might be better off waiting for new elections at some point in the near future. Though I suppose Herzog might feel he has to take the offer if he felt it was for the good of the country.
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May 7, 2015 01:21
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