UKMT May 2015: The Ed Wedding

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT May 2015: The Ed Wedding

How are you going to vote on May 7th? This poll is closed.
Conservative	72	6.22%
Labour	410	35.41%
Liberal Democrat	46	3.97%
UKIP	69	5.96%
Green	199	17.18%
SNP	121	10.45%
DUP	0	0%
Sinn Fein	35	3.02%
Plaid Cymru	20	1.73%
Respect	3	0.26%
Monster Raving Loony	56	4.84%
BNP	23	1.99%
Some flavour of socialist party	37	3.20%
Some flavour of communist party	27	2.33%
Independent	3	0.26%
Other	37	3.20%
Total:	1158 votes

[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

sebzilla: Mar 17, 2009; Kid's blasting everything in sight with that new-fangled musket.

Tom Watson for leader please, just so he can hurl more abuse at Gove and talk about the cool video games he's been playing lately.

# ? May 10, 2015 11:00

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# ? Jun 9, 2024 23:23

ukle: Nov 28, 2005

Metrication posted:

If Labour fail to pick Dan Jarvis as leader they are idiots. Decorated military veteran who is well outside the Westminster club.

Which is why they wont pick him as they are idiots, e.g. they chose Ed. Dan Jarvis is possibly the only way Labour are going to win the next election as he is about as perfect PM as you could get, and given the next election will have Boris at the helm of the Tories they will need someone powerful to cope.

# ? May 10, 2015 11:01

Lord Twisted: Apr 3, 2010; In the Emperor's name, let none survive.

Zephro posted:

On the Bastards front:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...l-Tory-MPs.html

Yeah good luck with getting Merkel to agree to that guys. Which is of course the point. Demand the impossible!

This kind of thing annoys me simply because of how fundamentally retarded it is.

The EU has the principle of Supremacy. This is now enshrined in the Lisbon Treaty.

EU law supercedes national law. From the lowliest bit of secondary legislation to the Treaties themselves. This is just a FACT. Membership requires acknowledgement of this principle.

Passing this law would mean NOTHING. They would be better off campaigning straight up to leave instead of this disingenuous bullshit designed to look tough

# ? May 10, 2015 11:03

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

Hijo Del Helmsley posted:

I stand by my pick of Lab leader as Dennis Skinner Full of Special Brew with a Length of Lead Pipe.

Need to find a way to make him 30 years younger

ukle posted:

Which is why they wont pick him as they are idiots, e.g. they chose Ed. Dan Jarvis is possibly the only way Labour are going to win the next election as he is about as perfect PM as you could get, and given the next election will have Boris at the helm of the Tories they will need someone powerful to cope.

Its going to be osborne

# ? May 10, 2015 11:12

The Supreme Court: Feb 25, 2010; Pirate World: Nearly done!

Jim Murphy was told by the Scottish Executive Committee of Labour to resign before his awful speech on Friday, and they'll be tabling a motion of no confidence by the end of the week if he's still there.

sebzilla posted:

Tom Watson for leader please, just so he can hurl more abuse at Gove and talk about the cool video games he's been playing lately.

And crush the Murdoch press.

# ? May 10, 2015 11:13

Renaissance Robot: Oct 10, 2010; Bite my furry metal ass

Mr. Gibbycrumbles posted:

He's Tony Blair as played by Will Smith.

Yeah, this was my impression. Not a lost tory so much as a power hungry neoliberal with no morals who will say and believe anything to get to the top.

# ? May 10, 2015 11:15

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

ukle posted:

Which is why they wont pick him as they are idiots, e.g. they chose Ed. Dan Jarvis is possibly the only way Labour are going to win the next election as he is about as perfect PM as you could get, and given the next election will have Boris at the helm of the Tories they will need someone powerful to cope.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDUQXvdZABo

He's a very, very flat speaker.

# ? May 10, 2015 11:17

ukle: Nov 28, 2005

LemonDrizzle posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDUQXvdZABo

He's a very, very flat speaker.

Hes being a better speaker than Ed in that video

Jose posted:

Its going to be osborne

True, the Tories are also idiots when it comes to electing Leaders since Major, Cameron is the only exception.

# ? May 10, 2015 11:19

suck my woke dick: Oct 10, 2012; I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

Phoon posted:

My feeling is that they are biased towards the centre which I know sounds bizarre. They are so committed to showing both sides of a story that they will give undue weight to the side with less factual evidence - the best example of this would be climate change, where they were eventually forced (by the BBC trust I think?) to change their reporting as they were giving equal time and weight to anti-climate change (businessmen and think tank reps usually) - but it is potentially one of the reasons why austerity is still so strongly believed in here whilst being rejected in mainstream economics. When they do have an independent expert they will often follow that with an obviously biased commentator like a banker or a think tank employee

Their commitment to non-bias means they generally don't set the news agenda, but wait for what the papers are reporting or the political parties are pushing or whatever the latest think tank* has released - the only exception to this is when a new panorama comes out that has discovered something shocking.

*I am certain that think tanks in this country are specifically designed to set the news agenda (with a focus on the BBC) and obfuscate the source of news - we would be much better served by the bbc if think tanks were ignored entirely, or if they were introduced with a brief description of who funds them. The way they present think tank reports as if they were equivalent to peer reviewed papers is alarming - in fact they almost never report on academic papers, but I suppose that's because nobody is e-mailing them to the BBC

Yes. Whenever there is the slightest hint of disagreement over an issue, BBC news breaks down to "on one hand... but on the other hand" verbal diarrhea with the same level of critical evaluation as dumbass high school essays.

Renaissance Robot posted:

Yeah, this was my impression. Not a lost tory so much as a power hungry neoliberal with no morals who will say and believe anything to get to the top.

so in other words the perfect politician

# ? May 10, 2015 11:22

Jippa: Feb 13, 2009

Yep it looks like we are going right back to the third way.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/may/10/election-aftermath-live-nicola-sturgeon-and-chuka-umunna-on-the-andrew-marr-show

# ? May 10, 2015 11:24

twoot: Oct 29, 2012

LemonDrizzle posted:

He's definitely got a good background in that he's not a political lifer (and being a former para means it'd be harder to paint him as a weak man), but from what little I've seen of him he's not a great public speaker.

They somehow managed to make Milliband into something half way presentable, I think they can manage with an attractive ex-para with no speech impediment.

also it's Scottish Labour schadenfreude time

Scottish Labour: Inside the campaign from hell

quote:

IT was heartbreak for Ed Miliband and his team on Friday morning, but for Scottish Labour leader Jim Murphy it was more like a nightmare.

Although Miliband failed to topple David Cameron, Murphy had presided over his party's worst election result since 1918.

Scottish Labour, the country's dominant political force for more than half a century, had lost 39 of its 40 seats to the SNP, including in Murphy's East Renfrewshire constituency. Some of Murphy's supporters were quick to absolve him of blame for the terrible state of his party.

Since 1999, they said Scottish Labour had failed to adapt to devolution, elected a succession of bad leaders, selected dud candidates, produced shoddy manifestos and watched as the party's MPs treated MSPs like second-class citizens.

The lessons from Labour's defeats at the hands of the SNP at the last two Holyrood elections were also ignored and the referendum, which saw the party haemorrhage votes to the SNP, accelerated the decline.

However, other party insiders - candidates, elected representatives and activists - say the new leader made the toxic legacy he inherited worse, not better. "He snatched catastrophe from the jaws of defeat," said one.

Murphy, who has never been on the intellectual wing of his party, has always been regarded internally as a talented self-publicist who was adept at advancing his own interests.

One colleague, explaining Murphy's approach to the media, said: "He once told me he was not bothered about the words in newspapers, just the pictures, and how he looked on TV."

During the campaign, some of Murphy's supporters were taken aback by his obsession with how he looked in the tabloids: how big the photograph was; and whether he came across better than Nicola Sturgeon. He was said to have been driven mad by the exposure given to Sturgeon - particularly after the first leaders' debate involving Miliband and David Cameron - and was grumpy when a daft photo of him emerged in the media.

One senior party figure said he didn't know if Murphy was campaigning for office, or for "the front page of Vogue". Members of Murphy's team admired his energy, but were bemused by his vanity. They were irked by his bad habit of pulling stupid faces in photo-shoots and grew weary of his incessant football references. He stopped dying his hair, but only reluctantly. The flip-flop campaign strategy was believed to be another reflection of Murphy's shallowness.

During last year's leadership contest - where he succeeded Johann Lamont by seeing off MSPs Sarah Boyack and Neil Findlay - Murphy had struck a predictable New Labour pose, backing a fairer distribution of a bigger tax base and calling for a partnership between workers and businesses.

After the leadership contest, he ditched his Blairite clothes and reinvented himself as a small-N nationalist who was committed to reaching Yes voters. His party's constitution was changed to include the word "patriotism", he flattered 190,000 Labour-friendly Yessers by describing them as the "most important" voters in the UK, and "Yes for Labour" was devised as the campaign slogan.

However, doubts soon crept in about the wisdom of the strategy. Feedback revealed that people did not like to be pigeon-holed as Yes or No voters; more damagingly, those who had backed independence did not like Murphy.

Labour sources at Holyrood were also astonished at Murphy becoming the poster boy for autonomy for the Scottish party: as Secretary of State for Scotland in Gordon Brown's government, he was said to have interfered in ex-leader Iain Gray's speeches and tried to change the content. And when the party's interim devolution commission produced a blueprint of more powers for the Scottish Parliament, Murphy was dead against giving Holyrood control of income tax. "He was the MPs' champion," said one insider.

As the polls showed the SNP lead increasing rather than narrowing, Murphy replaced Yes for Labour with the sort of left-wing campaign he had derided for most of his political life. He backed tax rises on the wealthy, became a champion of the "working class" and campaigned outside a business that used zero-hours contracts. It was as if Findlay had won in December.

One ally said: "He was even less convincing as a left-winger than a Nat." In a final U-turn, the last days of the campaign were marked by an attack on a second referendum, an approach some colleagues felt should have been adopted from the start. In four months, he had gone from Nat-lite to full-fat Unionist.

A Labour insider said Murphy's strategy did not lack effort, just credibility. "He never sees anything through. Some folk just see him as insincere."

Murphy's handpicked team - effectively a Better Together reunion - also attracted criticism. Many of the faces who worked on the pro-UK body, which was described as a "pop-up political campaign" for Murphy, eased seamlessly into their new roles.

However, like many sequels, Better Together 2 was a pale imitation of the original. Murphy's key lieutenants - chief of staff John McTernan and strategy head Blair McDougall - were an awkward fit, while a source said three words commonly associated with McDougall were: "Where is he?"

Meanwhile, McTernan appeared to revel in his status as Murphy's top dog. Under Johann Lamont, the then general secretary Ian Price had occupied the sole private office in the party's Bath Street headquarters. With Murphy in charge, McTernan got the office, while new general secretary Brian Roy used a desk in the open-plan area.

McTernan was also unpopular among some colleagues at Holyrood and acquired a reputation for making bold statements that were rarely borne out by reality. It was said he claimed that Sturgeon would struggle in the first UK leaders' debate, and announced that an event by Gordon Brown in Margaret Curran's constituency would have a big effect on the campaign. In the end, Sturgeon shone in London and the Brown press conference sank without trace. One source said McTernan had two modes: nice guy or wannabe Malcolm Tucker.

As the polls refused to budge, other grievances developed. Deputy leader Kezia Dugdale was said to have been under-used, as was senior MSP James Kelly, and Murphy's shadow cabinet was deemed to be a paper-body subordinate to his well-paid helpers.

Against a backdrop of political extinction, senior figures still managed to find time to indulge in petty backbiting. Jenny Marra, who had been co-chair of Murphy's leadership campaign team, employed ex-Lamont spin doctor Craig Davidson to help in her office.

One insider said the bad mouthing of Marra for a routine hiring decision, by people who should have been campaigning, showed Labour's malaise: "It was symbolic of Scottish Labour - a pathetic bitching row about personality, not policy or strategy."

Labour also suffered from tension between candidates in the scramble for scarce election cash. In most campaigns, Scottish political parties prioritise a handful of constituencies; this time, Labour was faced with protecting all of its seats.

Roy, to his credit, produced an incentives-based plan that rewarded effort with resources. If a Constituency Labour Party (CLP) met voter contact rates, extra leaflets would follow.

According to documents seen by this newspaper, the Roy plan flushed out the grafters from the slackers. In early February, East Lothian CLP had made 1,547 voter contacts. Other CLPs were in single digits.

Some seats naturally fell off the radar at Labour headquarters, but in the latter stages of the campaign insiders believed favouritism trumped effort as resources were diverted to the established "sons and daughters" - code for Jim Murphy, Douglas Alexander and Margaret Curran, the latter of whom was believed to be an undeserving resource-hogger.

On election night, party insiders hoped to save half a dozen MPs, but when the boxes opened the list was whittled down to Murphy and Edinburgh South candidate Ian Murray. As the votes were counted, Murphy fell off the list and Murray became the last man standing. "It went from Get Out The Vote, to get out the revolver," one source said.

Scottish Labour now faces a bout of internal soul-searching about its purpose and survival. According to several candidates, a recurring theme on the doorsteps was discovering little sympathy for the party among the 20-40 age group.

Female voters, a key demographic for Labour and the No campaign, have also migrated to the SNP, particularly since Sturgeon took over. And, in the call centre used by the party, it was said to be striking how many people hung up after they heard the staff were working on behalf of Scottish Labour.

One candidate said he feared Scottish Labour was becoming like the Tories north of the Border: a tribe backed by a dwindling, ageing core vote, marked by loyalty rather than enthusiasm.

The leadership is expected to back the sweeping internal changes, but a key question will be whether Murphy remaining as leader is a barrier to progress. The former MP was said to be a vote-loser on the doorsteps and that a big chunk of the electorate, for whatever reason, refuses to give him a hearing.

Even Murphy's allies concede that his efforts in Better Together make it hard for him to become the Labour figure who will bring angry Yes voters back into the fold.

As Murphy examines the wreckage of a party that had dominated politics for decades, a party member summed up his plight by comparing him to a former Rangers manager who departed quickly after finding it hard to make connections with the Ibrox club's players or fans.

"In Labour circles, he is known as the party's Paul Le Guen," he said. "He has big ideas, and a big reputation, but it turns out he doesn't understand Scottish politics and can't get anyone to play for him."

# ? May 10, 2015 11:25

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Anyone ever think to ask these shy tory fellows why they think they need to be shy?

As in "could you provide any specifics on why your friends will call you a shithead if they knew you were a tory?"

# ? May 10, 2015 11:25

NRVNQSR: Mar 1, 2009

FAUXTON posted:

Anyone ever think to ask these shy tory fellows why they think they need to be shy?

As in "could you provide any specifics on why your friends will call you a shithead if they knew you were a tory?"

People have tried, but for some reason they don't answer.

# ? May 10, 2015 11:32

return0: Apr 11, 2007

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/may/10/election-aftermath-live-nicola-sturgeon-and-chuka-umunna-on-the-andrew-marr-show posted:

"Tristram Hunt says Labour needs to appeal more to "John Lewis" voters".

This guy sounds like a right Tristram Hunt.

# ? May 10, 2015 11:34

freebooter: Jul 7, 2009

2/1 odds that if Chukka Umana is the next leader, during the next election campaign the Sun will use the phrase "SPEAR-CHUKKA"

# ? May 10, 2015 11:35

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

twoot posted:

also it's Scottish Labour schadenfreude time

Scottish Labour: Inside the campaign from hell

UKMT May 2015: From Get Out The Vote, To Get Out The Revolver.

# ? May 10, 2015 11:38

Phoon: Apr 23, 2010

Tom Watson is going to be deputy leader probably, so he can still attack murdoch from there

# ? May 10, 2015 11:39

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

NRVNQSR posted:

People have tried, but for some reason they don't answer.

I guess they're tactful enough to know "Oswald Mosley gets such a bad reputation these days" will be taken poorly.

# ? May 10, 2015 11:43

suck my woke dick: Oct 10, 2012; I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

dispatch_async posted:

UKMT May 2015: From Get Out The Vote, To Get Out The Revolver.

true for everyone except the tories

# ? May 10, 2015 11:44

Lt. Danger: Dec 22, 2006; jolly good chaps we sure showed the hun

FAUXTON posted:

Anyone ever think to ask these shy tory fellows why they think they need to be shy?

As in "could you provide any specifics on why your friends will call you a shithead if they knew you were a tory?"

Tory is a tory
Friends explain why tory policies are incorrect using facts
Tory doesn't listen because the facts are inconvenient
Friends call tory a shithead
Tory cries about it itt

# ? May 10, 2015 11:47

Bozza: Mar 5, 2004; "I'm a really useful engine!"

Lets move onto important matters: Glasgow Goon Meet - 6th June?

# ? May 10, 2015 11:54

Zephro: Nov 23, 2000; I suppose I could part with one and still be feared...

Lord Twisted posted:

Passing this law would mean NOTHING. They would be better off campaigning straight up to leave instead of this disingenuous bullshit designed to look tough

They wouldn't, though. Campaigning to leave straight up is less politically feasible than making impossible demands and then turning round and saying "welp, we told you we couldn't reason with these Brussels bureaucrats :argh:

Zephro fucked around with this message at 12:02 on May 10, 2015

# ? May 10, 2015 11:59

NRVNQSR: Mar 1, 2009

But seriously, the left in this country have a history of being much more aggressive than the right. The right will calmly and politely explain why the government doesn't really need to give money to the poor, and the left will respond with "yes it bloody well does you child-loving scum!". It's easy to see how people who don't like confrontation would be driven away by the latter, and also easy to see that they wouldn't be inclined to talk about their politics.

# ? May 10, 2015 11:59

Pistol_Pete: Sep 15, 2007; Oven Wrangler

Zephro posted:

I think we should wait and see how united the Tories will actually be. There are a lot of loonies on the back benches and now they have power. It could be John Major 2: Bastards Harder for the next five years.

I'm pretty sure it'll be exactly this.

# ? May 10, 2015 11:59

NRVNQSR: Mar 1, 2009

Zephro posted:

They wouldn't, though. Campaigning to leave straight up is less politically feasible than making impossible demands and then turning round and saying "welp, we told you we couldn't reason with these Brussels bureaucrats".

Yeah, their intention is to set the goalposts for renegotiation in an impossible place. Then when it doesn't happen they can say at the referendum "renegotiation has failed, we need to get out".

# ? May 10, 2015 12:01

pisshead: Oct 24, 2007

FAUXTON posted:

Anyone ever think to ask these shy tory fellows why they think they need to be shy?

As in "could you provide any specifics on why your friends will call you a shithead if they knew you were a tory?"

Because the left are generally contemptuous of democracy and think they have a right to be in power all the time. Reading the Guardian over the last five years you'd think the coalition had come into power via a military coup and had a moral imperative to implement Labour policies, they couldn't comprehend the idea that other parties could be in office and have their own policies. There were no riots in 1997 because the Tory supporters couldn't accept the results.

There's a lot of tribalism in politics. Working class areas will hate Thatcher but not Wilson who closed down twice as many mines in half the time.

The left like to shut down debate on the Internet which makes them think the Tories are less popular than they really are. You've created a reality distortion field which leaves you shocked and appalled when the results come in and they don't line up with forum comments. You can't downvote people in a voting booth like you can on reddit.

pisshead fucked around with this message at 12:10 on May 10, 2015

# ? May 10, 2015 12:06

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Jippa posted:

Yep it looks like we are going right back to the third way.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/may/10/election-aftermath-live-nicola-sturgeon-and-chuka-umunna-on-the-andrew-marr-show

Well, I've been saying that I was fascinated by how Labour were going to react and...I'm not angry, just disappointed. At some point the unions need to stop funding Labour, because they seem to exist purely so New Labour arseholes can talk about how bad Labour is. If Mandleson doesn't want their money then find someone who does.

# ? May 10, 2015 12:10

Pistol_Pete: Sep 15, 2007; Oven Wrangler

Well, considering the total right wing vote in this thread's poll was a little over 10%, it's fair to say thet the posters here are not exactly in line with the opinions of the general public.

# ? May 10, 2015 12:10

pisshead: Oct 24, 2007

forkboy84 posted:

At some point the unions need to stop funding Labour

That would help them both because then Labour wouldn't be lumbered with unelectable people like Ed even though the MPs and members voted for David. I wonder how the union leaders are feeling about teling their members to vote for Ed? How's that worked out for them?

# ? May 10, 2015 12:11

Gonzo McFee: Jun 19, 2010

Bozza posted:

Lets move onto important matters: Glasgow Goon Meet - 6th June?

I'll have to check my rota but If I'm free I'm up for it.

# ? May 10, 2015 12:12

Breath Ray: Nov 19, 2010

I don't think crying tories are the main group in this thread. I do think people are embarrassed to seem to be selfish that's why they don't mention it, with a few people were saying I'm voting tory could I be better off under them.

But uniquely people who are really left wing now have a choice about where to live - they can live in england or they can move to scotland. I can't remember if english people can benefit from living in scotland I know that tuition fees ah only for scottish people.

# ? May 10, 2015 12:12

Boing: Jul 12, 2005; trapped in custom title factory, send help

If I move to Scotland and have children there, will they have free tuition?

# ? May 10, 2015 12:14

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Boing posted:

If I move to Scotland and have children there, will they have free tuition?

From what I understand (& I'm not a parent so haven't looked into it) So long as your kids spend X number of years in Scottish schools they would get free university tuition. Unless the law is changed in the next 20 years.

pisshead posted:

That would help them both because then Labour wouldn't be lumbered with unelectable people like Ed even though the MPs and members voted for David. I wonder how the union leaders are feeling about teling their members to vote for Ed? How's that worked out for them?

In the sense Labour would lose the overwhelming majority of it's funding with no guarantee of replacing it, yes, that'll be a massive help for Labour.

# ? May 10, 2015 12:16

thespaceinvader: Mar 30, 2011; The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!

Yes, I believe so.

Well, assuming that the free tuition lasts the 18 years between you producing them and them being at University. And assuming they get into a Scottish University.

# ? May 10, 2015 12:16

CoolCab: Apr 17, 2005; glem

I think it's three years residency, so unless they're pretty freakishly gifted, certianly.

# ? May 10, 2015 12:16

maev: Dec 6, 2010; Economically illiterate Tory Boy Bollocks brain.
Keep away from children

forkboy84 posted:

From what I understand (& I'm not a parent so haven't looked into it) So long as your kids spend X number of years in Scottish schools they would get free university tuition. Unless the law is changed in the next 20 years.

The law will be changed as soon as Scotland has to fund itself.

# ? May 10, 2015 12:22

Adar: Jul 27, 2001

Can confirm the Isle of Man law changed as soon as this happened.

# ? May 10, 2015 12:24

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

pisshead posted:

Because the left are generally contemptuous of democracy and think they have a right to be in power all the time. Reading the Guardian over the last five years you'd think the coalition had come into power via a military coup and had a moral imperative to implement Labour policies, they couldn't comprehend the idea that other parties could be in office and have their own policies. There were no riots in 1997 because the Tory supporters couldn't accept the results.

There's a lot of tribalism in politics. Working class areas will hate Thatcher but not Wilson who closed down twice as many mines in half the time.

The left like to shut down debate on the Internet which makes them think the Tories are less popular than they really are. You've created a reality distortion field which leaves you shocked and appalled when the results come in and they don't line up with forum comments. You can't downvote people in a voting booth like you can on reddit.

And yet this doesn't seem to be so in the USA or elsewhere. A great deal of people do the exact opposite, making right wing bubbles and being convinced of the "rightness" of getting rid of the baby killing gays/ abortioniers.

I wonder what it is that makes the left seem to not have a reason for it's anger. If I were to tell you about the fact that Jimmy Saville hosed kids you would be incensed and angered by it. But if I tell you about how a lack of money for certain areas of schools is leading to a loss of earnings and competitiveness for everyone you don't react with the same fervor. Is it because the first is a personal "bad man do something wrong" and the latter is a systemic thing? Could the problem be that, as much as anything else, seeing things that are bad as systems not as individual choices is why the left has difficulty?

I don't know, sometimes it feels like I am spitting words down a big well.

# ? May 10, 2015 12:24

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Adar posted:

Can confirm the Isle of Man law changed as soon as this happened.

The Isle of Man's tax situation is pretty funny to look at.

# ? May 10, 2015 12:28

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# ? Jun 9, 2024 23:23

DesperateDan: Dec 10, 2005; Where's my cow?

Is that my cow?

No it isn't, but it still tramples my bloody lavender.

There's been a fair bit of discussion over "what next" inbetween some real high quality shitposting and I thought I would throw in my two pennorth.

Politicians, corporations and the media. That's the system. That's how we got to where we are today politically, and the mutually beneficial ecosystem they have between themselves is self-protecting and self-replicating. Each covers for the other two, supports the other two and ensures the survival and evolutionary capability of the current system. But each is now entirely reliant on the others- like the fire triangle, kick in one of the sides sufficiently and the whole thing will weaken and/or collapse. Therefore, the weakest side of the triangle must be identified, and ways to attack/neutralise formed that are not entirely negated by the other two sides. Attack the government, and you get kettled, beaten in the streets and castigated by the media. The chances of another poll tax riot occurring outside my fevered wet-dreams is minimal. Attack the corporations... how? By not buying poo poo anymore? That leaves the media. The media are how you end up with people genuinely thinking that scroungers are bleeding the country dry, or that every third immigrant is actually hellbent on raising the isis flag over the commons, or that labour were entirely responsible for the 2008 crash. People read that poo poo day in, day out with no challenge and it becomes the accepted narrative.

There was a lot of beating up on tories/trolls pretending to be tories over the last hundred or so pages. It comes from a genuine place. It's easy to see everyone that voted tory or kipper or whatever as soulless bastards as people that are engaged in the political scene, did their research and decided that yes, those disabled people actually deserved to die, cold and alone. But that's too easy. It's too simple. I don't think that is representative of the majority of voters. The majority of voters didn't really sit down, read the manifestos in detail and fact check and look at what various parties did in power- they voted tory because their family always voted tory, or labour because they remember how their pit electrician uncle virulently hated tories, or kipper because of 5 years of the mail telling them in elaborately constructed false narratives that immigrants hosed everything and must be stopped. People are largely consumed by their lives, and political aspects are not really of debate, but more something that is spoonfed to them by a trusted authority, swallowed without question.

If there is hope, it lies in ~~the proles~~ getting people to actually loving think about things. No idea how it can be done, or even if it's possible, but it seems like the only avenue of attack available.

# ? May 10, 2015 12:36

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT May 2015: The Ed Wedding

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