Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > TRUMP: holy FUCK its november 8th
«‹›14088 »
 
  • Locked thread
William Bear
Oct 26, 2012

"That's what they all say!"
Detailed article in the NYTimes about Marco Rubio's billionaire mentor Norman Braman:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/10/us/billionaire-lifts-marco-rubio-politically-and-personally.html

quote:

MIAMI — One day in the State Capitol in Tallahassee, Marco Rubio, the young speaker of the House, strayed from the legislative proceedings to single out a lanky, silver-haired man seated in the balcony: a billionaire auto dealer named Norman Braman.

This man, Mr. Rubio said in effusive remarks in 2008, was no ordinary billionaire, hoarding his cash or using it to pursue selfish passions.

“He’s used it,” Mr. Rubio said, “to enrich the lives of so many people whose names you will never know.” As it turned out, one of the people enriched was Mr. Rubio himself.

As Mr. Rubio has ascended in the ranks of Republican politics, Mr. Braman has emerged as a remarkable and unique patron. He has bankrolled Mr. Rubio’s campaigns. He has financed Mr. Rubio’s legislative agenda. And, at the same time, he has subsidized Mr. Rubio’s personal finances, as the rising politician and his wife grappled with heavy debt and big swings in their income.

Now, with Mr. Rubio vaulting ahead of much of the Republican presidential field, Mr. Braman is poised to play an even larger part and become Mr. Rubio’s single biggest campaign donor, with an expected outlay of approximately $10 million for the senator’s pursuit of the White House.

A detailed review of their relationship shows that Mr. Braman, 82, has left few corners of Mr. Rubio’s world untouched. He hired Mr. Rubio, then a Senate candidate, as a lawyer; employed his wife to advise the Braman family’s philanthropic foundation; helped cover the cost of Mr. Rubio’s salary as an instructor at a Miami college; and gave Mr. Rubio access to his private plane.

The money has flowed both ways. Mr. Rubio has steered taxpayer funds to Mr. Braman’s favored causes, successfully pushing for an $80 million state grant to finance a genomics center at a private university and securing $5 million for cancer research at a Miami institute for which Mr. Braman is a major donor.

Even in an era dominated by super-wealthy donors, Mr. Braman stands out, given how integral he has been not only to Mr. Rubio’s political aspirations but also to his personal finances.

Mr. Rubio, 43, is unabashed in acknowledging the influence of Mr. Braman, a commanding and litigious figure with so much clout in Miami that he almost single-handedly recalled a sitting mayor.

In an interview, Mr. Rubio described Mr. Braman as a father figure who had given him advice on everything from what books to read to how to manage a staff. After Mr. Rubio’s father died in 2010, Mr. Braman called every other day to check in.

Pressed on his financial ties to Mr. Braman, Mr. Rubio said in an interview that he saw no ethical issue. “What is the conflict?” he asked. “I don’t ever recall Norman Braman ever asking for anything for himself.”

He acknowledged that Mr. Braman had approached him about state aid for projects, such as funding for cancer research, but said that he had supported the proposals on their merits.

The reliance on Mr. Braman is likely to put a spotlight on the finances of Mr. Rubio, who ranks among the least-wealthy candidates in the emerging Republican field. Mr. Rubio left the Florida House of Representatives in 2008 with a net worth of $8,351, multiple mortgages and $115,000 in student debt. In his latest financial disclosure form, for 2013, he reported at least $450,000 in liabilities, including two mortgages and a line of credit.

Mr. Braman and aides to Mr. Rubio have declined to say how much personal financial assistance he has provided to Mr. Rubio and his wife, directly or indirectly, but it appears to total in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

In a series of interviews at his office in downtown Miami, above showrooms of shiny BMWs and Rolls-Royces (he also sells Cadillacs, Audis and Bugattis), Mr. Braman praised the Rubios. He recounted what he described as “excellent service from them” over the years, and said he wanted nothing in return for his financial help.

“I’m not going to be an ambassador or anything like that,” he said.

Mr. Braman — a former owner of the Philadelphia Eagles; the chairman of Art Basel, which stages art shows; and a collector who owns works by Andy Warhol, Alexander Calder and Picasso — emphasized that there were limits to the friendship.

“I also have a yacht,” Mr. Braman said, “that Senator Rubio has never seen.”

Mr. Braman has the manner of a man accustomed to getting what he wants. He was vacationing in France one summer when the mayor of Miami — not the one he had recalled from office — informed him that he would seek to raise taxes. Mr. Braman hung up the phone, turned to his wife and declared: “Goodbye, I’m heading back to Miami to fight this.” He returned home and led a successful campaign to block the increase.

“If you’re going to do something, you do it all the way,” he said.

As early as 2008, Mr. Braman made a bold prediction, captured in a video tribute to his friend: Mr. Rubio would be the first Hispanic president of the United States. Seeing that through in 2016, Mr. Braman said in one of the interviews, is “part of my legacy.”

The partnership began in the early 2000s when a Miami lawmaker introduced them. Mr. Braman, himself the son of immigrants, was instantly drawn to the story of Mr. Rubio, a child of struggling Cuban refugees. By 2004, Mr. Braman and his wife had donated $1,000 to Mr. Rubio’s State House campaign, the first of many contributions.

Mr. Rubio quickly emerged as a dogged champion of Mr. Braman’s most cherished cause: state funding for a Miami cancer institute that bears the Braman family name.

Florida’s governor, Jeb Bush, had vetoed the funding in 2004, incurring Mr. Braman’s public fury. “Frankly, as a very active Republican, I’m ashamed of him,” Mr. Braman said then of Mr. Bush.

Mr. Rubio did not let it happen again. The next year, he secured the cancer funding over Mr. Bush’s objections. “Marco,” Mr. Bush wrote in a somewhat grudging email to a lobbyist at the time, “strongly wanted the Braman Cancer money.”

Soon, Mr. Rubio became a regular visitor to Mr. Braman’s office on Biscayne Boulevard. By the time Mr. Rubio was elected speaker of the House, the youngest in Florida’s history, Mr. Braman felt close enough to show up at the 2005 celebration in Tallahassee and deliver a memorable — and valuable — token of affection: a framed Revolutionary War-era American flag. It hung, on loan, in Mr. Rubio’s office for the entirely of his tenure as speaker.

In Mr. Braman, a Republican with a strong distaste for wasteful government spending, an ardent commitment to Israel and a seemingly limitless bank account, Mr. Rubio found a devoted sponsor.

When Mr. Rubio geared up for re-election to the House, more than a dozen individuals and companies linked to Mr. Braman, including his Honda and Cadillac dealerships, gave Mr. Rubio $500 each, the maximum donation allowed under Florida law.

When Mr. Rubio decided to write a book laying out a conservative vision for Florida’s future, Mr. Braman said, he chipped in money to pay for its publication.

When Mr. Rubio announced his signature legislative goal, an initiative to slash property taxes and raise the sale tax, Mr. Braman contributed $255,000 to the advocacy group lobbying for the changes, becoming by far its largest donor.

Mr. Rubio said the flow of donations from Mr. Braman had no effect on his decision-making as House speaker, adding that he would never give preferential treatment to a donor. But in 2008, when Mr. Braman sought the $80 million for the genomics institute at the University of Miami, a large taxpayer grant to a private college, Mr. Rubio delivered the opposite message: Mr. Braman’s request, he said, had tilted the scales.

Usually, Mr. Rubio said at a news conference at the time, he would have laughed off such an eye-popping pitch. “But when Norman Braman brings it to you,” Mr. Rubio said, “you take it seriously.”

Later that year, when Mr. Rubio left state government, determined to shore up his finances before running for the United States Senate, he landed a teaching job at Florida International University, agreeing to raise much of his salary through private donations.

Mr. Braman gave $100,000, according to records he shared with The New York Times. Dario Moreno, who oversaw the university center where Mr. Rubio worked and who taught classes with him, confirmed that Mr. Rubio had raised the money from Mr. Braman.

In the spring of 2010, as Mr. Braman was donating heavily to Mr. Rubio’s Senate campaign, his company, Braman Management, hired Mr. Rubio as a lawyer for seven months. According to records provided by Mr. Braman, the company paid Mr. Rubio until a week before he was sworn in as a senator.

Four months after Mr. Rubio left the payroll, Mr. Braman hired Mr. Rubio’s wife, Jeanette, who had little professional experience in philanthropy, and her company, JDR Events, to advise the Braman foundation. Mr. Braman declined to discuss her compensation.

Mr. Rubio said the offers of work from Mr. Braman had a simple motivation: “We are close personal friends. They trust us.”

Mrs. Rubio’s job, fielding and vetting requests for donations to one of Miami’s biggest charitable foundations, has given her a major profile in the world of Florida philanthropy.

An internal Braman foundation document makes clear that Mrs. Rubio has become a crucial gatekeeper. “On hold,” read a notation next to a pending donation. “Wait to hear from Jeanette.”

At times, the foundation’s work has coincided with Mr. Rubio’s own globe-trotting political needs. In 2013, when Mr. Rubio traveled to the Middle East, Mrs. Rubio joined him, with the Braman foundation paying for her travel. According to Mr. Rubio’s aides, she was conducting work for the foundation abroad.

On four occasions, Mr. Rubio has traveled on Mr. Braman’s private plane, reimbursing him each time.

Mr. Braman acknowledged seeking the occasional “small favor” from Mr. Rubio’s Senate office. There was the daughter of the woman who does his nails, Mr. Braman recalled, who had an immigration problem, and the student from Tampa who wanted a shot at military school. In both cases, he said, Mr. Rubio’s staff was quick to respond. (Mr. Rubio’s staff said it had decided not to recommend the Tampa student.)

Mr. Braman seemed conflicted about his reputation as civic power broker, at once boasting of his ability to draw a high-ranking Miami official to his office with a single phone call and seeming anxious that he not be viewed as entitled.

“I don’t consider myself a fat cat,” he said. “Don’t make me out to be a fat cat.”

As he spoke in his office, an aide interrupted, presenting Mr. Braman with a yellow sticky note. The Florida Senate was about to vote on a bill he had sought, granting auto dealers like himself greater leverage over car manufacturers.

“That was fast,” Mr. Braman said.

Moments later, another adviser popped his head in, declaring victory. “Thirty to four,” he said of the vote, with a fist pump.

I was really surprised to see how low the Rubios' net worth was. To elaborate further, Washington Post estimated he had a net worth of 400k in 2010 (The Senate median was 1.7m in 2010. His latest financial disclosure in 2013 revealed that he's since paid off the student loans and his liabilities are just a few hundred thousand in mortgages and home equity lines of credit.

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/politics/capitol-assets/member/marco-rubio/
http://pfds.opensecrets.org/N00030612_2013.pdf

Marco Rubio should make this part of his campaign story. He worked hard and pulled himself out of debt with a little help from his friends!

* # ? May 10, 2015 09:08
  • Quote
Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 16, 2024 00:41
  • Quote
SKELETONS
May 8, 2014
 That's a great article. God, it really is who you know.

* # ? May 10, 2015 11:57
  • Quote
aBagorn
Aug 26, 2004

William Bear posted:

Detailed article in the NYTimes about Marco Rubio's billionaire mentor Norman Braman:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/10/us/billionaire-lifts-marco-rubio-politically-and-personally.html


I was really surprised to see how low the Rubios' net worth was. To elaborate further, Washington Post estimated he had a net worth of 400k in 2010 (The Senate median was 1.7m in 2010. His latest financial disclosure in 2013 revealed that he's since paid off the student loans and his liabilities are just a few hundred thousand in mortgages and home equity lines of credit.

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/politics/capitol-assets/member/marco-rubio/
http://pfds.opensecrets.org/N00030612_2013.pdf

Marco Rubio should make this part of his campaign story. He worked hard and pulled himself out of debt with a little help from his friends!

Wait Norman "former Philadelphia Eagles owner AKA The Man From Florida AKA the guy who let Reggie White walk" Braman?!!?!

My feelings toward Rubio have moved from apathy to seething hatred.

* # ? May 10, 2015 12:10
  • Quote
Joementum
May 23, 2004

jesus christ
Bloomberg Politics / Saint Anselm NH poll.



Poor Joey, always the bridesmaid, never the bride.
* # ? May 10, 2015 12:38
  • Quote
sullat
Jan 9, 2012

Nessus posted:

It's because the IRS is seen as this demonic force which has audited and ruined people and been horrifying and evil just because they didn't pay their taxes, as if that's illegal or something. Obviously, by destroying the IRS, all those bad things will come to an end, and whatever newly renamed agency that collects taxes will be totally different. Of course in two decades they'll be promising to abolish the Treasury Revenue Collectors.

Nah, Cruz doesn't care about that. He (and the other Republican candidates) don't like the fact that all 90,000 employees are under the control of the sinister Lois Lerner, using their power to crush all conservative dissent. Presumably the new agency will be politically neutral or favorable to the conservative cause.

* # ? May 10, 2015 15:40
  • Quote
Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007

I think I died and woke up in L.A.,
I don't know how I wound up in this place...
:canada:

joeburz posted:

Does rand always wear the same terrible suit combination

A blazer is the official uniform of NHL GMs and coaches. If it's good enough for national sports team managers, it's good enough for the... President. :getin: :patriot:

Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 16:45 on May 10, 2015

* # ? May 10, 2015 16:42
  • Quote
Gyges
Aug 4, 2004

NOW NO ONE
RECOGNIZE HULK

William Bear posted:

Detailed article in the NYTimes about Marco Rubio's billionaire mentor Norman Braman:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/10/us/billionaire-lifts-marco-rubio-politically-and-personally.html


I was really surprised to see how low the Rubios' net worth was. To elaborate further, Washington Post estimated he had a net worth of 400k in 2010 (The Senate median was 1.7m in 2010. His latest financial disclosure in 2013 revealed that he's since paid off the student loans and his liabilities are just a few hundred thousand in mortgages and home equity lines of credit.

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/politics/capitol-assets/member/marco-rubio/
http://pfds.opensecrets.org/N00030612_2013.pdf

Marco Rubio should make this part of his campaign story. He worked hard and pulled himself out of debt with a little help from his friends!

If only every mega donor's quid pro quo was government grants to cancer research and genetic research. It's all good though, as long as Rubio never sees that one yacht, we can be assured that the limits to their relationship stand firm.

* # ? May 10, 2015 16:44
  • Quote
Mr Ice Cream Glove
Apr 22, 2007

 From Jeb Bush commencement speech at Liberty University

quote:

“It is not only untrue, but also a little ungrateful, to dismiss the Christian faith as some obstacle to enlightened thought, some ancient, irrelevant creed wearing out its welcome in the modern world. Whether or not we acknowledge the source, Hebrew Scripture and the New Testament still provide the moral vocabulary we all use in America – and may it always be so. As usual, the present administration is supporting the use of coercive federal power. What should be easy calls, in favor of religious freedom, have instead become an aggressive stance against it. Somebody here is being small-minded and intolerant, and it sure isn’t the nuns, ministers, and laymen and women who ask only to live and practice their faith. Federal authorities are demanding obedience, in complete disregard of religious conscience – and in a free society, the answer is no."

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/watch/jeb-bush-at-liberty-university-commencement-442640451512

Mr Ice Cream Glove fucked around with this message at 17:43 on May 10, 2015

* # ? May 10, 2015 17:41
  • Quote
anime was right
Jun 27, 2008

death is certain
keep yr cool
 mmm thats some high quality empty speech

* # ? May 10, 2015 18:04
  • Quote
DaveWoo
Aug 14, 2004

Fun Shoe
More Jeb:

quote:

Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush (R) would have authorized the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq, putting the likely 2016 presidential contender on the same page as his brother George W. Bush, the president who actually did so.

“I would have [authorized the invasion], and so would have Hillary Clinton, just to remind everybody. And so would almost everybody that was confronted with the intelligence they got,” Bush told Fox News' Megyn Kelly in an interview scheduled to air Monday.

But he acknowledged that the "intelligence that everybody saw, that the world saw, was faulty," adding that after the invasion, the U.S. ought to have focused on securing and stabilizing Iraq in order to shield its people from sectarian violence.

“By the way, guess who thinks that those mistakes took place as well? George W. Bush. Yes, I mean, so just for the news flash to the world, if they’re trying to find places where there’s big space between me and my brother, this might not be one of those," Jeb Bush said.
* # ? May 10, 2015 18:30
  • Quote
Horseshoe theory
Mar 7, 2005

DaveWoo posted:

More Jeb:

Not sure how that hurts him since Clinton voted for the authorization of the Iraq War.

* # ? May 10, 2015 18:32
  • Quote
Nolan Arenado
May 8, 2009

 “By the way, guess who thinks that those mistakes took place as well? George W. Bush. Yes, I mean, so just for the news flash to the world, if they’re trying to find places where there’s big space between me and my brother, this might not be one of those"

does make him kind of sound like a petulant child though...

* # ? May 10, 2015 18:41
  • Quote
Scrub-Niggurath
Nov 27, 2007

DaveWoo posted:

More Jeb:

well....

He's not wrong.

* # ? May 10, 2015 18:42
  • Quote
Dolash
Oct 23, 2008

aNYWAY,
tHAT'S REALLY ALL THERE IS,
tO REPORT ON THE SUBJECT,
oF ME GETTING HURT,

 That's actually an interesting line of inquiry though, and if we get Bush/Clinton debates the Iraq war is going to make for some fascinating mental and verbal gymnastics. JEB's in a tough position where he can't repudiate the Iraq war (and how unpopular it is) because it'll kick up a fuss about him breaking with his brother, not to mention he's employing the same foreign policy shop. Hillary has to know by now her Iraq war support is a liability with the Democratic base after 2008 but it'll be really hard to attack Bush on his rhetorical support for his brother when she provided formal political support. There's bound to be some awkward, backhand attacks that try to thread the needle just right.

* # ? May 10, 2015 18:49
  • Quote
Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Dolash posted:

That's actually an interesting line of inquiry though, and if we get Bush/Clinton debates the Iraq war is going to make for some fascinating mental and verbal gymnastics. JEB's in a tough position where he can't repudiate the Iraq war (and how unpopular it is) because it'll kick up a fuss about him breaking with his brother, not to mention he's employing the same foreign policy shop. Hillary has to know by now her Iraq war support is a liability with the Democratic base after 2008 but it'll be really hard to attack Bush on his rhetorical support for his brother when she provided formal political support. There's bound to be some awkward, backhand attacks that try to thread the needle just right.
It seems like it'd be really easy for Hillary to say 'I believed my opponent's brother and it turns out that I was wrong, terribly wrong, to do so. Mr. Bush of course intends to hire the same team that his brother did.'

* # ? May 10, 2015 18:52
  • Quote
computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

PLEASE CLAP

ThirdPartyView posted:

Not sure how that hurts him since Clinton voted for the authorization of the Iraq War.

Hillary: "I was tricked into this like the majority of America."

Jeb: "I think it was right and I'd do it again too!"

* # ? May 10, 2015 18:56
  • Quote
swampland
Oct 16, 2007

Dear Mr Cave, if you do not release the bats we will be forced to take legal action
It really was unfortunate that faulty information that led to the Iraq War just happened to appear out of nowhere.

* # ? May 10, 2015 18:58
  • Quote
Horseshoe theory
Mar 7, 2005

computer parts posted:

Hillary: "I was tricked into this like the majority of America."

Jeb: "I think it was right and I'd do it again too!"

And America is only going to give a poo poo that Hillary voted "Yes" so they're even.

* # ? May 10, 2015 18:59
  • Quote
computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

PLEASE CLAP

ThirdPartyView posted:

And America is only going to give a poo poo that Hillary voted "Yes" so they're even.

[citation needed]

* # ? May 10, 2015 18:59
  • Quote
Horseshoe theory
Mar 7, 2005

computer parts posted:

[citation needed]

Swiftboat Veterans for Truth, Willie Horton, Daisy, the entirety of the American political campaigning history (pretty much)?

* # ? May 10, 2015 19:01
  • Quote
DEEP STATE PLOT
Aug 13, 2008

Yes...Ha ha ha...YES!

DaveWoo posted:

More Jeb:

Well he deserves some credit for being straightforward about it, I guess.

* # ? May 10, 2015 19:03
  • Quote
computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

PLEASE CLAP

ThirdPartyView posted:

Swiftboat Veterans for Truth, Willie Horton, Daisy, the entirety of the American political campaigning history (pretty much)?

You'll have to elaborate on that.

* # ? May 10, 2015 19:03
  • Quote
Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

ThirdPartyView posted:

Swiftboat Veterans for Truth, Willie Horton, Daisy, the entirety of the American political campaigning history (pretty much)?
Based on my estimated six trillion seen repetitions of "Hillary Voted For The Iraq War, And Is Thus Bad" in the past five or so years, I'm going to guess that this particular factoid has already made whatever impact it was going to.

Like this is really Hillary's secret weapon, "We heard all that bullshit already! Christ!"

* # ? May 10, 2015 19:05
  • Quote
computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

PLEASE CLAP

Nessus posted:

Based on my estimated six trillion seen repetitions of "Hillary Voted For The Iraq War, And Is Thus Bad" in the past five or so years, I'm going to guess that this particular factoid has already made whatever impact it was going to.

Like this is really Hillary's secret weapon, "We heard all that bullshit already! Christ!"

And besides, Republicans aren't going to be the ones saying "Saying the Iraq war was a good idea is bad".

* # ? May 10, 2015 19:06
  • Quote
Gyges
Aug 4, 2004

NOW NO ONE
RECOGNIZE HULK

ThirdPartyView posted:

Not sure how that hurts him since Clinton voted for the authorization of the Iraq War.

Any instance of Jeb pointing out how similar to his brother he is is a bad instance. If Jeb actively turns this into Bush Years vs Clinton Years, he's pretty hosed. He isn't going to come out an blast his brother for points, but that doesn't mean he should be talking about how much his policy agenda is like his brother's.

One Senator's vote is not comparable to the actions of the guy who actually campaigned for and waged a lovely war.

* # ? May 10, 2015 19:16
  • Quote
DaveWoo
Aug 14, 2004

Fun Shoe

OctoberBlues posted:

“By the way, guess who thinks that those mistakes took place as well? George W. Bush. Yes, I mean, so just for the news flash to the world, if they’re trying to find places where there’s big space between me and my brother, this might not be one of those"

does make him kind of sound like a petulant child though...

To be fair, if I was put into the position of having to constantly defend my older brother's colossal fuckups, I'd probably get a little testy after a while, too.

* # ? May 10, 2015 19:18
  • Quote
Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

ThirdPartyView posted:

Not sure how that hurts him since Clinton voted for the authorization of the Iraq War.

She could release a statement that's something along the lines "and look at the giant loving mess your brother made that I spent years helping to clean up."

* # ? May 10, 2015 19:19
  • Quote
Cliff Racer
Mar 24, 2007

by Lowtax

Raskolnikov38 posted:

She could release a statement that's something along the lines "and look at the giant loving mess your brother made that I spent years helping to clean up."

That probably wouldn't be a good thing to say, seeing as Iraq became a mess under Obama's watch with ISIS taking over a quarter of the country. Hillary'd be much better off arguing about the decision to go to war than the ways in which the administrations dealt with the aftermath.

* # ? May 10, 2015 19:25
  • Quote
Goatse James Bond
Mar 28, 2010

If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

Cliff Racer posted:

That probably wouldn't be a good thing to say, seeing as Iraq became a mess under Obama's watch with ISIS taking over a quarter of the country. Hillary'd be much better off arguing about the decision to go to war than the ways in which the administrations dealt with the aftermath.

There's a strong argument to be made that Daesh's ascendancy was more or less inevitable after the Bush presidency, but the argument relies heavily on nuance and wonkish details, so you are quite right that it is probably not a viable proposition to present to the American public.

* # ? May 10, 2015 19:28
  • Quote
Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Cliff Racer posted:

That probably wouldn't be a good thing to say, seeing as Iraq became a mess under Obama's watch with ISIS taking over a quarter of the country. Hillary'd be much better off arguing about the decision to go to war than the ways in which the administrations dealt with the aftermath.

That's probably true since ISIS is Bush's fault still but to explain why would take longer than Americans' goldfish-esque attention span.

* # ? May 10, 2015 19:28
  • Quote
Pohl
Jan 28, 2005




In the future, please post shit with the sole purpose of antagonizing the person running this site. Thank you.

Mike Huckabee posted:


quote:

Mike Huckabee, the Republican presidential candidate, defended his endorsement of a dubious diabetes remedy on Sunday, telling an interviewer that “if that’s the worst thing somebody can say to me” then “I’m going to be a heck of a good president.”
“I don’t have to defend everything that I’ve ever done,” Mr. Huckabee said. “I’m not doing those infomercials, obviously, now as a candidate for president.”
* # ? May 10, 2015 19:53
  • Quote
Fuckt Tupp
Apr 19, 2007

Science

Pohl posted:




The Huckabee equivalent of "We can't have illegals, I'm running for president for God's sake!"

* # ? May 10, 2015 20:09
  • Quote
Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:
Yeah the only way Clinton should bring up Iraq is in terms of "My decision was based on intelligence from Bush's handpicked administration which turned out to be an intentional deception."

* # ? May 10, 2015 21:10
  • Quote
site
Apr 6, 2007

Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

Pohl posted:




lol If pointing out I'm selling a fake diabetes cure is the worst they can say about me (it's not), I'll be great as President!

Neo Rasa posted:

Yeah the only way Clinton should bring up Iraq is in terms of "My decision was based on intelligence from Bush's handpicked administration which turned out to be an intentional deception."

A lie Jeb just admitted he would perpetrate himself!

site fucked around with this message at 21:54 on May 10, 2015

* # ? May 10, 2015 21:51
  • Quote
ohgodwhat
Aug 6, 2005

 Are there any good summaries documenting how that was intentional? I have a couple of articles that were linked here before about how the people in charge wanted to get back into an Iraq war for quite some time, but nothing that really connects the dots that I can show to people who go "well whoops guess there weren't any WMDs!"

* # ? May 10, 2015 22:04
  • Quote
StrugglingHoneybun
Jan 2, 2005

Aint no thing like me, 'cept me.
I admire his honesty/gumption. Doubling down on his brother's policies is a bold strategy. I wonder if this could result in lower poll numbers and a huge backpedal.

* # ? May 10, 2015 22:22
  • Quote
Alkydere
Jun 7, 2010
Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

End of Life Guy posted:

I admire his honesty/gumption. Doubling down on his brother's policies is a bold strategy. I wonder if this could result in lower poll numbers and a huge backpedal.

Not at this point. It's really too early to give a gently caress and Jeb knows it. He's just got to keep his nose clean and let the clown-car burn themselves out before anything he says will actually affect his chances.

Now, if he repeats this point after the idiot brigade has all fallen to self-inflicted wounds he might end up wanting to backpedal, but only then.

* # ? May 10, 2015 22:37
  • Quote
Fried Chicken
Jan 9, 2011

Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

ohgodwhat posted:

Are there any good summaries documenting how that was intentional? I have a couple of articles that were linked here before about how the people in charge wanted to get back into an Iraq war for quite some time, but nothing that really connects the dots that I can show to people who go "well whoops guess there weren't any WMDs!"

Google "Iraq intelligence work group stove piping" and you should have a good start. They created a special group paralleling the work of the intelligence community that, rather then being reviewed and checked by the experts, went straight to the White House. The group was filled with think tank apparatchiks instead of intelligence people, and somehow what they found in the course of their amateur sleuthing exactly matched what they had written policy papers on before. Then when r intelligence community did check their work and found it was bullshit, it didn't matter because theirs was in desks months ago and was already being used in media appearances

Also run through "Downing Street memo" and "Judith Miller New York Times"

* # ? May 10, 2015 23:55
  • Quote
Fulchrum
Apr 16, 2013

by R. Guyovich

Gyges posted:


One Senator's vote is not comparable to the actions of the guy who actually campaigned for and waged a lovely war.

Have you read this thread? People were saying that voting for the war means she deserves war criminal status.

However, the only people it's likely to actually resonate with is us.

* # ? May 10, 2015 23:56
  • Quote
Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 16, 2024 00:41
  • Quote
Weltlich
Feb 13, 2006
Grimey Drawer

Fried Chicken posted:

Google "Iraq intelligence work group stove piping" and you should have a good start. They created a special group paralleling the work of the intelligence community that, rather then being reviewed and checked by the experts, went straight to the White House. The group was filled with think tank apparatchiks instead of intelligence people, and somehow what they found in the course of their amateur sleuthing exactly matched what they had written policy papers on before. Then when r intelligence community did check their work and found it was bullshit, it didn't matter because theirs was in desks months ago and was already being used in media appearances

Anecdotally, I can say that this was going on as late as 2008. Working in the field, we were often prompted to find evidence of a reality that the administration wanted to be true, rather than what was actually true. We called it "Faith Based Intelligence." For instance, we were often required to ask our contacts about absurd things like the location of fissile material in Iraq. It was incredibly frustrating, especially when we were returning good intelligence that was ignored.

* # ? May 11, 2015 00:03
  • Quote
  • Locked thread
The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > TRUMP: holy FUCK its november 8th
«‹›14088 »