Demiurge4 posted:I would argue not having children is selfish. You are basically saying you are too good and important to spend time caring for another human being. Parenthood is defined by putting the needs of your child above your own, resisting the basic human compulsion to reproduce is inherently selfish but whatever you need to tell yourself I guess. having kids feels too good for not doing it to be selfish
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May 13, 2015 09:57
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Relentlessboredomm posted:The entire Bugle podcast was about the elections if you want more Oliver on the UK elections. Though it is mainly just John going "What the gently caress happened?" over and over. Rightly so too.
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May 13, 2015 10:14
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Solice Kirsk posted:And light years away from embracing real football. The One True Sport. Well, that and hockey. Actually, I like hockey more..... Light years away from embracing ice hockey. The One True Sport. Which one is the "real football" in your opinion? Because carrying the ball in your *hands*, running head-first into other people is not football.
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May 13, 2015 10:29
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DoggPickle posted:Your anecdotes don't make any reasonable sense. If I got hurt playing sports, I'd have to take paid vacation or unpaid leave at the discretion of my boss, and that's how it SHOULD BE. Just because you type all day in someone's employ doesn't make them responsible for your entire freaking life. I'm sorry about your dad, but a grown man should have enough money saved to make it 0-3 weeks (depending on his leftover vacation) to go without pay. Beyond that, like a major illness - you can try for disability? your fagget rear end is the reason IVF is becoming so popular in the US. People are resorting to egg freezing because their job doesn't consider 'giving birth' as an important part of life. They also know that having a baby is 'career killer'. Im not even American and I hate you. And what's with your stupid rear end using the term 'helicopter parents' like you're qualified to talk about parenthood in any way, shape or form. Also you are a gigantic beta for not telling your boss to eat a bag of dicks when he forced you back to work on the day your dad died. I can't believe you tell that story with no self-awareness and no shame. I bet you tell that story proudly to the few friends you have. They are making fun of you behind your back for being such a spineless weasel btw. If in the unlikely scenario you ever have sex with a willing participant, I hope your 'crotchspawn' doesn't visit you on your deathbed because his manager at Denny's wouldn't give him the day off. You'll be so proud. In conclusion, I wish your mom wasn't allowed time off from work. Then maybe she wouldn't have been able to give birth to a dickless piece of poo poo son like yourself (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 13, 2015 12:29
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Irish Joe was probated for talking about Doobie's underage son's 'dick sucking lips'.
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May 13, 2015 12:30
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WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW posted:Irish Joe was probated for talking about Doobie's underage son's 'dick sucking lips'. Don't worry, he has a replacement. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 13:06 on May 13, 2015 |
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May 13, 2015 12:51
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WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW posted:your fagget rear end is the reason IVF is becoming so popular in the US. People are resorting to egg freezing because their job doesn't consider 'giving birth' as an important part of life. They also know that having a baby is 'career killer'. That's quite impressive! You not only managed to not read the thread, you couldn't even bother reading the actual post you quoted carefully enough to realize that DoggPickle is a woman before stomping in and calling her "dickless" and "fagget"! Why even bother posting at that point?
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May 13, 2015 13:06
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Offler posted:That's quite impressive! You not only managed to not read the thread, you couldn't even bother reading the actual post you quoted carefully enough to realize that DoggPickle is a woman before stomping in and calling her "dickless" and "fagget"! Why even bother posting at that point? If you ask me, the two of them deserve each other.
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May 13, 2015 13:14
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Offler posted:That's quite impressive! You not only managed to not read the thread, you couldn't even bother reading the actual post you quoted carefully enough to realize that DoggPickle is a woman before stomping in and calling her "dickless" and "fagget"! Why even bother posting at that point? it makes it even more funny that DoggPickle is a woman
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May 13, 2015 13:58
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Demiurge4 posted:I would argue not having children is selfish. You are basically saying you are too good and important to spend time caring for another human being. Parenthood is defined by putting the needs of your child above your own, resisting the basic human compulsion to reproduce is inherently selfish but whatever you need to tell yourself I guess. Not necessarily; it can also be a rational decision because you recognize that you would be a lovely parent. My wife and I have chosen not to have children, because chronic anxiety and depression runs in both of our families. So not only would our children likely have the same conditions, they would be growing up in a household with parents whom, to be perfectly honest, aren't doing a very good job of dealing with their own emotional issues. For us, having a child risks forcing another human being to endure an emotionally unstable, and perhaps even traumatic, childhood; something that I feel would be selfish to do just to indulge some biological compulsion. The idea that having a child is inherently selfish is complete bullshit, of course, but there is more that goes into people's choice than just economics and ego.
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May 13, 2015 14:28
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A lot of this discussion reminds me of a story my dad told me when he worked for the UK branch of a US company. One of the workers got pregnant and one of the american managers (a bunch had moved over to the British branch) casually told my dad to fire her. He had to explain that that was extremely illegal, not to mention morally deplorable. Apparently the american guy just muttered something about 'soft limeys' and wandered off.
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May 13, 2015 15:03
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Paper Kaiju posted:Not necessarily; it can also be a rational decision because you recognize that you would be a lovely parent. My wife and I have chosen not to have children, because chronic anxiety and depression runs in both of our families. So not only would our children likely have the same conditions, they would be growing up in a household with parents whom, to be perfectly honest, aren't doing a very good job of dealing with their own emotional issues. For us, having a child risks forcing another human being to endure an emotionally unstable, and perhaps even traumatic, childhood; something that I feel would be selfish to do just to indulge some biological compulsion. You made a rational decision based on all the information available to you at the time? Congratulations on taking the road least traveled in human history. 
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May 13, 2015 15:04
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Remember, there's also badgering your siblings to have kids! From an evolutionary standpoint, kids with parents AND an uncle/aunt looking after them can be more fit than kids with just two parents looking after them. Your nieces and nephews are also about as related to you as your own grandchildren will be, so might as well cut to the chase. Do everyone a favor - poke holes in your siblings' condoms. 
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May 13, 2015 15:18
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Irish Joe posted:Lack of extraordinary benefits hasn't stopped the poor from breeding like rabbits. Quite the opposite, actually (its almost like poor people make bad decisions hmmmm). We should redistribute the wealth so that nobody is poor and nobody makes bad decisions.
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May 13, 2015 15:22
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Relentlessboredomm posted:Every single proposal to improve the lives of the poor and middle class in this country is met with resistance and that resistance always circles back around to the belief that people suffering are doing so because somehow they deserve it. How the gently caress is this so prevalent? How? Pretty sure it's the loving Pilgrims and the other protestant colonists bringing over Calvin and that Protestant Work Ethic. There's also the agrarian basis of our society for most of it's history and our insistence on maintaining class distinctions while also insisting on papering over official class distinction. Plus various mineral, land, and other natural resource wealth opportunities being fairly open until the last century helped to reinforce our national myth of the self made man.
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May 13, 2015 15:50
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DoggPickle posted:Because it's a life choice that you should save up for and plan.It's not a freak accident or a death of another person that you have no control over. A lot of couples buy houses too. Should you get extra pay or leave in order to do that? My dad died while I was at work. I took a half-day off. I already had my own house and if I didn't work, it wasn't getting paid for. My mom died on Christmas, so lucky me, I didn't need to take off work for that one. I did have to sell my car to pay for the funeral expenses and the two extra houses and two extra cars that I suddenly owned 5 days before all the mortgages/payments were due. Your parents would probably still be alive if it wasn't for you. They clearly should have been less selfish.
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May 13, 2015 19:05
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Honestly I'm glad that all these pages came about from someone having a meltdown rather than Irish Joe just relentlessly trolling. It was a lot more entertaining.
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May 13, 2015 21:11
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Regy Rusty posted:Honestly I'm glad that all these pages came about from someone having a meltdown rather than Irish Joe just relentlessly trolling. It was a lot more entertaining. It let me get involved more at least! That's what everyone wanted right
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May 13, 2015 21:13
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DoggPickle posted:Because it's a life choice that you should save up for and plan.It's not a freak accident or a death of another person that you have no control over. A lot of couples buy houses too. Should you get extra pay or leave in order to do that? My dad died while I was at work. I took a half-day off. I already had my own house and if I didn't work, it wasn't getting paid for. My mom died on Christmas, so lucky me, I didn't need to take off work for that one. I did have to sell my car to pay for the funeral expenses and the two extra houses and two extra cars that I suddenly owned 5 days before all the mortgages/payments were due. BEEP BOOP PATERNAL FIGURE HAS CEASED LIFE FUNCTIONS, REQUEST 4 HOURS TO DISPOSE OF BODY MATERNAL FIGURE HAS CEASED LIFE FUNCTIONS DURING PAID HOLIDAY - 100% EFFICIENCY ACHIEVED EMOTION COEFFICIENT: 0.00001% EMPATHY COEFFICIENT: NULL NOW UPDATING ESTIMATED NET WORTH...
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May 13, 2015 21:16
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Zeta posted:BEEP BOOP I also liked the Romneybot response to tragedy of like welp if you need some money why not just sell some of your stocks beep boop, what, you don't keep a "sudden death in the family slush fund" squirreled away you irresponsible shits?
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May 13, 2015 21:54
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Zeta posted:BEEP BOOP It shouldn't be big surprise that some people live paycheck-to-paycheck on hourly jobs and literally cannot afford to lose hours even if they might prefer to take time to grieve. Since she mentioned having to sell her car to handle the expenses of dealing with the estate I assume she's in that category rather than a RomneyBot economic bracket. If anything her tirade is accidentally another argument for FMLA leave to provide salary replacement. Honestly, I feel like the people who are least compassionate about the needs of struggling working Americans are often...struggling working Americans. Our corporate/political masters have done a great job of convincing everyone that the problem holding them back is their peers rather than (excuse my facile faux-Marxism) the rentiers.
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May 13, 2015 22:17
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Woo, 4 pages of utter bullshit. How bout all yall fuckers relax and talk about the most important part of last week's show: Cornelius the Illuminati Pyramid!
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May 13, 2015 23:20
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Yeah! Quit discussing the show in this discussion thread about the show!
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May 13, 2015 23:39
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Solice Kirsk posted:Yeah! Quit discussing the show in this discussion thread about the show! To be fair, most people were talking about someone's lovely opinions on the topic of the show, rather than talking about the topic of the show or the show itself.
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May 14, 2015 00:53
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GutBomb posted:To be fair, most people were talking about someone's lovely opinions on the topic of the show, rather than talking about the topic of the show or the show itself. If everyone just agreed, that'd be the end of discussion. But if some crazy person comes in ranting and raving, people can talk about why that person is dumb, leaving everyone (except the crazy person) with a better understanding of the situation. Honestly, that conversation was about as good as I could imagine. When I saw hundreds of posts after that episode, I was afraid people had started talking to Irish Joe (who is good at preventing incidental interesting conversation by being so inflammatory), so it was a pleasure to learn that a more sincere crazy person, who also had the decency to leave after dropping that beautiful mess on the thread. People continuing to attempt to make sick burns on that person's last post are way more entertaining (when they do well) than John Oliver's unfortunate mascot fetish. Jeff the diseased lung was pretty funny in context, but there's been way too much of that poo poo.
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May 14, 2015 01:42
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Regy Rusty posted:Honestly I'm glad that all these pages came about from someone having a meltdown rather than Irish Joe just relentlessly trolling. It was a lot more entertaining. To be fair, it started with someone agreeing with Irish Joe and then having a meltdown when called out on it.
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May 14, 2015 20:22
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Eiba posted:Well, except that conversation kind of ran it course and was hilarious, and also gave people a good opportunity to talk about the issue.  Ok one specific mascot is cool
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May 14, 2015 21:08
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Ok f it. It's the internet, so you can choose to believe me or not, but I clicked on the Flash thread and missed (because laptop touchpad) and the entire page of yellow quotes basically destroyed my resolve never to post again. #1) gently caress that guy who had zero reading comprehension and among other things called me a human being and couldn't even spell it right. I appreciate the reluctant stick up for me post, because he's a stupid idiot. #2) I'm not some emotionless robot. My dad had been "dying" from when I was 18 until I was 24. I literally could not continue working when my mom called to tell me. It was the day after my birthday by the way, and I knew that he hung on just for me, so he wouldn't die on my birthday. It was also a friday, and I had to have someone come pick me up because I could not drive. #3) I really was living month to month with a pretty heavy amount of savings, but even THAT could not save me from having to pay two extra mortgages with all the utilities and two extra cars in 5 DAYS. I had perfect credit that I worked really hard for! So you do the right thing, and be responsible. I sold my decent car, and kept the POS that my parents' had had since 1997. So if that makes me some BEEP-BORP robot, than very well. But I think it makes me a responsible human being. #4) I'm actually quite capable of making babies and there's one out there right now that is 18 years old true story, so you can just stop all that "you can't do it, so of course you're jealous or pissed or whatever" It was a freak accident and I had TWO periods after I was pregnant and then it was illegal to do anything about it. So yeah, I've actually LIVED the nightmare scenario. I had no choice in the matter. I've had two abortions also. One was from a broken condom (and I thought NO WAY CMON, plus it was before Plan B existed) and one was with my husband when I was switching between the patch and the ring, and by all accounts, I should have been safe. SHOCKER, I'm not a disgusting couch-blob and I CAN get dudes to gently caress me, even marry me  #5) I'm not all SCREW YOU I GOT MINE. I was just asking for any legitimate reason to ask someone who doesn't intend on having kids to support any measures for more paid maternity leave. I think it makes young women even more unlikely to get chosen for jobs. I've actually had an employer tell me to cut his list of potential secretaries by any woman that was between 20-35. And we don't even have the really GOOD leave in America. I can't imagine what it would be like if you could take 18 months off for free. If I was a small business owner, I would of course make up some excuse, but gently caress THAT if I'm hiring any girl who could possibly get pregnant. It's a total waste of time and money.#6) these glib excuses about having kids being "human nature" are just silly. Human nature is for all you guys to screw anything possible, willing or not, but you make a rational decision to do otherwise ( I HOPE!). Do we not understand science and genetics? If you KNOW that your genes are sub-par, is it not your DUTY not to procreate? I'm not talking about Nazi level eugenics, but simple things, like mental illnesses, possible Tay-Sachs, or in my case, a horrible predilection for very early cancer. There is a middle-ground between these extremes. Biological imperative also means that we should seek out the most alpha males at all opportunities and try to get their seed at all costs. I'm pretty sure we're intellectually over that as well. #7) It's clear that I seemed a bit ranty, but like I said right away I had very little sleep and probably shouldn't have posted in the first place. It's just the pre-understood level of agreement that makes no sense to me. (and puts me in the "troll position" whether or not I was actually called that specifically.) Also troll position just made me laugh. Sorry. I like puns. #8) I think that the more rational people are correct, and that in our current system, if everyone just generally had more leave, then taking all this time off for babies would be completely less irritating. I'm sure it's a cultural thing, but I have real trouble imagining 1/3 of my office just gone for years at a time, and then attempting to get any actual work done.. I guess it works out somehow in the end? But I can't imagine being a business owner and just choosing to accept that. :/ #9) Since everyone I have ever been related to, worked their asses off and still went and died right before retirement, I don't actually have to work anymore. At all. This was just a thought exercise exactly like I said. So in total, pretty much half the suppositions over the last couple pages were completely wrong. You're attacking a person (who you don't understand) instead of a cogent argument. Even though it was a bit ranty sounding. I got a little emotional at the dad-death bit. (and that's my bad) But I really think that calling my post some CRAZY person Rant/rave is a bit out of touch with reality. *Why should I want to pay for other people to have babies?* <- it's still the same question. Or you can just get back to making fun of John's Mascots. And Japanese people. Or both.
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May 14, 2015 22:35
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DoggPickle posted:#5) I'm not all SCREW YOU I GOT MINE. I was just asking for any legitimate reason to ask someone who doesn't intend on having kids to support any measures for more paid maternity leave. I think it makes young women even more unlikely to get chosen for jobs. I've actually had an employer tell me to cut his list of potential secretaries by any woman that was between 20-35. And we don't even have the really GOOD leave in America. I can't imagine what it would be like if you could take 18 months off for free. I'm caught half way between laughing my rear end off and "What the actual gently caress." DoggPickle posted:#9) Since everyone I have ever been related to, worked their asses off and still went and died right before retirement, I don't actually have to work anymore. At all. This was just a thought exercise exactly like I said. So in total, pretty much half the suppositions over the last couple pages were completely wrong. You're attacking a person (who you don't understand) instead of a cogent argument. Even though it was a bit ranty sounding. I got a little emotional at the dad-death bit. (and that's my bad) But I really think that calling my post some CRAZY person Rant/rave is a bit out of touch with reality. Firmly in the laughing my rear end off camp now. You are the actual definition of gently caress YOU GOT MINE and the lengths you go to deny it are funnier than half the people on this forum.
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May 14, 2015 22:42
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DoggPickle posted:#4) I'm actually quite capable of making babies and there's one out there right now that is 18 years old true story, Just want to quote this so you guys realize you aren't arguing with a college student but a grown-rear end adult who has held these views for her whole life and you won't change her mind. DoggPickle, supporting young parents is something a decent society does, out of goodwill. You don't have to like it, but that's the "why" you are so desperately looking for. It's the humane thing to do and everyone had parents at some point so ideally, everyone benefitted from the benefits their parents got. Katana Gomai fucked around with this message at 22:53 on May 14, 2015 |
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May 14, 2015 22:50
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DoggPickle posted:#6) these glib excuses about having kids being "human nature" are just silly. Human nature is for all you guys to screw anything possible, willing or not, but you make a rational decision to do otherwise ( I HOPE!). Do we not understand science and genetics? If you KNOW that your genes are sub-par, is it not your DUTY not to procreate? I'm not talking about Nazi level eugenics, but simple things, like mental illnesses, possible Tay-Sachs, or in my case, a horrible predilection for very early cancer. There is a middle-ground between these extremes. Biological imperative also means that we should seek out the most alpha males at all opportunities and try to get their seed at all costs. I'm pretty sure we're intellectually over that as well. I'm not talking Nazi level eugenics guys, just average everyday of the week reasonable eugenics
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May 14, 2015 22:54
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You guys have made it quite clear that I will never get any reasonable replies, and the next generation is really weird and pretentious because you want rainbows and unicorns. Screw it.
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May 14, 2015 22:56
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DoggPickle posted:
DoggPickle posted:#9) Since everyone I have ever been related to, worked their asses off and still went and died right before retirement, I don't actually have to work anymore. At all. Um...what? These two statements contradict each other. Yes arguing with a full growed up lady set in her ways is silly so we should all stop now.
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May 14, 2015 23:01
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DoggPickle posted:*Why should I want to pay for other people to have babies?* <- it's still the same question. Or you can just get back to making fun of John's Mascots. And Japanese people. Or both. Because 86% of Americans have babies. Throw it in with the money you pay for fixing roads you'll never drive on, and so forth, and be happy in the knowledge that other people will have to pay for the social services you DO end up using. Honestly, for all you scoff at the idea of "human nature", having children is much, much more fundamental than men loving anything that moves, or 1st-worlders logically deciding that they don't want to pass on their poor genetics. Reproduction is a cornerstone present in literally every species, because if you aren't able to replace your dead, then you cease to be a species eventually. And while some aspects of "human nature" are usually repressed, this is done so that we can live in a society that creates a richer life for everyone (and that society is driven in large part by the urge to provide a better life for our children). Each person, on average, NEEDS to create 1 more person if society is going to continue.
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May 14, 2015 23:01
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DoggPickle posted:You guys have made it quite clear that I will never get any reasonable replies, and the next generation is really weird and pretentious because you want rainbows and unicorns. Screw it. It's impossible to respond with reasonable replies to unreasonable bullshit, hth.
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May 14, 2015 23:04
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DoggPickle posted:Ok f it. It's the internet, so you can choose to believe me or not, but I clicked on the Flash thread and missed (because laptop touchpad) and the entire page of yellow quotes basically destroyed my resolve never to post again.  Seriously, watching you try to justify this is even better than trying to address it.
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May 14, 2015 23:06
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What the holy hell is going on in this thread? You know what nevermind, I don't care. Whatever it is drop it and move on.
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May 14, 2015 23:09
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May 14, 2015 23:11
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"Why should I pay for other people to have babies?" Reducing it to brute economic terms: the babies are gonna have a better outcome if they have a parent with them in their first few months of life. Better to pay upfront now than to pay for them to be on welfare or in prison (to use an extreme example.) But also because you're a jerk if you don't. Not everybody has to have a baby, but every baby has to be born. It's absurd to ask why businesses should have to "bear" the cost since businesses get such outsized benefits from taxpayers already in the form of infrastructure, employees educated in public schools, subsidies, tax breaks and write offs, etc.
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May 14, 2015 23:21
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Deadpool posted:What the holy hell is going on in this thread? You know what nevermind, I don't care. Whatever it is drop it and move on. Discussion of the show the thread is about. Whoever is clicking the report button for this thread is a huge douchebag and you should ignore them.
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May 14, 2015 23:24
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