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FRINGE posted:http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/18-year-old-girl-dies-jail-after-police-accused-her-faking-medical-emergency quote:“She was in a coma, she had brain swelling. Her brain had swelled. They said they (the prison medical staff) did CPR on her for 33 to 40 minutes until they called 9-1-1. That’s what the doctor told us. So you do the math,” Moyer said.
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May 15, 2015 21:50
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DARPA posted:I really hope this is a misunderstanding of what happened because who the gently caress doesn't call 9-1-1 the second someone needs CPR? But hey, they investigated themselves, determined they followed their own protocol and therefore the law. "Following protocol" moves liability from the officer to the department/city so no poo poo the people involved say that.
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May 15, 2015 21:58
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I'm no expert, but I don't think you would have to do CPR for 33 to 40 minutes to realize it isn't working.
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May 15, 2015 22:23
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Ralepozozaxe posted:I'm no expert, but I don't think you would have to do CPR for 33 to 40 minutes to realize it isn't working. I think the saying goes "If their torso isn't a mess of crushed bones and pounded meat by the time the EMTs get there you're not doing CPR long enough"
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May 15, 2015 22:24
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Having just done a first aid course the only time you are supposed to start doing CPR is after you have called an ambulance because for all intense and purposes the person is dead whilst you are phoning, they are not going to get any deader by you wringing up, and keeping it up for 30 minutes is ridiculous.
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May 15, 2015 22:30
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DARPA posted:I really hope this is a misunderstanding of what happened because who the gently caress doesn't call 9-1-1 the second someone needs CPR? But hey, they investigated themselves, determined they followed their own protocol and therefore the law. First step of CPR: call 911.
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May 15, 2015 22:37
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In case anyone remembers this from a few years back, the kid in San Diego who was locked in a box by the DEA for days (and tried to commit suicide by eating glass as his kidneys were failing - all they left him with to drink was his own urine) finally got justice! I mean "justice" as in the heroes were not inconvenienced at all for having tortured a college kid and driven him to suicide. http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/no-charges-dea-agents-who-held-innocent-man-cell-5-days-without-food-or-water quote:No Charges For DEA Agents Who Held Innocent Man in Cell For 5 Days Without Food or Water No accountability no problems! Short vacation and back to torturing innocent citizens. quote:Four DEA agents were reprimanded, another was given a five-day suspension without pay, and the supervisor in charge received a seven-day suspension.
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May 15, 2015 22:38
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I don't understand the culture in law enforcement. In every job I've worked, if someone was a gently caress up their coworkers and especially their supervisor didn't want anything to do with them. How are things so "us vs them" that people want to cover for lovely coworkers who must make their jobs harder?
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May 15, 2015 23:11
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Dum Cumpster posted:I don't understand the culture in law enforcement. In every job I've worked, if someone was a gently caress up their coworkers and especially their supervisor didn't want anything to do with them. How are things so "us vs them" that people want to cover for lovely coworkers who must make their jobs harder? Military style training teaches you to see your coworkers as more than just coworkers. You're more willing to cover up a crime your brother committed than you are to cover for some schlub you work with.
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May 15, 2015 23:13
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ElCondemn posted:Military style training teaches you to see your coworkers as more than just coworkers. You're more willing to cover up a crime your brother committed than you are to cover for some schlub you work with. They train the DEA like that too? And I hated people just for being bad at cleaning bathrooms or writing lovely code. No one ever drove some poor Asian kid insane. How do these people not quit their jobs after ruining someone's life? Are they completely devoid of empathy?
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May 15, 2015 23:18
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Dum Cumpster posted:They train the DEA like that too? They work for the DEA, it's like expecting a Gestapo officer to be a normal, well adjusted human being
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May 15, 2015 23:25
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B-but it's so hard being white! Waaaaaagh!
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Dum Cumpster posted:They train the DEA like that too? It's pretty easy to understand. If everyone plays nice together no one gets in trouble no matter what. Usually this means that if you forgot to fill out a form completely or whatever, it's not a problem. However when felonies start to occur because you forgot to fill out the form (i.e. you never booked the suspect so they are dying from dehydration after 5 days) and the dude that was supposed to check the cells nightly hasn't done that in 10 years because of an understanding with his coworkers, the stakes are higher, and the more important it is to ensure you don't cooperate with any investigation anymore then you need to. After all, if negligence can be proven, you can potentially be found responsible. But if you all "follow the rules" then you will never be personally held responsible for anything.
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May 15, 2015 23:44
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So that whole debate: "Who is worse murdercops or the DAs that hide them?" http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/watch-leaked-video-shows-north-carolina-cop-shooting-black-suspect-in-the-back-as-he-ran-away/ quote:Leaked video shows North Carolina cop shooting black suspect in the back as he ran away
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May 15, 2015 23:52
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Vaginapocalypse posted:They work for the DEA, it's like expecting a Gestapo officer to be a normal, well adjusted human being I mean, just read this, and ask yourself what kind of regressive halfwit would willingly write and/or enforce that policy for a living. Modern day brownshirts, that's who. Franks Happy Place fucked around with this message at 00:00 on May 16, 2015 |
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May 15, 2015 23:54
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That dude has serious guts and also is very lucky he didn't get shot.
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May 15, 2015 23:57
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FRINGE posted:So that whole debate: "Who is worse murdercops or the DAs that hide them?" North Carolina < South Carolina
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May 16, 2015 00:03
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FRINGE posted:Its definitely hero-hour all around! As an addict, I can't even imagine being in withdrawal while in jail. Not only are you having to deal with withdrawal, which is hellish and torture in and of itself, but you're also having to deal with the stress of being in jail and not being given access to what little can help or ease the withdrawal. Like, just the thought of being in that situation makes me feel sick, and I cannot even imagine what sort of person could see someone going through that level of suffering and show no empathy. And that's not even mentioning the whole "letting a person die (likely related to dehydration from the withdrawal)" thing. I can't even comprehend what would make someone such a bad person.
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May 16, 2015 01:24
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Dead Reckoning posted:Wow, this is the first time I've seen the "appeal to siege warfare" used. I'm sure ballistae, boiling oil, and medieval systems of justice would greatly improve our jails. Lemmie just say thanks for the laugh but you have gotten very confused you see boiling oil would be used by the prisoner to try and keep the police out; the police wouldn't be adding those to our prisons to "improve them".
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May 16, 2015 01:27
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reignofevil posted:Lemmie just say thanks for the laugh but you have gotten very confused you see boiling oil would be used by the prisoner to try and keep the police out; the police wouldn't be adding those to our prisons to "improve them".
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May 16, 2015 01:46
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pathetic little tramp posted:Seriously, how dumb are police officers? Like, how do you not understand what a person gasping for breath and slowly dying looks like? Are all cops under a 3rd grade education level? How did we arrive at a place where our arbiters of our laws have such little brain capacity that they seem like they need help tying their shoes? They're not dumb, they just know they'll likely get away with it.
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May 16, 2015 02:15
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Dead Reckoning posted:Maybe, but the prisoners probably won't like it when the cops trade the MRAP towards a trebuchet and a pile of flaming boulders & rotting livestock corpses.
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May 16, 2015 03:24
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Ytlaya posted:As an addict, I can't even imagine being in withdrawal while in jail. Not only are you having to deal with withdrawal, which is hellish and torture in and of itself, but you're also having to deal with the stress of being in jail and not being given access to what little can help or ease the withdrawal. IMO, if you hate withdrawal, you should probably not be doing drugs that can cause it when your dumb rear end gets arrested and thrown in jail.
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May 16, 2015 06:11
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Really if you have a medical emergency, shouldn't you be left to die to teach you a lesson about why you shouldn't have gone to jail in the first place?
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May 16, 2015 06:15
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reignofevil posted:So yeah we kind of have stepped back if you want to view progress as "how good have we gotten at getting people out of hidey-holes without killing them" but on the other hand if you want to view progress as "amount of time taken to kill someone" then yeah we have really moved forward as a people because killing that guy was waaaaaay quicker the way we do it these days versus ancient technology.
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May 16, 2015 06:20
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-Troika- posted:IMO, if you hate withdrawal, you should probably not be doing drugs that can cause it when your dumb rear end gets arrested and thrown in jail. "Why can't drug addicts just not get addicted?" Wow. Someone actually went there.
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May 16, 2015 06:31
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-Troika- posted:IMO, if you hate withdrawal, you should probably not be doing drugs that can cause it when your dumb rear end gets arrested and thrown in jail. - William S. Sessions
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May 16, 2015 06:32
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Dead Reckoning posted:You seem really into this siege warfare comparison, so it may behoove you to look up how most sieges ended. The phrase "put to the sword" comes up a lot. An interesting phrase "put to the sword". It almost implies that once the people inside surrendered they would be at the mercy of the attacker who would then choose to kill them a lot. Hrmm. We better really try hard to think about what this could mean. It could be that we would be forced to murder him after he surrendered since after all; that happened a lot back in the middle ages and we can really do no better Or it could be that we could somehow balance the patience we used to have as a society for sieges with the compassion that we have supposedly developed since. Eh gently caress it obviously we should just focus on how weird I am and not how you are apologizing for the people who killed that guy. Edit- Honestly though I pretty much feel I have made my point with this post. Let me know if anybody is burning for more siege warfare in this thread but somehow I doubt it. Just know that my overall point is that we used to be willing to wait for things and that frankly as a society we could do so much better. reignofevil fucked around with this message at 06:44 on May 16, 2015 |
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May 16, 2015 06:35
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I'm trying to remember when I was first exposed to the idea that drug addiction might be a public health issue and not a sign of bad moral character. It seemed reasonable at the time anyway, and I changed my mind. I wish other people would too.
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May 16, 2015 06:35
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Samurai Sanders posted:I'm trying to remember when I was first exposed to the idea that drug addiction might be a public health issue and not a sign of bad moral character. It seemed reasonable at the time anyway, and I changed my mind. I wish other people would too. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/the-real-cause-of-addicti_b_6506936.html
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May 16, 2015 06:43
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FRINGE posted:This is absolutely not an end-all point of view, but it deserves more attention than I have seen it getting: A while back, Cracked interviewed a man who had spent months homeless to shed some light on the condition of homeless people and break a lot of myths. He said that drug use often appeared simply because there was nothing else to do; so much of our society's entertainment and social status relies on money and a home. The homeless are so poor that they're often unable to go out to see movies, spend time with friends (if they even have any friends or family), get anything more than what books they can borrow or steal, or consistently get Internet access. With so little substance to their lives (especially as many of them are working desperately to try and get back on their feet), they have nothing to turn to but drugs to feel anything positive in their lives.
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May 16, 2015 06:54
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reignofevil posted:Edit- Honestly though I pretty much feel I have made my point with this post. Let me know if anybody is burning for more siege warfare in this thread but somehow I doubt it. Just know that my overall point is that we used to be willing to wait for things and that frankly as a society we could do so much better.
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May 16, 2015 06:56
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FRINGE posted:This is absolutely not an end-all point of view, but it deserves more attention than I have seen it getting:
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May 16, 2015 06:56
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Dead Reckoning posted:Yeah, we used to be willing to wait for the defenders to starve to death because we didn't have the means to kill them directly. It wasn't what I would call "better." For fucks sake learn English. Could implies a potential state in the future. The word that would imply that we had done better in the past would be "had" or "have done".
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May 16, 2015 06:58
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I'm glad to know our prisons aren't medieval gaols or ransacking of cities, and when we beat people to death it's only through brutishness and indifference rather than malice.
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May 16, 2015 06:58
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Samurai Sanders posted:That makes a lot of sense for everything except smoking, I think. People who are hopelessly addicted to that don't seem any less happy or connected than anyone else. Tobacco has been much less demonized than drugs like cocaine and heroin. While it's insidious and almost invariably deadly, the killing happens over long term. It's also been glamorized for years and even modern anti-smoking campaigns have failed to prevent it from seeming attractive or cool. The addiction is far more controlling than non-smokers often realize as well, and the withdrawal symptoms are lovely.
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May 16, 2015 08:18
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chitoryu12 posted:Tobacco has been much less demonized than drugs like cocaine and heroin. While it's insidious and almost invariably deadly, the killing happens over long term. It's also been glamorized for years and even modern anti-smoking campaigns have failed to prevent it from seeming attractive or cool. The addiction is far more controlling than non-smokers often realize as well, and the withdrawal symptoms are lovely. A big group of people involved with it have spent a lot of money over the years fighting negative perceptions and trying to downplay the risks to the public at large as well, which isn't exactly something other drugs have going for them. 
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May 16, 2015 11:15
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Franks Happy Place posted:I mean, just read this, and ask yourself what kind of regressive halfwit would willingly write and/or enforce that policy for a living. Dear god they literally claim that the legalization lobby is astroturfed by george soros, this looks like something from some far-right news website rather than a government agency.
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May 16, 2015 12:07
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Ytlaya posted:As an addict, I can't even imagine being in withdrawal while in jail. Not only are you having to deal with withdrawal, which is hellish and torture in and of itself, but you're also having to deal with the stress of being in jail and not being given access to what little can help or ease the withdrawal. because people in these positions tend to not view the addict as a person, or at least one worth empathizing with in the first place anyways. they see the addict as vermin or scum not worth their time and only worth derision.
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May 16, 2015 12:17
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Samurai Sanders posted:That makes a lot of sense for everything except smoking, I think. People who are hopelessly addicted to that don't seem any less happy or connected than anyone else. Since smoking is a very social practice, it's arguable that it stems from a desire to connect socially - I took up smoking to avoid being left with the drinks when my friends went out to the smoking area. Because the social stigma is far less than other drugs, the level of isolation occurring as both a cause and a consequence of addiction is far lower. Nicotine also has a biological addiction factor on a par with far stronger drugs, so the push/pull of giving up is far harder to overcome.
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May 16, 2015 12:29
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FRINGE posted:This is absolutely not an end-all point of view, but it deserves more attention than I have seen it getting: Anecdotal but the worst years of my life were also the ones I drank the most. I was pulling absurd amounts of hours, not sleeping much, was very single, and basically didn't have friends. I was barely getting by financially and the mountain of stress and lack of a support group meant that I was pretty much working, sleeping, or drinking. I only struggle with alcohol abuse when I'm in similar situations. Never did hit hard drugs or anything but I've really had some conversations about that with a lot of people that just don't understand why addictive behavior shows up in the first place. It absolutely isn't something that one chooses. If it were a choice and nothing else than addiction wouldn't exist.
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