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Here's your fresh Codex: SM rumours:quote:This one will ruin a few rainforests worth of pulp (unless you people buy it in digital) since there will be a s**tload of detachments along with formations. Seems pretty believable given the last few codexes.
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May 20, 2015 19:34
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Which new Space Marine detachment gets me +4 reanimation protocols worth of silly?
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May 20, 2015 19:47
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TKIY posted:Here's your fresh Codex: SM rumours: Is this suggesting that the new marine codex will be $100?
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May 20, 2015 20:00
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If they wanted to give Space Marines a more specialized feel they should have just reintroduced the old doctrines or doubled down on Chapter Tactics as they were. This seems kind of obtuse.
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May 20, 2015 20:01
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TheChirurgeon posted:Is this suggesting that the new marine codex will be $100? Are you suggesting that you would be shocked by this?
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May 20, 2015 20:02
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Uroboros posted:I'd like some thoughts on some 1500 point lists I've been mulling over. Tigurius is great and most of the other stuff you have is decent, but you're definitely risking getting hit by an alpha strike on turn one and losing that Land Raider so that your Terminators just kinda have to derp their way across the field. There's really no way around that risk in a 1500 list- it's just something you have to accept. Oh, put Extra Armor on the LR (you'll feel really dumb if you get Stunned and can't do anything for a turn.) The Typhoon is kinda a mediocre vehicle these days; not awful, but fragile enough that it will often get downed pretty quickly. Whirlwinds aren't very good. Take a Thunderfire Cannon instead if you're looking for anti-infantry. Try and get some Multimeltas on those Tacticals, or Lascannons if you wanna play really defensively with them. Having a 24" "vehicles stay the gently caress away" bubble is really useful. Meltabombs on a sergeant can be useful for handling Knights and MCs. Tigurius probably rolls once on Divination (to get Prescience so the Termies are guaranteed to murder things) and then roll twice on Telepathy hoping for Invis and/or Shrouding. quote:That being said here are some other lists I have been playing with, and would like to know your thoughts. Calgar doesn't really fit into a 1500 list very well, especially not when you're running; you also don't really need him to run Honor Guard at all, as he's a huge tax. He can be good in a larger army where his detachment-wide benefits affect lots of dudes, but you're not really set up to take good advantage of him. ~5 Honor Guard in a Rhino are a really nasty (and pretty cheap) surprise for most people, so if you wanna try them out either trim the squad down slightly or beef it up and run it as a full-size deathstar unit (potentially with Tiggy.) Grav Centurions have no psyker to give them buffs nor a good way to get in range, which is gonna hurt them a lot. They hit like a truck, but they will struggle to get within 24" against good players and T5/2+ doesn't carry you that far. I don't really like this version of the list very much; it feels rather mismatched. quote:B) Your Chapter Master is a good accompaniment to the Honor Guard (and a Pod can be a fine way to run them), but he needs to have a Storm Shield at the very least and possibly go for the full-on Shield Eternal so you have someone who can tank Lascannon shots without risk. Dreadnoughts are really mediocre. I wouldn't bother with them, especially not the shooting version in a Pod. Melta + Combigrav (or CombiMelta, depending on your local players) would be my preferred kit for Tacticals in Pods. Plasma isn't terrible, though. Assault Marines exist to bring a cheap Drop Pod and get equipped with a pair of Flamers, nothing else. Sorry, Plasma Pistols are awful and ASM themselves are not in any way good as a close combat unit. The Dev squad is going to struggle to do anything- at the very least, they want Multimeltas rather than Lascannons so that they are more likely to nuke a target (and range is irrelevant anyways.) However, I don't think they're a good inclusion overall, as there are better places to spend points. Five Pods in 1500 is a reasonable number to run (seven would be a "full" Pod list but you don't need to go that far to do well with them); however, I think your army is going to struggle, because it doesn't make good use of the strengths of Drop Pods. So, if you're trying to do a list, there's a couple ways we could take here; I'm not sure which you'd prefer. Option 1: Assault Terminators list. Tiggy or Chapter Master leading it, mostly like the version you have above but with some tweaks. Option 2: Standard Drop Pod list (possibly with Bikes mixed in, if you have any.) Would involve some changes, but wouldn't be too hard. Option 3: Calgar Drop Pod list. It's doable, assuming you have a whole bunch (40+) of Tactical Marines and whatnot. Option 4: Rhino list. You seem to really like/use Tacticals in Rhinos? White Scars and Raven Guard are both better at this than Ultramarines are, if you're open to switching Chapter Tactics. (And no, paint scheme doesn't matter for that unless you want it to.)
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May 20, 2015 20:08
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TKIY posted:Are you suggesting that you would be shocked by this? Yeah, actually. I didn't think they'd find a way to make buying physical codexes even less palatable, but raising the price from $60 to $100 will do it. SRM posted:If they wanted to give Space Marines a more specialized feel they should have just reintroduced the old doctrines or doubled down on Chapter Tactics as they were. This seems kind of obtuse. I can agree on doctrines but the Chapter Tactics don't quite get the job done for armies like the White Scars and Ravenguard (though the rules for the latter are a mess). Also Ultramarines Chapter Tactics are decent, but boring and I tend to forget them when I'm playing with them.
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May 20, 2015 20:13
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SRM posted:If they wanted to give Space Marines a more specialized feel they should have just reintroduced the old doctrines or doubled down on Chapter Tactics as they were. This seems kind of obtuse. I feel like this could be said for every army. I really hate the big, dumb formations made up of other formations. Well, and formations in general. I'd be much happier with unique force organization charts for each army like they'd been doing with the first 7th edition books.
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May 20, 2015 20:19
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TheChirurgeon posted:]  Safety Factor posted:I feel like this could be said for every army. I really hate the big, dumb formations made up of other formations. Well, and formations in general. I'd be much happier with unique force organization charts for each army like they'd been doing with the first 7th edition books.
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May 20, 2015 20:26
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SRM posted:I like formations as a concept, since they're in things like Flames of War. The Scions one I've used is really fun. I'd rather have unique FOCs though, that's easier to figure out and doesn't lump as many rules onto units as formations do. Maybe if you could only take one formation per list or something, I don't know. I like the general idea of taking a specific set of units to give them a small bonus, it just seems like it's gotten out of hand in the last few books.
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May 20, 2015 21:17
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I'm playing my IG vs DA tomorrow (almost all RW and DW). Any tweaks to this list? (Not included below are 6 chosen to accompany cypher. 2x plasma pistol + CC and 1x plasma gun, and a champion) **I'm able to switch out weapons on the vehicles and HWT, however not on the models.** ++ Astra Militarum: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) 1849pts (1436+217 for Fallen) ++ + No Force Org Slot (265pts) + Cypher (190pts) Primaris Psyker (75pts) [Force Staff, Psyker Mastery Level 2] + HQ (115pts) + Lord Commissar (115pts) [Bolt Pistol, Carapace Armour, HoC: The Deathmask of Ollanius, Power Sword] + Troops (441pts) + Infantry Platoon (285pts) ··Infantry Squad [Autocannon Team, 5x Guardsman, Guardsman w/ Flamer, Guardsman w/ Vox-caster] ····Sergeant [Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol] ··Infantry Squad [Autocannon Team, 6x Guardsman, Guardsman w/ Flamer] ····Sergeant [Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol] ··Infantry Squad [Autocannon Team, 6x Guardsman, Guardsman w/ Flamer] ····Sergeant [Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol] ··Platoon Command Squad [Guardsman w/ Heavy Flamer] ····Guardsman w/ Medi-pack [Lasgun] ····Guardsman w/ Platoon Standard [Lasgun] ····Guardsman w/ Vox-caster [Lasgun] ····Platoon Commander [Close Combat Weapon, Orders, Plasma Pistol] Veterans (156pts) [Grenadiers, 2x Veteran w/ Grenade Launcher, 7x Veteran w/ Shotgun] ··Chimera [Heavy Bolter, Multi-laser, Pintle-mounted Storm Bolter] ··Veteran Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon] + Fast Attack (330pts) + Armoured Sentinel Squadron (195pts) ··Armoured Sentinel [Extra Armour, Lascannon, Smoke Launchers] ··Armoured Sentinel [Extra Armour, Lascannon, Smoke Launchers] ··Armoured Sentinel [Extra Armour, Lascannon, Smoke Launchers] Valkyrie Squadron (135pts) ··Valkyrie [2x Multiple Rocket Pods, Multi-laser] + Heavy Support (285pts) + Leman Russ Squadron (205pts) ··Battle Tank [2x Plasma Cannons, Extra Armour, Lascannon, Pintle-mounted Storm Bolter] Wyvern Battery (80pts) ··Wyvern [Extra Armour, Heavy Bolter, Pintle-mounted Storm Bolter] ++ Inquisition: Codex (2013) (Inquisitorial Detachment) (198pts) ++ + HQ (108pts) + Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor (108pts) [Inferno Pistol, Power Armour, Power Sword, Psyker (Mastery Level 1), Psyocculum, Warlord] + Elites (90pts) + Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband (90pts) [4x Crusader] ··Ministorum Priest [Chainsword, Laspistol, Meltabombs]
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May 20, 2015 21:25
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OhDearGodNo posted:I'm playing my IG vs DA tomorrow (almost all RW and DW). What's Cypher do to help the army out? He's awesome to put in there for narrative reasons when you're fighting DA, but I'm curious what he brings to the table aside from a plasma pistol. Also, Cypher running with some Inquisition dudes sounds kinda unfluffy, but you do what you do.
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May 20, 2015 21:34
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How about Wednesday 22nd July for warhammer world. Lord Twisted can potentially get his final fling before starting his career. I will try and book one of bigger tables (any preferences?). Also, Ghost Hand, I bet many of us would be up for a further September meet. Do you have an idea of the date? Salute would be good but it consistently falls on the weekend nearest my wife's birthday
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May 20, 2015 21:55
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JackMack posted:How about Wednesday 22nd July for warhammer world. Lord Twisted can potentially get his final fling before starting his career. I will try and book one of bigger tables (any preferences?). Not sure on date yet - I'll let you guys know as it firms up. It's dependent on a business trip.
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May 20, 2015 22:07
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SRM posted:What's Cypher do to help the army out? He's awesome to put in there for narrative reasons when you're fighting DA, but I'm curious what he brings to the table aside from a plasma pistol. Also, Cypher running with some Inquisition dudes sounds kinda unfluffy, but you do what you do. He also gives DA up to D3 additional victory points if they destroy him within 2" or something of a DA model.
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May 20, 2015 22:09
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SRM posted:Not to make it seem like you're tailoring too much, but you should probably take some more plasma/melta in there. What are the flamers doing with the autocannons? If you gave those squads plasma guns instead they'd share S7 and be able to engage similar targets. I feel like IG squads should either be flamers or meltas with no heavies, or heavy weapons with plasma guns. What use is the medic in the platoon command squad? Those five dudes are gonna crumble pretty easily no matter what gets thrown their way, and they're not really valuable enough to give a medic. I try to only put medics in my company command squads or the Stormtrooper command squad. I pay Tyranids more than anything, and I have the flamers in the squads because wall of fire is better than a lasgun snap shot. I don't have a plasma HWT, only Lascannons and autos. The platoon command squad is eventually going to be promoted to a CCS, however I only have one. quote:What's Cypher do to help the army out? He's awesome to put in there for narrative reasons when you're fighting DA, but I'm curious what he brings to the table aside from a plasma pistol. Also, Cypher running with some Inquisition dudes sounds kinda unfluffy, but you do what you do. Cypher/Fallen are in the narrative. First, he's my favorite character and the only one I'd consider playing right now. I've had the model since about 2000. Here he is before I rebased him yet again.  The Inquisitor is on a whole new level of radical- If I could, I'd have him using malefic powers. I will have the entire army slowly devolving into chaos, led by the Inquisitor who thinks he's doing "good" the entire time. I have big plans for him and the Commissar. Nurgle is giving his blessing. It's only by coincidence that I'm playing DA, and it's going to be a challenge especially with all the rules between them.
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May 20, 2015 22:56
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ineptmule posted:This guy is so awesome. Yeah, he is one of the downright coolest models they have made in years.
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May 20, 2015 23:05
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Abusepuppy, thanks for lots of advice, I pretty much concede all your points that I didn't quote cause they make sense, the rest I have included, because I'd like further discussion.AbusePuppy posted:Your Chapter Master is a good accompaniment to the Honor Guard (and a Pod can be a fine way to run them), but he needs to have a Storm Shield at the very least and possibly go for the full-on Shield Eternal so you have someone who can tank Lascannon shots without risk. The thing is, I have to bring the Chapter Master if I want Honor Guard unless I am reading the rules wrong. For a while I thought about bringing a cheap one, but there isn't really a cheap Chapter Master if you want him to be anything other than multiple-wound/attack tactical Marine. Just by giving him Artificer and the Burning Blade I am investing 200+, chuck in the Shield Eternal and we are pretty much at Calgar's cost with zero cool special rules. I've mulled it over a lot and I just don't see a way to make the Chapter Master any good without pretty much paying the same cost I would for Calgar. I suppose I could go Artificer Armor + Shield Eternal with no special weapon and just use him as a tank, but that is still a 200 point investment. Unless I am reading the rules wrong, and I can take Honor Guard without a Chapter Master... AbusePuppy posted:Dreadnoughts are really mediocre. I wouldn't bother with them, especially not the shooting version in a Pod. I get that but I try to keep things as close to WYSIYG as possible, also for this tournament you get points due to force lay out. If I wanted to truly min/max I would have a 5 man assault w/ flamers coming in the pod to simply fill out those pod slots. That being said I have no assault Marines without jump packs nor do I have a thunderfire, so I figured a dreadnaught was the next cheapest thing. I might ditch the Lascannon on him and just stick with the Multi-Melta however. AbusePuppy posted:The Dev squad is going to struggle to do anything- at the very least, they want Multimeltas rather than Lascannons so that they are more likely to nuke a target (and range is irrelevant anyways.) However, I don't think they're a good inclusion overall, as there are better places to spend points. I play offensively, in almost every game at this tournament I've rarely had my enemy come within 12' of my stuff with vehicles. I like Multi-Meltas, but I need to be able to reach out and touch my enemy. Very rarely has my opponent simply come to me unless it is hoard army such as Orks. Devastators with Lascannon have actually been one of my most consistent units, assassinating Broadside Battlesuits, Ghost Arks, etc. I just don't get how MultiMeltas could be considered a superior choice unless you keep them very close to your lead deployment zone. In this tournament I have to have some units that are dedicated to holding rear objectives, and the Devastators have done that. If I give them Multi-Meltas they will likely never fire unless my opponent deepstrikes. I'd just have to see how you use them, because on this particular point I just disagree. If there is something that would be more points efficient than Lascannon Dev's I'd be open to that. I have brought a Tri-Las predator in the past, but it seems to explode much easier than a squad of Devastators. AbusePuppy posted:Option 1: Assault Terminators list. Tiggy or Chapter Master leading it, mostly like the version you have above but with some tweaks. I'll stick with Tiggy purely thanks to rerolls, I don't think I'd get my points investment back on a Chapter Master in this case. Also this list is hurting on points anyway, I'd have to give up my rear-line holders to kit the Master out properly. Most of the other tweaks I am unable to perform due to what I have. I don't have Thunderfires, the Typhoon was in there simply because I had 75 points left. I figured it can at least zip around my back field and secure points while firing Krak missiles if its to dangerous to venture out into the open. If I dropped both it and the Whirlwind, what would you suggest replacing them with? I've even thought about podding all the tacticals on this list. It is already a safe bet the Land Raider is going to be the enemy's focus. I could just drop pod all 30 tactical Marines, or even add in a 4th squad in a pod, while losing the Typhoon and Whirlwind. Tigurius makes me atleast consider splitting my forces in reserves, because he makes them showing up on turn 2 much more reliable. AbusePuppy posted:
I enjoy the tacticals/rhinos because they just seem reliable. 35 points to protect my guys until they get into cover, or get close enough to fight. They almost ALWAYS die, and I do hate having to spend a round driving at my enemy, which is why I am toying more and more with pods until I have enough for a good list. A reminder is that I am shooting once for a force that hits a lot of wickets, my army gets graded on its balance, so max squads, and making sure I bring atleast one of each unit type all adds to my rating. I also think bringing a majority troops is another thing.
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May 20, 2015 23:12
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ineptmule posted:It does not. There is an FAQ project run by the guy who manages tUGS that answers a lot of questions. I'm so on board.
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May 20, 2015 23:20
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Ghost Hand posted:Not sure on date yet - I'll let you guys know as it firms up. It's dependent on a business trip. My diary for July is currently empty so count me in for then. Will bring 1500-1750 points of something, maybe Necrons but I only have a Decurion so don't want to be powergamey. Will put some thought into it!
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May 20, 2015 23:29
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I could believe those rumours on the Space Marine codex , it's always been one of the larger books and they've gone butt loving nuts over detachments, formations, and special formation detachments.
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May 20, 2015 23:30
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My group has decided to toss formations and detachments from our games. They weren't that bad in Apocalypse games where you paid some points to have a special rule to go along with your collection of models but getting poo poo like 4+ Reanimation protocols on Wraiths for free is just absurd. The very fact that you can have two exact armies (exact same models and wargear options) on the table but they each have different rules is ludicrous.
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May 20, 2015 23:41
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BlackIronHeart posted:My group has decided to toss formations and detachments from our games. They weren't that bad in Apocalypse games where you paid some points to have a special rule to go along with your collection of models but getting poo poo like 4+ Reanimation protocols on Wraiths for free is just absurd. The very fact that you can have two exact armies (exact same models and wargear options) on the table but they each have different rules is ludicrous. When they first introduced them I thought they were a really cool idea, and sometimes when I'm flipping through a new codex I'll think "hell yeah this poo poo sounds awesome". But that's in theory and I know that when I get my dudes out on the table I'll end up either forgetting all the unique snowflake bonuses, or just not bothering due to the glut of other rules my feeble brain is trying to process. Take the new Marine rumours posted earlier with the multiple formation bollocks. I don't even understand how you'd even go about building a list from that.
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May 21, 2015 00:16
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Death by formations. Not a fan of this over the old design-a-chapter from I think 4 versions ago. I dig the new models and stuff.
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May 21, 2015 00:31
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I'm leaning toward the "no formations" side of things as well. I really like the 30K alternative FOC system instead. Their rules for D weapons are also pretty attractive.
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May 21, 2015 00:42
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OhDearGodNo posted:I pay Tyranids more than anything, and I have the flamers in the squads because wall of fire is better than a lasgun snap shot. I don't have a plasma HWT, only Lascannons and autos. That's some fun background you've got to work with with your army - Cypher and a rogue Inquisitor sound like a fun combination! I finally stuck some transfers on this bad larry and now it's done:     
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May 21, 2015 00:46
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Just wanna say that AdMech guy has a pimp cane, and that's pretty sweet.
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May 21, 2015 01:02
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That's an absurdly large barrel. I love it.
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May 21, 2015 01:10
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Speaking of formations and how confusing they make this dumb game: what happens when a new codex comes out? Do all the old formations get invalidated?
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May 21, 2015 01:50
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Formations wouldn't be bad if they were an elegant and well-thought-out addition to the game rather than just a way to tack more and more clunky poo poo on like characters in a cartoon hammering things up on a wall until it collapses under its own weight.
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May 21, 2015 02:13
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The Overlords hypothesized that the glut of formations was an adjustment to the community's rejection of Unbound. GW clearly wants players to take whatever models they like, and The Overlords concluded that the deluge of options was meant to get people used to the idea that they didn't have to stick to a particular format and to desensitize those peoples' opponents to not knowing what form enemy armies would take. I think that's certainly plausible. I wouldn't be surprised if 8th Edition doubles down on Unbound or at least a build-your-own-FOC system. I also fully expect GW to do away with point values at some point in the next 5-10 years, assuming 40k survives that long. It's the next logical step for them to take, given their priorities.
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May 21, 2015 02:53
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BULBASAUR posted:Speaking of formations and how confusing they make this dumb game: what happens when a new codex comes out? Do all the old formations get invalidated? I don't know. Does the Iyanden book still work?
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May 21, 2015 02:58
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BULBASAUR posted:Speaking of formations and how confusing they make this dumb game: what happens when a new codex comes out? Do all the old formations get invalidated? It's the kind of thing that can only be answered by GW so of course it hasn't. The general reaction is that Iyanden isn't allowed, mostly because it wasn't very good and GW doesn't sell it any more. People still argue that the AdLance and Geritanius still are valid. With the Big G there are people who say that you can make him a Baron and give him Sanctuary, giving him 3++ on two separate sides.
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May 21, 2015 03:08
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MasterSlowPoke posted:It's the kind of thing that can only be answered by GW so of course it hasn't. If Gerrantuis isn't allowed anymore I'm going to have one mad buddy of mine who just finished painting his IK up like him and has never played with it yet...
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May 21, 2015 04:05
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Isnt it a FW model, and as such completely independent from GW rules?
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May 21, 2015 04:31
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No, he was in a White Dwarf last year. I was going to print him up too because he looks so cool, but I can't get over the fluff that locks him into a single planet.
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May 21, 2015 04:38
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Sulecrist posted:I also fully expect GW to do away with point values at some point in the next 5-10 years, assuming 40k survives that long. It's the next logical step for them to take, given their priorities. They did that, it's called Apocalypse. It literally says that the points values on either side don't matter and don't need to be equal at all.
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May 21, 2015 04:40
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Sulecrist posted:The Overlords hypothesized that the glut of formations was an adjustment to the community's rejection of Unbound. GW clearly wants players to take whatever models they like, and The Overlords concluded that the deluge of options was meant to get people used to the idea that they didn't have to stick to a particular format and to desensitize those peoples' opponents to not knowing what form enemy armies would take. I disagree. Unbound is a brilliant crutch GW created to act as an easy 'out' for any balance things that upsets players. Don't like something we just did? No problem! Just play unbound! Have a conversation! Forge your narrative! raverrn posted:I don't know. Does the Iyanden book still work? gently caress if I know. Going by how things worked before the answer would be 'no'.  "Guess you'll have to have a conversation before your game!"
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May 21, 2015 04:49
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MasterSlowPoke posted:No, he was in a White Dwarf last year. I was going to print him up too because he looks so cool, but I can't get over the fluff that locks him into a single planet. He's also in the new IK codex, but of course his rules are no where to be found.
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May 21, 2015 05:00
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ghetto wormhole posted:They did that, it's called Apocalypse. It literally says that the points values on either side don't matter and don't need to be equal at all. I mean I think they may stop printing points values. BULBASAUR posted:I disagree. Unbound is a brilliant crutch GW created to act as an easy 'out' for any balance things that upsets players. Don't like something we just did? No problem! Just play unbound! Have a conversation! Forge your narrative! Which part are you disagreeing with, the Overlords' characterization of GW's reasons for adding formations? I agree with you about Unbound. Sulecrist fucked around with this message at 06:03 on May 21, 2015 |
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May 21, 2015 05:07
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