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ArmyOfMidgets posted:Yeah, art shift wasn't that bad but it was a definite downgrade. Oh, so the same specs as Witcher 3, then?
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May 15, 2015 01:33
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Well, according to Bleeding Cool (so skepticism is a healthy response), Renew Your Vows is apparently getting more advance orders than the third issue of Secret Wars proper-and that's not factoring in variant covers. I guess some people do want to read about a married Spider-Man after all.
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May 16, 2015 00:58
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Yvonmukluk posted:Well, according to Bleeding Cool (so skepticism is a healthy response), Renew Your Vows is apparently getting more advance orders than the third issue of Secret Wars proper-and that's not factoring in variant covers. Axel Alonso: "Hey, Dan's Spider-Man thing is selling boat-loads! Guess we should give him that record-breaking run on the book he wants and free reign to tell his stories!"
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May 16, 2015 01:01
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"It must be Dan I mean people can't just want the marriage back right?"
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May 16, 2015 01:23
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"Take notes: teasing the marriage means sales. Which means we can't have the marriage back because we wouldn't be able to tease it anymore."
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May 16, 2015 01:46
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Yvonmukluk posted:Well, according to Bleeding Cool (so skepticism is a healthy response), Renew Your Vows is apparently getting more advance orders than the third issue of Secret Wars proper-and that's not factoring in variant covers. Amazing Spider-Man is usually one of Marvel's best selling books, and isn't Renew Your Vows the replacement book? That doesn't really surprise me at all.
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May 17, 2015 22:45
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Slott follows the Jeph Loeb stategy of getting on a book that will sell regardless of creative team and using it to justify his staying on it by pointing to the strong sales.
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May 17, 2015 23:30
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ArmyOfMidgets posted:Expressively so, yes. Every interview about it has him going how you can't give people what they want or some cheap bullshit. Man what happened. I remember long ago reading about Spider-Man getting a sweet dune buggy and doing donuts on the side of the Daily Bugle and thinking "Yes, this is what I want from my comic books." And now we just have...this. I have a theory that when any creator gets to a certain level of popularity/success, they flip a coin. Heads they go directly up their own rear end, tails they hate everything they've ever done but are weirdly possessive of it. Very very rarely the coin lands on it's side and they are freed from the curse.
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May 18, 2015 21:34
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Comic fans flip that coin when they register on a message board.
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May 19, 2015 02:14
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Yinlock posted:Man what happened. I remember long ago reading about Spider-Man getting a sweet dune buggy and doing donuts on the side of the Daily Bugle and thinking "Yes, this is what I want from my comic books." And now we just have...this. John Byrne's coin is still being examined by scientist as it constantly oscillates to whatever would cause him to be the shittiest human being at the moment.
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May 19, 2015 02:19
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Mr. Maltose posted:John Byrne's coin is still being examined by scientist as it constantly oscillates to whatever would cause him to be the shittiest human being at the moment. So the team they dispatched did succeed in removing it from up his rear end?
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May 19, 2015 02:57
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The day John discovers the discrete endoscope will be a dark day.
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May 19, 2015 03:40
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Oh god, Dan Slott is going to give li'l Annie powers. Who wants to bet she's the new Spider-Girl in 616? Explains why Mayday & Anya have been booted out of prominence.
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May 20, 2015 14:12
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I don't see any Annie, just some begoggled girl of mystery.  (Yes, that's possibly the plan, but that cover is adorable)
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May 20, 2015 14:16
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Yvonmukluk posted:Who wants to bet she's the new Spider-Girl in 616? Explains why Mayday & Anya have been booted out of prominence. I dunno, the majority of people not caring about them seems to be the most likely reason.
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May 20, 2015 23:24
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Deadpool posted:I dunno, the majority of people not caring about them seems to be the most likely reason. You have spoken the forbidden words and doomed us all to drown in a sea of words posted about how important and interesting they both are.
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May 20, 2015 23:27
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I'm just glad Anya no longer has Panda Delgado's haircut.
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May 20, 2015 23:29
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Spider-verse was pretty fun and interesting. Art was kinda wonky at times, tho.
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May 20, 2015 23:38
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Yvonmukluk posted:Well, according to Bleeding Cool (so skepticism is a healthy response), Renew Your Vows is apparently getting more advance orders than the third issue of Secret Wars proper-and that's not factoring in variant covers. There something I just love about that.
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May 21, 2015 02:44
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Doctor Octopus decided he needed to take over a younger Parker to allow him more time to prove himself the SUPERIOR Spider-Person.
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May 21, 2015 04:34
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Edge & Christian posted:Doctor Octopus decided he needed to take over a younger Parker to allow him more time to prove himself the SUPERIOR Spider-Person. "Now that I am adorable, no one will dare attempt to stop me!"
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May 21, 2015 08:57
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Yvonmukluk posted:Oh god, Dan Slott is going to give li'l Annie powers. Oh no, not the cool Beetle! drat you Annie! drat you!
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May 21, 2015 09:53
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Deadpool posted:I dunno, the majority of people not caring about them seems to be the most likely reason. Why do comics writers feel the need to always scorch the loving earth if a character doesn't become an A-Lister out the gate? mr.capps posted:Oh no, not the cool Beetle! drat you Annie! drat you!
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May 21, 2015 13:13
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Yvonmukluk posted:They could have just not used them, rather than be dicks about it and throw them out like garbage. Where did they throw them out like garbage? I just read a book that came out yesterday with Anya in it. And Mayday was all over Spider-Verse. Also both characters had their chance and ultimately failed. Mayday in particular had more chances than almost any other character I can think of and ultimately people just didn't care about her. And how many times have they tried to shove Anya in a book and revamp her. The only time it even kind of worked was Avengers Academy. And I even like Anya but I recognize most people don't give a poo poo about her. We all have less popular characters we love that get shafted because nobody else cares about them. I don't whine every time a writer brings in Darkhawk and sticks him in a lovely role. I'm just glad someone remembered him besides me and enjoy seeing him. When a character that didn't connect is brought back you should always try to do something new with them. If you just bring them back the same as they were when nobody cared about them odds are nobody will care for them again and back to obscurity they go.
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May 21, 2015 13:34
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I've noticed this with a lot of books/characters/fandoms in comics recently, there is a very simple rule of "publishers should put out the books I like but not the books I don't like" which is a perfectly valid desire for every individual. It's when someone decides they don't like something, it can very easily turn into a weird Catch-22. (This applies only for comics declared bad, usually in about two sentences) First off, if you're bringing back a character someone else created, you'd better not! Why are you stealing your better's creation, and either loving IT ALL UP by altering something, or just doing a cheap hack ripoff of the original? Ugh! On the other hand, God help you if you create a new legacy character to fill a similar niche/name. Why are you ignoring the earlier, better character? Why are you giving a giant gently caress you to me, the guy who liked the other character better? Where do you get off, thinking you can create a new version of a character? And if you create a wholly new character... what sort of Mary Sue self-insert chump motherfucker are YOU? You have the gall to think your 'original character' has any place in this book? You think anyone wants to use your garbage ideas? Stick to writing things you already know work, champ. Except don't do that either. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 17:21 on May 21, 2015 |
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May 21, 2015 17:17
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That is absolutely true, and I've fallen prey myself once or twice. The stuff with the 'bringing back/legacy' stuff is that it's always going to be frustrating, even if as Deadpool pointed out, it's rational from a business sense, when a character or story or concept you liked a lot is brought back/replaced with something that's called the same name, but missing a lot of the things you liked.
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May 21, 2015 17:34
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Edge & Christian posted:I've noticed this with a lot of books/characters/fandoms in comics recently, there is a very simple rule of "publishers should put out the books I like but not the books I don't like" which is a perfectly valid desire for every individual. It's when someone decides they don't like something, it can very easily turn into a weird Catch-22. (This applies only for comics declared bad, usually in about two sentences) I think I should start with where I'm coming from. Basically, I believe any character can be a good character given the opportunity). So event comics where they kill off or otherwise mess with established characters just to get people rage buying is my personal bugbear. a) The issue isn't usually just using a character someone else created, it's doing it badly. Slott used Spider-Girl very badly-her story had essentially ended-any further appearances were a bonus. So bringing her back for Spider-Verse would have probably been enough for most fans. But instead a lot of the things that made her popular or distinctive in the first place got flushed away-the fact he took over from the creative team that'd been working on the character for pretty much her whole existence (and expressed disapproval with the new direction) didn't help, not to mention he just walked away and left it to other writers to deal with. That's not to say only the original creators can ever use a character-I mean, Marjorie Liu's X-23 is probably the best that character's ever been written, for instance-but if a character's only being used for event fodder and the writer's, say, getting the character's narrative voice wrong literally on the first page of writing them, I tend to object. b) I have no problem with legacies-Jaime Reyes is my Blue Beetle, for one thing. But while they did very much make Jaime his own character, they still acknowledge both Dan & Ted's legacies. If they just shove a new character into a role and shove their predecessor into either the fridge or limbo, that just raises the question of why you don't just make an original character (other than leeching off the name recognition). That's how we wound up with three Spider-Women. c)Again, it's doing things BADLY that's usually the sticking point. Silk, when first introduced by Slott, was a bad character-she was tied right into Spidey's origin, they had that creepy 'pheromones' thing that made her & Peter attracted to each other, she apparently had better powers than Peter, and she felt like she was being pushed very strongly at Peter's expense. But everything I've heard about when she got her own book is that she became a lot more likeable. If you're making an original character in an established book, they shouldn't overshadow the guy who the readers are showing up to see. I have no problem with using an old character, creating a legacy, or making a new one from whole cloth, just as long as it's done well. Gaz-L posted:That is absolutely true, and I've fallen prey myself once or twice. The stuff with the 'bringing back/legacy' stuff is that it's always going to be frustrating, even if as Deadpool pointed out, it's rational from a business sense, when a character or story or concept you liked a lot is brought back/replaced with something that's called the same name, but missing a lot of the things you liked.
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May 21, 2015 20:20
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So...Good comics good? Bad comics bad?
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May 21, 2015 22:40
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Die Laughing posted:So...Good comics good? Bad comics bad? I disagree and think you're a mean poophead dummy! 
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May 21, 2015 23:31
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Deadpool posted:I don't whine every time a writer brings in Darkhawk and sticks him in a lovely role. I'm just glad someone remembered him besides me and enjoy seeing him. I loved Darkhawk as a kid and I would love for him to get a new series.
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May 21, 2015 23:47
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I can imagine being a Speedball fan during Civil War probably felt unpleasant.
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May 21, 2015 23:57
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I like New Warriors in general and find Speedball to be a fun character, but I didn't really mind what they did to him at all.
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May 22, 2015 00:03
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I don't care about Speedball and what they did was just awful.
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May 22, 2015 00:05
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I really hate the Loners and what it did to those characters.
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May 22, 2015 00:21
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Lurdiak posted:I can imagine being a Speedball fan during Civil War probably felt unpleasant. It did, yes.
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May 22, 2015 00:31
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Yvonmukluk posted:Sine I'm probably the main offender here (sorry for that-I tend to get overly invested in C-and D-listers) I feel I should make some counterpoints. quote:a) The issue isn't usually just using a character someone else created, it's doing it badly. [quote[b) I have no problem with legacies-Jaime Reyes is my Blue Beetle, for one thing. But while they did very much make Jaime his own character, they still acknowledge both Dan & Ted's legacies. If they just shove a new character into a role and shove their predecessor into either the fridge or limbo, that just raises the question of why you don't just make an original character (other than leeching off the name recognition). That's how we wound up with three Spider-Women.[/quote]The only reason there's a Spider-Woman to begin with is because they had to shove a new character into the role of "Spider-Woman" and trademark it so CBS couldn't do a "Spider-Woman" TV show without paying Marvel anything. There were practically three different versions of Spider-Woman before they even settled on Jessica Drew in the status quo people are vaguely familiar with. Sometimes a character is shoved into a role because the corporation needs someone to have that name. It used to be that you could do that without worrying too much about how everything connected together like a James Burke special, but now it's basically expected. Jay Garrick and Barry Allen didn't really have anything to do with each other, Mar-Vell and Monica Rambeau came up with their names independently, and neither would have ever existed if someone didn't gently caress up and not renew Billy Batson's trademark. Obviously having problems with how these things are handled are fine, and honestly you weren't the main offender here. It's more the sort of reflexive/tautological "This is a bad story because it hosed up this character" "How?" "The character got hosed up by appearing in a bad story" "What made the story bad?" "Um, because it hosed up this character?" fastpost stuff that bothers me, combined with the absolute explosion of cavalierly tossing around Mary Sue and fanfiction for anything resembling new characters with the rationale of "well I hear this book sucked and had a new character in it so um, DONUT STEEL SELF-INSERT MARY SUE UGH" Again, no matter how much I disagree with someone, I think it's great for them to love/hate what they like so long as they just don't post "well no that sucks. because it sucks. you may think it doesn't suck, but it sucks. so therefore it sucks." Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 08:02 on May 22, 2015 |
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May 22, 2015 01:28
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Lurdiak posted:I really hate the Loners and what it did to those characters. Talk about the mixed bag of bringing back obscure characters. "Here's Julie Powers... and now she's Paris Hilton! Did you see that one coming???"
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May 22, 2015 02:55
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I'll never forgive Loners for what it did to Phil Urich, or Dan Slott for choosing not to just ignore it like everyone else.
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May 22, 2015 04:52
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Personally, I enjoyed The Loners, but I also never read anything with them before except when they showed up in Runaways.
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May 22, 2015 06:14
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Probably Magic posted:Talk about the mixed bag of bringing back obscure characters. "Here's Julie Powers... and now she's Paris Hilton! Did you see that one coming???" At least Avengers Academy made her likeable again  .
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May 22, 2015 11:58
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