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Khizan posted:Prince of Thorns is the most over-the-top grimdark poo poo that I've ever read, and I don't mean that in a good way. The whole setup with the 14 year old kid leading the band of psychotic rape-you-then-kill-you-then-rape-you-again road bandits managed to break my suspension of disbelief pretty early on(why do they put up with this poo poo again? Oh, it's because he's the unstoppable Chosen One force of nature I guess?) and becomes this relentless parade of misery. Yes, all that rape. So much so, that no one could possibly quote literally all the rape in the book, because that's far too much text. quote:I saw what they did to Mother, and how long it took. quote:The fat girl had a lot to say, just like her father. Screeched like a barn owl: hurt my ears with it. I liked the older one better. She was quiet enough. So quiet you'd give a twist here or there just to check she hadn't died of fright. Wait, poo poo, I did it right there. Now if you don't like the story, that's fine, it's not a happy, feel-good kind of story and Lawrence has been very clear that he never expected anyone to like Jorg because he was intentionally written to be unlikable. Interesting, perhaps, but unlikable. But don't make up poo poo that didn't happen to try to justify your opinion. But even then, a lot of what you said is factually wrong, which you'd know if you'd finished the book. Again, don't read stuff you don't enjoy, but at the same time, don't spout off like you know what you're talking about when you clearly haven't finished the first book, let alone the entire trilogy.
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May 27, 2015 03:34
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Selachian posted:hahahahahahahano. I sometimes feel like he actually wrote each book a hundred or so pages longer at the front and then just picked a point to lop it off and hit submit General Battuta posted:Thanks! I'm really excited to get it out there and see what people think. If you want to learn a little more about the book and the world it's set in you can click on this link to read more Agreeing that the first one sounds more like a book is want to read and/or would sell well. coyo7e posted:Bruce Sterling manages to make most of his cyberpunk feel like urban fantasy. And he's a way better writer than Gibson, who's as bland and midwestern as my grandma's boiled greens. Secondingr or thirding Feist. I like most of his stuff, particularly the two Magician: books and the stuff with Tal Hawkins. Also, there's a sword of truth TV series? If it can do the cool parts of the world without the ayn rand garbage I'd be interested in watching it. Also it's Kahlan. you can't prove I read them Nya Nya 
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May 27, 2015 03:49
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gorgeous in that corset thing!
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Kesper North posted:Yeah but he's from South Carolina, not Texas, and he's lived most of his life on the Canadian West Coast. Not midwestern at all! Khizan posted:Prince of Thorns is the most over-the-top grimdark poo poo that I've ever read, and I don't mean that in a good way. The whole setup with the 14 year old kid leading the band of psychotic rape-you-then-kill-you-then-rape-you-again road bandits managed to break my suspension of disbelief pretty early on(why do they put up with this poo poo again? Oh, it's because he's the unstoppable Chosen One force of nature I guess?) and becomes this relentless parade of misery.  I was talking about Brent Weeks , who wrote a good-sized trilogy about super powered assassins and then wrote another one about weird color spectrum-based magic immediately after, all in the last like 5 years, sorry. I spent a couple hours more than I should have doing yardwork in the sun earlier, so I may be a bit retarded right now.  But Gibson still sucks at narrating audiobooks.I do like Prince of Thorns etc but I kind of petered out and forgot about everything that wasn't the first book so v  v although I liked his worldbuilding.Kalenn Istarion posted:Also, there's a sword of truth TV series? If it can do the cool parts of the world without the ayn rand garbage I'd be interested in watching it. coyo7e fucked around with this message at 04:02 on May 27, 2015 |
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May 27, 2015 03:54
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Khizan posted:My problem is that it does all of this without containing even a single likable character. None of them aside from the titular Prince of Thorns are even memorable characters, and the only reason he's memorable is because he's the POV character. He's certainly not memorable because of his characterization or personality, because both of those things are pretty much non-existent outside of "look. look at how loving grimdark murdertastically raperrific i am. kill all the things." That's fine - gently caress XYZ of Thorns (I bailed out early in the series). However, Prince ofFools is hilarious and you should read it. http://www.amazon.com/Prince-Fools-Red-Queens-Book-ebook/dp/B00G3L1338/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8
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May 27, 2015 04:04
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ulmont posted:However, Prince ofFools is hilarious and you should read it. http://www.amazon.com/Prince-Fools-Red-Queens-Book-ebook/dp/B00G3L1338/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8 The Liar's Key comes out in a week, too  .
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May 27, 2015 04:05
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Kesper North posted:I just read my first short story of yours (TESTIMONY BEFORE AN EMERGENCY SESSION OF THE NAVAL CEPHALOPOD COMMAND, which I picked because how could I possibly not with that title). Loved it. I'm about to read another, but I have to ask if the narrator for TESTIMONY is some kind of alt-history Peter Watts. Hahaha, I hadn't thought of that but that's awesome. I occasionally 'correspond' with him (in that I send him fan mail and he tolerates me) so I'll have to tell him about that. andrew smash posted:Why does the UK cover cut out half your title? "The Traitor" is bland. The UK SF/F market is in trouble so I think they're trying to make all their books mainstream-friendly. That's all I know, it's 'for the market'.
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May 27, 2015 05:17
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ulmont posted:That's fine - gently caress XYZ of Thorns (I bailed out early in the series). I enjoyed the Thorns series but it is definitely a book where you have to accept at face value how over-the-top grimdark it is. Prince of Fools is a big step up and with a more interesting main character.
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May 27, 2015 05:37
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I kind of liked how Jorg grew up and learned some moral lessons as he progressed, to an extent (I recall when I was a kid/teen I was pretty much a sociopath, and only learned as I moved out of puberty that, well, being a good person is worth sublimating my immediate thoughts and desires.) I don't know that it's a series which needed a kind of weird romance arc, though. It probably would stand better on its own as a pure "fighty" SFF trilogy, those were certainly the best parts - a bit like The Left Hand of God series.
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May 27, 2015 05:42
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Prince of Thorns is interesting. I'm one of those in the camp of "hated it for being overly grimdark". People who defend it like to cite how the (particularly brutal) rape towards the beginning was the only example of it in the whole series (like the guy a few posts up did), but that's not even what did it in for me, though it certainly contributed. There was a scene early in the book that made me eventually put it down. I'm absolutely paraphrasing here because I barely remember it. The 13 year old leader of this mercenary band was sitting around listening to his men talk, and one of them said something that he thought was kinda dumb. It wasn't even a particularly stupid comment... but the kid decided to stab the guy and kill him in front of then other men. Then, he made some stupid "that's what you get" comment and told them all to get back to work. I think that was the scene that caused me to roll my eyes so hard it gave me a headache. It read as so over-the-top grimdark wish fulfillment "...and then I totally flipped out and stabbed him in the face and told everyone else "get the gently caress back to work!!!" and they all listened to me because I was so awesome" (not what the author wrote, but that's how I interpreted the scene). I kept thinking "why do these people take this kid's poo poo? If he were even 18 and they weren't battle-hardened mercenaries I MIGHT accept his dominance over them". It was so unbelievable it started to sour the story for me. It's such a minor thing to give up on a book for, but it was a perfect example of what I hated about it. The rape was just another example of how the author tried to beat you over the face with how miserable this setting was. I didn't last very long after that. That being said, I did read his follow-up "Prince of Fools" series (well, the first book) and I really liked it. I found THIS particular prince to be much more relate-able and enjoyable to read about.
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May 27, 2015 06:18
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Kalenn Istarion posted:I sometimes feel like he actually wrote each book a hundred or so pages longer at the front and then just picked a point to lop it off and hit submit It's more that he doesn't feel the need to explain diddly poo poo about Ascendants and the Deck of Dragons, and the Houses. You could replace every instance of "Lord of High House Dark" in the first two books with "is really magic and badass" and no information would be lost.
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May 27, 2015 07:05
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Drifter posted:Memory Sorrow and Thorn series was really good, too, by Tad Williams. Although Tad Williams gives Hobb a match in making his characters suffer. Tad Williams books are pretty similar in a way, not so many overpowered characters, but good world building. In contrast to other authors, he describes a new universe for each series. Khizan posted:Prince of Thorns is the most over-the-top grimdark poo poo that I've ever read, and I don't mean that in a good way. The whole setup with the 14 year old kid leading the band of psychotic rape-you-then-kill-you-then-rape-you-again road bandits managed to break my suspension of disbelief pretty early on(why do they put up with this poo poo again? Oh, it's because he's the unstoppable Chosen One force of nature I guess?) and becomes this relentless parade of misery. Have you read Bakker?  As for the Prince of Thorns, first one was very good, second one good, and the last was just miserable. Feels like a typical first good book, followed by a book contract for a trilogy.
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May 27, 2015 08:37
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General Emergency posted:I recently read Red Rising and was pretty disappointed. It felt like a bait and switch. After the nice and emotional opening the last three quarters of the book devolved in to Lord of the Flies in space. I enjoyed it but was bothered by the limited scope of the events. Is Golden Sun worth reading? Does the milieu grow to something that feels more significant? I agree Red Rising started really cool, I was thinking the book would be about a sci-fi communist revolution etc. Instead it turned into an okay, but adequate YA novel. I actually really liked Golden Son it goes back to the original plot and goes full on Space Opera / Crusader Kings in space and is pretty cool. Overall the setting feels like it is aping Dune with the medieval future and genetic engineering plot knockoff, but it was a entertaining read. Not the greatest sci-fi story, but pretty enjoyable with pretty good action pieces including some cool scenes with power armor and Iron Rain, (think ODST's from Halo's but hundreds of thousands of troops attacking and entire planet) Drunk Driver Dad posted:The Witcher books - They have a good rating on goodreads, but the series doesn't seem very long, although I'm not sure how big each book is. The Witcher is a solid series although it is incomplete in English atm... I would put it on par with the darkness in ASOIAF and if you liked the games it is a really good read that give backstory to them (although none is really needed) Belgariad is interesting and David Edding's is solid. My big critique is for most books he seems to re-use tropes/plot alot. I haven't read anything other than the Belgariad and Redemption of Athalus. Athalus is amusing at least to me because it takes place in a bronze age world in the time of myths essentially and is alright although a little boring. Belgariad is essentially default fantasy 101, it is incredibly solid albiet cliche. If I had to teach an English class what fantasy was I would just go over the Belgariad because it is accessible, well written and is familiar to anyone who has read or watched any fantasy ever. Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 10:05 on May 27, 2015 |
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May 27, 2015 09:47
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syphon posted:Prince of Thorns is interesting. I'm one of those in the camp of "hated it for being overly grimdark". People who defend it like to cite how the (particularly brutal) rape towards the beginning was the only example of it in the whole series (like the guy a few posts up did), but that's not even what did it in for me, though it certainly contributed. I quit reading shortly after the literary masterpiece of "I don't like to get angry. It makes me angry."
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May 27, 2015 10:49
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:I'm drawing a blank on the name as well, but is the psychic guy a former drug addict? yeah that's the one. I really wish I could remember the name, I'd like to read more of the series.
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May 27, 2015 11:50
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Strom Cuzewon posted:It's more that he doesn't feel the need to explain diddly poo poo about Ascendants and the Deck of Dragons, and the Houses. You could replace every instance of "Lord of High House Dark" in the first two books with "is really magic and badass" and no information would be lost. Wait, so this changes? That stuff (and let's add the Warrens) was all that kept me reading the first book, but I definitely came away feeling like there wasn't much substance. The Deck will just say whatever the author feels like foreshadowing. Magic can do whatever is cool or convenient, except some of the lovely Warrens that are tied to some particular theme like healing. Ascendants progress by moving through the pantheon of Houses, except when they don't bother or the pantheon changes. No?
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May 27, 2015 12:59
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Drifter posted:Sparhawk's Troll Gods were better than any silly blue and red orb bullshit. Word. The best part is when they describe the goddess Aphrael coming to them to ask for a favour using her usual method of persuasion. The result is a slightly worried and very confused God saying "She put her lips on our faces. It did not hurt."
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May 27, 2015 13:17
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McNerd posted:Wait, so this changes? That stuff (and let's add the Warrens) was all that kept me reading the first book, but I definitely came away feeling like there wasn't much substance. The Deck will just say whatever the author feels like foreshadowing. Magic can do whatever is cool or convenient, except some of the lovely Warrens that are tied to some particular theme like healing. Ascendants progress by moving through the pantheon of Houses, except when they don't bother or the pantheon changes. No? It might change. I gave up halfway through book 2. There was nothing to any of the characters, and the magic and history of the world was so poorly explained that it might as well have been white noise.
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May 27, 2015 13:34
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Dreqqus posted:yeah that's the one. I really wish I could remember the name, I'd like to read more of the series. Mindspace Investigations series by Alex Hughes.
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May 27, 2015 13:41
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Strom Cuzewon posted:It might change. I gave up halfway through book 2. There was nothing to any of the characters, and the magic and history of the world was so poorly explained that it might as well have been white noise.  
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May 27, 2015 14:47
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syphon posted:Prince of Thorns is interesting. I'm one of those in the camp of "hated it for being overly grimdark". People who defend it like to cite how the (particularly brutal) rape towards the beginning was the only example of it in the whole series (like the guy a few posts up did), but that's not even what did it in for me, though it certainly contributed. There was actually a reason Jorg stabbed that dude beyond purely being a prick. The series really improves throughout but yeah you are right about how the first part felt. I read it with preconceptions of what it wad going to be along the lines you found but was pleasantly surprised as I read more. Still haven't gotten around to Prince of Fools...
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May 27, 2015 14:59
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:Mindspace Investigations series by Alex Hughes. Thank you!
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May 27, 2015 15:02
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Yeah, Prince of thorns evolved in a very interesting way through the first two, book three was a real damp fart of an ending, though. Ugh.
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May 27, 2015 15:07
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Strom Cuzewon posted:It might change. I gave up halfway through book 2. There was nothing to any of the characters, and the magic and history of the world was so poorly explained that it might as well have been white noise. I read up to halfway through book 9 and agree completely, hah. People do stuff for no discernable reason, the ultimate badass from the first half of a book is killed by a single punch from the newer ultimate badass, there's this whole seemingly elaborate back story and world system that is actually just a super thin veneer because it is just the backdrop fluff for a D&D campaign ("no, he just totally isn't going to explain it to the reader, it's all really awesome and definitely exists though"), etc etc. There are like three good books in there, but they were the more locally-focused ones (the tiste back story one? Deadhouse Gates was also good) because the world building is a mess. "Ok, like what if this was a fantasy world, but we added the zerg, that'd be awesome! And skeleton armies and dragons and poo poo, elves will be there for sure, and they're all going to take turns fighting each other while metal plays in the background, like Goku meets GRRM, hell yeah" - literally the plot outline when he started writing
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May 27, 2015 15:10
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Strom Cuzewon posted:It might change. I gave up halfway through book 2. There was nothing to any of the characters, and the magic and history of the world was so poorly explained that it might as well have been white noise. Whether the series will work for a reader depends entirely upon two factors: The first is being able to deal with the absolute lack of any explanation about the world up front and a glacial pace of revelation through the series. The second is that the story being told across all the books is that of the world itself, and that the individual people named only matter for the actions they take that shape the world. I actually enjoyed the former, but just could not deal with the latter. Complicating this is that the first book is just terrible, which makes just trying out the series a lot harder, since it isn't really possible to know if you will like it until several hundred pages in.
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May 27, 2015 15:23
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Azathoth posted:I thought the biggest problem with Redshirts was that the explanation of the mystery was so much less interesting than the mystery itself. Everything from the reveal onwards was just profoundly disappointing. I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt this. Redshirts reminded me a lot of Ready Player One in that way; an interesting setup and premise ruined by a glut of wink-wink nudge-nudge cultural references and nerdy circle-jerking, capped off with a bizarre third act: The kid in RPO uses his button-mashing MMO skills to somehow turn into a l337 haxx0r, and Redshirts goes so meta that it disappears up it's own rear end in a top hat. Beef Hardcheese fucked around with this message at 15:45 on May 27, 2015 |
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May 27, 2015 15:40
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Everyone should give Malazan a try because it is incredible. I agree with the point it is more about the world, but the world is great. It is amazing how much you can miss while reading it but catch it on subsequent readings.
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May 27, 2015 15:45
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May 27, 2015 15:49
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May 27, 2015 16:00
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Azathoth posted:I got a part way through book 5, I think, and it hadn't really gotten much better by the time I gave up. The world and magic were becoming clearer, but he was still introducing new characters and I just ran out of steam to keep going. I made it through book 6 and petered out. I agree that the main problem with the series is that it's more the story of the world as a whole, rather than the story of one thing that's happening in the world, and it keeps jumping you to completely different settings and groups of characters and you have to change your focus constantly. Even if you're really invested in the story of one book, the next book might start on a completely separate continent with brand new characters, cultures and even new races that you haven't encountered before and you have to put aside the characters and places you've become invested in and start on what seems like a completely separate story that will only come together with previous characters and stories three or four books from now. I really liked each book as I read it, but as I got through each book, it became harder to get interested in picking up the next one. The books are so long and it's really hard to jump back into the story if any time has passed between reading each book since there are so many characters and locations and some characters disappear for thousands of pages so that depending on how long you pause between each book it could have been months or even a year since you last read about a particular character. I think I would like it more if I could just read the series straight through, but it's so loving long that I would have to read nothing else for a year in order to do that, and they keep farting out new books left and right even though the main series has ended. That said, I loved Deadhouse Gates and Memories of Ice and I would easily recommend those two books as standalones, and will probably read them again at some point.
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May 27, 2015 20:51
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I just feel sorry for the guy who quit halfway through book 2 because that has one of the most moving moments I've ever read in fantasy, Coltaine's Fall. Yeah, Malazan can be hard to read sometimes, but IMO it's very much worth it.
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May 27, 2015 21:05
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Jack2142 posted:I agree Red Rising started really cool, I was thinking the book would be about a sci-fi communist revolution etc. Instead it turned into an okay, but adequate YA novel. I actually really liked Golden Son it goes back to the original plot and goes full on Space Opera / Crusader Kings in space and is pretty cool. Overall the setting feels like it is aping Dune with the medieval future and genetic engineering plot knockoff, but it was a entertaining read. Thanks for the help guys. I copied most of the suggestions down for future reference, and went ahead and started with The Belgariad last night. I only got about 60 or so pages in, and while so far it seems maybe a tad boring, its still enjoyable and I get that feeling where I'm able to easily immerse myself into the world of whatever book I'm reading. Something about that is really comforting for before bedtime reading for me. It actually really reminds me of how Wheel of Time started.
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May 27, 2015 21:05
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If you really enjoy comforting quest fantasy I'm quite liking Ilana Myer's Last Song Before Night. Of course we're on the same Tor '15 team so I'm highly biased 
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May 27, 2015 21:28
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Neurosis posted:There was actually a reason Jorg stabbed that dude beyond purely being a prick. The series really improves throughout but yeah you are right about how the first part felt. I read it with preconceptions of what it wad going to be along the lines you found but was pleasantly surprised as I read more. Still haven't gotten around to Prince of Fools... The mercs themselves are like half feral dogs, and he has to keep them in line by being the alpha. And as I've replied before to the "getting angry makes me angry" thing being the stupidest thing you've ever heard, it's actually alluding to the fact that Jorg's emotions are not always his own, and often not within his control. He was poisoned spiritually, by the thorns.
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May 27, 2015 21:59
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Currently reading: Seveneves. Hannu Rajenami Collected Fiction. The Promise of Blood. And listening to The Magicians. Oh god I'm going to die.
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May 28, 2015 02:02
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Nevvy Z posted:And listening to The Magicians. Oh god I'm going to die. I love that audiobook. Best narration I've ever heard.
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May 28, 2015 02:12
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anilEhilated posted:I just feel sorry for the guy who quit halfway through book 2 because that has one of the most moving moments I've ever read in fantasy, Coltaine's Fall. Yeah, Malazan can be hard to read sometimes, but IMO it's very much worth it. Unfortunately, that scene also shows the flaws of Malazan's cast-of-thousands approach. By the end of Deadhouse Gates, you should be hating the hell out of Mallick Rel and Korbolo Dom and hoping to see them get theirs ... and then they pretty much disappear from the story, and you actually have to read the Esslemont books to find out where they end up.
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May 28, 2015 05:04
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Nevvy Z posted:Currently reading: Seveneves. Hannu Rajenami Collected Fiction. The Promise of Blood. The rest of that novel was up and down and everybody has heard that discussion before however, does anyone have any recommendations for similar style prose fiction or fantasy? I think Stardust gave me a bit of the same vibe although it was more folksy and les s I don't know... Detached? I can't elaborate on the feeling the Kadath gives me, in words right now.
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May 28, 2015 06:31
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Azathoth posted:Whether the series will work for a reader depends entirely upon two factors: A pretty good summary of why I like the Malazan series so much and why others have problems with it. As for the first book, it becomes much better after finishing the first series as well as Forge of Darkness, since there are so many things introduced there that isn't explained until the end of the series.
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May 28, 2015 07:19
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Selachian posted:Unfortunately, that scene also shows the flaws of Malazan's cast-of-thousands approach. By the end of Deadhouse Gates, you should be hating the hell out of Mallick Rel and Korbolo Dom and hoping to see them get theirs ... and then they pretty much disappear from the story, and you actually have to read the Esslemont books to find out where they end up. I also honestly wouldn't call Gardens of the Moon terrible. Yeah, it's a lot less polished and nowhere near the quality level of the other ones but it's still easily on the level of most "good" fantasy out there and I'd take it over Rothfuss or Sanderson any day.
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May 28, 2015 09:25
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The new Expanse novel (Nemesis Games) is out in Amazon.
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May 28, 2015 10:23
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