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awesmoe posted:Or even stop talking about boring war poo poo in the urban fantasy thread, that's an option too Oh i dont know, I'd pay to watch a summer disaster movie which can be boiled down to rear end in a top hat WIZARDS vs rear end in a top hat GENERALS. builds character posted:A-10's Dont stop.  But do [timg] your poo poo man, jesus. 
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May 28, 2015 11:45
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So I finally read the first Sandman Slim book, and you guys weren't kidding when you said it was retarded fun. The "I'm so punk my punks are punked... punk" monologues got a little annoying but otherwise it was a fun read. Quality-wise do they stay about the same, improve or poo poo the bed?
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May 28, 2015 15:44
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I stopped after book three. It was pretty bad. But someone up thread said that one is by far the worst in the series. I enjoyed books one and two quite a bit.
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May 28, 2015 15:53
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OptimusWang posted:So I finally read the first Sandman Slim book, and you guys weren't kidding when you said it was retarded fun. The "I'm so punk my punks are punked... punk" monologues got a little annoying but otherwise it was a fun read. Quality-wise do they stay about the same, improve or poo poo the bed? Sandman Slim bugs me because the guy literally breaks out of Tartarus, the place no creature has ever had the opportunity to break out of in that cosmology and which is the place that actually destroys souls to fuel the rest of Creation and then uses one of the aspects of God as bait to destroy The Old Ones. Yeah, no, the A-10 is impressive but I'm pretty sure that 1.5" thick armor is less effective than the 4" thick armor on a Tiger.
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May 28, 2015 16:10
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Wade Wilson posted:Sandman Slim bugs me because the guy literally breaks out of Tartarus, the place no creature has ever had the opportunity to break out of in that cosmology and which is the place that actually destroys souls to fuel the rest of Creation and then uses one of the aspects of God as bait to destroy The Old Ones. lol what? I've only read the first book 
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May 28, 2015 16:20
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If you want to talk about power creep, you talk about Sandman Slim.
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May 28, 2015 18:13
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Wade Wilson posted:If you want to talk about power creep, you talk about Sandman Slim. He makes the brothers on that Supernatural show look like chumps. if Harry Dresden were an author he'd self insert as Sandman Slim.
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May 28, 2015 19:03
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Is it really power creep though? It's been a little while since I read them but I can't recall him getting more powerful or new powers as the books go on, he was that bad rear end from the start.
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May 28, 2015 19:07
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Clinton1011 posted:Is it really power creep though? It's been a little while since I read them but I can't recall him getting more powerful or new powers as the books go on, he was that bad rear end from the start. He literally becomes Lucifer and gains all that power, quits the job, splits into two separate entities, gains the ability to manifest an Angelic gladius, rejoins into a single entity again, and every time he takes a beating he comes back stronger for it. If that isn't power creep from simply being a guy that survived in Hell by learning blood magic and gaining the ability to escape by collecting a couple artifacts I don't know what is.
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May 28, 2015 19:16
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Wade Wilson posted:He literally becomes Lucifer and gains all that power, quits the job, splits into two separate entities, gains the ability to manifest an Angelic gladius, rejoins into a single entity again, and every time he takes a beating he comes back stronger for it. He didn't gain any powers when he became lucifer though only responsibilities, unless I am forgetting something. As for the gladius, there you are right, that thing did pump up his power level quit a bit. But he does lose that when his angel half split from him. What book did he first discover he could do that? He being half angel is also what let him survive hell, every time something would have killed him it just made him immune to it in the future so he left hell in the first book as bad rear end since he was getting nearly killed every day for 10 years straight I
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May 28, 2015 19:28
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Clinton1011 posted:He didn't gain any powers when he became lucifer though only responsibilities, unless I am forgetting something. As for the gladius, there you are right, that thing did pump up his power level quit a bit. But he does lose that when his angel half split from him. What book did he first discover he could do that? When he got the job he got the dark powers that Samael gave up to go back to Heaven. They were tied to the suit of armor he was wearing that Sandman Slim put on and kept wearing from then on out.
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May 28, 2015 21:02
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builds character posted:I don't care which of Peter or Harry you like better, but don't for a goddamn second pretend that this majestic piece of vanilla human ingenuity isn't a thing that could happen. Humans are actually pretty wimpy, all of humanity combined doesn't even have the power to cause global warming, but just a small imbalance in the power of Winter/Summer does.
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May 28, 2015 21:47
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That's one thing I dislike about a lot of fantasy/urban fantasy/YA stories: historically, everyone who made a difference in the world (good or bad) and everything that happens to the world (natural disasters, etc) were all done by magic or gods or some poo poo. Between that and the "congrats, you are the chosen one; no one would have had a chance but you, since you were born this way not because of your choices" many of them hinge upon, it feels way too deterministic. I've only read the first three London books, but I like that they didn't do that (well, at least the latter) with Peter. Why can't George Washington just be George Washington, a normal product of the world? Same with Hitler, Jesus of Nazareth, and tsunamis. It really feels more like a crutch than a novelty.
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May 28, 2015 22:15
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mastajake posted:Same with Hitler, Jesus of Nazareth, and tsunamis. It really feels more like a crutch than a novelty. Hitler was wessen. WWII and the rise of the Nazi party was due to the corrupting influence of two ancient greek coins.
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May 28, 2015 22:35
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mastajake posted:That's one thing I dislike about a lot of fantasy/urban fantasy/YA stories: historically, everyone who made a difference in the world (good or bad) and everything that happens to the world (natural disasters, etc) were all done by magic or gods or some poo poo. Between that and the "congrats, you are the chosen one; no one would have had a chance but you, since you were born this way not because of your choices" many of them hinge upon, it feels way too deterministic. It's really easy to insert a known figure into a story. It's much easier than creating one out of whole cloth. Let's take Abraham Lincoln as an example. When you use Abe, you automatically know: -What he looks like, especially that he's tall. -That he has a reputation for honesty. -That he was a famous president in a divisive time. -Killed by an assassin. This gives you a huge number of plot hooks and fun things to explore with minimal effort. For example, why isn't he dead? Was his assassination a coverup for something? Could the assassin be part of a group that exists to this day? Maybe they were in on Kennedy too! Whoa! It's very easy to twist known elements, far more more so than creating a guy out of whole cloth. It's often done very lazily. But it's effective.
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May 28, 2015 22:53
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The Fool posted:Hitler was wessen. WWII and the rise of the Nazi party was due to the corrupting influence of two ancient greek coins. This is the Dresden Files / UF thread. The Grimm And it was actually three coins.
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May 28, 2015 22:53
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mastajake posted:That's one thing I dislike about a lot of fantasy/urban fantasy/YA stories: historically, everyone who made a difference in the world (good or bad) and everything that happens to the world (natural disasters, etc) were all done by magic or gods or some poo poo. Between that and the "congrats, you are the chosen one; no one would have had a chance but you, since you were born this way not because of your choices" many of them hinge upon, it feels way too deterministic. There's a pretty significant reason Jesus is associated with supernatural elements, to be honest!
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May 28, 2015 22:59
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ImpAtom posted:There's a pretty significant reason Jesus is associated with supernatural elements, to be honest! Haha you've got me there.
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May 28, 2015 23:04
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MildShow posted:This is the Dresden Files / UF thread. The Grimm If Grimm isn't Urban Fantasy, then I don't know what the gently caress. And last time I looked at that thread, it was just a bunch of TV grognards complaining about TV being TV.
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May 28, 2015 23:31
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ImpAtom posted:There's a pretty significant reason Jesus is associated with supernatural elements, to be honest! mastajake posted:Haha you've got me there. Actually, I think it would be pretty neat if it turned out that the man was just a normal dude instead of, you know, the Son of God and people just built him up over the years.
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May 28, 2015 23:34
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The Fool posted:If Grimm isn't Urban Fantasy, then I don't know what the gently caress. And last time I looked at that thread, it was just a bunch of TV grognards complaining about TV being TV. Yes. That's why we quarantined discussion in that thread. Let's not let it leak out. You might be reasonable, but the guy who comes along to argue with you about some finicky point of order on the tv show's interpretation won't be. Thunderfinger posted:Actually, I think it would be pretty neat if it turned out that the man was just a normal dude instead of, you know, the Son of God and people just built him up over the years. This is probably fairly close to ~actual history~ so it's been done (incredibly well in some cases, but not to derail). I want to read more norse inspired UF. Anyone have a suggestion?
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May 28, 2015 23:37
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Anias posted:I want to read more norse inspired UF. Anyone have a suggestion? I assume you've read American Gods.
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May 28, 2015 23:59
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mastajake posted:That's one thing I dislike about a lot of fantasy/urban fantasy/YA stories: historically, everyone who made a difference in the world (good or bad) and everything that happens to the world (natural disasters, etc) were all done by magic or gods or some poo poo. Between that and the "congrats, you are the chosen one; no one would have had a chance but you, since you were born this way not because of your choices" many of them hinge upon, it feels way too deterministic. ConfusedUs posted:It's really easy to insert a known figure into a story. It's much easier than creating one out of whole cloth. Let's take Abraham Lincoln as an example.
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May 29, 2015 00:56
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darthbob88 posted:It's also, at least in World of Darkness-types, an easy way to establish the power/alignment/scale of <fantastic element du jour>. If you say that Hitler was an evil vampire, and that Allied werewolves defeated him in his bunker under Berlin, that establishes that a) vampires are evil and powerful, and 2) werewolves are good and fight them. If you say that one tsunami or another was the result of Cthulhu idly stirring in his sleep, that says that Cthulhu exists and we want him to stay asleep. I suppose it's the same reason most clubs make such a big deal about celebrities being members; it's good for establishing the character of the club, and it creates a certain amount of prestige in being a member. Absolutely. I was only scratching the surface with the Honest Abe thing above. Your example is merely the next layer down. Taken to its ultimate conclusion, you can build an entire alternate world complete with factions, history, major/minor characters, and so on. This world can be very, very different from our own. You get all this with minimal effort. It's no surprise that it's a common trope. Alternate History is literally an entire genre with this as its foundation.
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May 29, 2015 01:01
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For me at least Skin Game is an utterly forgettable book. Had to read this thread to remember most of the plot. I just want to see some real character growth on Dresden, because in my mind he hasn't changed that much throughout the series. On other urban fantasy series: I've recently read the Matthew Swift books. While they can be confusing at times, the world-building is memorable.
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May 29, 2015 01:15
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Kellanved posted:For me at least Skin Game is an utterly forgettable book. Had to read this thread to remember most of the plot. I just want to see some real character growth on Dresden, because in my mind he hasn't changed that much throughout the series. Dresden has had some very significant character development. Most of it happens in the Changes/Ghost Story/Cold Days "trilogy." While a lot of things happen in Skin Game, they are pretty much happening around Dresden, and don't affect him directly.
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May 29, 2015 01:51
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Ghost Story in particular was basically "Harry Dresden Has Character Development: The Novel"
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May 29, 2015 03:52
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Kellanved posted:For me at least Skin Game is an utterly forgettable book. Had to read this thread to remember most of the plot. I just want to see some real character growth on Dresden, because in my mind he hasn't changed that much throughout the series. The Matthew Swift series is seriously entertaining. Great world building, but I like the spin-off series a bit better, actually. Swift is more original, better written, but the urban shaman thing is just more fun. Love those books.
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Jun 1, 2015 12:35
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Got linked to this neat T-Shirt. https://www.teepublic.com/show/207373-house-dresden-stars-and-stones?newly_uploaded=true
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Jun 1, 2015 14:15
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tithin posted:Got linked to this neat T-Shirt. It's cool but it's pretty close to my "would be better as a poster" rule.
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Jun 1, 2015 16:20
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So I got to meet Paul Cornell (London Falling series) at Phoenix comicon (I didn't even know he would be there and was completely surprised to see him) and after the panels I got to talk to him a bit about books and things, (we joked about Aaronovitch, who he's friends with) he's really nice and a little shy and you would never be able to tell he writes what is definitely the closest UF series to pure horror that I've read. I'm going to read his books in his voice in my head from now on. But I want to bring the thread's attention to someone I haven't seen mentioned, M.L. Brennan- because she was the most bubbly excited person on the author panels and her Generation V novels are a really fun read (Vampires but as if they were biological predators instead of transformed humans, so they would naturally have longer lifespans than their prey etc, but they aren't immortal.) The protagonist is a very young vampire who is trying to put off growing out of his humanity as long as possible and the supporting characters are funny and memorable. I really love reluctant monsters as characters, and Fortitude is about as reluctant as it gets but it's not primarily about the physical stuff, (there is some urge-denial but it's more about his lifestyle than heat of the moment NEEDS.) The main worry he has is about the mental stuff, where he doesn't want to stop caring about people and turn cold and indifferent to suffering like his older family members. Brennan was so much fun in person that I actually picked up her book based on her spoken description without even reading the back cover and I'm really glad I did. (Aside, Sandman Slim's author was also there but he was kind of... standoffish? I didn't feel like I could just run up and say hi to him.)
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Jun 1, 2015 21:56
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mistaya posted:But I want to bring the thread's attention to someone I haven't seen mentioned, M.L. Brennan- because she was the most bubbly excited person on the author panels and her Generation V novels are a really fun read (Vampires but as if they were biological predators instead of transformed humans, so they would naturally have longer lifespans than their prey etc, but they aren't immortal.) The protagonist is a very young vampire who is trying to put off growing out of his humanity as long as possible and the supporting characters are funny and memorable. I really love reluctant monsters as characters, and Fortitude is about as reluctant as it gets but it's not primarily about the physical stuff, (there is some urge-denial but it's more about his lifestyle than heat of the moment NEEDS.) The main worry he has is about the mental stuff, where he doesn't want to stop caring about people and turn cold and indifferent to suffering like his older family members. The Generation V novels are super, super fun- I really didn't expect to like them, but, they're an interesting take on vampires with some very likable characters.
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Jun 1, 2015 23:31
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I also really liked Generation V and am looking forward to the next one.
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Jun 2, 2015 00:57
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mistaya posted:So I got to meet Paul Cornell (London Falling series) at Phoenix comicon (I didn't even know he would be there and was completely surprised to see him) and after the panels I got to talk to him a bit about books and things, (we joked about Aaronovitch, who he's friends with) he's really nice and a little shy and you would never be able to tell he writes what is definitely the closest UF series to pure horror that I've read. I'm going to read his books in his voice in my head from now on. I hated generation v. Good idea, just though the writing was terrible. Unreadable. I hated
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Jun 2, 2015 01:17
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ConfusedUs posted:Most Urban Fantasy is garbage, where the main (sexy!) character fucks her way through the legions of hell. Can anyone please recommend stuff like this? I'd like to gain a better understanding of the current state of the genre as a whole. Preferably garbage that is more widely known (to fans of the genre).
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Jun 3, 2015 13:36
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fruit loop posted:Can anyone please recommend stuff like this? I'd like to gain a better understanding of the current state of the genre as a whole. Preferably garbage that is more widely known (to fans of the genre). Charlene Harris. Laurell k Hamilton. In each case, the first one or two in series are OK, but by book three they're crazy. [
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Jun 3, 2015 14:06
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fruit loop posted:Can anyone please recommend stuff like this? I'd like to gain a better understanding of the current state of the genre as a whole. Preferably garbage that is more widely known (to fans of the genre). Anything that uses the word 'Alpha' to describe the male romantic love interest on the back of the book summary.
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Jun 3, 2015 14:46
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Drifter posted:Anything that uses the word 'Alpha' to describe the male romantic love interest on the back of the book summary. Nah, the Patricia Briggs stories aren't in that genre, and they deal with pack politics. They do have some uncomfortably bad sex, but the main female characters are monogamous, we just have to put up with the periodic, "he's so sexy because..." Crap.
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Jun 3, 2015 14:55
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torgeaux posted:Nah, the Patricia Briggs stories aren't in that genre, and they deal with pack politics. They do have some uncomfortably bad sex, but the main female characters are monogamous, we just have to put up with the periodic, "he's so sexy because..." Crap. gently caress, I forgot about Mercy Thompson...I actually kinda enjoy that one. And Illona Andrews' Kate Daniels' series. I really like that one, too. They are probably the only exception to the Alpha rule. I read the Kitty Norville books for a while, but they quickly reduce to the same weird as hell werewolf 'alpha' tropes that are so so bad. I've had Chicagoland Vampires by Chloe Neil on my to be read list for a few years now; does it stand out above the muddy UF/PR waters at all? I mostly enjoyed the [urlr=http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7823038-grave-witch]Alex Craft[/url] books as well, for what they are. It's been a while since I've been back in the UF genre. Drifter fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Jun 3, 2015 |
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Jun 3, 2015 16:03
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torgeaux posted:Nah, the Patricia Briggs stories aren't in that genre, and they deal with pack politics. They do have some uncomfortably bad sex, but the main female characters are monogamous, we just have to put up with the periodic, "he's so sexy because..." Crap. My wife once described the Patricia Briggs books as 'a string of contrived stories to get them from one orgy in the werewolf bar to the next,' and she loves them. She doesn't like Dresden/Rivers of London/any UF that isn't a trashy romance novel, so take that as you will.
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