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Fungah! posted:do we know if dupes are allowed? "Yes" is what we're guessing because of the question mark in the zerker risk description on the help page. It's the same as the Chaos mode symbol. quote:This is the only way edit: It's cool that Chaos will be front-loaded though to prevent too much freelancing. Chaos for best mode.
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Jun 3, 2015 04:41
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in the Fiesta to end up with a duplicate job.
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Augus posted:EDIT: Okay, seeing the overwhelming opinion against natural run, I guess you guys know more about the game balance than I do. Didn't realize reregistering was a thing either To be less hyperbolic about it, the game was designed from the ground up to have you mixing and matching job abilities to create fun combos. And while it's perfectly possible to beat the game without doing so, the mix and matching is where a lot of the fun and planning comes in. And what's with all this Freelancer hate? Between that katana in Castle Tycoon, the Ribbon from Karnak, and the Heal Staff, Freelancers have more fun options in world 1 than most other jobs. 
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Jun 3, 2015 04:47
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I did a Natural No-750 run back in 2013, and it took me roughly 24 hours to get to Neo. And that's with skipping every dungeon in World 3. It's just a tedious, unfun slog.
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Jun 3, 2015 04:54
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Classic is way more fun than a regular natural because your "bad" jobs are monk, red mage, and thief, !steal/!mug are fantastic, and monks are good damage dealers at least in world 1. If you roll a red mage without a white mage you have a semi-reliable healer and someone good at damage for part of the game. You also have multiple chances of rolling some of the best classes in the game and knights, and almost all the classic jobs are jobs from FF1, so they're fairly self-sufficient besides red mage. Regular natural sucks because natural geomancers exist. Hope you like fighting Sol Cannon with a useless class. Basically limiting your classes makes it more fun somehow.
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Jun 3, 2015 05:05
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Why You Shouldn't Do A Natural Run: In a broad sense, FFV is designed that a class is both a stable to put an ability on and a provider of abilities. In a Natural game, then, a class can only provide abilities to itself. Let's list the classes that provide abilities that would then be equipped by said class. Wind Crystal: White Mage (MP+10%), Black Mage (MP+30%), Blue Mage (!Check, !Scan), Monk (!Focus, !Chakra, HP+10%/20%/30%), Thief (!Flee, !Mug), Knight (Double Grip) Water Crystal: Summoner (!Conjure), Red Mage (!Dualcast) Fire Crystal: Ninja (!Smoke, !Image), Beastmaster (!Control, !Calm), Ranger (!Animals, !Rapid Fire), Bard (!Hide) Earth Crystal: Dancer (!Flirt), Dragoon (!Lancet), Samurai (!Mineuchi, !Iainuki), Chemist (!Mix, !Recover, !Revive) Any abilities not mentioned do not provide anything equipped onto the providing job, or I just forgot it. Any class not mentioned (Time Mage, Mystic Knight, Berserker, Geomancer) simply does not learn anything through job leveling that can't be done at base. Now, of those, which of those provides any sort of actually interesting decisions? If you said Chemist, have a cookie. And that's basically it. Every other job simply does not have an interesting decision on what to use for its secondary slot. You will always know what will be best in a given situation. Granted, with Chemist, !Mix is usually superior, but if you're grinding/lookup table averse or are just sick of !Mixing everything, then there's a legitimate case to be made for the other two abilities. So, your decision space and your power is drastically cut. Now, to be fair, there are some jobs that are simply That Good on their own that you'd never really mix and match stuff anyway. The primary Mage classes would never actually use a secondary to be more powerful, just to get a little bit of versatility. And, well, they've already got eighteen options at endgame anyway, so they're fine. It's the physical classes that hurt for trying out different weapons or commands. Finally, the hybrid jobs (in short, light armor wearing classes that aren't mages) lose big time, as their primary reason for existing is to be a Bad Job To Be In but give Awesome Abilities. A Natural Game hits them really hard. It's no coincidence that the hybrid jobs are usually the hardest ones to Fiesta with, and a Natural run makes this problem ten times worse. So yeah, don't do a Natural run unless you're actively interested in being severely limited in fun and power for the sake of difficulty, not because it's an interesting twist on its own.
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Jun 3, 2015 05:08
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And it's not even "difficulty" really, it's tedium.
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Jun 3, 2015 05:17
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Kyrosiris posted:And it's not even "difficulty" really, it's tedium. It's difficulty in the FFV sense, which is to say you have to best utilize your tools, and having fewer tools means you might have to add a few hundred HP in order to not die.
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Jun 3, 2015 05:25
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To be completely fair, some of those Natural boosts aren't too bad. Knights get decent mileage out of Double Grip, Thieves can use !Mug for Chicken Knifing, and the Fire jobs that aren't Bard get some decent abilities. But there's also really no saving some jobs. I speak from experience when I say that !Dualcast doesn't make Natural Red Mage any good. When you're stuck with -ra level spells, a second casting is like trying to put out a fire by spitting on it twice. Though I'll also admit that the status spells at least came in handy (most of the normal monsters in the Void were vulnerable to at least one of the statuses Red could inflict, and Dualcasts gave the option to either double your success rate or incapacitate two enemy types at once). Still, never again.
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Jun 3, 2015 05:26
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I know I'm kinda late to this one, but: Does anybody else notice that they aren't even remotely trying to hide that Faris is a woman?
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Jun 3, 2015 05:42
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Sordas Volantyr posted:Does anybody else notice that they aren't even remotely trying to hide that Faris is a woman? I think there was some discussion about it last year. But yeah, it really sticks out.
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Jun 3, 2015 05:47
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Bufuman posted:But there's also really no saving some jobs. I speak from experience when I say that !Dualcast doesn't make Natural Red Mage any good. When you're stuck with -ra level spells, a second casting is like trying to put out a fire by spitting on it twice. Aren't -aga level spells literally 4x as good as -ara spells? I wish Red Mages had staying power in any game ever, they're so cool 
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Jun 3, 2015 05:49
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Kinda clashes with her beautiful androgynous Amano artwork. Man, can you imagine a next-gen game with Amano design?
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Jun 3, 2015 05:49
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Alabaster White posted:Aren't -aga level spells literally 4x as good as -ara spells? I wish Red Mages had staying power in any game ever, they're so cool Red Mages are amazing all the way through FFXII IZJS... but then they don't get the awesome hat, so it's a wash.
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Jun 3, 2015 05:57
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Alabaster White posted:Aren't -aga level spells literally 4x as good as -ara spells? I wish Red Mages had staying power in any game ever, they're so cool About 3.5x but yeah. Even Bio is more than double (and ignores magic defense, and applies a DoT that works on literally everything).
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Jun 3, 2015 05:59
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Augus posted:EDIT: Okay, seeing the overwhelming opinion against natural run, I guess you guys know more about the game balance than I do. Didn't realize reregistering was a thing either So, I'll give my version which should be a little shorter. If you're looking to simply make the game more difficult then roll natural. Just realize that it's not the same as starting new run of an action game on hard. It's a JRPG and the answer to any problem can pretty much always be "go grind more levels." And when you remove options via natural, that ends up being the only answer more often. I think pretty much everyone here is about the challenge of speed running with only 4 randomly chosen jobs. Good teams just mean you get to show off.
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Jun 3, 2015 06:21
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Evil Fluffy posted:You fucker I'm probably never going to unsee this, just like how I'll forever see Shadow's sprite as wearing big orange goggles. I'm glad I'm not the only one who still does this. I also to this day can't help but see Agahnim's tiara in LttP as his face with an open mouth.
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Jun 3, 2015 06:36
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Alabaster White posted:Aren't -aga level spells literally 4x as good as -ara spells? I wish Red Mages had staying power in any game ever, they're so cool IIRC they were valuable for the longest time in FFXI, primarily because of Refresh, one of the best buffs in the game (restores a bit of MP every few seconds, making it a godsend for casters like White and Black Mage). Since the level required for Refresh was 41, you couldn't use RDM as a sub and keep refresh, because subjobs only get half the level of your current prime job, and the max level was 75 for years and years. Eventually, however, they gave in and upped the level cap to the usual 99, so I'm guessing RDMs are subjob fodder (I wouldn't exactly know, I haven't actually played the game in years, and didn't even get very far; most of my info about high-level play comes from the now-defunct [GM]Dave's blog).
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Jun 3, 2015 06:38
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khy posted:What I cannot unsee :
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Jun 3, 2015 06:39
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When I see the "old wise man" sprite in FFIV and FFV, all I can picture is George Carlin in a robe.
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Jun 3, 2015 07:34
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/Update%2030/20-019.png)
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Out of curiosity, why does the Fiesta have options for "420 rods errday" and "gently caress rods" setups? Just for fun?
GOTTA STAY FAI fucked around with this message at 12:24 on Jun 3, 2015 |
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Jun 3, 2015 12:21
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GOTTA STAY FAI posted:Out of curiosity, why does the Fiesta have options for "420 rods errday" and "gently caress rods" setups? Just for fun? In my case it's a higher chance of jerk zerks. It's basically a do you want a magic or melee only team challenge.
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Jun 3, 2015 12:29
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Tyty posted:Classic is way more fun than a regular natural because your "bad" jobs are monk, red mage, and thief, !steal/!mug are fantastic, and monks are good damage dealers at least in world 1. If you roll a red mage without a white mage you have a semi-reliable healer and someone good at damage for part of the game. I lucked out last year with my regular natural and got White Mage, Mystic Knight, Ninja, and Dancer. I feel like I couldn't ask for a more balanced team.
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Jun 3, 2015 13:42
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Can't stop reading up on stuff to use for the berserker. With the balance patch Berserkers are much more flexible. Now I'm just looking at my secondary ability options are for a berserker in a no750 run. From the wind crystal I don't see any issues with whatever I get. - The Knight's probably the best of this trio giving two-handed, cover and equip swords. - The Thief's passing on !Mug and Artful Dodger fixing the zerks awful speed. - The Monk's going to pass on all those health buffs, !Focus, counter and barehanded. Fire crystal jobs seem fine too. - Ninja's Dual Wield mean double Death Sickles  - Beastmaster can pass on Equip Whips so I can dump him in the back row with the dragon's whisker. - Rangers give him !Aim and !RapidFire meaning I can Hand him the Chicken Knife and let him go nuts. Earth Jobs I can work with either. - Samurai gives !Mineuchi, Shirahadori and Equip Katanas. - They can use everything from Dragoons and !Jump means I can hand him a Chicken Knife and I sure !Lance will be handy at some point  .I know it'll probably cause severe headaches but i'll take a shot at Shinryu and Omega.
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Jun 3, 2015 14:54
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Maybe this year I will finish my run and not be a shitlord. 
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Jun 3, 2015 15:06
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Bufuman posted:IIRC they were valuable for the longest time in FFXI, primarily because of Refresh, one of the best buffs in the game (restores a bit of MP every few seconds, making it a godsend for casters like White and Black Mage). Since the level required for Refresh was 41, you couldn't use RDM as a sub and keep refresh, because subjobs only get half the level of your current prime job, and the max level was 75 for years and years. Eventually, however, they gave in and upped the level cap to the usual 99, so I'm guessing RDMs are subjob fodder (I wouldn't exactly know, I haven't actually played the game in years, and didn't even get very far; most of my info about high-level play comes from the now-defunct [GM]Dave's blog).
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Jun 3, 2015 15:16
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DACK FAYDEN posted:While I also haven't played since ToAU, I do know they solved this specific problem in the most obvious way possible! It also didn't help Red Mages that the Refresh mechanic started getting spread around a number of other jobs even before the level cap increase. By the time that happened, you had Red Mages (Refresh), Bards (Ballads), Corsairs (Evoker's Roll), and even Summoners (Diabolos' Favor) capable of refreshing MP. Which made the true value of a Red Mage access to Haste, something only Bards could do with similar efficiency. (CORs wouldn't get Blitzer's Roll until much later, and while Summoners had access to Hastega it'd require switching to Garuda and reset the potency of D's Favor. Barring a White Mage covering Haste duties, because we all know they never did.)
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Jun 3, 2015 15:46
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NBHS posted:It also didn't help Red Mages that the Refresh mechanic started getting spread around a number of other jobs even before the level cap increase. By the time that happened, you had Red Mages (Refresh), Bards (Ballads), Corsairs (Evoker's Roll), and even Summoners (Diabolos' Favor) capable of refreshing MP. Which made the true value of a Red Mage access to Haste, something only Bards could do with similar efficiency. (CORs wouldn't get Blitzer's Roll until much later, and while Summoners had access to Hastega it'd require switching to Garuda and reset the potency of D's Favor. Barring a White Mage covering Haste duties, because we all know they never did.) For a long time Garuda was one of the only two go to summons anyways because predator's claws was the best physical blood pact available to summoners at level 75. Also hastega gave you more utility to groups that werent just mages so more often than not groups wanted you using garuda in the first case. From my understanding now red mages are generally considered low tier. Refresh is pretty widely available and refresh 2 is nowhere near as required as refresh was. I think geomancers have pretty much replaced redmage as the utility class.
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Jun 3, 2015 16:16
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Blast from the waaaaaay past of page 6 but I'm late to the thread and while I tried to catch up on it all I got bogged down in some of the "so is X class awesome or trash":Dragonatrix posted:
Oh hey that was actually by a friend of mine last year! (Looking back, looks like he had... Knight/Berserker/Geomancer/Samurai, on a normal run.) Registered for Chaos myself this year, no Risk though. Did normal last year and finished (the first time I finished FF5 at all! I always got bogged down in the past trying to obsessively master everything.) Random last year, rolled a strong party but burned out on just life in general that summer so I trailed off during world 3.
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Jun 3, 2015 23:37
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ArashiKurobara posted:Oh hey that was actually by a friend of mine last year! Inform your friend that they're  and that their art has basically become emblematic of !Gaia and Geomancers in general. 
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Jun 4, 2015 00:54
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Mega64 posted:Then just to spite you, It took way too much effort*, but I'm finally ready for when the Fiesta begins:  *Everyone's names in the script are stored in the script itself, not as a pointer to a single instance of the name, so I had to find/replace Lenna/Galuf/Faris with Fartz, and then I find/replaced Cara with Frtz (because literally everything would break if I tried to expand her name). Of course, that's only the script. It turns out your party's names for the menu and I presume battles are stored in the SRM, so that had to be edited. Except the SRM has a checksum protection, and rather than try to edit that after editing the names, I found out how to tell Final Fantasy V how to skip that check. All this, and I have no idea if I went and made the Sandworm cast Flare on everything or some crap like that yet because I blindly find/replaced bytes in the ROM. Exciting times!
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Jun 4, 2015 04:41
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I HEREBY PLEDGE $1 PER GOON WHO POSTS A NEO DEATHSHOT WITH THE NAME "Fartz"
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You are a hero.
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Jun 4, 2015 04:51
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Trasson posted:It took way too much effort*, but I'm finally ready for when the Fiesta begins: You didn't put a different punctuation mark after each Fartz. 0/10
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Jun 4, 2015 05:16
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Augus posted:You didn't put a different punctuation mark after each Fartz. 0/10 I couldn't, actually. For the same reason Cara can't even get to "Fartz": I'd cause instances of their names to run over into other text, at best, over control codes in a worse case, or expand out sections of memory so pointers stopped meaning everything and everything crashes. I actually had it all planned out. Bartz would be "Fartz", Lenna would be "Fartz.", Galuf would be "Fartz:", Faris would be "Fartz;", and Cara would be "Fartz"". Then I realized the problem and abandoned that plan. Which is a shame, because the prefix symbols are also text items, so I could have had "[White]Fartz", "[Black]Fartz", "[Time]Fartz", "[Sword]Fartz", and "[Song]Fartz". Unless I got Berserkers, then they'd become "[Axe]Fartz". Oh well.
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Jun 4, 2015 05:24
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For that much work, I feel like a win should be worth four dollars instead of one.
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Jun 4, 2015 05:31
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I know that Natural runs are unfun and bad and should be avoided but I can't help but think that Classic might be fun...
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Jun 4, 2015 06:07
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Twelve by Pies posted:I know that Natural runs are unfun and bad and should be avoided but I can't help but think that Classic might be fun... You think that, and then you end up with Monk/Monk/Thief/Red Mage.
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Jun 4, 2015 06:17
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Kyrosiris posted:You think that, and then you end up with Monk/Monk/Thief/Red Mage. I actually got Monk/Monk/Monk/Red Mage for my only Classic run. Which is WHY it was my only Classic run. It was also the only one I actually needed to grind in to beat (darn level-dependent Monk punches).
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Jun 4, 2015 07:11
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yesssssssssss
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Jun 4, 2015 09:37
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Despite the fact that the whole 'Fartz' thing is poking fun at my dislike for silly names for my characters I still enjoy it when the rest of you do it. Also, I enjoy the humor in the Android version of V. Whip - description "Best used when problems come along" So trying to come up with an interesting party comp. Tell me how awful this will be : Mystic Knight w/ 2handed - Butz Ninja w/ I dunno yet - Faris Time Mage w/ White Magic - Lenna Summoner w/ Black Magic - Galuf/other chick Kinda standard, I was thinking possibly making Lenna a dancer or Bard w/ white magic but I don't know much about those classes. I'm basing my judgement on the classes' usefulness by their FF2/4j counterparts. I dunno. What's fun? Also what's an amusing pairing with Ninja? khy fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Jun 4, 2015 |
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Jun 4, 2015 15:17
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khy posted:Despite the fact that the whole 'Fartz' thing is poking fun at my dislike for silly names for my characters I still enjoy it when the rest of you do it. I can't believe you don't like Fartz. Everybody loves Fartz.
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Jun 4, 2015 15:47
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