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FCKGW posted:It's not like the iMacs have a trash screen. You can even still do dual monitors, I really see no value in a midrange Mac sans monitor. Why so angry...? I already have a calibrated 27" ultrasharp. I don't have room for, or need for that matter, a dual 27" setup. Whenever I do get a new display, it will be a 34" 21:9 ultrawide. I don't need Mac Pro power, but I do a little bit more than a maxed out mini (e.g. discrete graphics and a quad core). If you can't see why someone would want something between a Mini and a Pro w/o a monitor, then I don't know what else to say.
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Jun 8, 2015 02:24
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ShadeofBlue posted:I'm curious, how long do people in this thread tend to keep their computers before upgrading? I bought the top-end 27" iMac in January 2013, I'll wait until the end of next year at the earliest before I upgrade, probably to the 5K iMac.
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Jun 8, 2015 02:35
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Splinter posted:Why so angry...?
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Jun 8, 2015 02:52
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Whirlwind Jones posted:Wait what? What was angry about that post you quoted? I'm honestly curious. It's the tone, particularly the end of it. That users posts later in the thread are much worse, though.
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Jun 8, 2015 02:53
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I touched a MacBook in the store and the touchpad seemed really annoying. What does it actually do that I would want in a trackpad?
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Jun 8, 2015 02:55
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enMTW posted:you may want to avoid the dedicated GPU model for longevity's sake this makes zero sense
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Jun 8, 2015 03:09
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Pivo posted:this makes zero sense Let me explain: dedicated GPUs generate extra heat and, in MacBooks at least, die a lot. Apple has a long history of recalling laptops with dGPUs. Having a dedicated GPU does extend the useful life of a laptop (if the GPU survives, anyway) but it is more likely that it will wind up killing the logic board long before you actually need the GPU. If you actually need a GPU for what you are doing, opt for it, but note that there's been drat near exactly as many recalls for defective MacBook GPUs as there have been MacBooks with dedicated GPUs. There is also a battery life hit, which matters if you're going to use a laptop with an internal battery for many years - I don't know off hand what Apple charges to replace that battery, but it is expensive. Knocking a good hour out of every battery life cycle adds up quickly in the form of additional charge cycles. enMTW fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Jun 8, 2015 |
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Jun 8, 2015 03:13
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enMTW posted:Let me explain: dedicated GPUs generate extra heat and, in MacBooks at least, die a lot. Apple has a long history of recalling laptops with dGPUs. The dGPU is off most of the time. They've had... two recalls, that I can recall. Before onboard video, *all* GPUs were dGPUs. So, no. enMTW posted:There is also a battery life hit Have you ever actually used any of these machines?
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Jun 8, 2015 03:17
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Pivo posted:The dGPU is off most of the time. They've had... two recalls, that I can recall. Before onboard video, *all* GPUs were dGPUs. That's just not how it works. The OS does switch between the GPUs but the card is 'on', using power, the entire time. The dedicated GPU is activated for very simple tasks - playing video in Quicktime, using Adobe Flash, etc. An app can force that GPU on too - Parallels turns the dGPU on even if you are booting a headless VM. Yes, I know. There are plenty of recalls of those machines too. I think the point I'm trying to make is that if you can avoid a thing that has a good shot of failing, you should. One more part that can die (and take the logic board with it). Pivo posted:Have you ever actually used any of these machines? Yes, I own one. If you go and Google, you can see battery life comparisons between the 15" iGPU-only model and the 15" dGPU model. Guess which one dies sooner. Why are you being so combative with me, anyway? You were fine up until this post. Just be reasonable. Ask me what I think, disagree if you want, don't get nasty.
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Jun 8, 2015 03:20
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enMTW posted:The dedicated GPU is activated for very simple tasks - playing video in Quicktime, using Adobe Flash, etc. https://gfx.io/
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Jun 8, 2015 03:23
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I am aware. I use it, I'm just describing the default OS behavior here. If you don't need a dGPU, buying a dGPU model so you can force the iGPU to always be used feels like a waste to me, and an unnecessary risk - it's still sitting there, generating heat, using power. That's all I was saying.
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Jun 8, 2015 03:24
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enMTW posted:Why are you being so combative with me, anyway? You were fine up until this post. Just be reasonable. Ask me what I think, disagree if you want, don't get nasty. You are the king of condescending remarks so you should really stop playing the victim card.
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Jun 8, 2015 03:26
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I can't find any technical documents anywhere on the Internet suggesting they don't fully power the dGPU down, so I'm going to take your word with a grain of salt. Why keep it idle when you can start it instantly? It makes no sense. All I can see is people claiming both of them consume approximately the same power at idle. And it's not buying the dGPU never to use it, for christ's sake. You're talking about maximizing battery power. I leave it on auto-switching, I turn it off when I'm mobile and want to save battery. edit: Spending over 2 grand on a machine without a dGPU seems absolutely insane to me, so, whatever.
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Jun 8, 2015 03:29
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Pivo posted:I can't find any technical documents anywhere on the Internet suggesting they don't fully power the dGPU down, so I'm going to take your word with a grain of salt. Why keep it idle when you can start it instantly? It makes no sense. All I can see is people claiming both of them consume approximately the same power at idle. I feel as though I'm not reaching you. I'll try this one more time before bowing out of this godforsaken thread forever, since it seems to be impossible to say anything without offending someone enough that they pick a dumb internet fight: If you are proposing that Apple powers down a PCI-E device and powers it back up when needed, that just is not how computers work. It draws power. That's just 'the way it is', but if you force the iGPU to be used via a third party tool (and one that isn't maintained anymore, mind you), it is not a significant amount of power - that is true. I was referring to what a user without that tool would experience, regardless of whether the task they were performing was too intensive for the iGPU to handle (Apple hands off way too much to the dGPU). Right, but what I'm saying is that since mobile dedicated GPUs have an awfully extensive history of failing in MacBooks, I wouldn't buy one if I were buying a machine to use for several years. MacBooks with dedicated GPUs are all but always later recalled for the GPU failing on many, many machines. enMTW fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Jun 8, 2015 |
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Jun 8, 2015 03:35
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PCI-E is designed for native hot-plugging; also you would expect a mobile GPU to be able to go into an ultra-low-power state, even less than idle (since it's not driving any display), without having to disconnect the interface. Mobile (as in phone) CPUs and GPUs can. That is how computers can work and you have no proof that this computer doesn't. You just made poo poo up.
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Jun 8, 2015 03:39
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Oh god the 2 lovely posting bots are stuck in a feedback loop
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Jun 8, 2015 03:42
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Pivo posted:PCI-E is designed for native hot-plugging; also you would expect a mobile GPU to be able to go into an ultra-low-power state, even less than idle (since it's not driving any display), without having to disconnect the interface. That is how computers can work and you have no proof that this computer doesn't. You just made poo poo up. The things you are saying are simply not true. Hotplugging did get added to the spec for Thunderbolt, but there's a big difference between that and.....this is pointless. Instead of explaining to you how you are wrong, I'll show you how to see on your own. Step 1, force the iGPU on. Step 2, go into System Profiler. You'll still see the card listed, alive. If you really want to get down into it you could attempt to map something to the same ID and get a nice ol error, but if you knew anything about PCI-E you wouldn't be making a ridiculous claim like 'dGPUs get fully powered down in Apple's switchable graphics implementation'. How exactly is Apple switching it back on, telling the motherboard to bring it back alive from cold? Why is there no effectively no lag time between switching, in that case? They just put in in a low power state, like every other OEM. There's another thing, where you just straight up admitted you are wrong and talked about the GPU going into sleep: yes. That does happen if you force the iGPU on - disabling the switching entirely with an unsupported third party tool. It still draws more power than zero, but isn't something I am interested in fighting about - who cares? Yes, with a third party tool you can all but remove the dGPU. That doesn't factor in, for me. FCKGW posted:Oh god the 2 lovely posting bots are stuck in a feedback loop Go the gently caress back to YOSPOS and stay there. You don't get to pop in here and snipe at people. enMTW fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Jun 8, 2015 |
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Jun 8, 2015 03:44
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I thought you said you'd stop posting. E: I like to pop in and read about Mac hardware - not loser kid fights.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:13
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IANAD, but I think enMTW may have some brain issues.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:16
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Dr. Video Games 0050 posted:I thought you said you'd stop posting. kloa posted:IANAD, but I think enMTW may have some brain issues. This entire thread is just a queue of people waiting to get banned for varying reasons.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:18
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This is a very strange thread.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:18
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tuyop posted:This is a very strange thread. Yeah......more 'Internet slapfight' than "Mac Hardware megathread'. I think my work is done here forever. I'll spare you all my presence once the mods step in. enMTW fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Jun 8, 2015 |
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Jun 8, 2015 04:18
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Lots of new posts in here must be some news......oh.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:19
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enMTW posted:People like you shouldn't exist. Or, at the very least, not post. enMTW posted:You're saying silly stuff yet again. enMTW posted:If that isn't something you believe then there is no common ground between us so you should bow out now. enMTW posted:I am aware. Don't come back in here and pretend to have something meaningful to say to me after your shameful showing earlier. enMTW posted:Again with the Apple defense league. That is the most stupid post from you people yet. Way to go. I'd report it, but I don't have plat. enMTW posted:You are welcome to disagree with me, but that's not what's happening. I say 'I want thing, here's why I want thing' and I get nothing but 'I agree, I also want thing' and white-knight straight up stupid arguments against thing. enMTW posted:
enMTW posted:Congrats. You now know the term. The good news is that it is basically a very large RAM module. Slots in like one, comes out like one. enMTW posted:All people have to do is be reasonable and not carry water. Disagree, don't attack. Don't defend Apple when there is no cause to do so. I feel like I am not being combative (just stating what I want, almost as an aside even) but there a legion of people who take any criticism of something Apple did as a call to arms. I might have gotten two critical replies that reflected intelligent thought and a fuckload of personal attacks and water carrying. Which is a shame. enMTW posted:Yet again: you are saying untrue things that are also disrespectful. enMTW posted:Is your goal to get probated yet again or something? Stop coming in here to attack me. All I'm doing is saying what I think - I can't understand the mindset where what I say is so objectionable that one would attack me for it. enMTW posted:Do you feel that you contributed anything worthwhile with your reply, either this one or the last one? You are both willing to fight with me (but only over whether or not people buying cheap computers exclusively buy cheap monitors too) and unwilling to engage in actual, meaningful discussion? Some people would call someone who does that a troll, a white-noise poster, someone who is not contributing. enMTW posted:Yeah can we get some mods in here to ban/probate you and Boiled Water & Electric Bugaloo? Enough is enough. enMTW posted:Then don't respond to them. Duh? Why is this so hard for you people? enMTW posted:It's the tone, particularly the end of it. That users posts later in the thread are much worse, though. enMTW posted:Why are you being so combative with me, anyway? You were fine up until this post. Just be reasonable. Ask me what I think, disagree if you want, don't get nasty. enMTW posted:I feel as though I'm not reaching you. I'll try this one more time before bowing out of this godforsaken thread forever, since it seems to be impossible to say anything without offending someone enough that they pick a dumb internet fight enMTW posted:The things you are saying are simply not true. Hotplugging did get added to the spec for Thunderbolt, but there's a big difference between that and.....this is pointless. enMTW posted:This entire thread is just a queue of people waiting to get banned for varying reasons. enMTW posted:Yeah......more 'Internet slapfight' than "Mac Hardware megathread'. The past 30 hours for the least self-aware mac owner. Woe on the least self-aware mac owner.
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Jun 8, 2015 05:07
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I think the core problem here is that I am much smarter than you and you are unable to do simple tasks like read a loving post and interpret it
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That was a very bad post. But hey good news, someone posted a WWDC thread: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3724606
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Jun 8, 2015 06:38
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japtor posted:That was a very bad post. I'm sorry.  Had fun making it, tho.
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Jun 8, 2015 07:53
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PaganGoatPants posted:Lots of new posts in here must be some news......oh.
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Jun 8, 2015 08:01
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Electric Bugaloo posted:Ok, most importantly: what color did you get and how much do you like it? Space Grey obviously. It's the tits. tuyop posted:I touched a MacBook in the store and the touchpad seemed really annoying. What does it actually do that I would want in a trackpad? How did it feel "annoying" to you? (Not trying to pick an argument, genuinely curious) The whole point of the new trackpad is that it's meant to feel like the old one while using less space. I really don't get the people who want a laptop because of this because it's essentially a non-feature, but I can't see it as a negative either. Having said that, I really don't like force touch and never use it. It seems like it's adding an extra context click to items with no visible hint that it's possible. For the cases that I do know about (dictionary lookup, Safari link preview, quicklook) it always seems quicker to use the old shortcuts (3 finger tap or hit space bar) than to wait for force touch to "engage". I actually just remembered another cool feature of the trackpad that I've only seen mentioned once and never marketed by Apple: it can give haptic feedback mid-drag. The only place I've found it is in Xcode's UI editor, but basically if you're dragging a control and hit one of the guide lines, the trackpad clicks back at you. Feels like your finger's fallen into a gutter, really neat. When I took my first one in to be replaced even the genius I was chatting to had no idea it was a feature.
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Jun 8, 2015 08:07
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I briefly considered buying enMTW back his title instead of waiting for whoever bought it the last two times to do it first, but then I actually agree with some of his points. Technically, I would like a high spec Apple machine with actual high spec video card(s) inside, and I would like to pair it with one of those Dell Ultrasharp monitors, which to this day isn't listed by its model code on Dell's site, but rather by "The world's only 5K monitor". Alas, I settled for a CPU/GPU/SSD maxed 5K, and will probably just keep using it until something more sensible comes along. I benchmarked the GPU a bit with some games and general comparisons. It is apparently about on par or slightly slower than the R9 270X that I got for Christmas the year before for my then primary PC, which is currently my Windows dev machine. Now I've got a MacBook Pro 11,2 2.2GHz, and I've been spending more of my time using it instead of the desktop. I love gravitating towards shiny new things. The MacBook Pro is fully capable of running some things I throw at it, like for instance, GZDoom runs Brutal Doom at a super high frame rate, but the game is nigh unplayable without a dedicated mouse. It can also run the "accuracy" profile of the higan snes emulator, and run the Yoshi's Island title screen loop at a full 65fps when unregulated, so it's quite speedy. It also compiles my audio player project in about a minute, compared with about 40 seconds for my desktop. I doesn't run super powerful games, but I find myself playing those less and less lately. If they do come up with something powerful, yet affordable, and without a screen tied to it, I sure hope it's somewhat more affordable. I don't think my current income will quite be enough to spend nearly five grand on a computer again any time soon. Oh yeah, I remembered something else. I briefly owned a Mac Pro with D500s before I returned it out of buyer's remorse (purchased it refurbished just before the 5K was announced) and boy, did the age of the GPUs show, as even when I attempted to run them in SLI from Boot Camp, they didn't really push much higher frame rates than the R9 270X I was switching from.
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Jun 8, 2015 08:26
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Froist posted:Space Grey obviously. It's the tits. Huh. Can you speak as to the relative rigidity of the pad with force touch turned off? I remember noticing that the pad felt sort of disconcertingly "squishy" when I looked at the MacBooks at the fruit stand, regardless of whatever strength I set force touch to. When I turned it off it still felt like the pads themselves had some give, and a close look (relatively speaking, this is at an Apple Store after all) seemed to maybe confirm it. I think there's a decent likelihood that those floor models had just been put through a lot of abuse and aggressive handling -or that it's supposed to do that and those computers were fine- but it still makes me wonder about the pad's relative longevity. Particularly if Apple wants you to press down hard for that secondary click. kode54 posted:I briefly considered buying enMTW back his title instead of waiting for whoever bought it the last two times to do it first, but then I actually agree with some of his points. I don't disagree or necessarily find fault in a lot of what he was saying either. He was just really, weirdly, mean to a bunch of people and then he got aggressive when people called him on it. He's made a lot of valid contributions to the thread, other things not withstanding. It seems like the desktop I'm planning to get within the next few years might be a self-built PC. I'd honestly love a 5K iMac and I don't even think I'd have qualms about offloading it onto the used market in two years or less to replace it with a new model for a slight depreciation hit. If you time/price it right, it's basically as though you're leasing the computer, as I understand it (selling/giving your old computer to someone who'll use it isn't quite as wasteful as simply getting another. I feel like there's some balance there). But it seems like Apple's been on a trend of putting "only ok" GPUs in all of their flagship retina models as of late (or as of yet, in the case of the Mac Pro/iMac) and playing catch-up to the rest of the market. I remember a few years ago when Apple shocked everyone by outfitting the TOTL 27" iMac with what was the most powerful GPU in its class at the time, months before Nvidia made it available to anyone else. And sure- it was still only a mobile GPU and it still only had roughly the performance of a "really quite good" desktop card from the year before, but it felt like real change. It felt like Apple was seriously trying to cover that base and using their clout to get the market leader on board. Not getting what sometimes seem like warehouse deals from the runner-up. It makes it feel a lot less worth it. Which sucks because blah blah OS X and I'd have Sir Jony design my life if I could. trilobite terror fucked around with this message at 09:11 on Jun 8, 2015 |
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Jun 8, 2015 08:34
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Froist posted:I actually just remembered another cool feature of the trackpad that I've only seen mentioned once and never marketed by Apple: it can give haptic feedback mid-drag. The only place I've found it is in Xcode's UI editor, but basically if you're dragging a control and hit one of the guide lines, the trackpad clicks back at you. Feels like your finger's fallen into a gutter, really neat. When I took my first one in to be replaced even the genius I was chatting to had no idea it was a feature.
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Jun 8, 2015 08:43
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enMTW posted:Yeah......more 'Internet slapfight' than "Mac Hardware megathread'. Poor swsp. You probably reported like 15 people in the past few pages.
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Jun 8, 2015 12:00
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On a related note: I finally got to play with one of the new MacBooks, and yikes that keyboard is definitely sketchy. I know there have been plenty of mixed reviews but from my short time with it I certainly wasn't a fan. It's kind of funny/frustrating the lengths Apple/Ives go to in their relentless pursuit of thinness. MY GIRLFRIEND is a writer and a new MacBook would have been perfect for her, but now I'm thinking not so much.
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Jun 8, 2015 12:02
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Whirlwind Jones posted:On a related note: I finally got to play with one of the new MacBooks, and yikes that keyboard is definitely sketchy. I know there have been plenty of mixed reviews but from my short time with it I certainly wasn't a fan. It's kind of funny/frustrating the lengths Apple/Ives go to in their relentless pursuit of thinness. MY GIRLFRIEND is a writer and a new MacBook would have been perfect for her, but now I'm thinking not so much. I don't think it's something you can judge in a short time, you have to take time to get used to it. I probably sound like an apologist, but I honestly think it's an improvement overall - for me it requires less effort to type and feels far more solid than the previous style. The flip side is that because it's easier to press the keys, it's also easier to make typos if you're not careful, so you do have to adjust your style slightly. It also leaks so much less light around the edge of the keys with the backlight on.
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Jun 8, 2015 12:26
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Whirlwind Jones posted:On a related note: I finally got to play with one of the new MacBooks, and yikes that keyboard is definitely sketchy. I know there have been plenty of mixed reviews but from my short time with it I certainly wasn't a fan. It's kind of funny/frustrating the lengths Apple/Ives go to in their relentless pursuit of thinness. MY GIRLFRIEND is a writer and a new MacBook would have been perfect for her, but now I'm thinking not so much. How is it compared to the Microsoft Surface?
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Jun 8, 2015 12:38
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Whirlwind Jones posted:MY GIRLFRIEND is a writer and a new MacBook would have been perfect for her, but now I'm thinking not so much. Your girlfriend won't notice the actuation point on a keyboard because she isn't like us (and that is a good thing).
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Jun 8, 2015 13:38
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They seriously missed a trick not making the new MacBook touch screen.
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Jun 8, 2015 13:49
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Quantum of Phallus posted:They seriously missed a trick not making the new MacBook touch screen. Is OS X prepared tech-wise to do touchscreen support in an Apple way? Just moving touchpad gestures to the screen wouldn't make much sense and the glossy screens they use are fingerprint central if you touch them...
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Jun 8, 2015 13:53
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Pivo posted:Is OS X prepared tech-wise to do touchscreen support in an Apple way? Just moving touchpad gestures to the screen wouldn't make much sense and the glossy screens they use are fingerprint central if you touch them...
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Jun 8, 2015 13:56
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There's a company out there that mods MacBook Pros into touchscreen devices - not sure how well the touch part works but it is designed to be used with a stylus. I don't personally see myself wanting something like that, but it could be useful for a retoucher or digital painter I guess?
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Jun 8, 2015 17:27
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