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They did show though, when Davos was walking out of Stannis's tent you get shots of the army looking miserable
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Jun 8, 2015 03:51
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Dolash posted:Showing a few more scenes of everyone being cold and hungry isn't the turning point for whether this works or not, they'd already had warnings at Castle Black and again on the march that their army wouldn't make it, plus Roose laughing at his odds and Ramsay deciding to make them even worse. It's clearly and cleanly established that Stannis's choice was gamble on a miracle by burning Shireen (as he'd been tempted by Melisandre to burn others for power before) or give up on his ambitions of the throne, which he can't do without possibly dooming the entire world. I get it, but I just don't feel like the justification was set up well in the show. Their camp just didn't seem bad off. At last not enough for him to burn his child. Perhaps when Martin does it in the books, he will be able to delve into the characters thoughts and it will seem more feasible, but it just seemed poorly done here.
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Jun 8, 2015 03:51
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FourLeaf posted:Why not both? Does it not count or something? Man I dunno I hate the magic aspects of the series, does it still count if it's dad overthrown or whatever?!
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Jun 8, 2015 03:51
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Aurubin posted:I am trying to parse out TV!Doran's logic in sending Trystane to King's Landing. Yeah, I can't figure out a single reason why they'd want to put a dusky-skinned, wild-haired 'bad boy with a heart of gold' who looks like a clone of a young Benicio del Toro on a show that's SUPPOSED to cater to nothing but fat neckbeards who can quote the books by heart. And then set him up with the classic innocent storybook 'princess' character. Oh wait, women watch this show too. In significant numbers. Nevermind. 
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Jun 8, 2015 03:51
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FourLeaf posted:Why not both? Does it not count or something? I suppose you could use the logic that Stannis doesn't believe that Theon has king's blood because Stannis is the only true king and his bloodline is the only one with king's blood in it.
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Jun 8, 2015 03:52
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^^^^It'd be interesting if it was actually Targ blood ("fire" blood), since the Baratheons have a Targ grandmother, but I think this might be a Varys-style "power is where men believe it" thing.Aurubin posted:I am trying to parse out TV!Doran's logic in sending Trystane to King's Landing. A gambit where Dorne not rising up is dependent on Jamie keeping him alive? Seems a bit harsh, and really doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless they completely dropped Doran secretly supporting There's another episode, I think there's a reasonable chance once Jaime and the others leave he'll have a private meeting with the Sandsnakes and Ellaria where he tells them "Okay this is what's ACTUALLY going to happen" and sends them to King's Landing too to lay the groundwork for Dany. Trystane being on the council is a way for the Martells to make themselves look like allies while preparing to stab the Lannisters in the back. FourLeaf posted:But WHY would book Stannis burn Shireen when he has Theon? Doesn't he explicitly say he's going to sacrifice him? He might not retain him. Theon's still useful politically, maybe he wants to use him and Asha somehow to regain the Iron Islands. Admittedly he'd burn them both before Shireen, but if he sends them off to do something before he hits a predicament like the blizzard Shireen might be his only choice. Regardless, the book doesn't seem very set up for him to burn Shireen, so he probably won't and they'll burn her behind his back.
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Jun 8, 2015 03:52
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Zippy the Bummer posted:I hope Stannis downs an entire skin of wine while stabbing Sansa to death for being the sister of the usurper Robb Stark, then belches loudly. I hope d&d get eaten by a lion
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Jun 8, 2015 03:52
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I was thinking about what swayed ShowStannis to believe Melisandre and her magic. Without Balon dying I wasn't convinced. And she was way wrong about his victory at the Blackwater. On the other hand he did make a shadow baby with her and use it to kill his brother. Maybe Stannis has been an rear end in a top hat all along. I think at this point I'm hoping the White Walkers actually win. Freeze the whole place and be done with it. Also I feel like one dragon would wipe the floor with the White Walkers. Just fly over and burn them all. Unless their giant ice spiders can jump.
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Jun 8, 2015 03:52
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Megasabin posted:I thought the point of this series was to have subtle nuanced characters who fell into a moral grey area. What series have you been watching?
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Jun 8, 2015 03:52
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Next season should just be 30 seconds of the Night King slashing and killing hundreds of randos and main charaters with his ice sword then Drogon swoops in and burns them all in one long extended blast, smash cut to credits
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Jun 8, 2015 03:53
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El Hefe posted:Rename thread to "dolash and darko defend poo poo TV itt" More like 'MY head canon Stannis would not do that ITT'
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Jun 8, 2015 03:53
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Adun posted:Ah yes because seeing some generic dudes in armor looking really hungry/cold/dead in the snow is really a lot more effective than Davos talking about it in making us understand why Stannis would burn his own daughter. ... Yes?
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Jun 8, 2015 03:54
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FourLeaf posted:But WHY would book Stannis burn Shireen when he has Theon? Doesn't he explicitly say he's going to sacrifice him? Asha convinces him to decapitate Theon before a weirwood to gain support from his Northern allies. El Hefe posted:Rename thread to "dolash and darko defend poo poo TV itt" Dolash and Darko... D and D...
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Jun 8, 2015 03:54
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Yeah, I can't figure out a single reason why they'd want to put a dusky-skinned, wild-haired 'bad boy with a heart of gold' who looks like a clone of a young Benicio del Toro on a show that's SUPPOSED to cater to nothing but fat neckbeards who can quote the books by heart. And then set him up with the classic innocent storybook 'princess' character. I guess but I'd like to think that women watch the show because of the interesting plotlines and characters and not because they want to see the pretty princess with the hunky dude who's almost a nothing character. I'm not against hunky dudes in the show, mind you. Oberyn was a hunky dude and he was also a cool and interesting character.
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Jun 8, 2015 03:54
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I'm extremely torn because while I fully agree that burning Shireen was a natural conclusion it's really hard for me to imagine the circumstances in which Stannis actively agrees to such, without a dumb-as-hell explanation such as "Ramsay Bolton infiltrated his camp and left him with no recourse". I can almost guarantee that it'll be far more believable in the books. Oh well.
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Jun 8, 2015 03:54
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DFu4ever posted:More like 'MY head canon Stannis would not do that ITT' More like "this show is poo poo and its writers are morons"
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Jun 8, 2015 03:55
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Stannis should have hosed some random camp follower, then when she conceived, burn her immediately for unborn kingsblood magic. Or does the victim have to be a certain age already
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Jun 8, 2015 03:55
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Again, pretty sure that scroll Davos is carrying has one thing written on it, if Stannis is smart: Maybe, but Jon's going to ignore it because Sansa will somehow manage to get a raven to Castle Black that Rickon is still alive, and Jon will send Davos on his 'find the Walnut King' quest as his last act before Olly goes all stabby.
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Jun 8, 2015 03:56
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I wonder if this at all informs that Jorah will indeed shuffle back into the friend zone in the books. AND WHAT PART DOES PENNY HAVE TO PLAY IN ALL THIS?
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Jun 8, 2015 03:56
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Zippy the Bummer posted:Stannis should have hosed some random camp follower, then when she conceived, burn her immediately for unborn kingsblood magic. SHOW REMINDER: THE FETUSES
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Jun 8, 2015 03:56
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DeadBonesBrook posted:gently caress Stannis, I'm officially rooting for the White Walkers now. this man gets it.
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Jun 8, 2015 03:56
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Doobie Keebler posted:I was thinking about what swayed ShowStannis to believe Melisandre and her magic. Without Balon dying I wasn't convinced. And she was way wrong about his victory at the Blackwater. On the other hand he did make a shadow baby with her and use it to kill his brother. Maybe Stannis has been an rear end in a top hat all along. I think at this point I'm hoping the White Walkers actually win. Freeze the whole place and be done with it.
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Jun 8, 2015 03:56
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FourLeaf posted:But WHY would book Stannis burn Shireen when he has Theon? Doesn't he explicitly say he's going to sacrifice him? Why not both? It's not like they're running out of fire or anything. I mean, you can bitch and moan all you want, but at the end of the day the fat man wanted to burn the little girl and burn she did.
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Jun 8, 2015 03:57
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Doobie Keebler posted:I was thinking about what swayed ShowStannis to believe Melisandre and her magic. Without Balon dying I wasn't convinced. And she was way wrong about his victory at the Blackwater. On the other hand he did make a shadow baby with her and use it to kill his brother. Maybe Stannis has been an rear end in a top hat all along. The Shadow Baby is Kind Of A Big Deal, and while the leech thing was a bit of a bust on the showmakers' parts it's still supposed to persuade him since he had to be stopped by Davos from burning Gendry, plus he lost at the Blackwater because of fire and he didn't bring Mel - that's a pretty strong sign. And of course all the visions in the fire he's seen, which were partly responsible for him sailing North in the first place. But all of that aside, he didn't have to be completely persuaded. It was either burn Shireen or abandon his campaign for the throne for good, and Stannis never gives in. Even if he had to take some ridiculous gamble on a miracle, he'd try it. Edit: El Hefe posted:I hope d&d get eaten by a lion Not that it's new for Something Awful Dot Com, but this is in much worse taste than anything in the episode.
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Jun 8, 2015 03:57
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a cop posted:I'm extremely torn because while I fully agree that burning Shireen was a natural conclusion it's really hard for me to imagine the circumstances in which Stannis actively agrees to such, without a dumb-as-hell explanation such as "Ramsay Bolton infiltrated his camp and left him with no recourse". This is pretty much exactly how I feel.
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Jun 8, 2015 03:58
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dik-dik posted:Why not both? It's not like they're running out of fire or anything. I mean, you can bitch and moan all you want, but at the end of the day the fat man wanted to burn the little girl and burn she did. Nah man. The fat man didn't simply want the girl to burn. He wanted extremely believable motivations behind such, which thus far he has accomplished.
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Jun 8, 2015 03:58
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Mischitary posted:I guess but I'd like to think that women watch the show because of the interesting plotlines and characters and not because they want to see the pretty princess with the hunky dude who's almost a nothing character. Yet the remake of Cinderella, a story pretty much even little girls in SOMALIA know by heart, made $532.2 million, and that doesn't count the gross of all the remakes since the original animated version, or how much the animated version's made since. You can think it, but that kind of story don't never stop makin' chedda.
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Jun 8, 2015 03:58
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Doobie Keebler posted:she was way wrong about his victory at the Blackwater Only kind of, though. He left her behind even though she strongly urged him not to, and she has been holding that over his head ever since, all "look what happens when you don't listen to me."
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Jun 8, 2015 03:58
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Doobie Keebler posted:I was thinking about what swayed ShowStannis to believe Melisandre and her magic. Without Balon dying I wasn't convinced. And she was way wrong about his victory at the Blackwater. On the other hand he did make a shadow baby with her and use it to kill his brother. Maybe Stannis has been an rear end in a top hat all along. I think at this point I'm hoping the White Walkers actually win. Freeze the whole place and be done with it. He went against her at Blackwater - she gave him a whole I TOLD YOU SO speech after.
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Jun 8, 2015 03:58
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It's not like we've never seen this trope before: Father asked by the divine authority to sacrifice only, beloved, child so that favor could be gained Father stoically begins to do so despite protest of child (even lying to placate fears) Father faithfully carries out the sacrifice In the Abraham/Isaac story, God spares Isaac but R'hllor is not so kind. Still, what Stannis did is basically an inversion of this darker story: Judges 11 posted:And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord, and said, “If you will give the Ammonites into my hand, then whatever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return victorious from the Ammonites, shall be the Lord’s, to be offered up by me as a burnt offering.” So Jephthah crossed over to the Ammonites to fight against them; and the Lord gave them into his hand. He inflicted a massive defeat on them from Aroer to the neighborhood of Minnith, twenty towns, and as far as Abel-keramim. So the Ammonites were subdued before the people of Israel. Then Jephthah came to his home at Mizpah; and there was his daughter coming out to meet him with timbrels and with dancing. She was his only child; he had no son or daughter except her. When he saw her, he tore his clothes, and said, “Alas, my daughter! You have brought me very low; you have become the cause of great trouble to me. For I have opened my mouth to the Lord, and I cannot take back my vow.” She said to him, “My father, if you have opened your mouth to the Lord, do to me according to what has gone out of your mouth, now that the Lord has given you vengeance against your enemies, the Ammonites.” And she said to her father, “Let this thing be done for me: Grant me two months, so that I may go and wander on the mountains, and bewail my virginity, my companions and I.” “Go,” he said and sent her away for two months. So she departed, she and her companions, and bewailed her virginity on the mountains. At the end of two months, she returned to her father, who did with her according to the vow he had made.
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Jun 8, 2015 03:59
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wyoak posted:You realize he didn't win at Blackwater right? Haha these guys really have drank the stannis kool aid.
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Jun 8, 2015 03:59
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Zippy the Bummer posted:I hope Stannis downs an entire skin of wine while stabbing Sansa to death for being the sister of the usurper Robb Stark, then belches loudly. This I would understand and it would make sense. If he killed here in the sack of Winterfell, I wouldn't be happy but it would certainly be understandable.
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Jun 8, 2015 03:59
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Mischitary posted:I mean it is heavily foreshadowed in the books that Stannis is liable to do some seriously hosed up poo poo ("he'll break before he bends") , but it did seem a bit too easy. Dunno, maybe I'm just a bit grumpy because even when the show does poo poo that's not in the books I can see it coming from a mile away. Also it's kind of dumb that the one time show Stannis ever really garnered any sympathy was in a scene that only existed to set up him burning his daughter. I mean, we all saw this coming. We just hoped that D&D wouldn't stoop so low as to do the most ham-handed thing possible. It's interesting to hear that Shireen gets burned alive in the books as well. When Winds is released (likely never) we might even see that the show was being a true-to-life adaptation. My gut feeling, however, is telling me that D&D decided to punch it up for maximum shock value. They could have done a better job with the situations surrounding the event, however. The guy who survived Storm's End just left the food unguarded? Ramsay continuing to be a macguffin for bad poo poo happening? Davos knowing full well what poo poo was about to go down and deciding "okay yeah I'll just leave and see what happens."? I feel like, in a better writer's hands, this could have transpired in a way that didn't seem so blatantly villainous. The show has gone from a series of rolling consequences biting people in the rear end to "poo poo just kinda happens."
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Jun 8, 2015 03:59
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Midnight City posted:Oh and the two main character's actors were married and ended up cheating on each other with other actors on the show which led to them looking like they wanted to kill each other half the time. this soudns awesome
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Jun 8, 2015 03:59
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Ague Proof posted:Asha convinces him to decapitate Theon before a weirwood to gain support from his Northern allies. Nope, she begs him to do it like that and then the excerpt ends before we see his response.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:00
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FooF posted:It's not like we've never seen this trope before: God's a hack!
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Jun 8, 2015 04:00
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The poo poo thing about Stannis burning Shireen is that while it does make sense for the scenario he's in, the scenario he's in is stupid and obviously written just to force his hand. He's in deep winter despite leaving the Wall in a timely manner, and the snows which blockade his men are easily overcome by Ramsey and his band of twenty ninja pryomancers. It's not nonsense, but it's unsubtle and blunt - which seems to be the only way W + B know how to write.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:00
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FooF posted:It's not like we've never seen this trope before: Christians say "that was metaphor, it meant that she went to serve at the temple for life." Jews are like, "welp, God is good and evil..deal with it." So it depends on which reading you go by.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:02
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zoux posted:Haha these guys really have drank the stannis kool aid. I've never been pro-Stannis, and I'm still not. I just don't like it when people try to make lovely points backed up by wrong statements.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:02
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Shireen is going to burn in the books but gurm is going to write it in a way that at least makes sense not how these stupid poo poo show writers have done drat they are bad
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Jun 8, 2015 04:04
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