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That was the most aghast I've been at TV since The Shield when Dutch strangled the stray cat.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:19
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This is the second time Stannis' army got their poo poo wrecked by fire and yet they still follow the red bitch thinking she knows what she's doing. These guys are loving idiots. Poor princess Shireen.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:20
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Darko posted:He doesnt think of her as an heir. Yes he do.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:20
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ruddiger posted:This is the second time Stannis' army got their poo poo wrecked by fire and yet they still follow the red bitch thinking she knows what she's doing. These guys are loving idiots. Poor princess Shireen.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:21
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ruddiger posted:This is the second time Stannis' army got their poo poo wrecked by fire and yet they still follow the red bitch thinking she knows what she's doing. These guys are loving idiots. Poor princess Shireen. Maybe Stannis should've sacrificed Shireen when the red lady asked him to then Ramsay wouldn't have gotten a chance to be Ramsey
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Jun 8, 2015 04:22
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wyoak posted:The first time was because Stannis didn't take her Yeah I'm sure that's why it was and she isn't full of poo poo at all
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Jun 8, 2015 04:22
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Dolash posted:Theon is a perennial fuckup and he still managed to take Winterfell with just a handful of men. Jorah's team cut through a small mountain of mooks to take that critical gate in Mereen. Brienne and Catelyn escape Renly's tent from the moment he's murdered despite being the prime suspects. The show and the books are both full of long odds, maybe people are tired of Ramsay's winning streak but if it's any comfort it's probably not going to last much longer. Shirtless, with open wounds freezing shut in the unnatural cold, Ramsay Snow raised his daggers to the pale figure and the undead host before him. "This is turning into a lovely evening.", he said with a wry smirk. The baying of hounds filled the air, and the Night's King retreated back to his boat.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:22
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El Hefe posted:Yeah I'm sure that's why it was and she isn't full of poo poo at all
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Jun 8, 2015 04:23
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She hasn't ever been right either (I mean in the sense her magic didn't kill anyone).
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Jun 8, 2015 04:24
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Stannis stuff aside, the Dany/Dragon scene was terrible. Dudes throwing spears into a dragon instead of Dany what was just sitting there in the open? Jorah and others just standing there while the dragon that is defending them is getting speared repeatedly? The special effects were awful, as well; would've been better to zoom out of something.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:24
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Aurubin posted:Shirtless, with open wounds freezing shut in the unnatural cold, Ramsay Snow raised his daggers to the pale figure and the undead host before him. "This is turning into a lovely evening.", he said with a wry smirk. The baying of hounds filled the air, and the Night's King retreated back to his boat.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:24
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El Hefe posted:Yeah I'm sure that's why it was and she isn't full of poo poo at all The point is that she was able to convince Stannis that his bad luck at the Blackwater was because he didn't bring her. Aurubin posted:Shirtless, with open wounds freezing shut in the unnatural cold, Ramsay Snow raised his daggers to the pale figure and the undead host before him. "This is turning into a lovely evening.", he said with a wry smirk. The baying of hounds filled the air, and the Night's King retreated back to his boat. I'd actually forgotten about that scene. Yeah, that one was pretty cheesy and probably contributes more than a little to the Ramsay-fatigue. Still, I think he's probably reached the end of the line.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:24
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Aurubin posted:Shirtless, with open wounds freezing shut in the unnatural cold, Ramsay Snow raised his daggers to the pale figure and the undead host before him. "This is turning into a lovely evening.", he said with a wry smirk. The baying of hounds filled the air, and the Night's King retreated back to his boat. lol
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Jun 8, 2015 04:24
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Groovelord Neato posted:She hasn't ever been right either (I mean in the sense her magic didn't kill anyone). Shadow Baby did a pretty bang-up job, I'd have a hard time doubting her after that.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:24
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Aurubin posted:Shirtless, with open wounds freezing shut in the unnatural cold, Ramsay Snow raised his daggers to the pale figure and the undead host before him. "This is turning into a lovely evening.", he said with a wry smirk. The baying of hounds filled the air, and the Night's King retreated back to his boat. lol gently caress it Ramsay for king of the seven kingdoms, at least he isn't a loving moron. wyoak posted:She has a pretty solid record so far. I mean she's unlikeable as all hell but she's never been wrong. yeah and Stannis is Azor Ahai
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Jun 8, 2015 04:25
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a cop posted:People are right that it's somewhat believable, and at least they addressed it with the "The guards must have fallen asleep or betrayed us", but still- the fact that a spy was able to get in and set the tent on fire and get out unscathed is pretty loving fantastical and the fact that they kept it offscreen is pretty silly. They could have set it up by just pointing out that the Boltons have their men plus he entire loving North behind them. They can afford to lose people.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:25
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El Hefe posted:yeah and Stannis is Azor Ahai
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Jun 8, 2015 04:26
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Groovelord Neato posted:Yes he do. She is a woman and is a fantasy leper. Hell make another, male, healthy one once he is the known king.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:26
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Dolash posted:Moving an army with siege equipment is harder than moving twenty men familiar with the terrain and hand-picked for a difficult job. Winter's been coming for something like a trillion years, that there's a blizzard now is not completely unreasonable. You're right that it was something of a "perfect storm" set up to give Stannis this desperate choice, but that's not ham-fisted writing - that's just writing. Was what went down in King's Landing with Ned ham-handed, because if Robert had started feeling queasy he'd go home from the hunt early? Or the Twins ham-handed because Robb didn't decide something was off when Grey Wind started barking and sends his men in to check things out? King's Landing was a perfect storm of dumb decisions on Ned's behalf (and Sansa deciding to tattle on her dad). I mean, he was given several outs but he refused to take them because he made it his business to expose those filthy Lannisters. Even he refused to back Renly when given the opportunity (and decided to trust the guy who told him not to trust him.) Again, the Red Wedding was the culmination of Robb's actions. Both beheading Karstark and backing out of his marriage arrangements (and Roose Bolton wanting to make a deal with the Lannisters, but it could be argued he did that because Robb started to lose the war.) Case A was a result of Ned Stark acting on his ideals of honor and mercy while being naive as to what the lannisters would do when cornered, and Case B was Robb acting on his own ideals while failing to see the bigger picture. Stannis in the show, someone who has gone against Melisandre, who survived being starved out for the better part of a year, who just recently established that he would move heaven and earth for his daughter, decides to say "gently caress it" and throw her on the pyre because for some reason he didn't think to protect the food and siege equipment. It's writing in the sense that all writing is writing. The show wants to get from point A to point B so badly that it doesn't care just how schizophrenic the journey there is.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:27
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Darko posted:He doesnt think of her as an heir. You are so full of poo poo. quote:"I am Robert's heir, the rightful king of Westeros. My place is with my men. Yours is in Braavos. Go with the banker, and do as I have bid." Book Stannis is the epitome of Lawful Neutral. Shireen is his heir whether he likes it or not, and he knows it.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:28
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FourLeaf posted:You are so full of poo poo. What Stannis is that again? Looks like you threw a qualifier on there.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:30
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FourLeaf posted:...because she's his daughter and his only heir? So you'd think he'd be trying to avoid burning her as long as possible rather than shrugging like WHAT THE HELL, THROW HER ON PYRE TOO Isn't the whole point of a sacrifice that you give up something that is important to you or at least important to someone? In the show they are starving and trapped by a snow storm and his witch buddy tells him that he has to burn her or the world will literally be destroyed by ice zombies. I don't think you are meant to take what he does as casual, it's something he does as a last resort. I wasn't expecting Stannis to do it, but then again I also wasn't expecting people to take it so incredibly poorly. The TV show has always portrayed characters differently than the books (Renly, for instance) but I don't think people ever got THIS mad about it. FourLeaf posted:You are so full of poo poo. Book Stannis breaks his marital vows to create a demon which he uses to kill his own brother, being both an adulterer and a kinslayer.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:32
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Arrrthritis posted:King's Landing was a perfect storm of dumb decisions on Ned's behalf (and Sansa deciding to tattle on her dad). I mean, he was given several outs but he refused to take them because he made it his business to expose those filthy Lannisters. Even he refused to back Renly when given the opportunity (and decided to trust the guy who told him not to trust him.) Stannis is where he is as the result of his decisions - namely, his decision to continue to pursue the throne in the name of duty. It's what's driven him to not give up, to take risks, to follow visions to the North, and now to fight the Boltons. The decision to burn Shireen is the culmination of this decision when it comes into conflict with his sense of justice and love for his family. Burning Shireen is wrong, he loves Shireen, but given where his decisions have lead him he has to choose between her and his duty, and his chooses duty. He's gone against Melisandre and so far as he knows it's led to disaster. He survived the siege out of duty, not love, and while we've established that he loves his daughter this decision proved that he doesn't love her or anyone more than duty. It's the same situation. Ned and Robb both made decisions according to what they believed, slowly getting them more and more enmeshed in a hopeless situation until it blew up in their face. Either of them would not have burned Shireen, and either of them would fail here.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:33
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Maarek posted:Isn't the whole point of a sacrifice that you give up something that is important to you or at least important to someone? In the show they are starving and trapped by a snow storm and his witch buddy tells him that he has to burn her or the world will literally be destroyed by ice zombies. I don't think you are meant to take what he does as casual, it's something he does as a last resort. He has yet to give up anyone important to him other than his wife's brother who he has no regard for and who refuses to convert? It just doesn't seem to have a whole lot of justification and happens pretty quickly. It just seems like they should have held onto Gendry if they knew they were going to need a king's kid's blood again? This just feels like the opposite of methodical on the writers' part.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:35
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Arrrthritis posted:King's Landing was a perfect storm of dumb decisions on Ned's behalf (and Sansa deciding to tattle on her dad). I mean, he was given several outs but he refused to take them because he made it his business to expose those filthy Lannisters. Even he refused to back Renly when given the opportunity (and decided to trust the guy who told him not to trust him.) Yup GRRM probably gave these guys a list with very broad plot points like: *Shireen gets burned by Mel But nothing else, since he has books to sell after all, but with the show writers being so awful at their job they could only come up with the poo poo we saw tonight.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:36
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tadashi posted:He has yet to give up anyone important to him other than his wife's brother who he has no regard for and who refuses to convert? It just doesn't seem to have a whole lot of justification and happens pretty quickly. It just seems like they should have held onto Gendry if they knew they were going to need a king's kid's blood again? This just feels like the opposite of methodical on the writers' part. The first time he gave up his vows and gave some of his 'life force' or whatever fantasy bullshit. The second time he was asked to give up his dead brother's innocent son and Davos prevented him from doing so by committing treason and almost being executed himself. The last time he gave up his daughter who he cared about.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:38
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El Hefe posted:Yup Now I kinda hope GRRM will have Stannis burn Shireen on a pile of her favorite books in TWOW.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:39
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tadashi posted:He has yet to give up anyone important to him other than his wife's brother who he has no regard for and who refuses to convert? It just doesn't seem to have a whole lot of justification and happens pretty quickly. It just seems like they should have held onto Gendry if they knew they were going to need a king's kid's blood again? This just feels like the opposite of methodical on the writers' part. They didn't give up Gendry willingly, Davos released him - because Stannis was about to come around to the idea of burning him, because Melisandre was convincing him with the leech illusion that the power was real. Although looking back if Mance actually counted as a King for blood purposes, yeah, they should've held on to him. Edit - biggest twist of the season is still Bronn surviving. Bet he has run-ins with the Sand Snakes when they go to King's Landing.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:39
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tadashi posted:He has yet to give up anyone important to him other than his wife's brother who he has no regard for and who refuses to convert? It just doesn't seem to have a whole lot of justification and happens pretty quickly. It just seems like they should have held onto Gendry if they knew they were going to need a king's kid's blood again? This just feels like the opposite of methodical on the writers' part. Yeah, it just wasn't developed enough in the show. I agree that it seems like a good development for his character but in the show I just don't feel like he was there yet at all.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:39
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El Hefe posted:Yup Absolutely. It could be planned or have been planned at one point in the books and GRRM has hundreds of pages to set it up. They actually had time to set it up on the show but it felt like it came out of left field for a character like Stannis who is pretty lawful. He just committed filicide with no justification other than "I don't have any other ideas". He killed his brother because his brother was a usurper so it was justified in a sense. He killed his brother-in-law because he also refused an order from the rightful king.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:40
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Maarek posted:
Yeah his own brother who was going to war against him and no doubt was going to kill him as well if that's what it took Or do you think Renly was going to pardon him and let him move back to Dragonstone after defeating him?
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Jun 8, 2015 04:41
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tadashi posted:Absolutely. It could be planned or have been planned at one point in the books and GRRM has hundreds of pages to set it up. They actually had time to set it up on the show but it felt like it came out of left field for a character like Stannis who is pretty lawful. He just committed filicide with no justification other than "I don't have any other ideas". He killed his brother because his brother was a usurper so it was justified in a sense. He killed his brother-in-law because he also refused an order from the rightful king. That's not "no justification", Melisandre convinced him it'd work and has basically been building up to this since she was introduced and it was to save the army from a blizzard they had no way of getting through which would otherwise end Stannis's campaign for the throne. And when he killed Renly he still felt guilty about it when he lost at the Blackwater, because it turned out killing him was all for naught. Which is important, because when it turns out Stannis won't be king after all he'll look back on sacrificing Shireen for it and lose his goddamn mind.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:42
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Darko posted:What Stannis is that again? Looks like you threw a qualifier on there. Even in the show the dude punctuated an entire story about how much he loves and values her by placing emphasis on her title, its as important as their relation and shows how Stannis doesn't simply value her as his daughter but a key part of his court. "You do not belong across the world with the stone men, you are Princess Shireen of the house Baratheon, and you are my daughter" Also the characters are different sure, but they are still way more similar than different and its tiresome to watch you deflect criticism of the show with "they are different characters" specially when you ignore stuff in the show. How like you pretend little finger isn't into Cat or Sansa at all despite multiple creepy scenes, a kiss, and how he risks his entire power structure in the Eyrie to protect her from an insane Lysa. Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Jun 8, 2015 |
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Jun 8, 2015 04:42
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Darko posted:What Stannis is that again? Looks like you threw a qualifier on there. THE ORIGINAL QUOTE WAS TALKING ABOUT BOOK STANNIS. FourLeaf posted:But WHY would book Stannis burn Shireen when he has Theon? Doesn't he explicitly say he's going to sacrifice him? dik-dik posted:Why not both? It's not like they're running out of fire or anything. I mean, you can bitch and moan all you want, but at the end of the day the fat man wanted to burn the little girl and burn she did. FourLeaf posted:...because she's his daughter and his only heir? So you'd think he'd be trying to avoid burning her as long as possible rather than shrugging like WHAT THE HELL, THROW HER ON PYRE TOO Darko posted:He doesnt think of her as an heir. It's seems clear to me that whatever they're doing with show Stannis, book Stannis does consider Shireen his heir and fully expects his men to fight for her right to the throne if he dies. Read my actual post before you respond with your kneejerk defense.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:43
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Ciprian Maricon posted:Even in the show the dude punctuated an entire story about how much he loves and values her by placing emphasis on her title, its as important as their relation and shows how Stannis doesn't simply value her as his daughter but a key part of his court. My biggest problem is Ramsey being a macguffin to kick the whole thing off. Would have been better if his army just got stuck in an intense blizzard for an episode and a half.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:44
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El Hefe posted:Yeah his own brother who was going to war against him and no doubt was going to kill him as well if that's what it took The person described Stannis as 'Lawful Neutral' which I assume means that he rigidly follows The Rules no matter what the cost. In the show Stannis is an adulterer who uses black magic to assassinate his own brother to take the throne. That doesn't seem very lawful to me.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:45
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lol next season is ending on Jon Snow being stabbed to "death" and Ayra going blind. Also I guess that Vanity Fair piece was wrong.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:45
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tadashi posted:Absolutely. It could be planned or have been planned at one point in the books and GRRM has hundreds of pages to set it up. They actually had time to set it up on the show but it felt like it came out of left field for a character like Stannis who is pretty lawful. He just committed filicide with no justification other than "I don't have any other ideas". He killed his brother because his brother was a usurper so it was justified in a sense. He killed his brother-in-law because he also refused an order from the rightful king. Stannis believes Mel's blood magic to work. If in his mind this is his only way to continue on towards claiming the Iron Throne then how is this any different from killing Renly?
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Jun 8, 2015 04:45
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FourLeaf posted:THE ORIGINAL QUOTE WAS TALKING ABOUT BOOK STANNIS. It's harder to note non nested threads of discussion without unique avatars that differentiate who is talking about what. My bad.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:45
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Scrree posted:The poo poo thing about Stannis burning Shireen is that while it does make sense for the scenario he's in, the scenario he's in is stupid and obviously written just to force his hand. He's in deep winter despite leaving the Wall in a timely manner, and the snows which blockade his men are easily overcome by Ramsey and his band of twenty ninja pryomancers. There was also no reason to bring Shireen in the first place except to kill her.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:46
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