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Obdicut posted:Yes, they were. That doesn't equate to 'economic inequality' caused racism. Slavery was not 'economic inequality'. And American society would not have tolerated white slaves in the same way they tolerated black slaves. Well, this was close: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_Americans Slavery ended and Southerners saw the commodity of slavery being taken away from them. It doesn't make their reaction right, but they were bitter about it. The government took the white man's way of life and hosed with it. And Conservatives are still bitching about it over 100 years later. Try banning Christianity and guns, and you'd see the same reaction. And then you had the blacks, who went from literal slavery to having to co-exist with their former masters within society. The transition did not go well. That is an economic issue 100%. Were the blacks afforded the same jobs as whites? Were they afforded the same pay as whites? Did they have the same opportunities as whites? The answer was no. The answer is still no. So let's change that - ok?
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Jun 8, 2015 02:46
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Down-southing, offshoring, and the destruction of public schools started as racist policies, then were excused with economic bullshit.
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Jun 8, 2015 02:48
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sharkbomb posted:I watched Perry's announcement speech and was so distracted by the two goons flanking him. That's "Lone Survivor", ex-SEAL Marcus Luttrell (right) and his brother. They regularly campaign with Perry.
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Jun 8, 2015 02:49
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Jesus christ you idiots, Bernie's whole 'gimmick' for decades is income inequality, just because he hasn't expounded upon much policy or ideas yet in his first presidential campaign which is all of two months old doesn't make him a secret racist. It makes him a not very fleshed out candidate which allows for his 'gimmick' to seem as Bernie's silver bullet to every problem ever. Which he may actually think but I don't believe its fair to call it quite yet. Since Bernie's been a Senator for quite a while, it should be easy to look at his statements about race while in office and extrapolate from there.
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Jun 8, 2015 02:50
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You'd drat sure see a backlash against banning Christianity, what with it being one of the most blatantly unconstitutional things imaginable, as well as the by far majority of the country identifying as christian.
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Jun 8, 2015 02:51
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sharkbomb posted:I watched Perry's announcement speech and was so distracted by the two goons flanking him. I feel like I should defend Rick Perry but I just can't summon up the energy for it right now
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Jun 8, 2015 02:51
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EugeneJ posted:Well, this was close: The internment of Japanese Americans was not like the institution of slavery, no. it was racism, and also not because of economic inequality, so good job arguing against yourself. quote:And then you had the blacks, who went from literal slavery to having to co-exist with their former masters within society. The transition did not go well. That is an economic issue 100%. No, not at all. For example, blacks not being allowed to marry whites was not an economic issue. I'm starting to think you're trolling, because this is insanely stupid on your part.
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Jun 8, 2015 02:58
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Did they just equate the civil war to banning Christendom? I don''t think explaining Reconstruction to Debs here would help, but I'mma give a try. The Civil War ended. Democracy had triumphed over barbarian Planters. Freedmen were the majority in many slave-owning states. There were black congressmen. The Bureau of Freedmen was amazed at how many children in BoF orphanages were either adopted by friends or found by relatives. BoF teachers were surprised that a people that had been denied literacy under pain of death would take to the written word. BoF bureaucrats were surprised at the political enthusiasm of a group that had been held in bondage. Whites reevaluated their opinion of black folk, realizing that they could uplift themselves, thank you very much. Then an army of masked cowards arose and decided to reinstate the Planter dictatorship once more, with help from Northern business interests. Horse-trading traitor, Rutherford B. Hayes damned the Republican Party by selling out to Alabama's rogue electors. The troops he pulled out paraded past burned churches, lynched men, and crying widows. Many of them felt betrayed and angry. Samuel J. Tilden, who had won the popular vote as a "barn-burning" New York Democrat, both nationwide, and in Alabama tried to appeal in vain. Rutherford B. Hayes entered office on the premise that the election wasn't done until the Alabama electors had cast their votes. He negotiated for months with them. Then, the first black congressmen were sent home, as was Samuel Tilden. Black people reacted incredibly well to the end of their captivity. Whites did not.  e: VV apparently Tilden was no saint either. That's disappointing. 
Big Hubris fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Jun 8, 2015 |
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Jun 8, 2015 03:15
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ErichZahn posted:
In Hayes' defense, Tilden would have done much worse to the freedmen.
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Jun 8, 2015 03:27
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The X-man cometh posted:In Hayes' defense, Tilden would have done much worse to the freedmen. Yeah, the lesson from the 1876 election isn't "Republicans sold their soul to end Reconstruction" it's that the American public (Northerners especially) were so tired of Reconstruction that they almost gave back the Presidency to the people that tried to leave a decade prior (granted, Tilden was from the North).
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Jun 8, 2015 03:34
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I thought being a barn-burner meant being pro-equaliy. drat. Anything else I missed?
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Jun 8, 2015 03:35
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ErichZahn posted:I thought being a barn-burner meant being pro-equaliy. drat. Anything else I missed? You weren't wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnburners_and_Hunkers quote:The Barnburners were the radical faction. The term barnburner was derived from the idea of someone who would burn down his own barn to get rid of a rat infestation, in this case those who would destroy all banks and corporations, to root out their abuses.[1] And Tilden was a barn-burner, but this doesn't translate into being a civil rights hero, given he was a 19th-century Democrat and (at best) looked the other way as the Democrats carried out massive voter intimidation campaigns against freedmen across the South.
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Jun 8, 2015 03:50
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I can't believe you knuckleheads are still trying to honestly debate someone who used "the blacks" as a normal phrase in his post.
Eschers Basement fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Jun 8, 2015 |
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Jun 8, 2015 05:16
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Don't know about these other schmoes, but I'm arguing past Debs, not with him.
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Jun 8, 2015 08:16
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Eschers Basement posted:I can't believe you knuckleheads are still trying to honestly debate someone who used "the blacks" as a normal phrase in his post. Yeah it's pretty cringe worthy. I'm going to vote for Bernie in the primary and for Hill Dawg in the general but Jesus Christ racism is more than just economic and I don't blame anyone for supporting Hillary over Bernie because she is paying more attention to minority issues. Nuclearmonkee fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Jun 8, 2015 |
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Jun 8, 2015 14:07
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Nuclearmonkee posted:Yeah it's pretty cringe worthy. I'm going to vote for Bernie in the primary and for Hill Dawg in the general but Jesus Christ racism is more than just economic and I don't blame anyone for supporting Hillary over Bernie because she is paying more attention to minority issues. Her political activity (as opposed to her recent campaign rhetoric) has largely been extremely damaging to minorities, though, because they make the symptoms of racism much worse, and even reinforce racist memes. Just as an example, African-American men are far more likely to be jailed than any other group due to racism. Thanks to "tough on crime" bullshit she supported her husband on the legal consequences are far more drastic. This includes the loss of voting rights, which makes her recent speech on the subject a terribly hypocritical pander. Wanna include campaign rhetoric, anyway? Then how about her blatantly racist bullshit in the '08 primaries? That was some awful dogwhistling bullshit then, and it was clearly out of a perceived political "need", so she's already established she's willing to contribute to systemic racism, even by tacit approval of racist politicking. So her recent rhetoric stinks of insincere pandering, at best. So no I can't understand why even 10% of the minority (or ar least African-American) community would support Hillary over Bernie simply because she is currently mouthing the right words.
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Jun 8, 2015 14:39
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Feather posted:Her political activity (as opposed to her recent campaign rhetoric) has largely been extremely damaging to minorities, though, because they make the symptoms of racism much worse, and even reinforce racist memes. Because an unknown white guy who promises to "clean up" is much more threatening than a known quantity, even if they've been bad in the past.
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Jun 8, 2015 14:42
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Feather posted:
Have you tried talking to black people about this? In general, making sweeping statements about 'pandering' to the black community is, again, similar to Republican rhetoric on Democrats in general. You didn't respond to my earlier post, in response to your contention that slavery showed how economic disparity caused racism. Was there anything I said there that you feel was untrue or unclear? I'd be happy to explicate it further.
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Jun 8, 2015 14:45
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Feather posted:Then how about her blatantly racist bullshit in the '08 primaries? Gentle reminder that the whole birther movement was birthed as a whisper campaign by the Hillary camp.
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Jun 8, 2015 15:12
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Perhaps black people can have similar reasons to white people for supporting Hillary over Bernie or vice-versa. Why don't more white people support Bernie?
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Jun 8, 2015 15:14
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Also, voting rights obviously polls quite strongly with minorities, but also polls way down the list of "things people care about". So, it's a targeted strategy that goes after a demographic, but won't actually move people into voting booths.
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Jun 8, 2015 15:17
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The GOP Congress basically kills many liberal red meat ideas/election policy. This hurts Hillary, but makes Sanders appear entirely non-viable.
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Jun 8, 2015 15:27
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computer parts posted:Because an unknown white guy who promises to "clean up" is much more threatening than a known quantity, even if they've been bad in the past. Clean up what? Bernie been dropping racial slurs that you've been holding back from us?
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Jun 8, 2015 15:34
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Hey Eugene, as a 'fellow' Bernie supporter, the best thing you could do to help him at this point is to never ever involve yourself in a conversation about race or talk about "the blacks" again, because you make the rest of us embarrassed to be associated with you, hth This includes in real life
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Jun 8, 2015 15:40
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Clean up what? Bernie been dropping racial slurs that you've been holding back from us? He said that he pledges to "[keep] kids in school and work, and off of street corners".
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Jun 8, 2015 15:42
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Daduzi posted:I've been thinking about who could be VP for the Dems a lot recently (because it's not like there's much else to think about on the Dem side). This led to chatting to a guy from the US consulate about it yesterday, and he dropped a name I hadn't considered but could be an interesting choice: Gary Locke. Any thoughts? quote:China seems pretty happy that former Washington Gov. Gary Locke is no longer the US ambassador to that country. quote:Locke drew the scorn of the news service by going to such places as Tibet. It said he stirred "an evil wind" in such places. He might possibly be a wizard. http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/China-taunts-Ambassador-Gary-Locke-calls-him-5277106.php
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Jun 8, 2015 15:45
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Breittbart Primary! http://www.breitbart.com/primary/ Time to cast our votes for 2016
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Jun 8, 2015 15:50
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Is it wrong that I immediately got why they called him a "banana"? (yellow on the outside, white on the inside)
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Jun 8, 2015 15:50
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TheDisreputableDog posted:Also, voting rights obviously polls quite strongly with minorities, but also polls way down the list of "things people care about". Well, no, of course not. If they could GET to the voting booths, they wouldn't be as concerned about their lack of voting rights now would they?
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Jun 8, 2015 16:01
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Obdicut posted:In general, making sweeping statements about 'pandering' to the black community is, again, similar to Republican rhetoric on Democrats in general. quote:You didn't respond to my earlier post, in response to your contention that slavery showed how economic disparity caused racism. Was there anything I said there that you feel was untrue or unclear? I'd be happy to explicate it further.
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Jun 8, 2015 16:08
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Alter Ego posted:Is it wrong that I immediately got why they called him a "banana"? (yellow on the outside, white on the inside) Have you watched King of the Hill? If so you get a pass.
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Jun 8, 2015 16:12
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so has hillary's campaign imploded yet?
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Jun 8, 2015 16:16
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White people support Hillary over Bernie: ... Black people support Hillary over Bernie: dear GOD what is wrong with these negros
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Jun 8, 2015 16:23
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Alter Ego posted:Is it wrong that I immediately got why they called him a "banana"? (yellow on the outside, white on the inside) It's a fairly common term in the Asian American community from my experience.
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Jun 8, 2015 16:27
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Feather posted:No, it's not similar at all, and it's a bit baffling how you could come to that conclusion. Perhaps you're operating under a different understanding of "rhetoric" or "similar." It's very similar. You are saying you don't understand how black people can support Hilary, even to the tune of 10%--but they do. Republicans say they don't understand how Black people can support the Democrats--but they do. Where is the difference? In both cases ignorance of what the rationale of the black community is is on display. What do you see as the salient difference? quote:
Here is my post: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3680205&pagenumber=428&perpage=40#post446279389 Can you show me where you responded to it? I may have missed it, but I can't find it after looking through the thread again. Or do you consider that post of mine somehow ignoring or dismissing yours, rather than addressing it? It does, in fact, address what you said. Edit: Fixed post #, apologies. Obdicut fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Jun 8, 2015 |
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Jun 8, 2015 16:28
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:Breittbart Primary! Ted Cruz leading at 32% followed by Walker at 28%. Paul in 3rd at 10%. Also Bernie said he was going to win New Hampshire so I went to check the polls and literally no one gives a poo poo about the Dem primary.
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Jun 8, 2015 16:42
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:Breittbart Primary! I voted for Mitt.
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Jun 8, 2015 16:50
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Trump-Carson-Cruz Wanna see those debates
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Jun 8, 2015 16:58
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gently caress You And Diebold posted:Trump-Carson-
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Jun 8, 2015 17:05
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Alter Ego posted:Is it wrong that I immediately got why they called him a "banana"? (yellow on the outside, white on the inside) We call each other "banana" all the time, yeah. I thought it was more of an ABC thing than something a born-and-raised mainlander would say, though.
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Jun 8, 2015 17:08
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