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Sex, sex, sex. You'd all be better contemplating the most holy body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. O God, who in this wonderful Sacrament have left us a memorial of your Passion, grant us, we pray, so to revere the sacred mysteries of your Body and Blood that we may always experience in ourselves the fruits of your redemption. Who live and reign with God the Father in the unity of the Holy Spirit, on God, for ever and ever.
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Jun 7, 2015 18:23
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Cavaradossi posted:Sex, sex, sex. You'd all be better contemplating the most holy body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. .....Kyrie's thread is that a way.
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Jun 7, 2015 19:20
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CommieGIR posted:.....Kyrie's thread is that a way. This is Kyrie's thread, genius.
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Jun 7, 2015 22:49
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Who What Now posted:This is Kyrie's thread, genius.  Those painkillers are really screwing with me.
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Jun 7, 2015 23:05
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Cavaradossi posted:Sex, sex, sex. You'd all be better contemplating the most holy body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. I thank you for bringing us back on track, and feel reinvigorated myself after today's Mass, which was the best I've been to in a while. Mostly I want to renew my dedication to upholding Christian charity. I sometimes find myself without much of a "goal" in life, having achieved a sense of satisfaction in my basic lifestyle. Looking for a hobby of some sort, I do this internet evangelizing, but I need to do it properly. It's easy to become snarky. But in general, I can't think of a better "hobby" than pursuing Christian love towards other people. So long as my spirit is in the right place, it's easy to do -- but whenever I seem out of step, I should take as much time alone as necessary to fix myself.
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Jun 7, 2015 23:43
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Lepidoptery?
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Jun 8, 2015 00:05
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s42V8BGBvTk
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Jun 8, 2015 21:19
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rudatron posted:Love others, then learn to love yourself. I think for those who have problems understanding and dealing with life, set "rules" about the way the world works, even if they're totally rear end-backwards, provide relief to people who cannot properly cope with issues in their life. I think we all do that to some extent, especially when we're young (like me) and fill our voids of experience with prejudices and intuitions. The problem with this externalization is that you stop realizing that this externalization was made by you and you begin to treat it as objective truth, and you can't really begin to understand and question who you are as a person because you're attributing these pathological aspects of your personality to some outside deity or ideology, kind of like how some psychopaths might attribute the heinous acts they commit to somebody else or some force beyond their control. Going back to your original statement, I don't know if the way to break this mindset is to look into yourself first ("love yourself") or force yourself to see people in a different light first ('love others"). America Inc. fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Jun 9, 2015 |
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Jun 9, 2015 06:17
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You believed it to be the other way around, but I firmly believe in the ordering I placed it in. In the context of CoC, I don't really mind what order he does it in, so long as he does both. With him, I'm a lot more concerned with his mental health than whatever minor disagreements I may have with him: that can wait until he isn't vulnerable, when he's capable of discussing these kinds of things in a healthy way. For myself: Hegel placed the start of consciousness in the encounter with another person, and I agree with that. The mind in a vacuum cannot be aware. I think ideology, and even love, cannot exist without being externalized in some way. Self-love, as opposed to naked arrogant self-interest, can only occur when you've already universalized love: the act of self-love is then placing you in that context of universal love. The particular love from a universal love is totally different from trying to understand others, when you only care about yourself. But that's high philosophy, what CoC needs is real therapy, which I'm hoping he'll do at some point. I only hope I managed to get through to him. rudatron fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Jun 9, 2015 |
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Jun 9, 2015 08:20
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LookingGodIntheEye posted:This statement's been bouncing around in my head for a while now, and I can't seem to figure out if it's true or not. I know this comment was not addressed to me, but I feel like I sometimes have a similar cynical mindset about people as CoC and kyrie do, except I don't externalize it onto some ghost of the self I call a God, but rather into social darwinism and Nietzschean, might-is-right cut-throat tendencies. Like seeing other people as being only your competitors or enemies in a Hobbesian struggle for power, out to screw you over at the first chance or like this. Holy poo poo that describes me exactly! Does anyone else know a way out without interacting with other people? Generally I shut down and wait it out, but that ain't healthy. On an intellectual level I understand human society is more about cooperation than competition, but in my gut I 'know' that everything I have is taken from someone else. The last thing I'd want is to visit Kyrie's priest or one of the clergy from my hometown and have him tell me God hates everyone too, so it's okay!
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Jun 9, 2015 16:23
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Uhh, sounds like interacting with other people is exactly what you need to do? Like it's obviously naive to believe that nobody is going to screw you, that's only going to lead to you getting hurt. But there's a difference between a realistic assessment of what people are likely to do, and a misanthropic rejection of other human beings as invalid or not your concern ie- you don't have to believe that might-is-right to be cut-throat (universal belief vs. strategy). Just because other people are often placed in situations where they're forced to compete and struggle against each other, doesn't mean that has to, or should, be the way people live. Like it seems you're just missing perspective here. Try placing yourself in other's position. Can you still blame them for the choices they made? Do you think they really wanted to make that choice? Etc etc.
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Jun 9, 2015 17:13
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Yeah, the problem is not the majority of people, the problem is psychopaths like There Will Be Blood's main character who have been told by society that their disease of competitiveness and acquisitiveness is noble and improves society. They genuinely believe in the content of the speech he gave to the yokels at the town meeting, that capitalism improves people's lives. Jesus addressed this directly, that there are evil people who love money above all else and that they are the problem. Most people are good.
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Jun 9, 2015 17:40
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An important insight of Christianity is the disconnection between personal morality and our objective moral reality. It may be true that we are generally good, but our very existence within the globalized economy places us in the position of an enslaver.
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Jun 9, 2015 20:23
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Miltank posted:An important insight of Christianity is the disconnection between personal morality and our objective moral reality. It may be true that we are generally good, but our very existence within the globalized economy places us in the position of an enslaver. There's definitely merit to that, but we shouldn't try to lump ourselves in with the rich or consider ourselves even one millionth as culpable for that system as they are. As Jesus understood, capitalists are the problem. We're just unwilling participants in their system of global slavery, which they willfully create by conspiring at dressage competitions.
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Jun 9, 2015 22:15
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SedanChair posted:There's definitely merit to that, but we shouldn't try to lump ourselves in with the rich or consider ourselves even one millionth as culpable for that system as they are. As Jesus understood, capitalists are the problem. We're just unwilling participants in their system of global slavery, which they willfully create by conspiring at dressage competitions.
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Jun 9, 2015 23:43
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Miltank posted:One of the most puzzling questions of modern Christianity is, 'where do people living the western consumerist lifestyle fit into the Kingdom of Heaven? Miltank posted:An important insight of Christianity is the disconnection between personal morality and our objective moral reality. It may be true that we are generally good, but our very existence within the globalized economy places us in the position of an enslaver. Given that the Bible was written surrounded by the conditions of a much worse set of social relations, I'm not sure this keeps many people up at night. Consumerism is, of course, an enemy to traditional religion, so unless the church wants to reformulate like a pyramid scheme cult I imagine it will just be slain by it in the end, or create new fundamentalisms that radically oppose it. Disinterested fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Jun 9, 2015 |
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Jun 9, 2015 23:45
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Miltank posted:One of the most puzzling questions of modern Christianity is, 'where do people living the western consumerist lifestyle fit into the Kingdom of Heaven? Ti and Do gave you the answer.
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Jun 9, 2015 23:53
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Disinterested posted:Given that the Bible was written surrounded by the conditions of a much worse set of social relations, I'm not sure this keeps many people up at night. From the Christian perspective, Consumerism is actually a rival to traditional religion.
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Jun 10, 2015 00:00
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Miltank posted:I don't believe that the law laid down by Christ is tempered by such things. I have no idea what your first sentence is specifically directed at. I don't dispute the second sentence. Rival, enemy, whatever.
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Jun 10, 2015 00:02
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McDowell posted:Ti and Do gave you the answer. He was a false prophet 
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Jun 10, 2015 00:02
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Miltank posted:One of the most puzzling questions of modern Christianity is, 'where do people living the western consumerist lifestyle fit into the Kingdom of Heaven? We can work to consume less stuff, as most of your stuff doesn't make you happy anyway (general, not specific you). You can't help being a global 1%er unless you live on the brink of starvation, and I find feeling guilty about having my basic needs met is counterproductive.
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Jun 10, 2015 00:10
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Miltank posted:He was a false prophet He addresses this in the video. Pointing out that any established dogma will claim an outsider as 'false' In the postmodern world all prophets live in superposition of truth/falsehood - when an individual receives a message they make their determinations based on previous inputs.
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Jun 10, 2015 00:18
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Miltank posted:One of the most puzzling questions of modern Christianity is, 'where do people living the western consumerist lifestyle fit into the Kingdom of Heaven? A friend's pastor once said "there are different parts of heaven, you know. There are people who live in the really nice neighborhood and there are the people who just get to cruise through it in their deuce and a quarter." He was a pretty unlettered sort of country pastor though, and I'm not sure what Bible verse he might have been referring to.
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Jun 10, 2015 00:21
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Miltank posted:One of the most puzzling questions of modern Christianity is, 'where do people living the western consumerist lifestyle fit into the Kingdom of Heaven? McDowell posted:He addresses this in the video. Pointing out that any established dogma will claim an outsider as 'false'
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Jun 10, 2015 04:37
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So I've been thinking about kyrie's anti-trans attack recently, and while that's still really disgusting, I've come to the conclusion that I don't believe gender, or any, identities actually exist. I mean personally, I'm not attached to my gender or body beyond utility and convenience - to me it's just performance. But I suspect no one else is either. Why? That seems unfair, right? The notion of a 'true-self' is very popular - that the real you is something 'deep' down. Self-improvement literature is all about bringing the 'real' you to surface - be the person you were always meant to be! When someone is nervous about a dramatic event coming up, you tell them to be themselves, and act natural. This is the fantasy, yet fantasy of a subtle kind. Modern people cannot sustain a belief in pure fantasy anymore, and rightly so. But the social role a fantasy plays, as a device to actualize a future, to immanentize the eschaton, still needs to be filled. So rather than believe something that you cannot see, you believe in something that you could see, but is hidden, awaiting revelation. In a pragmatic, realist sense, there's no difference between those two structures - both are just as absurd, and both are pure rationalizations to escape the lovely life you currently live. Both are unnecessarily complex. The better solution to filling that role, as far as I'm concerned, is to just embrace the actualization in and of itself, but that's another topic, back to the current one: How can this belief be sustained in the face of the very real convictions people express about their identities? Because these rationalizations are incredibly precious. Without them, you don't have a 'mental face' to distinguish yourself from others. But that itself is probably an illusion.
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Jun 10, 2015 05:03
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SedanChair posted:Most people are good. quote:Data from 3 sites in the ECA study show a 6-month prevalence of antisocial personality disorder of 0.6%-1.3% of those surveyed. The lifetime prevalence of antisocial personality disorder was 2.1%-3.3% of persons at those sites.
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Jun 10, 2015 05:10
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rudatron posted:first paragraph Have you looked into any buddhist philosophy? Central to it is the idea that attachment to a "self" is illusory and that almost all of the suffering of the world arises due to the need to fulfill that self's desires and to fulfill requirements for one's attachment to becoming or unbecoming certain worldly roles (something that seems very relevant to your first paragraph). Then from there it goes onto ways to live with and keep up that understanding to live in ways that are good for both you and for the greater world around you (something necessary bc the material state of things now is influenced by past actions). Obviously I'm not saying to jump into it wholesale, but it seems like you could draw some ideas for your conundrum by sampling some of it, in case you haven't already.
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Jun 10, 2015 05:28
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I think the problem with compassion is that while it's very nice and all it just isn't funny. I suppose the ideal post is one which is ideologically correct but also funny.
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Jun 10, 2015 05:45
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Kyrie eleison posted:I think the problem with compassion is that while it's very nice and all it just isn't funny. I suppose the ideal post is one which is ideologically correct but also funny.
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Jun 10, 2015 05:47
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rudatron posted:In both the post modern and modern world, there are no prophets. The old ones before get grandfathered in, but new ones simply cannot exist in the same way. They'll never escape their status as 'cult leaders'. Mormons??
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Jun 10, 2015 05:57
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Rodatose posted:"Compassionate conservatism" was the funniest joke ever though This post isn't funny. Actually, most posts in this forum aren't funny... what gives??
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Jun 10, 2015 08:43
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rudatron posted:So I've been thinking about kyrie's anti-trans attack recently, and while that's still really disgusting, I've come to the conclusion that I don't believe gender, or any, identities actually exist. I mean personally, I'm not attached to my gender or body beyond utility and convenience - to me it's just performance. But I suspect no one else is either. How are you defining "performance" in this instance? How do you relate to your body, how do you think trans people relate to their bodies, etc. I do agree that from a nontheistic standpoint, "gender" is a uniquely difficult concept to pin down.
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Jun 10, 2015 11:35
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Miltank posted:Mormons?? You spent multiple pages ITT arguing that Mormons were absolutely members of a cult, brah.
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Jun 10, 2015 13:13
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Honestly I'm not attracted to buddhism. A lot of people interpret it in an orientalist 'escape from modernity' kind of way, which I can't respect (and in fact I'd go in the opposite direction), but even that is mistaken - it resolves the problem of suffering by removing subjectivity, I'm universalizing subjectivity. But maybe that's just my ignorance. There's other things I want to read before I get to buddhism texts though.Series DD Funding posted:How are you defining "performance" in this instance? How do you relate to your body, how do you think trans people relate to their bodies, etc. I do agree that from a nontheistic standpoint, "gender" is a uniquely difficult concept to pin down.
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Jun 10, 2015 13:58
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rudatron posted:You can't answer this question until you can explain exactly how the Kingdom of Heaven is structured, which you can't really do without introducing some imperfection. But jumping into the deeper, and more important, metaphor here "Can consumers be saved, in a moral sense?' it depends entirely on where you think consumerism comes from, what it is created by and what it appeals to. These two issues stem from problems with a couple fundamental assumptions in contemporary Christian thought. 1. That God is somehow the extreme technocrat. That all of those lucky enough to go to heaven will have all the time in the world to sit down and ask God how this works and how that works. Why did He do this, and what was the purpose behind that? As if God could/would explain everything in precise detail in a language a human could even fathom to understand. 2. The pedestalization of Jesus. You can make the (in my opinion, rightful) argument that in order to consolidate their own power and prevent any "heretical" modes of thought, the early fathers of the church (especially in the western church), put forth the notion that anyone who presented themselves as someone of equal standing to Jesus as a Son of God would be labeled as blasphemous and could be safely ignored because Status Quo is All.
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Jun 10, 2015 14:02
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Kyrie eleison posted:I think the problem with compassion is that while it's very nice and all it just isn't funny. I suppose the ideal post is one which is ideologically correct but also funny. Compassion can be extremely funny. It can consist of realizing all the ways that a person is a dick, then saying "gently caress it" and doing your best to help them anyway. Compassion carried out with a sense of humor is the fundamental approach of the best people in social services.
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Jun 10, 2015 14:08
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SedanChair posted:Compassion can be extremely funny. It can consist of realizing all the ways that a person is a dick, then saying "gently caress it" and doing your best to help them anyway. Compassion carried out with a sense of humor is the fundamental approach of the best people in social services. Hmm... Not laughing. Sorry.
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Jun 11, 2015 01:23
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Kyrie eleison posted:Hmm... Not laughing. Sorry. Well we know you're not laughing, I imagine only torture videos do that for you.
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Jun 11, 2015 02:36
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Kyrie eleison posted:Hmm... Not laughing. Sorry. Wait, I've heard this rant before, hold on.... George Orwell posted:“How does one man assert his power over another, Winston?“ Copy/replace Church and God for Big Brother and God where appropriate. If I were a betting guy, I'd be willing to bet you don't believe in God at all. The Catholic Church is only a vehicle for the oppression you seek to inflict and suffer from, and unlike Orwell's Big Brother they pretend it's righteous. After all sadism eventually gets boring, but the thirst for righteousness can never be quenched.
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Jun 11, 2015 02:42
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TwoQuestions posted:Wait, I've heard this rant before, hold on.... Right... because the Church is actively trying to dismantle all traditional values.
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Jun 11, 2015 02:53
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