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eeenmachine posted:I think (not positive) the energy required to in the AC and radio are minuscule compared to moving 1,000-2,000 pounds of metal. 3,786 lbs for the 2015 Volt, excluding the driver's weight 
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Jun 12, 2015 15:01
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Michael Scott posted:3,786 lbs for the 2015 Volt, excluding the driver's weight The Volt is a fat pig. It's a pleasant enough pig, though. With the AC cranked to max, at idle in gear, the display shows the car drawing 2-3kw. With the AC on my normal setting (eco/auto and 72-74°F, and 88-90° outside,) it shows <1-1kw. A steady state 55mph cruise with the AC set to the same is generally 8-11kw, 70mph is 18-20. Pushing that thing through the air at speed is a LOT harder than turning the AC compressor.
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Jun 12, 2015 15:30
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Subjunctive posted:I'm in the throbbing core of silicon valley, and I was 3-abreast with 2 other Model S's stopped on 101 the other day. I have seen 4 in a single day while dropping my daughter off at school. It's a plague. Hence the term, "Stanford Camry."
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Jun 12, 2015 20:09
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In L.A. I see Teslas ALL the time. Multiple Models S in a day. I just wonder how so many people can afford them. And I'm also jealous as gently caress. The Model 3 can't get here fast enough. Fortunately for those of us with reasonably short commutes (mine's 26 miles/~1 hour roundtrip) there are more affordable options. I'm looking at the Kia Soul EV, VW e-Golf, and Leaf. Honestly the hardest part about evaluating if an EV is the right choice for me isn't choosing the car itself, it's trying to figure out the incentive structure for my area to determine the true cost after rebates and other incentives. For example, the state of California has a $2500 rebate for buying or leasing an EV ($1500 for a plug-in hybrid), but then the South Coast Air Quality Management District also appears to offer a "rebate" of sorts if you trade in your old car to be retired. The amount I can get seems to be about what I'd able to sell my current car (98 MBZ C280) for third-party, and there's some value in not having to deal with selling the drat thing as well. But it's hard to get detailed information and their website (https://www.replaceyourride.com) sucks monkey nuts, so I'm stuck sifting through mountains of information to try to wrap my head around the whole thing and actually make an informed decision. What the EV market really needs is a thorough and easy-to-navigate resource to help you make a true and accurate comparison among EVs and other options, taking into account all the incentives offered in your particular area.
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Jun 12, 2015 20:49
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I got my annual summary of electricity usage, and it seems that a year of having an EV has upped my kwh total over the previous year by a whole 3%...
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Jun 12, 2015 21:08
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InitialDave posted:I got my annual summary of electricity usage, and it seems that a year of having an EV has upped my kwh total over the previous year by a whole 3%... Don't mean to pry, but would you mind quantifying that a bit more? How many miles and kWh pr year? Chris Walken posted:
Is that 26 miles one way, 1 hour round trip? Or 13 miles one way, 1 hour round trip? It's not very hard to do the average speed math either way, if it was me I would be looking for my commut-O-matic right here: http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/ As for the incentives, I wonder if the used market might be a better bet by now. EVs seem to be depreciating a bit quickly, might be worth checking out the second hand market. Keeping the Merc and getting a year-old VW E-Up! might end up being a good equation.
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Jun 12, 2015 22:10
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Ola posted:Is that 26 miles one way, 1 hour round trip? Or 13 miles one way, 1 hour round trip? It's not very hard to do the average speed math either way, if it was me I would be looking for my commut-O-matic right here: http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/
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Jun 12, 2015 22:23
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Chris Walken posted:It's 26 miles/~1 hour roundtrip. So 13 miles/~30 minutes each way. About half freeway, half streets but varies slightly depending on which route I take. I'm actually looking into a 24 month lease of an EV. Those are words I NEVER thought I'd say, but the Merc is starting to need a lot of expensive repairs and gets 20mpg in the city, and at the new job it bakes in the sun for 8 hours and is 1 million degrees when I get into it to drive home (it's black on black). Ah, right, so the lease is sort of a given. I don't know about the incentives, but I can bring another tempting fact to the table regarding those hot temps. Many EVs (Tesla, Leaf, VW, perhaps more) have apps which lets you turn on A/C remotely.
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Jun 12, 2015 22:47
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Madurai posted:Hence the term, "Stanford Camry." I always thought that was the BMW 3-series!
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Jun 12, 2015 22:51
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Ola posted:Don't mean to pry, but would you mind quantifying that a bit more? How many miles and kWh pr year? I have made use of free-to-use chargers at parking spots and services quite a bit. I guess I just wanted to say that without really attempting to "optimise" anything, owning an electric car made little dent in my average home power usage. Numbers should be accurate, as they had a meter reading off me a little over a week ago.
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Jun 12, 2015 23:16
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I think a lot of people have the same experience given how much free charging is available. I expect that to change towards pay to charge in the future, but not this year or next. But about the consumption, 65 kWh is 3% of 2166 kWh. Is that the annual number you got? It seems low, perhaps the difference is in utilities. I live in a small loft apartment, I don't need to heat that much in winter and I don't use A/C in summer at all - however I do cook and heat water electric, perhaps you use gas. My annual consumption is 6000-something kWh.
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Jun 12, 2015 23:29
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Ola posted:I think a lot of people have the same experience given how much free charging is available. I expect that to change towards pay to charge in the future, but not this year or next. But about the consumption, 65 kWh is 3% of 2166 kWh. Is that the annual number you got? It seems low, perhaps the difference is in utilities. I live in a small loft apartment, I don't need to heat that much in winter and I don't use A/C in summer at all - however I do cook and heat water electric, perhaps you use gas. My annual consumption is 6000-something kWh. I think I am a relatively "light" user model, though. Single guy, no TV, tend to only use one room at a time, things like that.
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Jun 12, 2015 23:38
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Right, that does explain it. I haven't tallied up my power bills over the year but I do think we might be paying around the same, electricity in Norway is cheap compared to nearby countries. The difference is quickly made up in beer prices.
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Jun 12, 2015 23:52
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InitialDave posted:Gas combi boiler and gas hob for cooking, no AC (not really a thing in the UK). Total usage 2500kWh. Heh, I used 1898 kWh in just the month of August in 2013 (the last August I did not have solar to offset this). That's my high month due to A/C in Phoenix, AZ. I have no gas available here, so the house is all electric. I'm currently carrying a 1425kWh on-peak credit into the June billing cycle thanks to the wonders of solar power, but unfortunately if I got an EV it would be charging mostly off-peak, so the solar wouldn't be able to charge it for free unless I got one of Elon Musk's new battery pack things.
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Jun 13, 2015 07:08
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The Locator posted:Heh, I used 1898 kWh in just the month of August in 2013 (the last August I did not have solar to offset this).
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Jun 13, 2015 12:59
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I've only been in my current place for a little over a year, but last May (pre-Leaf) I used 1,293 kWh and this May I used 1,505 kWh. I use home charging almost exclusively and only stop at public chargers if I'm in a pinch and think I'm going to run out of battery. It's not a perfect comparison for a number of reasons (we'd just moved in so I may not have been using a normal amount of power, temperature differences between this year and last, etc) but my power usage hasn't gone up all that much. It works out, roughly, to an extra dollar per day. I can live with that.
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Jun 13, 2015 17:39
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angryrobots posted:That's a big "if". Kind of like how if consumers would either stop requiring peak levels of load, or accept less than perfect system reliability, intermittent sources would already be more useful. I'm saying that if they are really so committed to wind and solar, they could overbuild those energy sources and store the excess electricity as electrochemically generated fuel. If solar energy continues to drop in cost, this may not even be that uneconomical. The fuel could be burnt to supply electricity when the intermittent sources could not provide for it or it could be used for heating or industrial purposes. I think that is what could be attractive about these electrochemically generated fuels, not the idea that they would totally replace extracted fuel from the earth.
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Jun 13, 2015 20:18
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I swapped all my light bulbs for CFLs and that more than offset my 35 mile daily Leaf driving. I don't use public charging much, either. EVs are almost disturbingly efficient.
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Jun 13, 2015 21:11
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At a recent energy producers and distributors conference, the head engineer at Tesla said his expectation was that batteries would be at $100 per kWh or better by 2020. What price do batteries need to be for an EV to be cheaper than an equivalent ICE car? Not counting savings in fuel, etc. My memory from statements by Stephen Chu is that it is about that level or even a bit higher.
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Jun 14, 2015 01:20
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Used a supercharger for the first time today (I drove about 80mi round trip at, uh, not the rated-Wh/mi speeds, and I can't charge at home). A very civilized experience: phone alerted me that it was almost done charging, I finished my coffee, walked over, drove away. Charged at 230mi/hr. In general, if Tesla can bring the same sense of polish to the Model 3, I think they're going to demolish that segment of the market.
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Jun 14, 2015 01:33
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Subjunctive posted:In general, if Tesla can bring the same sense of polish to the Model 3, I think they're going to demolish that segment of the market. Do they have the manufacturing capacity to do that at nummi? Tesla aside, I noticed imievs are now going for 6-8k for 2012s.....kinda tempting
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Jun 14, 2015 01:39
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Beffer posted:At a recent energy producers and distributors conference, the head engineer at Tesla said his expectation was that batteries would be at $100 per kWh or better by 2020. The Leaf's battery would therefore cost about $2500 and the bigger pack Teslas would be $8500 at this price. I don't know offhand the current price other than that Nissan was offering battery replacements for like $5000 with like no markup so it'd be a very significant drop in price.
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Jun 14, 2015 17:42
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IF everything goes to plan I won't be buying a car until earliest ~2020, which is pretty exciting if the predictions that batteries will be at @ $100 / kWh or better by then. If I lived in the countryside with my own garage, the charging would be a piece of cake as you can get up to 32A charging installed. Hopefully by then there are way more chargers in my city. Pretty hard to charge if I have to rely on neighbourhood parking though where you don't have a fixed parking place though. Still, an EV is definately in my sights now.
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Jun 14, 2015 21:38
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MrOnBicycle posted:IF everything goes to plan I won't be buying a car until earliest ~2020, which is pretty exciting if the predictions that batteries will be at @ $100 / kWh or better by then. If I lived in the countryside with my own garage, the charging would be a piece of cake as you can get up to 32A charging installed. Hopefully by then there are way more chargers in my city. Pretty hard to charge if I have to rely on neighbourhood parking though where you don't have a fixed parking place though. Same here, will be keeping the Prius and Forester (yes, I am a stereotype, and I don't even live in the PNW (yet)) while we live in greater Toronto. Once we move out west in a couple of years and get settled in, so probably about 4 years, a used Leaf or Model 3 or some kind of EV, maybe even new, is the way to go. By then I expect there will be a much more mature marketplace. I'd love to go full EV now, but budgets and renting mean I can't really commit to it (although I could charge at work, I wouldn't want to have to rely on it exclusively).
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Jun 20, 2015 19:14
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Las Vegas recently got its first functional CHAdeMO fast charger. It's also the only charger in Vegas that costs money (for now). I got a chance to use it on my Leaf the other day. Holy balls. It's been over 110F all week so I'm running the air at full blast all the time and my mileage is going to poo poo. Being able to recharge a significant amount in 20 minutes is just wonderful.
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Jun 20, 2015 21:02
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Also the DC plug is hilariously large:
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Jun 20, 2015 21:06
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What does that do to the battery temperature?
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Jun 22, 2015 02:24
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Advent Horizon posted:What does that do to the battery temperature? Battery temp was already pretty high on account of it being a hundred and eighteen loving degrees outside, but the DC charge raised it a bit. Not into the red, but the next notch down from there. I honestly wasn't watching the temp gauge because I was too busy watching the battery charge percentage climb.
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Jun 22, 2015 07:43
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eeenmachine posted:This was written recently and thought it would stimulate some discussion... Just got this knocked off my "to read" list, and holy poo poo... I think I have between 0 and 2 ICE cars to buy in my life, at least when we're talking non-enthusiast.
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Jun 22, 2015 12:48
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Yeah I've been feeling the same way and reading that just pretty much solidified it.
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Jun 22, 2015 23:54
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Again though, as statistics shows, home ownership is down among young people, the average car age is up, and for us apartment owners, Tessa's can't be charged overnight. Another issue wrt supercharger is that Tesla said they are for long term travel only, so a pure EV is useless until the daily chargers are at least as common as say pep boys, which I believe is the largest third party mechanics at the moment in the U.S. Hydrogen is even worse for this because at least electricity is generally everywhere civilization is. I have a partial EV, and as I can trickle charge at work, it's awesome to spend 0 USD for gas driving every non weekend, but yeah, EVs are still pie in the sky tech for these fundamental issues.
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Jun 23, 2015 20:31
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In California at least the law is that a tenant must be permitted to install a charger, at their own expense and with a couple of conditions. That should help get infrastructure in more places, at least a bit. I can't currently charge at home, but I can at work and if I take a big day trip I swing by the SC on the way back.
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Jun 23, 2015 21:07
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Ryand-Smith posted:Again though, as statistics shows, home ownership is down among young people, the average car age is up, and for us apartment owners, Tessa's can't be charged overnight. Another issue wrt supercharger is that Tesla said they are for long term travel only, so a pure EV is useless until the daily chargers are at least as common as say pep boys, which I believe is the largest third party mechanics at the moment in the U.S. Hydrogen is even worse for this because at least electricity is generally everywhere civilization is. To be fair, the kinds of young people who are lowering home ownership rates aren't exactly going to be buying Teslas either. Or any new car. They're probably the same young people who are lowering car sales, i.e. poor. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Jun 24, 2015 |
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Jun 24, 2015 01:47
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eeenmachine posted:This was written recently and thought it would stimulate some discussion... I like how the article starts with the basics and then spirals off into utter bullshit
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Jun 24, 2015 02:03
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Mange Mite posted:I like how the article starts with the basics and then spirals off into utter bullshit
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Jun 24, 2015 02:35
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ilkhan posted:You want to defend that statement? Dude doesn't know what he's talking about because his whole thing is he's a massive fanboy. Here's an example:  Big useful-looking graph except it's total bullshit in pretty much every way. First, it's massively oversimplified. And, more importantly, the things it displays, market cap and year founded, aren't actually explained or used in any relevant way beyond saying "wow Tesla is really great because look at these numbers!". Pretty much the whole article is like this. It starts with some publicly available figures and basic facts copied from white papers and wikipedia, and then adds on a bunch of fawning infographics that don't actually know what they're talking about, let alone bring any context or critical appraisal. Whoever he is, this guy really doesn't know what he's talking about. Look at dumb poo poo like this: quote:Myth: EVs are a huge burden on the electric grid. He takes every silly bit of PR puffery Tesla puts out completely at face value, too, sometimes even after it's fallen out of date. Even really simple things like bringing up battery swaps even though they stopped developing them and were never available, or claiming that Teslas can drive themselves when they absolutely cannot right now (though they charge for this anyway) According to this guy, we're perpetually on the brink of a revolution. This is because he uncritically accepts the rather dodgy projected numbers put out in PR releases made to bilk investers out of money. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Jun 24, 2015 |
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Jun 24, 2015 02:51
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EVs will help the grid because they will provide a buffer for the fluctuating load on the mains.
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Jun 24, 2015 12:44
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Mange Mite posted:
I passed this to my partner who does have more than a passing knowledge of the industry in question. She said the article writer is correct on the capacity issue and the rising number of solar at homes. You are seriosuly just throwing out wild BUTBUTBUT and hoping it sticks.
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Jun 24, 2015 13:09
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:I passed this to my partner who does have more than a passing knowledge of the industry in question. She said the article writer is correct on the capacity issue and the rising number of solar at homes. It misses the point because the power grid for the whole country isn't just a single reserve of capacity, actual utilization and infrastructure is way more complicated. None of that is addressed at all. Infrastructure is a massive set of problems eith widespread EV adoption and the approach here is basically just to declare that it's Not even though it actually is. Like not even outline likely future advancements or adaptations but straight look at two Numbers and declre the problem imaginary. It's really weAK as anything but another breathless puff piece, which there's already plenty of. I'm not going to go through the article step by step because I don't have the time, but in general pretty much anyone selling a revolution is full of poo poo. Like, EVs are good and all that but anyone claiming anything close to widespread adoption within the next 5 years is full of it. Even the much hoped-for $200/kWh by 2020 for batteries is, frankly, pretty borderline and likely way too optimistic but then that's the name of the game - build hype, make super optimistic claims, get money. People forget the claims, but you keep the money. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 13:46 on Jun 24, 2015 |
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Jun 24, 2015 13:15
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Solution - All EV owners must live within 5 miles of a nuclear power plant.
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Jun 24, 2015 16:37
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