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It was fine while Donald was handling things, Tony left after Kat went off at him. Which was for the best since it's kind of obvious that Kat couldn't handle being on the same table as him, he probably saved her from digging her hole deeper by letting out even more steam. Also, "I am aware of my absence" is a pretty good indication that, wherever Tony was all this time, he knew what the price for it was (it could also be a post-facto realisation, but I don't think it is).
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Jun 17, 2015 16:37
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I'm not sure how anybody could say nothing is happening. One of the biggest reasons to dislike Anthony is that he's doing things seemingly without caring about Annie's opinion on it. Annie asked Kat not to break into her father's home, Kat blew her off. Annie asked Donnie not to press her father, Donnie did it anyways. Annie feels like she's an idiot, and right now people, not just Anthony, are treating her like her thoughts don't matter.
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Jun 17, 2015 16:45
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YF-23 posted:It was fine while Donald was handling things, Tony left after Kat went off at him. Which was for the best since it's kind of obvious that Kat couldn't handle being on the same table as him, he probably saved her from digging her hole deeper by letting out even more steam. Tony is a fascinating character to me just because we, the reader, are being slowly taught how to read him like Donald can. A lot of what Tony has said, despite it being so little, is laden with meaning. Take, for example, when he wants to smooth over the conversation and get it started, the first words out of his mouth are compliments towards Kat (before being interrupted by Donald). It's quite possible that this was his way of trying to apologize in his own "Tony" way for making Kat believe he doesn't respect her (Which is completely off the mark as to why she's upset at him, but it's what his character is all about : Completely missing social and contextual cues). Another way the "absence" line could be taken is Tony, again in his strange, hard to read way, trying to urge Kat to tell him her own reasons for trusting Renard. This is directly after he flat out stated "I cannot be so quick to assume he is harmless". Tony is a weird, weird dude who just falls apart when dealing with people. I think that line was ALSO him actually asking to be informed. That's the crux of this whole thing. Tony has no context. He KNOWS he has no context. He probably knows Annie's context if he actually asked her, but he wants a second, third and/or fourth opinion from his friends. In Tony's eyes, he sees his daughter trusting a powerful being that he has witnessed kill someone without remorse just to get what he wanted (Surma). But now he sees that Anja, Kat AND Donald all share this same trust of Renard. Tony wants answers just as much as Donald does, but... It's obvious he has no idea how to ask, or is too scared to ask because he's Anthony Carver.
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Jun 17, 2015 16:53
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Great White Hope posted:I'm not sure how anybody could say nothing is happening. This plays back into what she told Kat earlier in the chapter: she thinks that everyone thinks she's stupid. That's not just her being hard on herself. Everyone around her is treating her like she can't make her own decisions. That includes the audience. Just look at all the "he must be mind-controlling her!" speculation.
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Jun 17, 2015 16:53
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Great White Hope posted:I'm not sure how anybody could say nothing is happening.
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Jun 17, 2015 16:57
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 haters gonna hate
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Jun 17, 2015 17:04
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YF-23 posted:Anthony isn't going to do this. Could you explain why you think so? You're the second person that's been rock solid sure about this, and I'm wondering if I've missed something in Tony's characterisation.
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Jun 17, 2015 17:07
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Could you explain why you think so? You're the second person that's been rock solid sure about this, and I'm wondering if I've missed something in Tony's characterisation. At the very least, Tony has never expressed that Kat is a negative influence on her. Also Blackheart posted:
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Jun 17, 2015 17:11
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Could you explain why you think so? You're the second person that's been rock solid sure about this, and I'm wondering if I've missed something in Tony's characterisation. I don't think he'd consider Kat a bad influence even though she went off on him like that, and I don't think he's given any signs he'd interfere in Annie's personal life if it wasn't over something very important like a demigod pet or her studies or a trickster god's forest. Plus, I don't think he'd openly put his own relationship with the Donlans on the crossfire like a move like that would.
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Jun 17, 2015 17:12
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Blackheart posted:
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Jun 17, 2015 17:12
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YF-23 posted:I don't think he'd consider Kat a bad influence even though she went off on him like that, and I don't think he's given any signs he'd interfere in Annie's personal life if it wasn't over something very important like a demigod pet or her studies or a trickster god's forest. Fair enough! I guess I'm expecting him to over-react to their actions at the party, or at the very least see them as threatening the control he has over Annie.
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Jun 17, 2015 17:18
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Could you explain why you think so? You're the second person that's been rock solid sure about this, and I'm wondering if I've missed something in Tony's characterisation.
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Jun 17, 2015 17:21
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:over-react We're talking about Anthony Carver here, right?
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Jun 17, 2015 17:22
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YF-23 posted:I don't think he'd consider Kat a bad influence even though she went off on him like that, and I don't think he's given any signs he'd interfere in Annie's personal life if it wasn't over something very important like a demigod pet or her studies or a trickster god's forest. It'd also be a pretty bad move considering that he's one of Kat's teachers. She would probably become disruptive in his class (sooner or later) if he did that. Edit: I'm assuming he's aware of this.
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Jun 17, 2015 17:27
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Fister Roboto posted:We're talking about Anthony Carver here, right? The guy who forced his daughter to repeat a year and live in a giant white featureless room because she was cheating on her homework, Anthony Carver, yeah.
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Jun 17, 2015 17:33
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Great White Hope posted:I'm not sure how anybody could say nothing is happening.
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Jun 17, 2015 17:34
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:The guy who forced his daughter to repeat a year and live in a giant white featureless room because she was cheating on her homework, Anthony Carver, yeah. No no those are good things because she is a bad student. She deserves this. Thank god for Anthony returning and setting her straight
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Jun 17, 2015 17:38
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I just had a thought, that the reason Anthony wanted control of Renard was so that way he absolutely knew he couldn't lie to him. I got to thinking about how Tony just seems to want context, and the best way to GET context is to ask it straight from the source, from the one who's been closest to Annie in his absence. Anthony doesn't trust Renard, and him not responding to his commands is probably entrenching that distrust. Dude just wants some answers, and it puts more weight to the idea that he was trying to get some from his friends in this scene. He really does want to know why his daughter AND his circle of friends seem to suddenly trust Renard after what happened all those years ago. He's suspicious and just wants a bit of assurance because he trusts Donald, the oldest and closest thing he ever had to a best friend, not to make stupid decisions that would endanger everyone's lives. I can't bring myself to hate Anthony despite how ridiculously and wonderfully hosed every decision he has made up to this point is. Truth is, I can't help but feel a little sorry for the guy.
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Jun 17, 2015 17:46
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Blackheart posted:
There is pretty much no chance this isn't going to end with Reynard jumping into Anthony and being all "welp, don't know what to do now to avoid killing your dad Annie" and Coyote laughing his rear end off as the gang struggle to figure out a solution to this problem.
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Jun 17, 2015 17:55
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I will never agree that what Anthony has done is justified. But at the same time, this, right here, is absolutely true:Fister Roboto posted:This plays back into what she told Kat earlier in the chapter: she thinks that everyone thinks she's stupid. That's not just her being hard on herself. Everyone around her is treating her like she can't make her own decisions.
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Jun 17, 2015 18:25
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Fister Roboto posted:This plays back into what she told Kat earlier in the chapter: she thinks that everyone thinks she's stupid. That's not just her being hard on herself. Everyone around her is treating her like she can't make her own decisions. This is a job for Olympian feats of tact and diplomacy.
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Jun 17, 2015 18:30
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Oh Kat. Forcing Annie to choose between her father and you at this point isn't going to work out the way you think it is. 
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Jun 17, 2015 18:56
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Macaluso posted:No no those are good things because she is a bad student. She deserves this. Thank god for Anthony returning and setting her straight Pretty much? If you're caught cheating on years of school assignments something like repeating a year isn't really out of line.
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Jun 17, 2015 19:32
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BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Dec 1, 2016 |
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Jun 17, 2015 19:35
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BravestOfTheLamps none of what you're saying makes any sense, you're using at least half of those words incorrectly (including "otherkinism" - I have no idea what you even think that means), and are actually making me side with YF-23 in an argument. What the hell man
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Jun 17, 2015 19:54
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Hypocrisy posted:Pretty much? If you're caught cheating on years of school assignments something like repeating a year isn't really out of line. We had this conversation already.
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Jun 17, 2015 19:55
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Pinstripe Hourglass posted:BravestOfTheLamps none of what you're saying makes any sense, you're using at least half of those words incorrectly (including "otherkinism" - I have no idea what you even think that means), and are actually making me side with YF-23 in an argument. Seriously, it's like the most pedantic outlining of fiction versus reality, where apparently comparative analysis of the story against reality is akin (heh) to someone who thinks they're a dragon or connected to an anime character on another plane of existence. What the hell indeed.
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Jun 17, 2015 20:12
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Fister Roboto posted:This plays back into what she told Kat earlier in the chapter: she thinks that everyone thinks she's stupid. That's not just her being hard on herself. Everyone around her is treating her like she can't make her own decisions. Annie is demonstrably not capable of making her own decisions right now because she is the victim in an emotionally abusive relationship, whether or not it is Anthony's intent to be an abuser, and is acting against her own interests to appease her abuser. Both Donald and Kat have raised very valid concerns and Tony's response has been "because reasons" followed by attempting to flee. If I was still in social work I'd say this would be a plain case of straight up taking Annie out of her father's custody and asking him some pointed questions from across a very imposing desk.
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Jun 17, 2015 20:13
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mr. stefan posted:asking him some pointed questions from across a very imposing desk. Anthony is definitely the kind of guy who could turn your own desk against you
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Jun 17, 2015 20:14
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:That is not allegory. In fact you seem to be confused by words like "motif," "history," and "example". Acknowledging that Reynard has a narrative history is not a moral argument, it is a basic step in analysis. We relate to some of the characters for reasons; pretty much the entire human cast here are British people who just happen to be involved in this techno-magic/fantasy conflict. They give us a familiar frame of reference through which we can look into the story. That is there, you can't take it away. Gunnerkrigg Court is still set somewhere in Britain, so even if the Court and the Forest themselves are alien, the context in which they are presented is decidedly not. You are basically saying that analysing any fictional story is something only
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Jun 17, 2015 20:15
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Bongo Bill posted:We had this conversation already. But, what the hell, I'd be cool with having it again if it means relief from the current one.
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Jun 17, 2015 20:18
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I am not British, so all these characters are inscrutable aliens to me.
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Jun 17, 2015 20:20
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I am not British, so all these characters are inscrutable aliens to me. Which is why I mentioned the basics of western society earlier on, but that made me an otherkin apparently.
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Jun 17, 2015 20:22
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BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Dec 1, 2016 |
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Jun 17, 2015 20:27
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mr. stefan posted:Annie is demonstrably not capable of making her own decisions right now because she is the victim in an emotionally abusive relationship, whether or not it is Anthony's intent to be an abuser, and is acting against her own interests to appease her abuser. So if this was a real-life case of abuse, would anything that Annie's friends are doing be helpful to the situation?
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Jun 17, 2015 20:27
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I despise the moral corruption of the West, so all these characters are contemptible wretches to me. Yes, that would actually be true for someone who believed that. Or do you think that for example a theoretical Christian fundamentalist reader wouldn't feel any alienation at the treatment of Kat's relationship with Paz, for example?
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Jun 17, 2015 20:32
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Fister Roboto posted:So if this was a real-life case of abuse, would anything that Annie's friends are doing be helpful to the situation? Attempting to reestablish a social support network with an abuse victim is a generally helpful action, yes.
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Jun 17, 2015 20:37
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Annie never lost her "social support network".
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Jun 17, 2015 20:39
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mr. stefan posted:Annie is demonstrably not capable of making her own decisions right now because she is the victim in an emotionally abusive relationship, whether or not it is Anthony's intent to be an abuser, and is acting against her own interests to appease her abuser. It doesn't matter if Kat's concern is valid or not, just as Anthony's "because reasons" aren't especially important. Kat's blinded by anger, and as such is acting in a way seems to be hurting Annie, and until Annie shrugged her off, she didn't care. She still might not. That's what the "something" that's been going on all chapter is. Now, will Kat respond by getting angrier, or will she realize "Oh crap, my friend is hurting and this time it's my fault"? rare Magic card l00k fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Jun 17, 2015 |
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Jun 17, 2015 20:39
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BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Dec 1, 2016 |
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Jun 17, 2015 20:44
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